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On March 09 2010 08:12 DeA wrote:
IMO bring back Dark Pylons, make it cost more than a Pylon and push warp gate back to Twilight Council.
That way whoever wants to use warp-in has to commit a fair amount of resources and time. Right now even if your enemy sees the pylon and destroys it, you don't really care that much since its only 100 minerals.
On a side note: I thought Z was supposed to be more mobile than toss, how come toss can get this warp tech for only 50/50 + upgrade gates for free + faster unit production + available right after core, and zerg needs to get a lair + nydus canal + nydus worm (like 350/300? cant remember) + hope opponent hasn't covered his entire main with depots/pylons/ovies so you're strategy can work.
Did you actually read the topic?
There is no need to change the mechanics of the warp gates against all other races. If they do that, they'll be creating a lot of other problems - how will that affect PvZ or PvT?
Meanwhile, if we do the Pylon Interference solution, it would only affect PvP leaving everything else unchanged.
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I don't know if this would be a good solution or not, but how about adding a 15 second delay before you can use a pylon's power field to warp units in?
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On March 09 2010 08:21 Camilus wrote:
I don't know if this would be a good solution or not, but how about adding a 15 second delay before you can use a pylon's power field to warp units in?
That would, once again, change the mechanics in PvZ and PvT. That's the problem with nerfing something, you have to make sure it will have the intended consequences.
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On March 09 2010 08:17 squ1d wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 08:12 DeA wrote:
IMO bring back Dark Pylons, make it cost more than a Pylon and push warp gate back to Twilight Council.
That way whoever wants to use warp-in has to commit a fair amount of resources and time. Right now even if your enemy sees the pylon and destroys it, you don't really care that much since its only 100 minerals.
On a side note: I thought Z was supposed to be more mobile than toss, how come toss can get this warp tech for only 50/50 + upgrade gates for free + faster unit production + available right after core, and zerg needs to get a lair + nydus canal + nydus worm (like 350/300? cant remember) + hope opponent hasn't covered his entire main with depots/pylons/ovies so you're strategy can work. Did you actually read the topic? There is no need to change the mechanics of the warp gates against all other races. If they do that, they'll be creating a lot of other problems - how will that affect PvZ or PvT? Meanwhile, if we do the Pylon Interference solution, it would only affect PvP leaving everything else unchanged.
I read the topic and replied as I saw fit. As a side note I mentioned that I just don't see how Protoss can have overwhelming mobility compared to the other races for only 50/50 + the cost of a pylon and at the same time think the game is balanced.
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I dont see a problem at all in making a change that affects other matchups as well. Its not like the current build has the races perfectly balanced for these maps atm anyway.
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On March 09 2010 08:32 DeA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 08:17 squ1d wrote:On March 09 2010 08:12 DeA wrote:
IMO bring back Dark Pylons, make it cost more than a Pylon and push warp gate back to Twilight Council.
That way whoever wants to use warp-in has to commit a fair amount of resources and time. Right now even if your enemy sees the pylon and destroys it, you don't really care that much since its only 100 minerals.
On a side note: I thought Z was supposed to be more mobile than toss, how come toss can get this warp tech for only 50/50 + upgrade gates for free + faster unit production + available right after core, and zerg needs to get a lair + nydus canal + nydus worm (like 350/300? cant remember) + hope opponent hasn't covered his entire main with depots/pylons/ovies so you're strategy can work. Did you actually read the topic? There is no need to change the mechanics of the warp gates against all other races. If they do that, they'll be creating a lot of other problems - how will that affect PvZ or PvT? Meanwhile, if we do the Pylon Interference solution, it would only affect PvP leaving everything else unchanged. I read the topic and replied as I saw fit. As a side note I mentioned that I just don't see how Protoss can have overwhelming mobility compared to the other races for only 50/50 + the cost of a pylon and at the same time think the game is balanced.
So let's remove Nydus Canal as well, because that gives even more mobility.
And the only matchup where this mobility actually makes a difference is in PvP, while in PvT and PvZ nothing can be exploited like that, pylons are used only to warp troops closer to the battle and even then, some people prefer to use warp prisms.
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On March 09 2010 08:22 squ1d wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 08:21 Camilus wrote:
I don't know if this would be a good solution or not, but how about adding a 15 second delay before you can use a pylon's power field to warp units in? That would, once again, change the mechanics in PvZ and PvT. That's the problem with nerfing something, you have to make sure it will have the intended consequences.
Give the Nexus small radius to jam a pylon's warp capability for a small amount time? That wouldn't effect the other match up, but I'm not sure how practical it is.
Perhaps, your pylon solution is the best solution. I think it's a good idea.
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Are you trying to say that Nydus Canal = Warp-in? Cause if you are then you're totally wrong.
I would also have no problem to see Nydus in Hive tech.
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On March 09 2010 08:45 DeA wrote:
Are you trying to say that Nydus Canal = Warp-in? Cause if you are then you're totally wrong.
I would also have no problem to see Nydus in Hive tech.
Nydus = Warp-in, and it's actually more overpowered, because a single overlord can spawn as many Nyduses it wants to and do it away from the other player's FOV.
While to warp inside someone's base, you have to send a probe over there. In fact, the only reason why this strategy is only viable in PvP is because Protoss can't kill a probe before they have either a Sentry or a Stalker out. And by then it's usually too late.
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On March 08 2010 20:06 dustdust wrote:
How many Zerg and Terrans have you seen build pylons?
(stolen from 4chan /3/ yesterday)
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LOL by the time Zerg gets Nydus tech + the resources + the chance to use it, toss can use warp-in + pylons like 10 times already. Don't try and argue that Nydus is equal to Warp-in cause it isn't, plain and simple.
And who said you need a pylon in their base? You know, making a pylon right outside their nat while attacking is equally powerful.
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On March 09 2010 08:45 DeA wrote:
Are you trying to say that Nydus Canal = Warp-in? Cause if you are then you're totally wrong.
I would also have no problem to see Nydus in Hive tech.
Nydus is 10x better than warpin, stop trying to derail this thread with your nonsense.
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On March 09 2010 08:51 Chi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 08:45 DeA wrote:
Are you trying to say that Nydus Canal = Warp-in? Cause if you are then you're totally wrong.
I would also have no problem to see Nydus in Hive tech. Nydus is 10x better than warpin, stop trying to derail this thread with your nonsense.
Maybe you want to back that up with something? BTW this thread is getting off-topic, no need to argue about this here...
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I think warp gates should be costly just like add ons cost something on barracks/factories/port
Not something huge, but like 50/25 or 50/50
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On March 09 2010 08:59 Fayth wrote:
I think warp gates should be costly just like add ons cost something on barracks/factories/port
Not something huge, but like 50/25 or 50/50
i like this idea. you could also make the upgrade free but you have to give up the supply it produces. pvp right now involves building only 1 pylon in your own base and start spamming pylons in your opponents base. this isnt viable if you have to give up the supply
if this doesnt nerf the problem enough you could also opt to give the upgrade for the pylon to take 10-30 sec and make the pylon extremely vulnerable during that period. this way it can be destroyed by 1 zealot or a couple probes while it changes to a warp/dark pylon. it also delays the rush a little bit
this shouldnt affect the other matchups to much since you can still proxy pylon outside the base of your opponent if you want to. just not within the line of sight of your opponent.
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On March 09 2010 12:44 Infie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 08:59 Fayth wrote:
I think warp gates should be costly just like add ons cost something on barracks/factories/port
Not something huge, but like 50/25 or 50/50 i like this idea. you could also make the upgrade free but you have to give up the supply it produces. pvp right now involves building only 1 pylon in your own base and start spamming pylons in your opponents base. this isnt viable if you have to give up the supply if this doesnt nerf the problem enough you could also opt to give the upgrade for the pylon to take 10-30 sec and make the pylon extremely vulnerable during that period. this way it can be destroyed by 1 zealot or a couple probes while it changes to a warp/dark pylon. it also delays the rush a little bit this shouldnt affect the other matchups to much since you can still proxy pylon outside the base of your opponent if you want to. just not within the line of sight of your opponent.
He was talking about upgrading the gateway to a warpgate, not the pylon.
I say on this subject , the pylon interference thing is a good idea cause it doesn't change other matchups, but i also think it would be a good idea to up the warpgate upgrade cost (its the cheapest in the game O.o, kinda ridiculous for how good it is) and move it to the twilight council atleast.
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Inability to overlap Pylon power fields would mess with two allied Protoss players. Even making this mechanic specific to enemy Protoss players would not work, because in the situation where a player wants to unally another Protoss player, the Pylon power grids may have already been overlapped. How do you handle that?
I would say rather than disallowing Pylon power grids to overlap, simply double the Pylon warp-in time should its power grid overlap with another Protoss' Pylon power grid. That way, it will gain health slower so it will be easier to kill off, and it will take a full 50 seconds to warp in instead of 25 seconds.
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On March 09 2010 14:48 LunarC wrote:
Inability to overlap Pylon power fields would mess with two allied Protoss players. Even making this mechanic specific to enemy Protoss players would not work, because in the situation where a player wants to unally another Protoss player, the Pylon power grids may have already been overlapped. How do you handle that?
I would say rather than disallowing Pylon power grids to overlap, simply double the Pylon warp-in time should its power grid overlap with another Protoss' Pylon power grid. That way, it will gain health slower so it will be easier to kill off, and it will take a full 50 seconds to warp in instead of 25 seconds.
Just make it that they must be from enemy Pylons. In your case, however, warp gates would become useless.
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On March 09 2010 14:49 squ1d wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2010 14:48 LunarC wrote:
Inability to overlap Pylon power fields would mess with two allied Protoss players. Even making this mechanic specific to enemy Protoss players would not work, because in the situation where a player wants to unally another Protoss player, the Pylon power grids may have already been overlapped. How do you handle that?
I would say rather than disallowing Pylon power grids to overlap, simply double the Pylon warp-in time should its power grid overlap with another Protoss' Pylon power grid. That way, it will gain health slower so it will be easier to kill off, and it will take a full 50 seconds to warp in instead of 25 seconds. Just make it that they must be from enemy Pylons. In your case, however, warp gates would become useless.
How would warp gates become useless? The extended warp-in time only applies to Pylons and nothing else and only when the Pylon's power field overlaps with an enemy's power field. Did you read my post? What if the player wants to change alliances in a more casual game? What will become of pylons with power fields that already overlap? You can't expect Starcraft 2 to be played seriously all the time.
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10387 Posts
I think a better solution would be to lengthen the warp-in time for a Warp Gate'd unit and shorten the cool-down period, so that the time to build a unit is roughly the same, but a unit being warped in would be vulnerable for a longer period of time. This gives the defender an advantage and timing opportunity, and would make this sort of cheese less viable.
I don't have the beta so I wouldn't know how much this would impact PvT and PvZ, but I don't think it would impact it that much.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/3266/terranpylon.png)
