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SC2 Optimal worker saturation - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Steve496
Profile Joined July 2009
United States60 Posts
March 30 2010 21:03 GMT
#41
The zerg numbers look off because of the difference between real time and the replay timer - that is, the 2 minutes for the zerg numbers are about 30% more time than the 2 minutes in the probe test. Hence, we'd expect the numbers to be about 30% higher - and they are. Nothing weird happening here, and in terms of figuring out saturation the drone test is fine; they just can't be compared straight across to tests done the other way unless one adjusts for the speed difference.
SBelmont
Profile Joined August 2008
United States122 Posts
March 30 2010 21:27 GMT
#42
3 per patch is the absolute max. If workers in SC1 worked like they did in SC2 saturation would be at 3 per patch too.

The reasoning: The time it takes for a worker to deliver minerals and return to them is slightly longer than the time it takes for a worker to start mining and then start heading back. With 2 workers a patch, there will (almost) always be a slight delay in which the patch is not being mined. For the closest patches to your CC/Nexus/Hatchery, it only takes 2 workers to always have it being mined. Obviously this can also be noted that 18 workers is complete saturation at a gold mineral patch (3 x6).

This isn't accounting for different in worker movement speed. I believe all workers have a "mine" time that is equal to each other, so with 3 per patch income should be even.
us.insurgency
Profile Joined March 2010
United States330 Posts
March 30 2010 21:28 GMT
#43
i dont think those zerg stats are right.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
March 30 2010 21:31 GMT
#44
the op srsly needs to be updated.....
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
-orb-
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5770 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-03-30 22:01:57
March 30 2010 21:57 GMT
#45
The thread is completely wrong, I had assumed someone posting numbers like that would be correct, but I just went into a game and tested a couple different numbers of workers and the mining rate of protoss is the same as with zerg. here are the numbers I found:

6:
Zerg: ~248
Protoss: ~248

10:
Zerg: ~419
Protoss: ~419

14:
Zerg: ~590
Protoss: ~590

18:
Zerg: ~705
Protoss: ~705

22:
Zerg: ~762
Protoss: ~762

Here is the replay of the test game proving this:
http://www.mediafire.com/?uyqjjdymmhy

edit: also here's the ratios of going from step to stop going up 4 workers:
6>10
worker ratio: 1.6667
Mining ratio: 1.6895

10>14
worker ratio: 1.4
mining ratio: 1.4081

14>18
worker ratio: 1.2857
mining ratio: 1.1949

18>22
worker ratio: 1.2222
mining ratio: 1.0809

as you can see you're getting basically 1:1 bang for your buck up to 14 workers, but after that your payoff per worker added drops and it gets less and less efficient to add workers.
'life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery'
how sad that sc2 has no shield battery :(
Gescom
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada3443 Posts
March 30 2010 22:00 GMT
#46
I have run these tests for all races multiple times as well -- all 3 races mine the same. About 1100 minerals for 24 workers (saturated) in 1 real minute.
Jaedong Hyuk || Bisu Jangbi || Fantasy Flash
Zeke50100
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2220 Posts
March 30 2010 22:16 GMT
#47
I don't get where people get ANY number other than 16 as being decreased mining efficiency. At 2 per patch, mining time is still available (I don't know of any patches at mains that are able to be fully mined at 2 workers). There should not be any drop in efficiency until you hit 3 workers at a patch. Where this "Oh, 16->17 has less efficiency, 17->18 has even less efficiency" stuff is coming from, I don't know; in order to accurately measure worker efficiency, you have to dismiss patch distances from the HQ. Obviously, you'll see a drop in "efficiency" if you have a worker at the closest patch, then see that the second worker at any other patch will bring in less >.>

Until you hit 17 workers (that is, once you hit 17 workers, the remainder of this sentence is false), you have the exact same efficiency for every worker barring patch distances. The 17th worker, however, will have less efficiency due to not having a time slot it can perfectly fit into.

@Orb: The reason your ratios/efficiencies are not accurate is because you only measured them at every 4th worker, starting at an arbitrary 6. If you measured efficiency for EVERY worker, you should find relatively maximum efficiencies for the first 16 workers (the variations will be due to patch distances), and then start seeing decreases with the 17th worker. By jumping from 14 to 18, you are assuming that each worker between there will have the same efficiency.

Also, note that each worker has a walking speed of 2.8125. Every single one. There are also NO known differences in mining speed.
_EmIL_
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden138 Posts
March 30 2010 22:22 GMT
#48
I think its best to just stay on 16-18 probes..

Losing is winning
NiiPPLES
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom201 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-26 17:45:14
April 26 2010 17:42 GMT
#49
SichuanPanda
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1542 Posts
April 26 2010 17:48 GMT
#50
I've found 17 DRONES to be sufficiently saturated for Zerg. However, Protoss I've found 24 Probes provide full saturation, and 22 SCVs provide full saturation for Terran. The number of workers I put on gas depends how far the geyser is, the ones that are as close as possible to your CC/Nex/Hatch I used 3 workers on, while the ones that are one space further away I've found 4 can mine it without having a worker waiting outside for more than .3 seconds.
i-bonjwa
DrSmoke
Profile Joined April 2010
United States175 Posts
April 26 2010 17:54 GMT
#51
On April 27 2010 02:48 SichuanPanda wrote:
I've found 17 DRONES to be sufficiently saturated for Zerg. However, Protoss I've found 24 Probes provide full saturation, and 22 SCVs provide full saturation for Terran. The number of workers I put on gas depends how far the geyser is, the ones that are as close as possible to your CC/Nex/Hatch I used 3 workers on, while the ones that are one space further away I've found 4 can mine it without having a worker waiting outside for more than .3 seconds.


100% wrong
agleed.agleed
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany110 Posts
April 26 2010 18:07 GMT
#52
On April 27 2010 02:48 SichuanPanda wrote:
I've found 17 DRONES to be sufficiently saturated for Zerg. However, Protoss I've found 24 Probes provide full saturation, and 22 SCVs provide full saturation for Terran. The number of workers I put on gas depends how far the geyser is, the ones that are as close as possible to your CC/Nex/Hatch I used 3 workers on, while the ones that are one space further away I've found 4 can mine it without having a worker waiting outside for more than .3 seconds.


yeah sorry dude, never seen some wrong in one post.
moapy
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia5 Posts
August 24 2010 22:50 GMT
#53
So....

Can I please have someone who actually knows what they are talking about tell me which one of the 50 responses to this thread is correct?

My understanding is 16 is a nice number and 24 is max saturation? (this is not including 6 gas workers). Is this correct?
Warp
Profile Joined August 2010
United States166 Posts
August 24 2010 23:04 GMT
#54
Best (or almost closest to it) is to keep making probes/drones if you intend to expand, but optimal mining saturation for each base is 24 on minerals and 3 on each gas = 30.

The best example of saturation is watching HuK play.... because he ALMOST always stops probe production at 30.

Way to revive the thread btw
"nothing supscious going on here" - Camille Cavour aka Chris Loranger aka HuK the beast
Shika
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Sweden1711 Posts
August 24 2010 23:09 GMT
#55
For zerg, this is what i've gathered to be quite effective.

2.5 workers per patch = 20 workers (not counting gas, naturally). You could add 4 more but the gain will be small and you are probably better of sending those to an expansion or using the larvae for attack units.
Stropheum
Profile Joined January 2010
United States1124 Posts
August 24 2010 23:12 GMT
#56
you don't need exact numbers. Just make a custom map with one mineral patch at minimum distance from spawn point. You'll see that with three workers, one is always mining, one is always returning minerals, and one is always heading back to the minerals. any more and you get minerals faster, but one drone is always idle, thus, diminishing returns in terms of collection rate/workers
semantics
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
10040 Posts
August 24 2010 23:15 GMT
#57
On August 25 2010 08:09 Shika wrote:
For zerg, this is what i've gathered to be quite effective.

2.5 workers per patch = 20 workers (not counting gas, naturally). You could add 4 more but the gain will be small and you are probably better of sending those to an expansion or using the larvae for attack units.

This 20-22 gives around the max return for your value,
then ofc 3 for each gas. Anything past that is usually used for maynard.
heishe
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany2284 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-24 23:22:29
August 24 2010 23:18 GMT
#58
19-20 drones (depending on the map) is full saturation for all races on minerals. there are usually some close mineral patches and some a little bit further away. the close ones are 100% saturated with 2 drones, the further ones are like 90% saturated with 2 drones and are covered by the 3 or 4 free running drones that have nothing to do. so it's (8x2 regular workers +3-4 freelancers).

any more drones bring absolutely minimal improvements, because the freelancers sometimes don't perfectly cover the far patches, but the difference will not make a difference in any game. the difference from 16 to 19-20 drones also isn't too big, about 3-5% if I reckon correctly. So when you set up two bases, maynard workers so that both bases have 16 on minerals before you fill both up to 20
If you value your soul, never look into the eye of a horse. Your soul will forever be lost in the void of the horse.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
August 25 2010 00:38 GMT
#59
Man, there's even a ingame tip for this, it says 3 workers pr mineral field, but since zerg has creep, you can have slightly less.
Najda
Profile Joined June 2010
United States3765 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-25 00:50:07
August 25 2010 00:48 GMT
#60
On August 25 2010 09:38 Snowfield wrote:
Man, there's even a ingame tip for this, it says 3 workers pr mineral field, but since zerg has creep, you can have slightly less.


Drones have the same movement speed on and off the creep. Don't believe me? Go into a game and look at the drones movespeed when on the creep (2.81) then move it off the creep and check again, still 2.81 .

The 2nd post of this thread gives all the information one could really need. There is no magic number though, because its always useful to keep making workers for a transfer.
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