EPTHow is this different or the same from any other limited BO resource like say gas?
Nexus has time warp ability, Obelisk out of game - Page 9
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
How is this different or the same from any other limited BO resource like say gas? | ||
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
On February 14 2010 07:23 ProoM wrote: so beta release is just around the corner and they are still making such a huge edits? Yes and they will continue making 'huge edits' throughout the beta. | ||
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wrags
United States379 Posts
On February 14 2010 07:26 Archerofaiur wrote: Serious question to everyone. Do you really believe that TW wont eventually become incorporated into BO and "pre-chosen" before the game? How is this different or the same from any other limited BO resource like say gas? yes it will once it's figured out how to optimize the usage. further than that, there will only really be "decision making" with it until that happens, after that it will be do this or you're behind. (which will be another "monotonous" task if i might add) edit - i meant in relation to which build you're choosing, but that will be the real "decision making", it's not really dictated by macro mechanics unless something is particularly abusive | ||
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
On February 14 2010 07:26 Archerofaiur wrote: Serious question to everyone. Do you really believe that TW wont eventually become incorporated into BO and "pre-chosen" before the game? How is this different or the same from any other limited BO resource like say gas? Of course it will be incorporated. However, as I've said before I think it is superior to PC because it can potentially do what PC did (increased minerals through increased probe production) but it can also be utilized on attack units or upgrades which allows the player to manipulate timings which they could not do with PC. That said, TW (depending upon specific stats) can do exactly what PC did while simultaneously broadening the macro-game. That is, TW will provide a greater number of 'optimized build orders' while simultaneously adding flexibility to the game as a whole by offering more 'on-the-spot' non-pre-chosen options to players for when they are for example tricked and need to deviate from their pre-chosen-BO. | ||
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haitike
Spain2744 Posts
On February 14 2010 07:23 ProoM wrote: so beta release is just around the corner and they are still making such a huge edits? In the SC Beta Queen had the actual Mutalisk attack, and Mutalisk attacked with an acid. Carriers had 10 interceptors, etc. In the pre-beta defilers where air units. SC2 beta is more defined and balanced that SC1 beta. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
Protoss building that every couple of seconds lets you increase unit production, upgrades or even building production. Should lead to crazy build orders where players can funnel this power into one area for timing advantages. Also promotes macro gameplay because the player will have to issue specific commands about where this benefit should be directed. Should be limited to only one per base. + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://archive.rpgclassics.com/subsites/starcraft/images/assimilator.gif) | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On February 14 2010 08:31 FrozenArbiter wrote: I'm starting to feel like you are just trolling ;o No Im analyzing, drawing connections, etc. Im being kind of tongue and cheek about it but allot of that reflects my belief that the designers who created the original RTS games really did have an incredible understanding of game mechanics. Thats been kind of a running theme in my observation of this whole macro movement. From it I have developed an immense respect for the guys behind Dune II. They really were geniuses to understand and integrate game infrastructure in the way they did. It reminds me of studying biology and being amazed how well everything is put together. For instance im studying kidneys and you can ask anyone whose studied them, they are god damn amazing. In not so many words....elegant. Thats the same kind of feeling I get when I look at how the core of RTS macro infrastructure was designed almost 20 years ago. Whether Starcraft 2's macro will reach that same level remains to be seen. | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33723 Posts
Serious question to everyone. Do you really believe that TW wont eventually become incorporated into BO and "pre-chosen" before the game? How is this different or the same from any other limited BO resource like say gas? Yes it will be, but unlike PC (which is "click here, every 30 seconds, every game, every build) there is at least room for variations here. | ||
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DeCoup
Australia1933 Posts
In late game PC only served to deplete your minerals more quickly and make starvation less favourable for you. By balancing the race around the fact that they don't have a resource mechanic they allow the Protoss to have income for a longer period of time than Terran or Zerg in a starvation situation. These two factors added together give Protoss a lot of mid-late game viability in comparison. | ||
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RedTerror
New Zealand742 Posts
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Noev
United States1105 Posts
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Tyraz
New Zealand310 Posts
Seriously; extrapolating on the smallest, iddy biddy thing and trying to dissect the consequences of wild speculation is getting very old, very quickly. When the beta comes out, I expect videos demonstrating why certain mechanics are bad before you make any drawn out extrapolations. | ||
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SWPIGWANG
Canada482 Posts
If you want to make a game where everyone macros a lot more, it is simple and does not require an "macro mechanic". Just play altered starcraft UMS where everything costs half as much and build twice as fast, or something of that sorts. The whole APM and macro requirement thing is just smoke and mirrors anyways. Yes you can solve it by something as trivial as tweaking the costs and build times. The problem is how to make something interesting in itself as opposed to brute forcing a solution like that. --- You say it is not better than an extra resource, like gas. Yes, that is true, and adding an mandatory resource well add quite a bit of complexity to the macro of starcraft, but probably too much for a sequel. This is not age of empires games or HOI and macro ultimately is only so important. | ||
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wrags
United States379 Posts
On February 14 2010 12:08 SWPIGWANG wrote: Arch: A good game is not about taking something that is good and make the player do a lot of that. For example, we all know M&M micro is fun, so does that mean SC2 should remove the factor so they don't do lame timing pushes? If you want to make a game where everyone macros a lot more, it is simple and does not require an "macro mechanic". Just play altered starcraft UMS where everything costs half as much and build twice as fast, or something of that sorts. The whole APM and macro requirement thing is just smoke and mirrors anyways. Yes you can solve it by something as trivial as tweaking the costs and build times. The problem is how to make something interesting in itself as opposed to brute forcing a solution like that. --- You say it is not better than an extra resource, like gas. Yes, that is true, and adding an mandatory resource well add quite a bit of complexity to the macro of starcraft, but probably too much for a sequel. This is not age of empires games or HOI and macro ultimately is only so important. i don't understand, what does marine micro have anything to do with timing windows? | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5472 Posts
But, on top of that, we can choose not to do produce probes and instead accelerate certain tech choices, making for unusual timings for tech and unit counts, able to be used in both an offensive and defensive role? The choices are certainly there to play different styles, including a more macro based playstyle. Whether or not extra probes is meaningful for a macro style though, we can't really say for sure yet. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On February 14 2010 07:26 Archerofaiur wrote: Serious question to everyone. Do you really believe that TW wont eventually become incorporated into BO and "pre-chosen" before the game? How is this different or the same from any other limited BO resource like say gas? No, I don't. By definition, a BO involves a plan and so any macro mechanic that ever exists will be incorporated into a BO somehow. This does not make them all the same. While I guess you might just be the skeptic responding to the overwhelming positive feedback concerning Time Warp, if you can't really see why it's actually better than proton charge then you probably can't see why kids like cinnamon toast crunch either. | ||
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Bosu
United States3247 Posts
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
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JohannesH
Finland1364 Posts
On February 14 2010 07:26 Archerofaiur wrote: Serious question to everyone. Do you really believe that TW wont eventually become incorporated into BO and "pre-chosen" before the game? How is this different or the same from any other limited BO resource like say gas? Eventually there will be 1 build to rule them all, you just pick the right build and win, theres not that much to this game, Dune II was better yeah | ||
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