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Kirika
United Kingdom17 Posts
On June 08 2010 02:01 WhistlingMtn wrote: haha, sounded like a Gretorp orgasm when the ultras and bannelings wiped out the terran forces in game 1 of Haypro v Maka I'm SO glad I'm not the only one who thought that. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On June 08 2010 19:44 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: If anything then Day[9] hates Kespa and supports Blizzard. And I'm frigging glad he isn't jumping on the anti-Blizzard train as everyone else. Uh....I wouldn't be jumping to conclusions dude. I personally could care less about what's happening at this point. | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
tldr: Again, not saying ultras are bad (well they kinda are, so slow and expensive haha) against mech, but just that that replay didn't show why ultras are good against mech. And SC2 ultra > SC1 ultra is sooooo questionable. Ultras are good against mech, period. They force thors (or marauders but that's bio), because tanks are NOT good against ultras. Once you force Thors, tank numbers go down, and infestors go up in power massively. They also force you to upgrade the 250 mm cannon, which means that everytime a thor is MC:ed, you lose another Thor to the cannon unless you can kill the infestor quickly. | ||
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shimpoe
88 Posts
On June 08 2010 17:54 TheRabidDeer wrote: I disagree that a build that simply combats another build being just fine in this scenario. It might be fine if there exists a build that actually does counter it, and you opt for this particular build for the options it presents later on (I havent seen 131 yet). However, if this one build is really the only option that you have then the matchup turns into this build vs mech every single time and whoever wins is just whoever executed better. That is an unreasonable situation to be in. I sort of agree and disagree. What I mean is, the build is perfectly fine, it combats mech well enough to get the job done. I do think people should always be searching for other strategies, and not just settling, but for now this seems like a reasonable way for zerg to fight against mech. At least, it's a hell of a lot better than the ridiculous amount of people who just curl up in the fetal position and cry every time they face terran (I'm not implying that you do this by the way :p). What I disagree with though is that there are many builds you can look at in Broodwar that weren't direct hard counters to one another, but rather just two strong solid builds duking it out, and that turned out to supply countless exciting games. However, if the game becomes too much of "this build hard counters that build which hard counters that build etc" then the game becomes an elaborate game of rock-paper-scissors, which is equally lackluster. But all in all, it's definitely an area of the game that should continue to be explored for sure, but at least there is one reasonable answer for this so called "ZvT(mech) impossibility." | ||
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STS17
United States1817 Posts
Also, it's worth noting that the internet in my house crashed about an hour before your daily so I watched it on my cell phone so I wouldn't miss it. | ||
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
On June 08 2010 21:01 DooMDash wrote: Hey I'm pretty sure I've played you ZergsNeedFood. I feel like you played Terran though. You probably did. I did play Terran. Zergneedsfood is to mess with people.  Did you win? Edit: Forgot to say it, but great show last night Day9. I personally loved seeing a Zergling/Ultra/Infestor combination. Made me reminiscent of SC1. | ||
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SugarBear
United States842 Posts
On June 08 2010 19:44 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: If anything then Day[9] hates Kespa and supports Blizzard. And I'm frigging glad he isn't jumping on the anti-Blizzard train as everyone else. Agreed. With all these whiners, it's actually a bit like none of them have actually played the beta and realized what a solid and fun game SC2 is at its core. The rest can always be added later if there is enough demand for it. It's a beta people. Having said that, it's nice that there are a number of people interested in expressing their concerns intelligently so that Activision/Blizzard can look into resolving these issues before the game is released or shortly thereafter. | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
The only problem is they can get barreled down from range but no more than other zerg units and you can simply drop them onto siege tanks and they do really really high damage. The myth that tanks>ultras stemmed from bw when spider mines existed and ultralisks did no splash damage combined with the fact that marines can easily take down overlords. Also the tank ai was stupid so a mass of zerglings with hydras/mutas would take so much damage becaues of them all overkilling one zergling. It used to be like 2 fact tanks-->guardians 2 port vessel -->ultras for your hive tech way back in "the day" Right now ultras/roaches are the only units that can really stand up to tanks and roaches don't really output enough damage and phase out later when tank splash becomes too strong. Also what jinro said. The strength of mech relies on tanks. Thors and hellions can be overrun by enough zerg units. [ling/roach/infestor/hydra] | ||
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Bj_o_rn
Sweden21 Posts
 Thanks for the heads up, now I can leave my F5 key alone for a few hours! | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On June 08 2010 21:17 FrozenArbiter wrote: Ultras are good against mech, period. They force thors (or marauders but that's bio), because tanks are NOT good against ultras. Once you force Thors, tank numbers go down, and infestors go up in power massively. They also force you to upgrade the 250 mm cannon, which means that everytime a thor is MC:ed, you lose another Thor to the cannon unless you can kill the infestor quickly. Clearly you haven't played Battlecraft Armageddon. Seriously though, have people started using unsieged tanks? You can have a backline sieged, and kite with unsieged tanks, which actually do more damage vs. armored than sieged. Significantly more after the siege damage nerf. I think fully upgraded is 34dmg/1sec cd vs. 65/3sec cd. | ||
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shiftY803
200 Posts
To be honest, I was very disappointed by Jinro's play in that game. I do think the strat is viable, but Jinro made TLO's life easy. TLO placed his overlords at will. Imagine how much difference a viking or two would have made. Jinro let TLO kill like 16 SCVs with fungal growth at one point, due to not putting detection on his mineral line. He did basically no harrass the entire game. I know mech is passive, but I've never seen a terran THAT passive in a high-level mech game. Edit: Wanted to add that I definitely did like TLO's comments on the value of creep, and how that effects the usage of hydralisks. I still don't think ultras in SC2 > ultras in SC1 though. Maybe he was high... j/k.  | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On June 08 2010 12:46 TheMute wrote: Excellent cast as usual, but I feel like that didn't really show a solid ZvT strategy against a mech. TLO said he sends in ultras first to absorb tank shots, but in the replay, when he engaged the tanks, he usually sent the lings first... I didn't really see ultras as the big main determining factor of why he was victorious. It seemed like TLO won because he just outmacro'd Jinro and just had waaaay more stuff, constantly streaming in or dropping lings/ultras into Jinro's army/base. Simply having more stuff and units doesn't really show a certain strategy (ultra/ling) is good/decent against another strategy (mech). Or I should say, that replay didn't really show why ultras are good (or even viable) against mech. Outmacroing and outmassing a Terran doesn't mean instant win, if you just use that economic advantage to send wave after wave of squishy units into a line of Siege Tanks. That's a surefire way to hand the game over to your opponent. When you have an economic advantage, you have to use it PROPERLY. Not just use it. | ||
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goswser
United States3548 Posts
On June 08 2010 23:20 Slayer91 wrote: People seriously underestimate ultralisks because they are bad when seriously outnumbered or against large numbers of marauders both of which cases are not really relevent since every unit dies when seriously outnumbered and marauders basically counter pure ultralisks. [No zerglings or infestors supporting which in combination crush marauders] The only problem is they can get barreled down from range but no more than other zerg units and you can simply drop them onto siege tanks and they do really really high damage. The myth that tanks>ultras stemmed from bw when spider mines existed and ultralisks did no splash damage combined with the fact that marines can easily take down overlords. Also the tank ai was stupid so a mass of zerglings with hydras/mutas would take so much damage becaues of them all overkilling one zergling. It used to be like 2 fact tanks-->guardians 2 port vessel -->ultras for your hive tech way back in "the day" Right now ultras/roaches are the only units that can really stand up to tanks and roaches don't really output enough damage and phase out later when tank splash becomes too strong. Also what jinro said. The strength of mech relies on tanks. Thors and hellions can be overrun by enough zerg units. [ling/roach/infestor/hydra] Actually the best unit against mech is banelings in my opinion. If you have 3 bases you can literally build a few hundred banelings quickly, and they will smash a mech army like no other. | ||
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triplehomicide
United States2 Posts
On March 22 2010 00:50 Delerium wrote: Hey, Day9, I am one of your beloved On-Demand viewers. The other day, Livestream.com was being really slow! No surprise there. The stream kept choking and freezing in place. Finally, it remained frozen for a long time, and I was just about to give up and browse away, but then I noticed the expression on your face at that moment was priceless, a real life "derp!", and I just had to take this screenshot to share. This is from SC2 Liquibition #1, ret vs Infernal: ![[image loading]](http://i43.tinypic.com/dbgvur.jpg) I like how one eye appears open slightly wider than the other  and your tooth makes it appear as if your mouth is cocked counterwise to itself. Nerd snarl!I can't stop laughing.. I LOVE YOU DAY[9]!!!!! | ||
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shimpoe
88 Posts
On June 09 2010 03:02 triplehomicide wrote: I can't stop laughing.. I LOVE YOU DAY[9]!!!!! ![[image loading]](http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/5595/nineq.jpg) ... forgive me, I've been awake for far too long edit: aw that's too bad, I forgot imageshack renames files. It was "rapper-lil'nine"  | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
On June 08 2010 02:01 WhistlingMtn wrote: haha, sounded like a Gretorp orgasm when the ultras and bannelings wiped out the terran forces in game 1 of Haypro v Maka LOL, that is at 16 minutes in this game: http://blip.tv/file/3719006 He has some sexy lovin for this game for sure. | ||
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Spiffeh
United States830 Posts
On June 09 2010 05:09 Ghad wrote: LOL, that is at 16 minutes in this game: http://blip.tv/file/3719006 He has some sexy lovin for this game for sure. lmao that was hilarious the nerdgasm is @ exactly 16:36 for anyone trying to check it out xD | ||
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skeldark
Germany2223 Posts
Great work ! but PLS PLS upload you last daily to bib .... | ||
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