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roemy
Germany432 Posts
there is no censorship going on here. blizzard does this completely on their own accord in order to avoid the "FSK 18" seal which has no legal ramifications whatsoever; not for vendors to check for ID, not for customers who buy it for kids, not for parents or whatever you could come up with. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On May 06 2010 00:30 MasterFischer wrote: Censorship is the worst abomination ever to reach human kind. It's up there with Religion, and other scary concepts such as American foreign politics and fish on pizzas. Any remotely enthusiatic fan of Starcraft II will revert from buying the german version. But I perfectly understand Blizzard's mindset in this. Censorship = no moneh ^^ No new users. Still, in terms of a matter of principle, it's a clusterfuck of epic proportions. There's no place for Idealism in this cold, hard world... ^^' But really, you are complaining about a little less blood when in China there is a Police dedicated to censor THE WHOLE INTERNET and in other Parts of the world, like North Korea, cencorship is overarching every single aspect of most ppl's lives! And you get all idealistic and angry about a game being "mildly forced" to turn down the blood a bit? xD | ||
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Skypes
Canada24 Posts
![[image loading]](http://nerfnow.com/comic/image/289) | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:14 roemy wrote: ffs... again: there is no censorship going on here. blizzard does this completely on their own accord in order to avoid the "FSK 18" seal which has no legal ramifications whatsoever; not for vendors to check for ID, not for customers who buy it for kids, not for parents or whatever you could come up with. lol? If the 18 seal had no bearing on sales, they wouldn't spend a dime of their cash modifying the game. It obviously has a detrimental effect on sales. Just because THEY censor their own product, doesn't mean the government was not involved. Do you think blizzard/activision went around polling parents in Berlin about how much gore was acceptable? And anyhow, the entire rating system is bogus. The goverment has no business telling people what they can and cannot watch. It's pretty sad the American FCC has been doing the same thing to TV and is still trying hard to break into the internet regulation game (hopefully i'm dead before that happens). Telling people what they cannot watch necessarily allows them to narrow the choice of what they can watch, which essentially makes them the ministers of propaganda. I'd rather not go back to that era. | ||
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
On May 06 2010 01:34 Fosh wrote: EDIT: One interesting thing is how you take out the blood in a game like L4D1/2. A game based around gore without it is just another barbie game. Like that: http://www.schnittberichte.com/schnittbericht.php?ID=5984068 I tried ordering uncut L4D2 at amazon.co.uk but they don't ship it to Germany anymore and I refuse to play a censored version of any game. I regret not buying the uncut version before it got indexed here.  | ||
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Art_of_Kill
Zaire1232 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:15 Skypes wrote: This comic explains it all! hahha awesome | ||
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knyttym
United States5797 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:15 Skypes wrote: This comic explains it all! that's my new wallpaper thanks. | ||
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roemy
Germany432 Posts
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true. nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media. if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means. just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany" | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:36 roemy wrote: look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish. this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true. nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media. if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means. just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany" You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so. Censorship IS going on in Germany. Deal with it. | ||
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roemy
Germany432 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:41 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: wrongBlizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so bye o/ | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
THERE WAS NOTHING GOING ON HERE AT THE TIME. WE WERE ALL ON VACATION! | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:41 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so. Censorship IS going on in Germany. Deal with it. Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers? You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship. About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany. Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-° | ||
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
Fucked up individuals are gonna do fucked up things REGARDLESS of how much damn blood, violence, murders, guns or whatever there seems to exist in games, music, videoes, films.. and so on. They are a lost cause a the start of the debate, obviously some parental flaw in the upbringing or whatevs or unbalanced and dangerous environments and social ethics. Roemy. Son. You need to deal with the fact that your country openly censors shit that would make even the most conservative christian American go, aaahhhhh HELL.. that aint tooo baadd !  Censorship in all of its forms is fucking bullshit. If you can't learn to deal with the world, and what it has to offer, and somehow know right from wrong and so son.. then you're either a fucking retard who obviously has forgotten all hopes of using that brain of yours. Hell, i've watched countless of violent shit in my youth... all sort of twisted shit.. not even REMOTELY similar to the fairytale violence going on now, and I'm perfectly functioning and sane. | ||
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Papillon
Germany131 Posts
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MasterFischer
Denmark836 Posts
Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers? You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship. About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany. Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-° __________________________________________________________________________________- Listen, there is no conclusive or REAL evidence that violence in videogames have profound negative effects, it's a myth my friend. Scaretactics, politics. Don't get lured. And I strongly disagree with you. Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence BECAUSE of the censorship going on in Germany. Why? Well they want to appeal to the broadest audience possible in germany, seems logical right? Well in order for them to able to do that, they'll have to censor their game in order for it to be approved by the GERMAN government, who enforces censorship laws.. Does that make sense? | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:53 MasterFischer wrote: Listen man... I did extensive research on violence in computer games and the effect on adults, young people and children. The effects themselves does not in ANY way justify censorship in this scale, and the censorship going on in the oriental countries is just plain out of this world. I'm a second year psychology major currently conducting an empirical study on this topic and have read over 50 papers about media violence and the evidence is quite conclusive: Media violence leads to more violent thoughts, which leads to more violent behaviour. With Blood clearly being something that will additionally make violent thoughts more accessible in your memory and therefore also highten the possibility of violent behaviour. Of course it's hard to distinguish how big the effect of this (removal of the Blood in SC2) will be exactly, but you just have to start to draw the line somewhere. Don't get my wrong - I think blaming Videogames on increased violent behaviour in today's youth is quite hypocritical, because most of the negativ effects violent video games have on people are also found in other violent media, but hey - that's how live works unfortunately. Not all to long ago it was rock'n'roll-music that was the scapegoat, then it was the TV and Movies, then it was Marylin Manson, now Videogames are to blame... Nonetheless, empirical evidence supports the general Idea... | ||
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WorkersOfTheWorld
United States619 Posts
On May 06 2010 02:52 kickinhead wrote: Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers? You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship. About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany. Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-° Exactly what? I'm saying censorship is becoming a world-wide issue. It's xenophobic to assume the Chinese are the only ones who are heavy-handed in applying limitations on what is suitable for the public. I've worked for years in the communications industry in my own country and abroad and I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong to assume that violent video-games or shows, movies, etc. have any sort of relatable effect on the tendencies of youth or any other sub-strata of society that isn't already pre-disposed to violence. There hasn't been a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims, dispite the fact that groups have unscrupulously promoted the idea for decades because of the popular morality movements that have come up since the 80s. Watch this episode of Penn and Teller's Bullshit. http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/168812/detail/ The kid loves violent video games. What happens when he handles a real automatic weapon? He fucking cries. That's what. There is NO, NONE, ZERO, relationship between violent video-games and the propensity for someone to take a human life. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On May 06 2010 03:02 WorkersOfTheWorld wrote: Exactly what? I'm saying censorship is becoming a world-wide issue. It's xenophobic to assume the Chinese are the only ones who are heavy-handed in applying limitations on what is suitable for the public. I've worked for years in the communications industry in my own country and abroad and I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong to assume that violent video-games or shows, movies, etc. have any sort of relatable effect on the tendencies of youth or any other sub-strata of society that isn't already pre-disposed to violence. There hasn't been a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims, dispite the fact that groups have unscrupulously promoted the idea for decades because of the popular morality movements that have come up since the 80s. READ THIS: On May 06 2010 02:53 MasterFischer wrote: Listen man... I did extensive research on violence in computer games and the effect on adults, young people and children. The effects themselves does not in ANY way justify censorship in this scale, and the censorship going on in the oriental countries is just plain out of this world. I'm a second year psychology major currently conducting an empirical study on this topic and have read over 50 papers about media violence and the evidence is quite conclusive: Media violence leads to more violent thoughts, which leads to more violent behaviour. With Blood clearly being something that will additionally make violent thoughts more accessible in your memory and therefore also highten the possibility of violent behaviour. Of course it's hard to distinguish how big the effect of this (removal of the Blood in SC2) will be exactly, but you just have to start to draw the line somewhere. Don't get my wrong - I think blaming Videogames on increased violent behaviour in today's youth is quite hypocritical, because most of the negativ effects violent video games have on people are also found in other violent media, but hey - that's how live works unfortunately. Not all to long ago it was rock'n'roll-music that was the scapegoat, then it was the TV and Movies, then it was Marylin Manson, now Videogames are to blame... Nonetheless, empirical evidence supports the general Idea... | ||
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skyeyesattelite
Canada56 Posts
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