It seems like Blizzard wants to adjust Starcraft 2 for the German market this has been revealed in an interview.
Just recently it has been reported that Blizzard will cut Diablo 3 for the German and the Australian markets. Now it has been announced in an interview at the fan website instarcraft2.de that this also applies to Starcraft 2.
Allen Dilling, Lead 3D Artist of Starcraft 2 said that there will be slight adjustments - blood will be removed or changed in color. Cutting enemies in half is one of the discussed things, too. But According to Dilling only few units are affected, because there are a lot of robot units and those wouldn't be changed since they don't bleed.
Blizzard wants to get an USK (German rating board) rating for Starcraft 2 that restricts the game for those below 12 years of age only. The exact modifications have not been decided on yet and the German employees of Activision Blizzard will be consulted first.
Poll: What do you think about censoring SC2? (Vote): Damn! This makes me angry!! (Vote): I think it's good.. (Vote): I don't care. (This won't affect me.)
I hope I will be able to either enter my cd code and be able to download a proper version from blizzard or to buy the UK version. I want to play in english anyway.
It's too bad that they have to do that crap but I understand them doing it to reach a wider audience. My girlfriend's mom wouldn't let her 13 year old son (my girlfriend's little brother) keep Halo because she thought it was too violent... lol
so much blood on tv, but games have to be like sims to not get censored, it just doesn't make sense... I will purchase the english version anyways, so this doesn't affect me.
But the thing is parents desided (usually) what game to get there kids, even if its a 18/15. I got CoD2 (Which was a 15 if I remember) when I was 9 for my birthday. Parents desided whats best for there children (and should) even if theres a restriction on it.
Bunch of games have this in Germany, it's no news. The German version of Team Fortress 2 has people exploding in springs, toys, rubber ducks etc. instead of the innards the rest of the world sees.
For some reason Germany takes these things very seriously.
edit: Of course you can bypass any and all censorship methods by, you guessed it, ordering from abroad.
On September 02 2009 04:00 Johnranger-123 wrote: But the thing is parents desided (usually) what game to get there kids, even if its a 18/15. I got CoD2 (Which was a 15 if I remember) when I was 9 for my birthday. Parents desided whats best for there children (and should) even if theres a restriction on it.
Yea but even though your parents may not have cared about the labeled age guideline (I know my parents didn't) some parents think they're being responsible by putting their foot down if the box say 17+ or something even if they don't know anything about the game.
Original Red Alert german version had robots fighting each other! How about that.
Whatever, everyone who cares about the game will buy the English version anyway just to avoid the bad translations and German voice actors. Not to mention the retarded German hotkey layout should they change it for foreign versions again.
Censorship is Germany's cheap answer to school shootings. Whether this has any effect is highly debatable, but then again I couldn't care less whether the blood is red or green.
If you take SC (and SC2 as well) seriously the slightest bit, you shouldn't care about such nonsense at all. SC is a strategy game, not an action movie or whatever. If you waste your time watching death animations you won't get anywhere in SC.
Yeah btw I don't think they would have a problem anyway. As stupid as the whole rating system is in general, they won't rate an RTS game 16+ even with the little blood in there. Obviously Blizzards wants to take no risks so they'll remove it anyway. But I don't think an RTS game has ever received a rating higher than 12+ in Germany.
So... It's not going to be a setting you can adjust? Or did I not read something. If they remove it COMPLETELY, single player wouldn't be the same. I say, let there be a choice if you want the blood or not.
Having done localization testing for EA on Medal of Honor, I'm pretty familiar with this form of censorship, which France and Germany call "softening". Basically, any humanoid is not allowed to bleed red blood because it's considered realistic violence. I'm unsure if this applies to animals, but it probably does.
And yes, realistic violence. Space marines getting killed by enormous cows with scythe-like tusks is extremely realistic.
German C&C Generals has USK 16+. And my SCBW hull says 16+, too, but it's an English version and it doesn't say anything about what kind of rating that 16+ is from.
Kids are pussies. I don't really care about graphics that much, but the artists have gone to great lengths to give star2 its specific look and now that will be compromised, if only slightly. This is bad but not serious. I do get angry about these kinds of boards though.
On September 02 2009 03:36 AdunToridas wrote: Blizzard: Starcraft 2 with less blood in Germany
It seems like Blizzard wants to adjust Starcraft 2 for the German market this has been revealed in an interview.
Just recently it has been reported that Blizzard will cut Diablo 3 for the German and the Australian markets. Now it has been announced in an interview at the fan website instarcraft2.de that this also applies to Starcraft 2.
Allen Dilling, Lead 3D Artist of Starcraft 2 said that there will be slight adjustments - blood will be removed or changed in color. Cutting enemies in half is one of the discussed things, too. But According to Dilling only few units are affected, because there are a lot of robot units and those wouldn't be changed since they don't bleed.
Blizzard wants to get an USK (German rating board) rating for Starcraft 2 that restricts the game for those below 12 years of age only. The exact modifications have not been decided on yet and the German employees of Activision Blizzard will be consulted first.
It kind of sucks for the German people that they have a rating system that strict in their country, and it's pretty frustrating to see this kind of censorship (I'm very libertarian), but it actually doesn't make me that incredibly angry. I think I've just kind of given up on caring at this point. Humanity's fucked, we're too stupid to do any real good.
Ok, I seriously have to know. What the fuck is wrong with the German government? I live in the US and something like this would NEVER fly, even though a huge percentage of our population is conservative. No matter how hard Bill O'reilly would push something like this it simply would never happen. What is different about Germany that something like this can pass?
Censorship is so dumb. It doesnt affect me so I cant get that mad, but I would be furious if its something I had to listen with. I'm pretty sure Germans can handle a little bit of blood...
Nooooooo! Why? Well, guess what? I just decided to get the english version, with original voices and graphics that don't let you feel like you got "beschissen" as we Germans say.
Do you know what they did to Metal Slug Anthology? They made the blood white! Fucking white! I don't want to see a Space Marine die and think he just came. What the heck?!
I prefer graphics which are nice to look at. German politicans just do this to not deal with the actual problems, which cause those kids to run amok! Gaming gets killed in Germany! (They had to cancel wc3 tournaments due to people who are afraid of "killer games".)
OK people lighten up. It's not the government that is 'censoring' here, at least not directly. We have no censorship, freedom of expression is right in our constitution, not in some amendment :-) But, Germany is a very complicated place.
Here is how it works: The government issues licenses for rating bodies for media. The industry itself is called to install an institution that will rate their media, voluntarily. The government has no direct influence on how the media will be rated. Ultimately they could revoke the license, however that would have to be justified and a couple of questionable rating will not suffice. Also, the rating board would probably file a complaint instantly, and if there is anyone the government does not want to face in Germany, it's the judges. And, the government would have to issue a new license to another institution or all media would be sold unrated (which was the case with computer games for quite some time). So, each industry, movies, computer games, arcades, etc, has their own rating board.
The USK, which is the rating agency for computer games, generally does a very good job. In fact, they are under constant attack from right wing politicians and NGOs that want to replace them for being too soft when rating games.
The real problem is the German distributors being scared of high age ratings, whether this is justified or not. They just care about # sold and they don't care about the games. So the ask the game makers to provide them "softened" versions upfront, so they are guaranteed a low age rating. This leads to those mutilated games with content removed or altered. Often they go totally overboard, for example this time with Starcraft2. I am convinced Starcraft would not get a 16+ rating. As I said, generally the USK does a pretty good job and surely does not apply simply one dimensional amount of blood numbers. It's just that the distributors don't care about the games and just want their 12+ boxes in the shelves no matter what.
But, again, it's not the government that does this. In fact, 'concerned' politicians have been trying to ban Counter-Strike for 10 years now to no avail. They find ever better ways to hit ESPORTS where it hurts but banning or censoring games just like that doesn't work in Germany either.
And, after all you will just be able to buy the English version in Germany, it's not like it won't be sold.
On September 02 2009 05:28 zatic wrote: OK people lighten up. It's not the government that is 'censoring' here, at least not directly. We have no censorship, freedom of expression is right in our constitution, not in some amendment :-) But, Germany is a very complicated place.
Here is how it works: The government issues licenses for rating bodies for media. The industry itself is called to install an institution that will rate their media, voluntarily. The government has no direct influence on how the media will be rated. Ultimately they could revoke the license, however that would have to be justified and a couple of questionable rating will not suffice. Also, the rating board would probably file a complaint instantly. And, the government would have to issue a new license to another institution or all media would be sold unrated (which was the case with computer games for quite some time). So, each industry, movies, computer games, arcades, etc, has their own rating board.
The USK, which is the rating agency for computer games, generally does a very good job. In fact, they are under constant attack from right wing politicians and NGOs that want to replace them for being too soft when rating games.
The real problem is the German distributors being scared of high age ratings, whether this is justified or not. They just care about # sold and they don't care about the games. So the ask the game makers to provide them "softened" versions upfront, so they are guaranteed a low age rating. This leads to those mutilated games with content removed or altered. Often they go totally overboard, for example this time with Starcraft2. I am convinced Starcraft would not get a 16+ rating. As I said, generally the USK does a pretty good job and surely does not apply simply one dimensional amount of blood numbers. It's just that the distributors don't care about the games and just want their 12+ boxes in the shelves no matter what.
But, again, it's not the government that does this. In fact, 'concerned' politicians have been trying to ban Counter-Strike for 10 years now to no avail. They find ever better ways to hit ESPORTS where it hurts but banning or censoring games just like that doesn't work in Germany either.
And, after all you will just be able to buy the English version in Germany, it's not like it won't be sold.
And you know what sucks about Germany, too? It's never as easy as it seems as first. ;D
On September 02 2009 05:12 imperator-xy wrote: i am german and i dont see the point how this could somehow lower the fun
It has nothing to do with fun. It is about how the government wants to control you.
You are seeing things here. We indeed have a problem with censorship at the moment, but that is because of a law that has to do with child pornography on the internet and could lead to lots of internet censorship.
The government obviously only controls the underaged with game censorship. According to our Grundgesetz children are to be protected from the influence of violence and pornography, and that's what the censorship does. After all, there are plenty of parents that don't care what their children watch or play. Also, the system has become less restrictive over time imo. Stuff that would have been 16+ 5-10 years ago now is 12+.
Maybe the 16+ should be changed to 15+, but apart from that I think the system works fine. Also, if the parents think that their child is free to play whatever game, they can just go and buy it for them. I don't even think it would be illegal to do so.
I probably could continue ranting, but in short: I don't get why the whole world is so damn bloodthirsty. If you play a game because you like to kill and see fountains of blood something is wrong with you. Seriously.
On September 02 2009 05:02 HuskyTheHusky wrote: Ok, I seriously have to know. What the fuck is wrong with the German government? I live in the US and something like this would NEVER fly, even though a huge percentage of our population is conservative. No matter how hard Bill O'reilly would push something like this it simply would never happen. What is different about Germany that something like this can pass?
Censorship is so dumb. It doesnt affect me so I cant get that mad, but I would be furious if its something I had to listen with. I'm pretty sure Germans can handle a little bit of blood...
You say something like that would never fly in the US, yet live broadcastings of your superbowl are delayed to cut nudity out, correct me if im wrong. Assuming im not it is both stupid ofc, but reducing nudity makes less sense than violence imho. Wether a civilian institution (in the US case i guess?) or a government forbids something makes no difference to me. The pressure from society is even worse i think, because i can try to resist a government, but not the pressure of my society.
Btw The USK who does the rating is no government organisation, there is "just" a law that makes their ratings binding for the sellers.
See I'm mixed on this. The reason that Blizzard is doing this isn't because they are required to, it's because they want to hit a certain target audience. It's the same concept in the United States where movie producers cut out some gore and shit to ensure a movie is PG-13 instead of R. In the US I believe you can't buy M games under 17 or something. Germany just has that age limit before. I agree with having these ratings, and fully support the German board for giving it an appropriate rating.
they censored counter-strike as well (killing someone results in them lying on the floor and have their hands behind their head).
to be honest, I think showing blood when I pop someone in the head and watching them die teaches a more positive lesson than pretending bullets don't hurt people.
If you think this doesn't affect you because you're not german, you're wrong. It may not affect you in SC2 because blizzard is rich and it can put out multiple versions, but in many other cases, that is not the case.
The reason these ratings agencies exist is because they work. Each ratings agency takes a crack at the game and unless it is like a disney movie, they order something to be taken out. In fallout 3, objections by the rating agencies in australia caused them to make changes. But bethesda didn't want to pay for distributing different versions of the game, so they just released the edited game to every country. That is why children are invincible in fallout without modifications.
This is how texas censors text books. Since texas is a big state and it has a rule that every text book must be approved by the state, a bunch of right wingers show up at the state wide school text book approval meetings and demand aspects like evolution be toned down or removed or that references to christianity be made more positive. The book publishers know that if their books don't make it in texas, they will lose a massive portion of their yearly revenue, so they put up no fight whatsoever and make any change they are asked. Once they gain approval in texas they then sell those edited textbooks everywhere else with minimal modifications.
It is an insidious system because it just looks like a ratings system (who could object to that?), but realize that this system is designed to affect you, regardless of what country you are in. And know that it works extremely well.
Censorship is a tricky issue anywhere in the world. Germany IS effectivly harsh on violence but the same could be said about the US regarding Sex(Hot Coffee). There HAS to be a line and the exact place is a eternal discussion - and it should be. The bad thing isn´t that Germans can´t have Marines being cut in half but Politicians pretending that it would have ANY effect on child violence. School shooting here inevetably result in crys for new Gun and Censorship laws distracting from reforms that would REALLY help.
regardless if this effects you or not its fucking retarded. 90% of the time censorship is a fucking retarded. The whole concept of censorship is something that is fucking retarded.
Being an Australian gamer is frustrating. The idea of no Diablo 3 or a Diablo 3 lite version (Sans-blood) is a nightmare. I really hope they finally take another look at the rating system and implement a higher age rating. It's ridiculous that we're still living under the belief that games are for 'kids' only.
Germany's government is stupid... thinking that forbidding aggressive games will SOLVE useless violence. Really, that is the most stupid thing ive ever heard. Movies are OK, but games are not?
haahahaha movies are even closer to reality ....
damn ignorant people!
and btw, can't you just download your SC2 (non-censured copy from a site, then install it with your legal key?
I'll be buying the english uncut version anyways. The good thing about a cut German version is that they can use it for eSports broadcasts an therefore a bigger audience can be reached
And yes the censorship in Germany is pretty pathetic..
On September 02 2009 04:01 Bash wrote: Bunch of games have this in Germany, it's no news. The German version of Team Fortress 2 has people exploding in springs, toys, rubber ducks etc. instead of the innards the rest of the world sees.
OMG, that sounds so awesome. It makes me want to censor my own version of TF2 (there has to be SOME way to turn on this option from the console, there just has to be)
On September 02 2009 04:01 Bash wrote: Bunch of games have this in Germany, it's no news. The German version of Team Fortress 2 has people exploding in springs, toys, rubber ducks etc. instead of the innards the rest of the world sees.
OMG, that sounds so awesome. It makes me want to censor my own version of TF2 (there has to be SOME way to turn on this option from the console, there just has to be)
I agree, I don't want blood in TF2 it doesn't fit well. Give me toys and shit flying out of people any day!
In some ways it bugs me and in some ways I don't really care, the blood and all is neat but in some ways a little unnecessary, and who knows maybe there will be a future German flash who is only playing cause he could play at a younger age.
On September 02 2009 09:25 7mk wrote: arrrrg this is fucking stupid. But if the german version will not have english language then I'll be getting the english version anyways.
I'm guessing China will get the same copy as Germany then based on their recent event bans?
Btw. Wheres the option 'Good because this means they will not lower the gore on all versions just for more censored countries. That's the first thing I was worried about during all the hype of China blocking their events earlier this year.
On September 02 2009 09:53 DeCoup wrote: I'm guessing China will get the same copy as Germany then based on their recent event bans?
Btw. Wheres the option 'Good because this means they will not lower the gore on all versions just for more censored countries. That's the first thing I was worried about during all the hype of China blocking their events earlier this year.
wasn't australia also ridiculously strict on violent video games?
On September 02 2009 09:25 7mk wrote: arrrrg this is fucking stupid. But if the german version will not have english language then I'll be getting the english version anyways.
On September 02 2009 09:19 fabiano wrote: wow, after that i wonder: do they release WWII games on Germany?
lol yes they do. I think developers have to remove swastikas though.
Yep, no swastikas are allowed. And of course, it's the same in the French version of games.
Everyone read my post. Again, this is just the distributors overregulating themselves. No, swastikas are not generally banned in Germany. They are only banned in a political context. How would we enjoy The Inglourious Basterds otherwise? Unless a movie is plain nazi propaganda no one will object the use of swastikas. Same applies to computer games.
But since computer games are a fairly new media and their value as cultural works has yet to be accepted, the distributors will minimise their risk and rather butcher their own games.
A few FPS games in Germany were censored such that dead body ragdolls couldn't be affected by explosions or bullets. How fucking crazy is that? You can't shoot a lifeless body, but a live one? Sure! (as long as it isn't too gory of course)
On September 02 2009 09:53 DeCoup wrote: I'm guessing China will get the same copy as Germany then based on their recent event bans?
Btw. Wheres the option 'Good because this means they will not lower the gore on all versions just for more censored countries. That's the first thing I was worried about during all the hype of China blocking their events earlier this year.
wasn't australia also ridiculously strict on violent video games?
There are some incredibly stupid policies regarding censorship here in Oz, although part of the problem I think (other aussies who know more can give better info) is that we had no censorship system for games at all until 1994, after a big debacle with Mortal Kombat.
Currently the maximum classification we have is MA+15 -> You need to be over 15 to purchase the game. So this "maximum" that we have has caused a block on some of the games that have "wanted" to come through in whole, with no editing - but simply because of the fact that we have no 18+ classification, they can't be sold, without editing. Prime example of this (and quite a hilarious example IMO) is GTA3.
It was refused classification here in Australia because of the fact that you could 'pay to have sex with a prostitue, then kill her'. So it was edited, in our version (the legitimate version at least) you cannot pay to have sex with the prostitutes - but you can kill them all day if you want.
It's incredibly ridiculous and as far as I know the only reason we are being blocked from having an 18+ classification is because of a guy named Michael Atkinson who is in the Government, who keeps cock-blocking attempts to get a 18+ classification here in Oz.
So hopefully there will be some sort of option - depending on the whole outcome of this 'editing' - so that adults like myself and - to be quite honest - probably 75 - 80% of SC2 customers here in Oz - will be able to play an un-edited version of the game, just as you folks abroad will be able to
On September 02 2009 09:53 DeCoup wrote: I'm guessing China will get the same copy as Germany then based on their recent event bans?
Btw. Wheres the option 'Good because this means they will not lower the gore on all versions just for more censored countries. That's the first thing I was worried about during all the hype of China blocking their events earlier this year.
wasn't australia also ridiculously strict on violent video games?
There are some incredibly stupid policies regarding censorship here in Oz, although part of the problem I think (other aussies who know more can give better info) is that we had no censorship system for games at all until 1994, after a big debacle with Mortal Kombat.
Wait do I get this right? So games that don't get the 15+ rating are auto-banned from being sold in Australia? Like, completely, even for adults? Or can you sell them in for example adults-only stores? If not that is censorship what the fuck.
On September 02 2009 09:53 DeCoup wrote: I'm guessing China will get the same copy as Germany then based on their recent event bans?
Btw. Wheres the option 'Good because this means they will not lower the gore on all versions just for more censored countries. That's the first thing I was worried about during all the hype of China blocking their events earlier this year.
wasn't australia also ridiculously strict on violent video games?
There are some incredibly stupid policies regarding censorship here in Oz, although part of the problem I think (other aussies who know more can give better info) is that we had no censorship system for games at all until 1994, after a big debacle with Mortal Kombat.
Wait do I get this right? So games that don't get the 15+ rating are auto-banned from being sold in Australia? Like, completely, even for adults? Or can you sell them in for example adults-only stores? If not that is censorship what the fuck.
Yep, youve got it correct
There was a push to get a R18+ Rating brought in so we could sell games with a higher rating, however some politician has some veto right and vetoed the bill because he doesn't believe in violent video games (the dude is like 70 years old and has never played a video game in his life). Due to that, if a game doesn't fit into the MA15+ rating, it is illegal to sell it in Aus.
On September 02 2009 09:53 DeCoup wrote: I'm guessing China will get the same copy as Germany then based on their recent event bans?
Btw. Wheres the option 'Good because this means they will not lower the gore on all versions just for more censored countries. That's the first thing I was worried about during all the hype of China blocking their events earlier this year.
wasn't australia also ridiculously strict on violent video games?
There are some incredibly stupid policies regarding censorship here in Oz, although part of the problem I think (other aussies who know more can give better info) is that we had no censorship system for games at all until 1994, after a big debacle with Mortal Kombat.
Wait do I get this right? So games that don't get the 15+ rating are auto-banned from being sold in Australia? Like, completely, even for adults? Or can you sell them in for example adults-only stores? If not that is censorship what the fuck.
No they are not auto-banned. We just get a lower gore version. But I don't expect this to effect us with SC2 because it does not look more than (the Australian version of) MA+ anyway. That level of gore is fine.
On September 02 2009 16:16 MamiyaOtaru wrote: A few FPS games in Germany were censored such that dead body ragdolls couldn't be affected by explosions or bullets. How fucking crazy is that? You can't shoot a lifeless body, but a live one? Sure! (as long as it isn't too gory of course)
The German CS version was the best. It's death animation was censored so bad, when you fragged someone instead of falling over he would just sit down lol. I didn't find a video to CS 1.6 but it seems CS:S also has some pretty retarded death animation :D
Seriously, what's the use of censoring in such a way? The only thing which might happen will be young kids thinking if you shoot someone he'll just lie or sit down on the floor.
censorship sucks balls, i cant remember in which country exactly (could be Italy or Germany) they actually had the police raid lan parties where people were playing " forbidden games" and confiscate their computers. Talk about not having anything better for the police to do.
On September 02 2009 16:16 MamiyaOtaru wrote: A few FPS games in Germany were censored such that dead body ragdolls couldn't be affected by explosions or bullets. How fucking crazy is that? You can't shoot a lifeless body, but a live one? Sure! (as long as it isn't too gory of course)
The German CS version was the best. It's death animation was censored so bad, when you fragged someone instead of falling over he would just sit down lol. I didn't find a video to CS 1.6 but it seems CS:S also has some pretty retarded death animation :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3xlSyjTpj4
Seriously, what's the use of censoring in such a way? The only thing which might happen will be young kids thinking if you shoot someone he'll just lie or sit down on the floor.
That video is hilarious, they just get down on the ground and put their hands on their heads lol, that's so bad...how can anyone play like that?
I'll buy the UK version as well. But I'm pretty sure you could as well just buy the german version and download the US client from your Battle.net account. That's what I did with all other Blizzard games I have.
Germans get less blood in games. Americans get less titties in movies/tv.
Others point and laugh :p
Seriously, wouldn't bother me much even if I would be affected, I really couldn't care less about the blood in SC2 as long as it is not as retarded as in Counterstrike... But I would be pissed about it in Diablo 3.
Hm.. D3 with Monsters just sitting down instead of splattering... ... ... :D
This pisses me off. It probably won't affect me directly since I import all my games from the UK anyway but I still find it offensive. The guy makes it sound like their doing german gamers a favor and that's bullshit. I don't believe for a second that behind this decision is anything but pure greed. Nearly no one actually wants a censored game and I bet the majority of people who buy the german version of sc2/d3 won't even realize it at first. It's true that germany has the strictest rating system in the EU and afaik we're the only ones not using the PEGI system but the only way I see this changing anytime soon is when our beloved politicians realize that germany is actually losing money because of this. For that to happen we need more video game companies that have the balls not so sell their game in germany at all if they're not satisfied with the rating from the USK. A recent example for this would be X-Men Origins Wolverine (distributed by Activision Blizzard btw.): It wasn't officially released in germany but that didn't stop anyone interested in this game from buying it. Importing games within the EU today is easy, cheap and fast. All you need to do is type amazon.co.uk instead of amazon.de and wait 1-2 days longer. That's it. No german gamer needs to miss out on something because of the USK. If the developers continue to censor their own games they're not helping us and they're ripping us of. I'm supposed to go to my local store and pay 50-70€ for a censored and most likely poorly translated version of a game I've been looking forward to for over 10 years? Fuck that.
On September 02 2009 09:53 DeCoup wrote: I'm guessing China will get the same copy as Germany then based on their recent event bans?
Btw. Wheres the option 'Good because this means they will not lower the gore on all versions just for more censored countries. That's the first thing I was worried about during all the hype of China blocking their events earlier this year.
wasn't australia also ridiculously strict on violent video games?
There are some incredibly stupid policies regarding censorship here in Oz, although part of the problem I think (other aussies who know more can give better info) is that we had no censorship system for games at all until 1994, after a big debacle with Mortal Kombat.
Currently the maximum classification we have is MA+15 -> You need to be over 15 to purchase the game. So this "maximum" that we have has caused a block on some of the games that have "wanted" to come through in whole, with no editing - but simply because of the fact that we have no 18+ classification, they can't be sold, without editing. Prime example of this (and quite a hilarious example IMO) is GTA3.
It was refused classification here in Australia because of the fact that you could 'pay to have sex with a prostitue, then kill her'. So it was edited, in our version (the legitimate version at least) you cannot pay to have sex with the prostitutes - but you can kill them all day if you want.
It's incredibly ridiculous and as far as I know the only reason we are being blocked from having an 18+ classification is because of a guy named Michael Atkinson who is in the Government, who keeps cock-blocking attempts to get a 18+ classification here in Oz.
So hopefully there will be some sort of option - depending on the whole outcome of this 'editing' - so that adults like myself and - to be quite honest - probably 75 - 80% of SC2 customers here in Oz - will be able to play an un-edited version of the game, just as you folks abroad will be able to
I've always thought it was funny how some countries censor violence, and others censor sex. Like in Germany where violent video games are censored, and yet nobody minds that they'll show porn on mainstream TV channels. The US is the opposite- can't show nudity on TV, but violence is no problem. Korea seems to be like that too, but even more so.
if live in an age where we are more liberal and more restrictive at the same time. doesnt affect me, and even if it does, it doesnt matter - its just special effects
I'm not entierly sure about this but did Germany have any school shootings before this censorship was implemented? Iirc, they didnt. Not that I think that it even have anything to do with oneantoher but it's one of the key arguments for those who are for censorship of games.
On September 03 2009 04:31 Eatme wrote: I'm not entierly sure about this but did Germany have any school shootings before this censorship was implemented? Iirc, they didnt. Not that I think that it even have anything to do with oneantoher but it's one of the key arguments for those who are for censorship of games.
The censorship was always this strict (at least from the point I started playing games which might be in 95). I didn't buy or play many games past '03 but I feel like the censorship even got a little softer since then. Funnily the first school shooting in Germany happened around '02 iirc.
I don't really care, as long as it is not game breakingly stupid. Like in Half-Life, where blood is green, the military guys are robots and people that are dead sit down and shake their heads.
Fallout was mentioned on page 2, I think, but it's more than the third version that's been censored for European audiences. Both one and two had a light blood version, and two had children removed in both the German and United Kingdom releases.
It's just a decision that the ratings board has to make. Think of it this way: SC:BW has a relatively massive following, and it's a ten year old game. SC2 will have just as much of a following, and since it's updated it will appeal to younger audiences than the original does these days. Sure, censorship is bad, but I'd think that exposing potentially impressionable children to the gore of Sparks Terran could be just as bad.
(Besides, if you're from Germany and want your blood, there's always the good ol' internets.)
Uh, you guys have to understand that this is Germany. They've only had a relatively minor bit of stable history. Most of this century they were at war or suffering severe internal civil problems. It's only natural their political climate is harsher against violence, especially directed at the younger generations who will grow up with the violent history of the last century attached to them, compared to some place like the United States, which hasn't had war or strife on its home soil in over a hundred years.
Please tell me this isn't because of that laughable wives tales that if kids see an unspecified amount of violence they transform into jeffery dahmer at an unspecified point in the future, maybe.
On September 14 2009 00:34 omnigol wrote: Please tell me this isn't because of that laughable wives tales that if kids see an unspecified amount of violence they transform into jeffery dahmer at an unspecified point in the future, maybe.
Virtual guns are more dangerous than real guns, don't you know?
I don't care. will get english version anyway but not because of the censoring. who the fuck cares if there is blood anyway it may look cool for the first 5 games after that you won't care. That being said I think it makes more sense to censor violence then nudity or swearing :L
On September 02 2009 04:12 spinesheath wrote: If you take SC (and SC2 as well) seriously the slightest bit, you shouldn't care about such nonsense at all. SC is a strategy game, not an action movie or whatever. If you waste your time watching death animations you won't get anywhere in SC.
I believe Germany goes too far with game censorship. However, if SC2's graphics are distracting in the slightest, this is actually going to help German players.
lol... why don't they just do like mortal kombat did and have an option to turn blood off? would that really be so hard? then do like if the computer uses german language settings or whatever...then the blood is automatically turned off upon installation maybe...
Censorship in general is retarded. Everybody knows what they're trying to block out anyway. It's like how they censor curse words on the radio and anyone with a brain knows what they blocked.
Newsflash for conservative censorship freaks: Your kid probably hears the F word 20+ times per day in school from their friends and other kids. Hearing it on the radio or TV isn't going to corrupt your poor innocent child.
Update: Blizzard have let us know that it is indeed a slip up - "Jay was just lead by the question". Diablo 3 shouldn't need any special treatment for the Aussie Classification Board.
On September 15 2009 04:25 andrewlt wrote: I believe Germany goes too far with game censorship. However, if SC2's graphics are distracting in the slightest, this is actually going to help German players.
all movies in your free country is cencorshiped. until few years ago, MPAA has been worst cultural cencorship institution ive seen around. (watch the movie "this film has not been rated yet"). While i dont agree with cencorship (i agree on proper education), nothing is getting impacted here by german rating board turing blood green in a SCI FI GAME.
ps. also realize that sex has been more frequent and more graphic in the past 2-3 years in hollywood movies? watchi this documentary that changed the MPAA rating system. this film is not yet rated
On September 17 2009 03:45 s_side wrote: Why is Germany in particular so insane about this kind of thing?
Because all the politicians claim that video games are (partially) responsible for violence among young people. And every time there is a school shooting in Germany all the politicians do is talk about censoring (violent) video games.
On September 17 2009 03:45 s_side wrote: Why is Germany in particular so insane about this kind of thing?
Because all the politicians claim that video games are (partially) responsible for violence among young people. And every time there is a school shooting in Germany all the politicians do is talk about censoring (violent) video games.
I hate that kind of intellectual dishonesty. Instead of seriously examining the roots of these tragedies, politicians pick an easy target and then pat themselves on the back for doing all they can to reduce violence among youths.
On September 17 2009 03:45 s_side wrote: Why is Germany in particular so insane about this kind of thing?
Because all the politicians claim that video games are (partially) responsible for violence among young people. And every time there is a school shooting in Germany all the politicians do is talk about censoring (violent) video games.
I hate that kind of intellectual dishonesty. Instead of seriously examining the roots of these tragedies, politicians pick an easy target and then pat themselves on the back for doing all they can to reduce violence among youths.
On September 18 2009 06:48 zatic wrote: Today some kid tried to cause havoc in his school with an axe and knives. Eagerly waiting for the ban WoW campaign.
does this mean if i go into a school and wreak havoc with a hello kitty pillow that the politicians will consider banning Hello Kitty Island Adventrues as well? :O
God, we live in such a stupid and aesthetic time. More blood = worse... Lol stupid ass people always think they know so much. What proof do we have that blood effect a 13 year olds mindset toward something negative? Answer: None. If someone would like to show me a study I will definitely check it out btw. I love to be proven wrong.
On September 18 2009 06:48 zatic wrote: Today some kid tried to cause havoc in his school with an axe and knives. Eagerly waiting for the ban WoW campaign.
german media/politics like to blame video games alot for violence, especially violence in school, since video games have no lobby to defend video games.
Warning: The last post in this thread is over two months old. If you bump this, you better have a good reason. Yes i do have a reason. because in Germany you can get a betakey but i hesitate because it will be the censored version. Is there any way to get the noncensored version and play it with a german Battle.net account?
On September 02 2009 04:08 zatic wrote: Original Red Alert german version had robots fighting each other! How about that.
Whatever, everyone who cares about the game will buy the English version anyway just to avoid the bad translations and German voice actors. Not to mention the retarded German hotkey layout should they change it for foreign versions again.
Quoted for the truth. Looks like I'll have to import from the UK yet again. But damn, it still do really hate it, when they do that ****.
On May 04 2010 20:24 Clamev wrote: Warning: The last post in this thread is over two months old. If you bump this, you better have a good reason. Yes i do have a reason. because in Germany you can get a betakey but i hesitate because it will be the censored version. Is there any way to get the noncensored version and play it with a german Battle.net account?
I could pick the language before downloading the client if I remember correctly. I have a normal, uncensored version and can play just fine from Germany on Euro servers.
However, if you want a (translated) German version you will have to live with less gore effects i suppose.
I could pick the language before downloading the client if I remember correctly. I have a normal, uncensored version and can play just fine from Germany on Euro servers.
yeah but it´s only beta and i do think that you can download a version wich is in english (like in wow) but will the animations be also not censored? I mean what sence does it male to usk a game from wich you can download the non censored version for it.That is why i am asking.
to clarify... germany does not censor anything: blizzard could go on, leave everything as is and just sell the thing. the non-governmental committee then slaps a seal onto the package saying "FSK 18" short for "freiwillige selbstkontrolle" - "voluntary self regulation" yes - the customer can decide for himself.
there's another committee, a governmental one, responsible for banning stuff such as swastikas when historically unnecessary (yop swastikas are banned by constitution) or if there is a strong case to be made about protecting minors. and "banning" for violence would only mean that it's on a list ("auf'm index") which then obligates vendors to check for ID, if a customer is indeed 18.
SC2 wouldn't have to fear that process - there's (still) lots of leeway and there's other, much more dangerous stuff available out there. iirc not even (any) Mortal Kombat made it onto that list.
no, blizzard is doing this all by itself. blame them. or blame the educational system for enabling localized versions.
also, stop feeding the beast -.- i haven't purchased a dubbed version in... 15 years now.. (dayum...) and i get much more value to boot: instead of just a DVD case i usually receive the good ole "box"
There you go. No censorship for Starcraft 2. Feel free to preorder from amazon.de. I'm pretty sure you will be able to play it in English too. Even if the installer won't be multilanguage you'll probably still be able to download a language pack or just get the client from an English battle.net account (at least that's how I did it for WC3).
Censorship is the worst abomination ever to reach human kind. It's up there with Religion, and other scary concepts such as American foreign politics and fish on pizzas.
Any remotely enthusiatic fan of Starcraft II will revert from buying the german version.
But I perfectly understand Blizzard's mindset in this. Censorship = no moneh ^^ No new users.
Still, in terms of a matter of principle, it's a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
Any remotely enthusiatic fan of Starcraft II will revert from buying the german version.
Actually you get a beta key and a non-censored version of the game... what's wrong about that? Languages will probably be swappable too as stated above so I don't really see an issue there (except for the UK version being about half the price).
Germany has always been very strict about what happens in media ever since the second world war. I guess it has something to do with them not wanting the rest of the world being viewed in any negative way (with regards to the nazis I'm sure).
I think it's ridicilous how even to this day and age we censor games and movies, but then I'm not affected by any censorship so I can't really say it matters much to me.
EDIT: One interesting thing is how you take out the blood in a game like L4D1/2. A game based around gore without it is just another barbie game.
On September 02 2009 04:04 FrozenArbiter wrote: So retarded
Not Blizzard's fault at all, but Germany is seriously insane when it comes to this stuff -.-
Maybe so, but really: Why risk your game to be accused of being too violent and making all the children homicidal maniacs if you can just leave out the blood, which noone will really care about anyways?
It's fine to have principles and stuff and censorship is IMHO very seldom the way to go, but do you really care enough about the game being bloody to risk an angry mob of misinformed parents to get out their torches and forks to once again rage against the gaming-community? ^^'
It's just not worth it IMHO.
If it was about nudity though - that's a whole other story! ^^'
i´ll get an english version anyway, i am about to puke when i read the german translations for most units(and dont even know if its a stalker or a sentry :D)
Blizzard is deliberately modifying their game in order to be able to sell more copies. The government doesn't force them to do anything. Even if the game would be rated as appropriate for adults only, adult people would still be able to buy it with all the blood included.
On May 06 2010 00:30 MasterFischer wrote: Censorship is the worst abomination ever to reach human kind. It's up there with Religion, and other scary concepts such as American foreign politics and fish on pizzas.
ffs... again: there is no censorship going on here.
blizzard does this completely on their own accord in order to avoid the "FSK 18" seal which has no legal ramifications whatsoever; not for vendors to check for ID, not for customers who buy it for kids, not for parents or whatever you could come up with.
On May 06 2010 00:30 MasterFischer wrote: Censorship is the worst abomination ever to reach human kind. It's up there with Religion, and other scary concepts such as American foreign politics and fish on pizzas.
Any remotely enthusiatic fan of Starcraft II will revert from buying the german version.
But I perfectly understand Blizzard's mindset in this. Censorship = no moneh ^^ No new users.
Still, in terms of a matter of principle, it's a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
There's no place for Idealism in this cold, hard world... ^^'
But really, you are complaining about a little less blood when in China there is a Police dedicated to censor THE WHOLE INTERNET and in other Parts of the world, like North Korea, cencorship is overarching every single aspect of most ppl's lives!
And you get all idealistic and angry about a game being "mildly forced" to turn down the blood a bit? xD
On May 06 2010 02:14 roemy wrote: ffs... again: there is no censorship going on here.
blizzard does this completely on their own accord in order to avoid the "FSK 18" seal which has no legal ramifications whatsoever; not for vendors to check for ID, not for customers who buy it for kids, not for parents or whatever you could come up with.
lol?
If the 18 seal had no bearing on sales, they wouldn't spend a dime of their cash modifying the game. It obviously has a detrimental effect on sales. Just because THEY censor their own product, doesn't mean the government was not involved. Do you think blizzard/activision went around polling parents in Berlin about how much gore was acceptable? And anyhow, the entire rating system is bogus. The goverment has no business telling people what they can and cannot watch. It's pretty sad the American FCC has been doing the same thing to TV and is still trying hard to break into the internet regulation game (hopefully i'm dead before that happens).
Telling people what they cannot watch necessarily allows them to narrow the choice of what they can watch, which essentially makes them the ministers of propaganda. I'd rather not go back to that era.
On May 06 2010 01:34 Fosh wrote: EDIT: One interesting thing is how you take out the blood in a game like L4D1/2. A game based around gore without it is just another barbie game.
I tried ordering uncut L4D2 at amazon.co.uk but they don't ship it to Germany anymore and I refuse to play a censored version of any game. I regret not buying the uncut version before it got indexed here.
look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true.
nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media.
if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means.
just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany"
The biggest news by far in the OP is that diablo 3 won't be released in Germany at all. Having less blood in SC2 means nothing... not getting the next game in one of the best franchises of all time is another thing.
On May 06 2010 02:36 roemy wrote: look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true.
nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media.
if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means.
just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany"
You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so.
On May 06 2010 02:36 roemy wrote: look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true.
nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media.
if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means.
just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany"
You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so.
Censorship IS going on in Germany. Deal with it.
Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers?
You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.
About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany.
Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-°
Listen man... I did extensive research on violence in computer games and the effect on adults, young people and children. The effects themselves does not in ANY way justify censorship in this scale, and the censorship going on in the oriental countries is just plain out of this world.
Fucked up individuals are gonna do fucked up things REGARDLESS of how much damn blood, violence, murders, guns or whatever there seems to exist in games, music, videoes, films.. and so on. They are a lost cause a the start of the debate, obviously some parental flaw in the upbringing or whatevs or unbalanced and dangerous environments and social ethics.
Roemy. Son. You need to deal with the fact that your country openly censors shit that would make even the most conservative christian American go, aaahhhhh HELL.. that aint tooo baadd !
Censorship in all of its forms is fucking bullshit. If you can't learn to deal with the world, and what it has to offer, and somehow know right from wrong and so son.. then you're either a fucking retard who obviously has forgotten all hopes of using that brain of yours. Hell, i've watched countless of violent shit in my youth... all sort of twisted shit.. not even REMOTELY similar to the fairytale violence going on now, and I'm perfectly functioning and sane.
Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers?
You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.
About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany.
Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-° __________________________________________________________________________________-
Listen, there is no conclusive or REAL evidence that violence in videogames have profound negative effects, it's a myth my friend. Scaretactics, politics. Don't get lured.
And I strongly disagree with you. Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence BECAUSE of the censorship going on in Germany. Why? Well they want to appeal to the broadest audience possible in germany, seems logical right? Well in order for them to able to do that, they'll have to censor their game in order for it to be approved by the GERMAN government, who enforces censorship laws..
On May 06 2010 02:53 MasterFischer wrote: Listen man... I did extensive research on violence in computer games and the effect on adults, young people and children. The effects themselves does not in ANY way justify censorship in this scale, and the censorship going on in the oriental countries is just plain out of this world.
I'm a second year psychology major currently conducting an empirical study on this topic and have read over 50 papers about media violence and the evidence is quite conclusive: Media violence leads to more violent thoughts, which leads to more violent behaviour.
With Blood clearly being something that will additionally make violent thoughts more accessible in your memory and therefore also highten the possibility of violent behaviour.
Of course it's hard to distinguish how big the effect of this (removal of the Blood in SC2) will be exactly, but you just have to start to draw the line somewhere.
Don't get my wrong - I think blaming Videogames on increased violent behaviour in today's youth is quite hypocritical, because most of the negativ effects violent video games have on people are also found in other violent media, but hey - that's how live works unfortunately. Not all to long ago it was rock'n'roll-music that was the scapegoat, then it was the TV and Movies, then it was Marylin Manson, now Videogames are to blame... Nonetheless, empirical evidence supports the general Idea...
On May 06 2010 02:36 roemy wrote: look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true.
nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media.
if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means.
just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany"
You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so.
Censorship IS going on in Germany. Deal with it.
Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers?
You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.
About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany.
Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-°
Exactly what? I'm saying censorship is becoming a world-wide issue. It's xenophobic to assume the Chinese are the only ones who are heavy-handed in applying limitations on what is suitable for the public. I've worked for years in the communications industry in my own country and abroad and I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong to assume that violent video-games or shows, movies, etc. have any sort of relatable effect on the tendencies of youth or any other sub-strata of society that isn't already pre-disposed to violence. There hasn't been a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims, dispite the fact that groups have unscrupulously promoted the idea for decades because of the popular morality movements that have come up since the 80s.
The kid loves violent video games. What happens when he handles a real automatic weapon? He fucking cries. That's what. There is NO, NONE, ZERO, relationship between violent video-games and the propensity for someone to take a human life.
On May 06 2010 02:36 roemy wrote: look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true.
nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media.
if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means.
just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany"
You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so.
Censorship IS going on in Germany. Deal with it.
Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers?
You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.
About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany.
Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-°
Exactly what? I'm saying censorship is becoming a world-wide issue. It's xenophobic to assume the Chinese are the only ones who are heavy-handed in applying limitations on what is suitable for the public. I've worked for years in the communications industry in my own country and abroad and I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong to assume that violent video-games or shows, movies, etc. have any sort of relatable effect on the tendencies of youth or any other sub-strata of society that isn't already pre-disposed to violence. There hasn't been a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims, dispite the fact that groups have unscrupulously promoted the idea for decades because of the popular morality movements that have come up since the 80s.
READ THIS:
On May 06 2010 02:53 MasterFischer wrote: Listen man... I did extensive research on violence in computer games and the effect on adults, young people and children. The effects themselves does not in ANY way justify censorship in this scale, and the censorship going on in the oriental countries is just plain out of this world.
I'm a second year psychology major currently conducting an empirical study on this topic and have read over 50 papers about media violence and the evidence is quite conclusive: Media violence leads to more violent thoughts, which leads to more violent behaviour.
With Blood clearly being something that will additionally make violent thoughts more accessible in your memory and therefore also highten the possibility of violent behaviour.
Of course it's hard to distinguish how big the effect of this (removal of the Blood in SC2) will be exactly, but you just have to start to draw the line somewhere.
Don't get my wrong - I think blaming Videogames on increased violent behaviour in today's youth is quite hypocritical, because most of the negativ effects violent video games have on people are also found in other violent media, but hey - that's how live works unfortunately. Not all to long ago it was rock'n'roll-music that was the scapegoat, then it was the TV and Movies, then it was Marylin Manson, now Videogames are to blame... Nonetheless, empirical evidence supports the general Idea...
Ok I'll post it again as nobody seems to have read it: The German version of Starcraft 2 will NOT be censored. Apart from the language it will be IDENTICAL to the English / every other version.
Bisher sind alle Versionen, die wir der USK zur Prüfung gegeben haben identisch mit der Englischen und Amerikanischen Version. Die deutsche Version des Spiels wird sich voraussichtlich bis auf die Sprache nicht von den anderen Versionen unterscheiden.
lol I love how the options in the OP poll are only like apathy and intense anger. And to be honest, they probably represent the TL.net opinions pretty well haha.
On May 06 2010 02:36 roemy wrote: look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true.
nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media.
if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means.
just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany"
You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so.
Censorship IS going on in Germany. Deal with it.
Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers?
You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.
About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany.
Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-°
Exactly what? I'm saying censorship is becoming a world-wide issue. It's xenophobic to assume the Chinese are the only ones who are heavy-handed in applying limitations on what is suitable for the public. I've worked for years in the communications industry in my own country and abroad and I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong to assume that violent video-games or shows, movies, etc. have any sort of relatable effect on the tendencies of youth or any other sub-strata of society that isn't already pre-disposed to violence. There hasn't been a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims, dispite the fact that groups have unscrupulously promoted the idea for decades because of the popular morality movements that have come up since the 80s.
On May 06 2010 02:53 MasterFischer wrote: Listen man... I did extensive research on violence in computer games and the effect on adults, young people and children. The effects themselves does not in ANY way justify censorship in this scale, and the censorship going on in the oriental countries is just plain out of this world.
I'm a second year psychology major currently conducting an empirical study on this topic and have read over 50 papers about media violence and the evidence is quite conclusive: Media violence leads to more violent thoughts, which leads to more violent behaviour.
With Blood clearly being something that will additionally make violent thoughts more accessible in your memory and therefore also highten the possibility of violent behaviour.
Of course it's hard to distinguish how big the effect of this (removal of the Blood in SC2) will be exactly, but you just have to start to draw the line somewhere.
Don't get my wrong - I think blaming Videogames on increased violent behaviour in today's youth is quite hypocritical, because most of the negativ effects violent video games have on people are also found in other violent media, but hey - that's how live works unfortunately. Not all to long ago it was rock'n'roll-music that was the scapegoat, then it was the TV and Movies, then it was Marylin Manson, now Videogames are to blame... Nonetheless, empirical evidence supports the general Idea...
I've read those "countless" reports aswell. And most of them are biased as hell, those that objectively conclude that there MIGHT be violent effects from playing video games are probaly right, however, it is abit of a stretch to censor the games, because the amount of violent behaviour displayed by SANE, and NORMAL people have been minimal at best. Also, alot of the effects are INconclusive, because there are simply too many factors effecting the formula, to really say IF in actuality games provoke enough violence to make any difference.. and if so, HOW.
Should we ban all violent games, because SOME, and i'm talking very very few people, have preexisting mental problems, who have nothing to do with gaming or entertainment, but MIGHT, be influnced by violence in games to an extent?
I wanted to get the game from the UK anyway... There were talks that the German version might have to be censored for over an year. Let's see if it really happens or not.
On May 06 2010 02:36 roemy wrote: look... you can tell the chinese about their oppressive government, americans about their aristoratic-like lobbyism, greeks about their corruption and although true, you'll still hurt whatever pride is left and won't be greeted as a liberator or whatever it is you're trying to accomplish.
this is different in that the accusations of censorship aren't even true.
nor does it have "a detrimental effect" on sales. the only occasion this will matter is when another student runs amok in his (former) school and the police find a "killer game" on his HDD which will then be hyped out of proportion by commercial media.
if that's too much for blizzard to handle, by all means.
just don't go around pointing fingers about "censorship going on in germany"
You can go on and bury your head in the sand if you like. Fact-is, the game is censored in your country. If you really do have such nationalist pride that you can continue to spout xenophobic nonsense about the rest of the world and claim that there is no such thing as censorship in your own country, you're completely blind to reality. Blizzard didn't self-censor their game without outside encouragement to do so.
Censorship IS going on in Germany. Deal with it.
Ever thought about the fact that there is real and conclusive evidence that violence in videogames has negative effects on the violent behaviour of ppl, especially children and teenagers?
You can't compare freedom of speech and stuff like that to making content age-appropriate, besides, Blizzard CHOSE to tone down the violence to sell more copies of the game in germany, which has absolutely nothing to do with censorship.
About totally putting games/movies on the index is another topic and I don't agree with stuff like that at all, but it has nothing to do with SC2 in Germany.
Besides, I didn't feel the slightest undertone of "nationalist pride" or "xenophobia" in roemy's post, whilst your own post was basically nothing but exactly that. -.-°
Exactly what? I'm saying censorship is becoming a world-wide issue. It's xenophobic to assume the Chinese are the only ones who are heavy-handed in applying limitations on what is suitable for the public. I've worked for years in the communications industry in my own country and abroad and I can tell you that you're absolutely wrong to assume that violent video-games or shows, movies, etc. have any sort of relatable effect on the tendencies of youth or any other sub-strata of society that isn't already pre-disposed to violence. There hasn't been a shred of scientific evidence to back up those claims, dispite the fact that groups have unscrupulously promoted the idea for decades because of the popular morality movements that have come up since the 80s.
READ THIS:
On May 06 2010 02:53 MasterFischer wrote: Listen man... I did extensive research on violence in computer games and the effect on adults, young people and children. The effects themselves does not in ANY way justify censorship in this scale, and the censorship going on in the oriental countries is just plain out of this world.
I'm a second year psychology major currently conducting an empirical study on this topic and have read over 50 papers about media violence and the evidence is quite conclusive: Media violence leads to more violent thoughts, which leads to more violent behaviour.
With Blood clearly being something that will additionally make violent thoughts more accessible in your memory and therefore also highten the possibility of violent behaviour.
Of course it's hard to distinguish how big the effect of this (removal of the Blood in SC2) will be exactly, but you just have to start to draw the line somewhere.
Don't get my wrong - I think blaming Videogames on increased violent behaviour in today's youth is quite hypocritical, because most of the negativ effects violent video games have on people are also found in other violent media, but hey - that's how live works unfortunately. Not all to long ago it was rock'n'roll-music that was the scapegoat, then it was the TV and Movies, then it was Marylin Manson, now Videogames are to blame... Nonetheless, empirical evidence supports the general Idea...
I've read those "countless" reports aswell. And most of them are biased as hell, those that objectively conclude that there MIGHT be violent effects from playing video games are probaly right, however, it is abit of a stretch to censor the games, because the amount of violent behaviour displayed by SANE, and NORMAL people have been minimal at best. Also, alot of the effects are INconclusive, because there are simply too many factors effecting the formula, to really say IF in actuality games provoke enough violence to make any difference.. and if so, HOW.
Should we ban all violent games, because SOME, and i'm talking very very few people, have preexisting mental problems, who have nothing to do with gaming or entertainment, but MIGHT, be influnced by violence in games to an extent?
It's Hypocrisy
I'm not talking about reports, I'm talking about scientific studies which are by definition objective and therefore unbiased. Also, the effects aren't inconclusive but clearly tested and those many other factors that could be involved carefully ruled out by a good design of the study.
I highly recommend searching those Papers and reading them, if you are interested in real scientific evidence and not only media-hyped make-believe and poorly designed convenience-studies.
Susan Villani (2001), Impact of Media on Children and Adolescents: A 10-year Review of the Research. Research Update Review, April, 392-401
L. Rowell Huesmann, (2007). The Impact of Electronic Media Violence: Scientific Theory and Research. Journal of Adolescent Health, 41, 6-13
C.A. Anderson, A.J. Benjamin Jr., B.D. Bartholow, (1998), Does the Gun pull the Trugger? Automatic Priming Effects of Weapon Pictures and Weapon Names, Psychological Science, Vol. 9, NO. 4 JULY, 308-314
Anderson, A., Berkowitz, L., Donnerstein, E., Huesmann, L., Johnson, J., Linz, D., Malamuth, N., Wartella, E. (2003). The Influence Of Media Violence On Youth. Psychological Science In The Public Interest 4 (3). S. 81-110
Anderson, C., Shibuya, A., Ihori, N., Swing, E., Bushman, B., Sakamoto, A., Rothstein, H., Saleem, M. (2010) Violent Video Game Effects on Aggression, Empathy, and Prosocial Behavior in Eastern and Western Countries: A Meta-Analytic Review. Psychological Bulletin, 136 (2). S. 151–173
I have lot's more, but those are the main ones cited in the study conducted by my colleagues and me.
So here is the evidence - take it or leave it. ^^'
But as said before - I DO think it's hypocritical as well and that ppl tend to make it easy for themselves...
In most of Europe including the UK, where the PEGI rating system is used, SC2 got a 16 rating, and as it stands now, it will remain unchanged and get a 12 rating in Germany (see Opossum's post above). I have no idea why Blizz has to sell to 12 year olds in Germany while settling for a 16 rating all over the rest of Europe, but it's funny how this situation gives us a discussion about censorship in Germany. (I don't even want to mention the 18 rating in Korea ... ooops.)
I've been pissed off about games being cut in my country many times. I buy imports or use uncut patches. As an adult, I don't want nor need the government to tell me what games I can play. But this is about children. Do you want it to be legal to sell hardcore porn and horror movies to children? If not, you have to draw the line somewhere. True censorship, i.e. not letting the public get access to certain content, has never been at issue with SC2, because this is just about an age requirement (every adult can freely buy it, talk about it, write about it, sell it etc.), plus the content in question were some death animations, and therefore nothing political. Using the term censorship here is therefore a little bit of a stretch. And whoever seriously makes nazi analogies when talking about changing some death animations in a strategy game to make it more suitable to 12 year olds should just humbly apologize to all nazi victims and those of dictatorship violence and oppression everywhere, get some history lessons and until then shut the fuck up. You are about as wrong and off as you can get.
EPT
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