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[G][D] The Most Obnoxious TvZ Allin of All Time - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
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Harbinger631
Profile Joined September 2010
United States376 Posts
February 20 2013 19:44 GMT
#21
This is awesome! I theorycraft that 12 or so banelings w/ a ling follow-up will shut it down, and that the Zerg's 2 base economy will overpower eventually.
Bagi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6799 Posts
February 20 2013 19:46 GMT
#22
On February 21 2013 04:33 emc wrote:
and it's still guess work at this point because we haven't seen a pro ZvT where the Z scouts it perfectly and reacts appropriately. It could be another WoL beta reaper build where the zerg can see it coming, but is always on the back foot of terran transitions. We just don't know until we see it unfold in pro play. and frankly, this build scares me because as mentioned here:

It won't be comparable to WOL reaper builds, as those were just fundamentally broken with no zerg early unit being able to match the range + mobility of the reaper. Worst case scenario is that this will force zergs to prebuild a roach warren + a couple of roaches if they do not scout a terran expanding early on.

It might be OP in the sense that terrans will always get an econ lead unless the zerg gambles in the early game. Will have to see what openers zerg players can come up with.
Aquila-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
516 Posts
February 20 2013 20:00 GMT
#23
I dunno wouldnt a zerg with actual skill just make 5 spines and win?
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
February 20 2013 20:02 GMT
#24
On February 21 2013 05:00 Aquila- wrote:
I dunno wouldnt a zerg with actual skill just make 5 spines and win?

Make 5 spines, Terran is actually making a medivac with their hellbats, elevators them into your main, and you lose.

I think roaches, not spines, are the correct answer to a hellbat all-in.
AnomalySC2
Profile Joined August 2012
United States2073 Posts
February 20 2013 20:10 GMT
#25
Make roaches instead of drones only?
Harbinger631
Profile Joined September 2010
United States376 Posts
February 20 2013 20:12 GMT
#26
On February 21 2013 05:10 AnomalySC2 wrote:
Make roaches instead of drones only?


I think banelings would be the way to go. Bonus damage, and the splash would help kill repairing SCVs/other hellbats.
Kvassten
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden159 Posts
February 20 2013 20:17 GMT
#27
Can you heal hellbats with medivacs and repair them with SCVs at the same time to make that a double heal?
algorithm0r
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada486 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 20:22:45
February 20 2013 20:21 GMT
#28
Someone tried this on me last night. I stopped it unscouted with my standard opening (burrow roach push).

Here is a rough guide of how I stopped it:

9 Overlord
15 hatch
15 pool
17 gas
17 overlord
(2 queens when hatch/pool pop)
19-21 warren (whenever you got 150 mins and not too late...)
23-25 gas w/ 2 drones
burrow w/ 100 gas
5-8 roaches + queens + burrow + 2 spines

The spines were clutch and necessary. I dropped them when I scouted the reactor hellion opening to protect what I hoped was mass droning... when I saw them push out I just queued roaches instead of drones.

Note: Burrow can really help you keep your queens/roaches alive, but you may want to cancel it if you are late on gas to pump more roaches.
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
February 20 2013 20:28 GMT
#29
Banelings are hard counter to this imo, unless terran somehow makes a perfect split.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Sircoolguy
Profile Joined May 2012
United States81 Posts
February 20 2013 20:32 GMT
#30
Something I have done TvZ was a 2 fact all in similar to your build set up except I have gone for tanks, marines, hellbats. So I got my second gas a tad earlier and hit a bit later. Worked out pretty well if you get a tech on the first factory to increase the tank count, even if they build spines and roaches.
cmor
Profile Joined February 2013
4 Posts
February 20 2013 20:39 GMT
#31
On February 21 2013 05:28 ALPINA wrote:
Banelings are hard counter to this imo, unless terran somehow makes a perfect split.


it takes 4 banelings to kill a non upgraded hellbat and 5 banelings to kill a hellbat with armor upgrade, can banelings really counter hellbats (seriously asking)
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
February 20 2013 20:54 GMT
#32
On February 21 2013 05:39 cmor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 05:28 ALPINA wrote:
Banelings are hard counter to this imo, unless terran somehow makes a perfect split.


it takes 4 banelings to kill a non upgraded hellbat and 5 banelings to kill a hellbat with armor upgrade, can banelings really counter hellbats (seriously asking)


Of course, as long as their are clumped and on creep. Problem is that without scouting zerg usually does not get such an early baneling nest for no reason.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
February 20 2013 20:57 GMT
#33
On February 21 2013 05:54 ALPINA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 05:39 cmor wrote:
On February 21 2013 05:28 ALPINA wrote:
Banelings are hard counter to this imo, unless terran somehow makes a perfect split.


it takes 4 banelings to kill a non upgraded hellbat and 5 banelings to kill a hellbat with armor upgrade, can banelings really counter hellbats (seriously asking)


Of course, as long as their are clumped and on creep. Problem is that without scouting zerg usually does not get such an early baneling nest for no reason.

Just a little bit of splitting makes banelings pretty cost inefficient against hellbats in my opinion. If you are trading 4 banelings for 2-3 hellbats, that's 200/100 for 200-300 minerals from the Terran. And if you are spending your gas on banelings, that means you are probably going to rely on lings to clean up the rest, but even with a full surround lings get absolutely trashed by hellbats.

I still think roaches are a superior response, since they can kite hellbats, rather than blow themselves up trying to destroy them.
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
February 20 2013 20:59 GMT
#34
On February 21 2013 03:40 Umpteen wrote:
For the time-poor amongst us, I present the condensed version of the rest of this thread:

Hellbats imba!
No they're not!
Maybe a slight nerf...
Blizzard are fucking morons if they change this...
Techlab...
Powerful early aggression will increase variety in the game and restore viewer numbers, just look at 4-gate in PvP...
Broken...
Well if you're going to make nothing but drones until 70 supply what do you want to happen?
Zergs can attack at 7:00 too...
Blizzard are fucking morons if they don't change this...
This is what happens when you design something inelegantly...
You don't know jack about 20th century military ordnance.


Hahaha, I like you <3
Get off my lawn, young punks
Lakona
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada110 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-02-20 21:16:06
February 20 2013 21:15 GMT
#35
Sick feedback doods.

I did some testing vs comp and discovered the most bullshitty ways to execute this bullshit, added my results to the OP.

Have to agree that I definitely do not think that banes are the answer to this. Super cost inefficient, and making that many banes blindly that early in the game will put you SO far behind if the T happens to be doing anything other than this one obscure build. Just makes no sense.

One thing I haven't tested vs live opponents yet is the "macro" version that I have added to OP. Will do tomorrow. I think it has a lot of potential...
TheSambassador
Profile Joined May 2010
United States186 Posts
February 20 2013 21:18 GMT
#36
What is the actual range on the hellbat? Liquipedia says 2, but I kept hearing Khaldor say 3 in the recent GSTL HotS tourney.
ElMeanYo
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1032 Posts
February 20 2013 21:18 GMT
#37
I've been getting overlord speed with my first 100 gas every game vs Terran just to see if they are going some kind of early hellbats. I'm so scared of hellbats... they are such an OP unit vs Zerg.
“The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.” ― Theodore Roosevelt
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
February 20 2013 21:24 GMT
#38
On February 21 2013 06:18 TheSambassador wrote:
What is the actual range on the hellbat? Liquipedia says 2, but I kept hearing Khaldor say 3 in the recent GSTL HotS tourney.


its 2
Harbinger631
Profile Joined September 2010
United States376 Posts
February 20 2013 21:38 GMT
#39
On February 21 2013 06:15 Lakona wrote:
Sick feedback doods.

I did some testing vs comp and discovered the most bullshitty ways to execute this bullshit, added my results to the OP.

Have to agree that I definitely do not think that banes are the answer to this. Super cost inefficient, and making that many banes blindly that early in the game will put you SO far behind if the T happens to be doing anything other than this one obscure build. Just makes no sense.

One thing I haven't tested vs live opponents yet is the "macro" version that I have added to OP. Will do tomorrow. I think it has a lot of potential...


You wouldn't be getting banelings blind, if by 6 min a player doesn't see/scout an expo, he should be preparing for an all-in. It is cost-inefficient, but Zerg is on 2 base and is able to be cost-inefficient.
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
February 20 2013 21:40 GMT
#40
On February 21 2013 06:38 Harbinger631 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2013 06:15 Lakona wrote:
Sick feedback doods.

I did some testing vs comp and discovered the most bullshitty ways to execute this bullshit, added my results to the OP.

Have to agree that I definitely do not think that banes are the answer to this. Super cost inefficient, and making that many banes blindly that early in the game will put you SO far behind if the T happens to be doing anything other than this one obscure build. Just makes no sense.

One thing I haven't tested vs live opponents yet is the "macro" version that I have added to OP. Will do tomorrow. I think it has a lot of potential...


You wouldn't be getting banelings blind, if by 6 min a player doesn't see/scout an expo, he should be preparing for an all-in. It is cost-inefficient, but Zerg is on 2 base and is able to be cost-inefficient.

But what do banelings do for you that roaches do not? Remember the push could come in hellion form as well, in which case your banes are going to have a whole lot of trouble even connecting with the hellions.
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