EPTRight now i see the reapers openings too strong in TvT, so blizz is going to nerf the reapers in some way imo
[D] find solutions to deal with reaper in TvT - Page 2
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Topin
Peru10112 Posts
Right now i see the reapers openings too strong in TvT, so blizz is going to nerf the reapers in some way imo | ||
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ijw2bagahp
China5 Posts
I find out that if I build supplies on the edge of the cliff, reapers can't jump the cliff anymore. So they can never get in. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9433 Posts
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WetSocks
United States953 Posts
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Hetz
196 Posts
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On December 11 2012 21:45 avilo wrote: TvT is now ZvZ. You blind guess what your opponent is making much like in ZvZ sometimes there's a guessing game involved with the larva mechanic "did he build drones? or did he build 30 zergling/baneling?" Now it's, "did he go reaper? did he go anti-reaper with marauder? did he go reaper but play defensive reaper? did he go defensive marauder? do you blind counter all of that and go fast banshee?" And if they 1 rax expand with no refinfery you just laugh. Uhm. Or you just do the old fashioned 1 rax rauder fe, build a bunker in your main, put your expo CC by your main and laugh because there's nothing that any reaper build can do against it? You're complaining about a completely new change in the metagame. Reapers are an awesomely fun unit. TvT needs more awesomely fun units. Worst comes to worst, just reduce the range on them to 4 or something so they're forced to engage queens and marines in order to beat them. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
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SSVnormandy
France392 Posts
I played reaper a lot the past few days in zvT and TvT. First i want to say that reaper play is awesome making the first 10-12 minutes so intense ! That's starcraft ! I didn't feel like that for a long time ! So fun! So first i want to say that the turbo reactor factory play -> 2/4 helions expand and switch to tank production works very well vs 2 rax reaper / 3 rax reaper factory. and i think you are a little bit ahead in term of macro play but i'm not sure since i'm platinium and we are not so good at this level huh . anyway you get a great tech compared to the guy investing in reaper and reaper upgrade and in a lot of maps you can control space fine. But in some maps such as howling peaks or korhal city i found that more difficult and i sometimes invested on WM. For the reaper play i always goes 3rax (or more ahahaha) factory with 2 gas to get the speed upgrade. For the begining, i found that more efficient to stack reapers in my base and counter the reaper aggression of my opponent then attack. For the first 1v1 reaper i get out 1 scv when the ennemy reaper will probably come and i attack with my scv and my own reaper so the 1v1 reaper is no more luck and to be sure to win the fight. I always put my reaper+scv not so close to the cliff to be sure my opponent don't see it until he jumped up. If my opponent did the same (keeping his reaper in his base) i wait for the speed upgrade to attack with lot's of reapers(i get factory after my 2nd rax). the difficulty when u go reaper in my level is to know when u can stop reaper and focus on macro. Because stoping too early if your opponent is massing reaper will make you die and investing too much on reapers while your opponent tech to tank or WM to counter reaper will put you in a really bad situation. I found reaper more fun in TvZ as this play force the zerg to go a combination of the following : 1) lots of queens 2) roach 3) spines i found the micro vs queen and so very very entertaining when i usually was sleeping the first 6 minutes waiting my hellions come into play. I feel like reaper need a little nerf like reducing the range to allow queens/marauders/marines to be more effective against them. But please blizzard let the regen mechanic and speed as it is . It is sooooooooooo fun ! | ||
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Thezzy
Netherlands2117 Posts
If he makes more Reapers than you, you can easily build Marauders (or more Reapers) and if he doesn't you can scout or possibly punish. Reapers are both good defensively and offensively, whereas opening with a Marauder is mostly defensive. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
You just have to stay ahead of the meta-game, which is shifting quite fast. First it was single rax reaper into regular play, which I could quite easily beat with triple rax reapers. Now most people do triple rax reapers or something similar, so I play defensively and go for cloakshees. | ||
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Bodzilla
Australia472 Posts
all you need. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
Alternatively, if you want a fast tech route and have good map control, u still open with 13 gas, use the rax for constant marine production and build 1 bunker at a common reaper path. After obtaining 4-5 rines with 1 rine in the bunker, use that rax for reactor production whilst building your factory. In that time they should have around 3 reapers which should not be a problem with a bunker and FOCUS firing. Get two mines asap and plant them on common ledges and that should effectively end all reaper harass. If they combine it with dropships (yes it is possible to bypass mines with them), you will need to actively scout and replant those mines, ideally u'd have 6-7 mines which should 1 shot medivacs or groups of reapers if he decides to all-in. A neat trick to confuse your opponents is to unburrow your mines when he scans and sees them, move them out of range and then REPLANT them in the location he scanned. | ||
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madespecifically
39 Posts
You can also try to open 1 rax into expo into 2 more rax marine tank, but I find this opening significantly harder to execute. All in all, the terran who opens reapers must do a lot of damage to not be behind, and in my level of play, he rarely does. I have been opening 3 rax reaper till gm with variable success but after a lot of games have come to the conclusion 1 rax concussive marauder is far stronger and can create opportunity for very strong timing pushes. So, no, reapers are not a problem at all in TvT. To be honest, they should be buffed maybe in a way, maybe an upgrade for health or buff in build time so they are viable vs the other races. This thread, among many other threads on tl, discusses a problem that just isn't there. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
Just because you can counter it, doesn't mean there isn't a problem imo. Yes obviously you can counter reaper play, but the entire terran match-up now revolves around reaper openings. Even if you don't open yourself with reapers, almost always the enemy will. And the funny part? They are still pretty much useless against toss. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On December 18 2012 00:19 Sissors wrote: If the reaper guy also does single rax he isn't anything behind, if anything in front of you, and he has complete map control. He doesn't need to do any damage, and actually knows what you are doing: He knows he is save for a bit and can expand faster. Also if he went 2 rax reapers he is barely behind since reapers cost less minerals, so he can still make his expansion fast enough. Just because you can counter it, doesn't mean there isn't a problem imo. Yes obviously you can counter reaper play, but the entire terran match-up now revolves around reaper openings. Even if you don't open yourself with reapers, almost always the enemy will. And the funny part? They are still pretty much useless against toss. You have a point in stating that tvts are pigeon holed to at least 1 person doing the same reaper build. This is the beauty though, if they're so predictable, then all you have to do is perform a build that effectively deals with that opening and help you gain an advantage. As to how it goes about, only you can figure that out. | ||
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madespecifically
39 Posts
On December 18 2012 00:19 Sissors wrote: If the reaper guy also does single rax he isn't anything behind, if anything in front of you, and he has complete map control. He doesn't need to do any damage, and actually knows what you are doing: He knows he is save for a bit and can expand faster. Also if he went 2 rax reapers he is barely behind since reapers cost less minerals, so he can still make his expansion fast enough. Just because you can counter it, doesn't mean there isn't a problem imo. Yes obviously you can counter reaper play, but the entire terran match-up now revolves around reaper openings. Even if you don't open yourself with reapers, almost always the enemy will. And the funny part? They are still pretty much useless against toss. If you watch any pro streams (dragon, for example) or play at gm level, you will notice that reapers are almost not used at all. it's marauder micro wars into marauder hellion or some mech mine or bio mech transition. No reapers whatsoever. My last 3 terran opponents were all gm and none of them made a reaper. So, no, the TvT doesn't revolve at all around reapers as they are very open to timing pushes. For example, 3 rax marauder will just outright kill you if you play one rax reaper expand, even if you scout it with your first reaper. | ||
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Novacute
Australia313 Posts
On December 18 2012 00:53 madespecifically wrote: If you watch any pro streams (dragon, for example) or play at gm level, you will notice that reapers are almost not used at all. it's marauder micro wars into marauder hellion or some mech mine or bio mech transition. No reapers whatsoever. My last 3 terran opponents were all gm and none of them made a reaper. So, no, the TvT doesn't revolve at all around reapers as they are very open to timing pushes. For example, 3 rax marauder will just outright kill you if you play one rax reaper expand, even if you scout it with your first reaper. Dragon was also very cunning in hiding his marines to fake an early expo. He's one smart dragon. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On December 18 2012 00:53 madespecifically wrote: If you watch any pro streams (dragon, for example) or play at gm level, you will notice that reapers are almost not used at all. it's marauder micro wars into marauder hellion or some mech mine or bio mech transition. No reapers whatsoever. My last 3 terran opponents were all gm and none of them made a reaper. So, no, the TvT doesn't revolve at all around reapers as they are very open to timing pushes. For example, 3 rax marauder will just outright kill you if you play one rax reaper expand, even if you scout it with your first reaper. What you're observing is actually just blind luck guessing games. The reason you open marauder is to blind counter reaper openings. What if the opponent does not open reaper but opens 1 rax FE? They're ahead...etc. TvT is a guessing game early game right now for both players. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12032 Posts
On December 18 2012 10:25 avilo wrote: What you're observing is actually just blind luck guessing games. The reason you open marauder is to blind counter reaper openings. What if the opponent does not open reaper but opens 1 rax FE? They're ahead...etc. TvT is a guessing game early game right now for both players. I wouldn't say opening marauders puts you that much behind, you get ahead in gas quicker meaning a quicker factory for 1 and in most if not all games you'll be able to scout whether or not they're going reapers as long as you SCV scout. | ||
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gronnelg
Norway354 Posts
Let's hope that changes :/ | ||
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