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I am not currently in the beta, so my understanding of HOTS is based on player streams and speculation. I am a master random player in WOL.
The Oracle
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8V6hD.jpg)
With the latest patch to the beta, most criticism seems to be directed at the oracle and its lack of a defined role. I believe the biggest problem with the oracle is its complete lack of utility; its offensive spells are tailored for very specific tasks, giving little room for the protoss player to find new and interesting strategies with this unit.
The main offenders in this case are entomb and siphon, as Revelation seems to have enough general applications to be a useful spell (as well as giving Protoss stargate detection) The general idea of these spells seems to be keeping the enemy in his base, using attacking units at home to break entombed mineral lines and fight off siphoning oracles. However, the threat of these spells currently seems to be very underwhelming, as players often ignore entombed mineral lines and the threat of an oracle slowly killing a structure at home will likely not cause an army to come running back. And if the opponent does decide to "just go and kill you", the oracle offers no combat utility to assist in your defense or at least stall his push, making midgame stargate play as impractical as it is in WOL. In addition to this, their ease of use and lack of utility do nothing to increase the skill cap for protoss (shift+click entomb) making them fairly uninteresting to control and fight against.
To fix these issues, I am suggesting two possible replacement spells for entomb and void siphon: phase field and psionic disruption.
Phase Field: Generates a field around the oracle under which all enemy structures (or only static defenses if too strong) are put into stasis, making them immune to damage and unable to use. The oracle can still move while the field is in play, and any structures which leave the field are quickly freed while any structures which enter the field are quickly put into stasis.
Energy: 75-125 or 25-50 with energy drain (like ghost cloak)
Radius: 3-5
This is inspired by a similar ability in an earlier HOTS build called phase shift, where the player could phase out a single structure which would be effectively removed from the game for a certain period of time. I loved this idea particularly because of its harass potential when combined with phoenixes, a potentially very micro intensive mix. The problem with phase shift was it was too easy to execute and the defending player was helpless until the spell wore off, allowing for some game breaking uses (such as phasing out a spire or spawning pool).
Think phase shift
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EdVj5.jpg)
Mixed with guardian shield
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YVyRn.jpg)
This version puts the oracle itself in danger, giving the defending player the option to focus down the oracle with attacking units, and the protoss player the ability to micro in and out of range. The oracle, or an accompanying phoenix, will have to tank a few shots from static defenses before coming into range, making it so that the protoss players efforts to harass will have to scale with the defending player's investment in defense. I'd like discussion to focus on whether or not this would be a spell which is fun to use and promotes good gameplay, rather then balance. Remember, things can be easily tweaked such as what buildings it effects and whether or not the phased building still counts in the players tech tree.
Psionic Disruption: Creates a psionic field around the target which damages all nearby units. Deals no damage to the target itself. Spell will likely last 15-25 seconds
Energy: 75-125
Casting Range: 7-9
Radius: .5-2(plus target size)
Damage: deals 5-20 DPS to any target in range
A spell similar to irradiate from Starcraft 1
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WfIPP.jpg)
This is a spell inspired by irradiate on the science vessel, which coincidentally controls very similarly to the oracle. Unlike irradiate, it would deal no damage to the target unit itself (which would likely be too strong in SC2 anyway) which would allow it to reasonably effect all unit types, rather then just biological. This spell would give the oracle a tremendous amount of utility, both in worker harass and army harass, without adding much direct combat value to the protoss deathball. It also forces micro from the opposing player.
Here are some specific uses and benefits for both of these spells that I have thought of so far. Let me know if you think of any more  .
Phase Field:
-disrupting enemy production of all races
-halting enemy upgrades of all races
-force extra static defense or keeps army in base (big threat)
-combine with phoenixes for worker harass
-nullify unattended spine walls
Psionic Disruption:
-Worker harass(and eraser trick)
-disrupt on medivacs vs a 10:30 timing
-disrupt to ward off mutalisks
-disrupt on clusters on siege tanks (forces unsiege or massive damage, encourages splitting tanks)
-disrupt on colossus forces them off deathball
-force splitting and micro from the opponent
If just one of these spells was considered, I would be thrilled. This is my first post on TL, so let me know if I did anything wrong. If you like either of these spells, it would be awesome if you made a post over at the beta forums. Thanks for reading, and feedback is appreciated.
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This is cool, but I think Phase Shift-Field is a pretty powerful idea; it would definitely need to be on the range 3 end of the radius.
Irradiate 2.0 sounds awesome and might be able to break up deathball vs deathball in PvP. However, I think Blizzard is really too anxious to give another damaging ability to protoss. Another key point would be whether it had friendly fire, and I think it's important that it should.
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Phase field would indeed be strong, but the oracle is also a very low hp unit, and a spell this strong would make the opposing player take the oracle seriously. Whatever value is a good radius, a balance team would have to consider both how much static defense an oracle could phase out to make it effective vs how many production buildings an oracle could phase out without being too strong.
As for Psi disruption, I agree that the spell should have friendly fire, as it would encourage interesting micro from both sides. At the pro level, I don't think the damage itself will influence the course of a battle too much since a good player will quickly shuffle out the disrupted unit. Thanks for the feedback.
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"They already gave the Oracle one Corruptor spell, so why not give it another one?" LOL.
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how about giving sentry Hallucination for oracle?
currently the sentry needs to reserve energy for FF and Guardian shield, we rarely see Hallucinations.
and hallucinations feel more oracle than sentry anyway.
if oracle has it, then it kinds of give it a later game use as hallucination caster. I see this as very potential for new styles.
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I just posted this in another thread but I would like to know your opinions as well.
I have been thinking about two abilities for a while now
It would be an aoe slow, and silence
the aoe slow could be used to support air facilitate escape catch enemy units that are out of position ect the list goes on the silence would prevent cloak, medivac heal, stim, charge blink, burrow, transfusion, again the list goes on this would be an effective support tool and soft detect
The negatives I can see with this is that it could be brought into the deathball but the hope is to adjust it to help with raiding parties and stargate based plays
?Chrono Syphon?
The other ability as a direct alternative for entomb. The oracle would "steal time" from nearby enemy units or structures, and it would slowly reduce the speed at with a unit/ structure takes action acting as a reverse to chrono boost it would slow and eventually stop workers from mining or a structure from producing units. Though units and structures would quickly revert back to normal after the oracle moves out of range.
This would allow for the indirect damage as well as interesting micro opportunities from both sides while you try to keep as many units and structures effected while not taking to much damage and an undefended base would eventually just stop mining if not dealt with
Entomb vs Chrono Syphon
Entomb -
Entomb is binary
If you get the ability off you have guarantied damage
Rather boring and uninteresting
Chrono Syphon -
Skilled players get a higher payoff
Damage is not guarantied
Can stall upgrades, unit production, tech
High risk, High reward
Much more interesting to watch/use
Hopefully I wasn't unclear above feedback is appreciated
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United States4883 Posts
On October 07 2012 11:53 AzraelArchontas wrote:
I just posted this in another thread but I would like to know your opinions as well.
I have been thinking about two abilities for a while now
It would be an aoe slow, and silence
the aoe slow could be used to support air facilitate escape catch enemy units that are out of position ect the list goes on the silence would prevent cloak, medivac heal, stim, charge blink, burrow, transfusion, again the list goes on this would be an effective support tool and soft detect
The negatives I can see with this is that it could be brought into the deathball but the hope is to adjust it to help with raiding parties and stargate based plays
?Chrono Syphon?
The other ability as a direct alternative for entomb. The oracle would "steal time" from nearby enemy units or structures, and it would slowly reduce the speed at with a unit/ structure takes action acting as a reverse to chrono boost it would slow and eventually stop workers from mining or a structure from producing units. Though units and structures would quickly revert back to normal after the oracle moves out of range.
This would allow for the indirect damage as well as interesting micro opportunities from both sides while you try to keep as many units and structures effected while not taking to much damage and an undefended base would eventually just stop mining if not dealt with
Entomb vs Chrono Syphon
Entomb -
Entomb is binary
If you get the ability off you have guarantied damage
Rather boring and uninteresting
Chrono Syphon -
Skilled players get a higher payoff
Damage is not guarantied
Can stall upgrades, unit production, tech
High risk, High reward
Much more interesting to watch/use
Hopefully I wasn't unclear above feedback is appreciated
I don't like this idea. We actually don't need any abilities in the entire game that take 30 seconds to be useful, we need abilities that are useful immediately as SC2 is all about speed and reaction time.
I like the OP suggestions. The use of phase shift on static defenses seems to be the perfect utility for protoss, who just has a lot of difficulty breaking through a few spine crawlers and/or spores (i.e. 6 zealots vs. 2 spines+queen = no real damage done). The idea of irridate is an old idea, but we saw that it worked well in BW, and maybe an updated or more interesting version of it is what the oracle needs. Not to mention that it deals with the bullshit muta/ling plays a little better than going for 6 phoenixes with an upgrade that will be fairly useless against the eventual tech switch to roaches or ultras.
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I like the idea behind Phase Field, but I think an interesting way to implement something like that would be a toggle skill (pretty much like the actual Ghost Cloak works) that allows the Oracle to deploy this "attack mode" until it runs out of energy or toggles it off.
I'd say it should be a beam like attack that auto-targets a single enemy building in rage (short range) and the player should be able to switch target manually (pretty much like any attack unit). I'm not sure if it should be able to channel this while moving, but it seems like an interesting option: That would allow the Oracle to "dance" back and forth and between the enemy's sim city to avoid taking fire. That way it will require active micro from both sides.
Also, being a single target spell means that the Protoss player will need a higher Oracle count to disable a fortified static defense line.
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Phase field:
This will even further destroy defender's advantage during protoss attacks, since warpgates puts reinforcements right at the front door, now your opponent cant even train units if you did a stargate timing.
psi disruption:
excellent idea, more aoe in the game will discourage box and 1-A, it also gives some entertaining harass options.
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-Phase Field-
I've been asking for a Phase Shift back (limited to static defences) for a long time, but your Phase Field is even more awesome!
The possibility to phase out production buildings may still be too much, but the area effect is much weaker than the "old" single target, so they might give it a try. For sure it does wonders supporting Phoenixes/Rays/DTs.
-Psionic Disruption-
The spell all around sounds pretty good. Since has so many implications with the rest of the units i can't say more, but i like it.
-Extra-
I still think Oracles should have something that makes them usefull when they have no energy, like a base "attack" that doesn't do any damage. For example stealing cargo from workers (or something like the new syphon). This way the Oracles are microable all game long.
Anyway, really good suggestions! Your Oracle would be fun to play with 
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Russian Federation216 Posts
I only wait when blizz understand - pure harrasing units for harras do not work
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I like it because I think the oracle absolutely needs a utility in the protoss army to be viable. I presume that the idea behind it is to give Protoss the option of going stargate or robo - especially in pvt. If we are going to spend 300 gas early on stargate/oracle, that means we either have to sacrifice sentries and/or upgrades, and since defence against early marine pushes is pretty thin as it is, I don't think that an early oracle is a safe option at the moment. I liked the idea of giving it cloak - that would have certainly helped, but something like disruption might be good as well.
I don't quite understand why blizzard is so reluctant to risk potetntially gamebreaking changes for protoss, while they are very liberal in making quite obviously gamebreaking changes to terran time and time again.
I think this is certainly something worth considering, and would be most definitely more useful than siphon - although I would really like to try or see an oracle rush pvt with siphon on the wall while setting up a contain. 180min. per minute is potentially really good if you can hold their ramp for a while and might discourage wall-ins which could in return be benefitial for early scouting pvt which still feels kind of flaky imo.
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I personally don't like the first idea, the Phase Field, I think it's a bit unnecessary.
But I really like the 2nd idea. Have to say I really like how it can disrupt medivacs.
Imo it sounds kinda like Static huh
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Cloaking field and mini radius recall!!
Str8 forward warp in Harrass!! Enough of the gimmick!
Can probably add a weak entomb version to add value when not recalling or cloaking. Make small amount of Protoss units efficient in harassing. Good synergy with warp prisim.
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Its great ideas like these here, and many others I have seen, that are needed to rescue the Oracle from the depths of boringness and dullness.
Phase Field, It creates good synergies with other units that could be great for harrasing and forcing a reaction out of your opponent. It is very rare that you will see Protoss skirmishing with a small amount of units but with the addition of Phase Field, this may become more common.
Phase Disruption I also like, especially for the 10:30 stim bio push, it may just take away the reliance on force fields, which I'm sure would be a welcome among many protoss players.
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Thanks for the feedback everyone!
@MasterCynical Remember, this version actually has to hover over top of the production building in order to disable it, so it would be fairly easy for the defending player to focus the low hp oracle down or at least ward it off. Think late game pvz, where the zerg player will be amassing lots of spines, and a lot of the spine wall will be unattended. That's an area i think this kind of spell could improve the quality of immensely, although I could be wrong.
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Combat Precognition:
Units gain additional damage equal to double their current attack (including upgrades).
Mana cost: 50MP
Duration: 30s
Oracle grants the son of Aiur sight beyond sight, able to perceive attacks and openings before they happen, allowing them to exponentially increase the damage to those who oppose Aiur.
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On October 08 2012 02:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Combat Precognition:
Units gain additional damage equal to double their current attack (including upgrades).
Mana cost: 50MP
Duration: 30s
Oracle grants the son of Aiur sight beyond sight, able to perceive attacks and openings before they happen, allowing them to exponentially increase the damage to those who oppose Aiur.
Shakuras would be more fitting for the Oracle's theme
Anyway, I dont like the idea of double DPS... I think we Protoss have pretty good fire power already, such a spell would be way overkill if allowed with Psi Storm or Thermal Lances. Reinforcing the Death Ball model.
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The unit just needs some sort of use in combat. Pure harass units don't work as they are just too one dimensional. The oracle just feels too much as a unit you make 1 or 2 of, harass a little bit and don;t interact much with other stuff. Like a sidegame you do to gain some advantage but doesn;t matter that much.
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On October 08 2012 02:50 OskO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 02:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Combat Precognition:
Units gain additional damage equal to double their current attack (including upgrades).
Mana cost: 50MP
Duration: 30s
Oracle grants the son of Aiur sight beyond sight, able to perceive attacks and openings before they happen, allowing them to exponentially increase the damage to those who oppose Aiur. Shakuras would be more fitting for the Oracle's theme Anyway, I dont like the idea of double DPS... I think we Protoss have pretty good fire power already, such a spell would be way overkill if allowed with Psi Storm or Thermal Lances. Reinforcing the Death Ball model.
I'm sure the appropriate nerfs can prevent it from being imba. A nerfed example would be only applicable to melee unit's attack, meaning only zealots and DTs benefit from it.
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On October 08 2012 02:52 Markwerf wrote:
The unit just needs some sort of use in combat. Pure harass units don't work as they are just too one dimensional. The oracle just feels too much as a unit you make 1 or 2 of, harass a little bit and don;t interact much with other stuff. Like a sidegame you do to gain some advantage but doesn;t matter that much.
Indeed, I like the idea of it becoming some sort of "dispeller" since it wouldnt sum up with the Protoss firepower directly but will be able to bring valuable support. A small AoE that removes harmful status (like the phase shield was intended to do) could work for this porpuses: Dispelling concussive shells would allow a small Protoss force a better chance to retreat from a bad engagement against early bio. Removing the Thor's Cannon stun to save a key unit. Removing Infestors FG, maybe damaging summons like Loctus, ITs and Hallucination?, Dispelling FFs?, I dont know.
Something between those lines would be really interesting with the proper Energy Requisite to avoid it becoming a cheap way to nullify every mistake. With a high Energy cost it would need good management and one will think twice before wasting a shot of it.
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@Osko An altered phase shield is definitely something to consider, as it would definitely lead to some awesome techniques (such as keeping warp prisms unfungaled) However, like the old phase shield, you would have to deal with the problem of its synergy with the death ball.
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On October 08 2012 02:52 Markwerf wrote:
The unit just needs some sort of use in combat. Pure harass units don't work as they are just too one dimensional. The oracle just feels too much as a unit you make 1 or 2 of, harass a little bit and don;t interact much with other stuff. Like a sidegame you do to gain some advantage but doesn;t matter that much.
That's part of the problem I'm trying to solve with these suggestions. A spell like disrupt will have a ton of utility for both harassing the enemy economy, harassing their army and delaying their pushes. On the other hand, phase field will likely be much more threatening then siphon or entomb, giving the opponent much more reason to send attacking units to dispel the oracle rather then "just go and kill you" which seems to be the problem with the oracle now.
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I thought of one potential issue with phase field if it affected all building types, the ability to shut down a planetary fortress. It still might be easy enough to ward of the oracle with a few AA units, but just in case, it would probably be wise to have this ability not shut down CC's, nexi, or hatcheries, which seems a simply enough fix.
I'm not in the beta, so if anyone really likes either of these spells, it would be awesome if you could post it over at the HOTS forums on battle net. I'd also love to hear some feedback from zerg and terran players, and whether or not these spells would be fun to micro against.
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I actually like the idea of phase field a lot. I will post my thoughts and what I think should be expanded on in a new thread.
(EDIT: Just registered, so I will just post my idea here and see what you guys think and will create a thread later.)
Re-tweaked Void Siphon: Chrono Rift
I like the overall idea of the Void Siphon in its current form, but I do not think it adds enough depth to the Oracle. Gaining 3 minerals/sec is a low reward for a high risk. This reworked idea is a mix of ideas from Contaminate, a "reverse" Chronoboost and the current Void Siphon which I think will expand the Oracle's harass options and expands the level of risk/reward based how players interact with each other.
New Spell: Chrono Rift
-Channeled spell on a target building. Short ranged (ex: 3-5). Costs 50 energy and 5 additional energy per sec. Moving the Oracle cancels the spell.
-Halt production time of a unit/upgrade being made on a building. Drain 1 energy from building per second. Also drain 1 second of production time per second. If production time reaches 0, cancel the production of that unit/upgrade. Opponent gets his resources refunded and you also gain those resources as your own.
Example) Opponent has a Robo building a Colossus at 10/75. Oracle has 100 energy and is left uninterrupted to use Chrono Rift for 10 seconds. The building time is halted and eventually decreased to 0/75. The Colossus is cancelled and the opponent is refunded 300/200 and you gain 300/200 resources as well. (Note: In PvP this also introduces a dynamic where Chronoboost can partially counteract Chrono Rift.)
For Zerg, the Oracle can also target individual larva and morphing units. Targeting a Hatchery only affects building queens and upgrades. For Terran, tech labs can also be targeted and reactored buildings affect both units in production.
(Note: The numbers and restrictions can be adjusted for balance. The overall idea and design is more important.)
Why I think this works:
Similar to the current Void Syphon, this spell promotes the Oracle to target more than just the mineral line. Instead of minerals/sec , there are multiple levels of rewards based on the success of the harass. In addition, the idea of stealing time as harass, which is already show with entomb, is expanded on with heavier consequences for opponents who do not position units properly to respond to harass with the risk of exposing your Oracle in the open.
Depending on what building you target, the reward of gaining resources VS delaying production time VS delayed energy gain changes as well. The longer Oracle is left unattended in the opponent's base on vulnerable buildings the more options the Oracle gains and the higher the reward. Example) Targeting Pathogen Glands from an Infestation Pit to delay the time it takes for infestors to spawn with a ready to use fungal VS a Colossus from a Robo to harvest resources VS an Orbital Command to prevent a possible scan for a DT harass.
Players who have strong knowledge of an opponent's exact build order timings (ex: pros players) can also get more mileage from Chrono Rift by gaining a higher chance of harvesting resources by targeting a unit/upgrade just as it starts. All of this would be in-game dependent which only makes the Oracle a more dynamic unit over the course of the whole match.
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What reasoning (if any) did blizzard give for dropping that spell that makes units immune to offensive spells (i forgot the name)? I felt like that had excellent high level potential.
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All though i think that these ideas are great, i cant imagine blizzard implementing the irridate spell. They seem to be designing the oracle around a harass unit that doesn't actually kill any workers, they seem to want to keep that idea.
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I posted about the Oracle in another thread. I'll repost it here:
The main issue with the Oracle is that it is a dedicated "harass" unit. It would be better if it were an effective unit that could harass well, and do other stuff (either direct combat or support). Worse, it's primary function is just utterly boring. Entomb does nothing in terms of spectator excitement; and players, understandably, dislike using such a dull ability (and unit). As I've said before, it is also very un-Protoss. I'd rather see the smouldering remains of scvs or watch drones burn. Entomb is not a cool idea. It is an insipid ability. The Oracle had its knees chopped from the get go.
Secondarily, it was meant to encourage SG play. The main issue with SG play is that all SG tech is, by and large, ineffective. If Blizzard really wanted to see more SG play, then buff the Phoenix, VR and Carrier. So, even if the Oracle did turn out to be this awesome unit, which it has not, I don't think we would see a resuscitation of Protoss air play. They can work and re-work the Oracle but Protoss players will still generally go Robo/Twilight because you get good units out of those tech paths.
I don't have any suggestions. Tbh, I'd rather they scrap the whole silly idea of a dedicated harass unit out of SG. Instead, for example, lower Graviton beam on the Phoenix to 25, give VR range and speed buffs at FB tech, implement Nony's Carrier suggestions and lower the build-time. I don't like the horrible Tempest either, but I'm willing to wait and see with that unit.
tldr: scrap the Oracle, buff SG tech.
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On October 09 2012 05:26 HighTempura wrote:
I actually like the idea of phase field a lot. I will post my thoughts and what I think should be expanded on in a new thread.
(EDIT: Just registered, so I will just post my idea here and see what you guys think and will create a thread later.)
Re-tweaked Void Siphon: Chrono Rift
I like the overall idea of the Void Siphon in its current form, but I do not think it adds enough depth to the Oracle. Gaining 3 minerals/sec is a low reward for a high risk. This reworked idea is a mix of ideas from Contaminate, a "reverse" Chronoboost and the current Void Siphon which I think will expand the Oracle's harass options and expands the level of risk/reward based how players interact with each other.
New Spell: Chrono Rift
-Channeled spell on a target building. Short ranged (ex: 3-5). Costs 50 energy and 5 additional energy per sec. Moving the Oracle cancels the spell.
-Halt production time of a unit/upgrade being made on a building. Drain 1 energy from building per second. Also drain 1 second of production time per second. If production time reaches 0, cancel the production of that unit/upgrade. Opponent gets his resources refunded and you also gain those resources as your own.
Example) Opponent has a Robo building a Colossus at 10/75. Oracle has 100 energy and is left uninterrupted to use Chrono Rift for 10 seconds. The building time is halted and eventually decreased to 0/75. The Colossus is cancelled and the opponent is refunded 300/200 and you gain 300/200 resources as well. (Note: In PvP this also introduces a dynamic where Chronoboost can partially counteract Chrono Rift.)
For Zerg, the Oracle can also target individual larva and morphing units. Targeting a Hatchery only affects building queens and upgrades. For Terran, tech labs can also be targeted and reactored buildings affect both units in production.
(Note: The numbers and restrictions can be adjusted for balance. The overall idea and design is more important.)
Why I think this works:
Similar to the current Void Syphon, this spell promotes the Oracle to target more than just the mineral line. Instead of minerals/sec , there are multiple levels of rewards based on the success of the harass. In addition, the idea of stealing time as harass, which is already show with entomb, is expanded on with heavier consequences for opponents who do not position units properly to respond to harass with the risk of exposing your Oracle in the open.
Depending on what building you target, the reward of gaining resources VS delaying production time VS delayed energy gain changes as well. The longer Oracle is left unattended in the opponent's base on vulnerable buildings the more options the Oracle gains and the higher the reward. Example) Targeting Pathogen Glands from an Infestation Pit to delay the time it takes for infestors to spawn with a ready to use fungal VS a Colossus from a Robo to harvest resources VS an Orbital Command to prevent a possible scan for a DT harass.
Players who have strong knowledge of an opponent's exact build order timings (ex: pros players) can also get more mileage from Chrono Rift by gaining a higher chance of harvesting resources by targeting a unit/upgrade just as it starts. All of this would be in-game dependent which only makes the Oracle a more dynamic unit over the course of the whole match.
I've seen a few similar ideas like this floating around, although this one is unique in that you get the money if you cancel whats building, which would give the player a much more significant reward for succeeding. (although im not sure how it would work lore wise ) I assume the opponent would be unable to cancel while the spell is channeling.
While it is creative, I would still have concerns about its utility in keeping the protoss player alive if the opponent decided to attack . Also, it doesn't seem like it would be a micro inducing or exciting spell, although I could be wrong.
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On October 09 2012 05:57 ThirdDegree wrote:
What reasoning (if any) did blizzard give for dropping that spell that makes units immune to offensive spells (i forgot the name)? I felt like that had excellent high level potential.
The spell was phase shield, which did have a lot of interesting potential. However, it had too much natural synergy with the death ball, something blizzard was explicitly trying to avoid, although it could possibly be tweaked to avoid this.
On October 09 2012 06:04 TuckFexas wrote:
All though i think that these ideas are great, i cant imagine blizzard implementing the irridate spell. They seem to be designing the oracle around a harass unit that doesn't actually kill any workers, they seem to want to keep that idea.
I'm hoping this version or the spell can still satisfy their requirements, since this Psi Disrupt does not guarantee damage unlike Irradiate.
On October 09 2012 06:40 aZealot wrote:
I posted about the Oracle in another thread. I'll repost it here:
The main issue with the Oracle is that it is a dedicated "harass" unit. It would be better if it were an effective unit that could harass well, and do other stuff (either direct combat or support). Worse, it's primary function is just utterly boring. Entomb does nothing in terms of spectator excitement; and players, understandably, dislike using such a dull ability (and unit). As I've said before, it is also very un-Protoss. I'd rather see the smouldering remains of scvs or watch drones burn. Entomb is not a cool idea. It is an insipid ability. The Oracle had its knees chopped from the get go.
Secondarily, it was meant to encourage SG play. The main issue with SG play is that all SG tech is, by and large, ineffective. If Blizzard really wanted to see more SG play, then buff the Phoenix, VR and Carrier. So, even if the Oracle did turn out to be this awesome unit, which it has not, I don't think we would see a resuscitation of Protoss air play. They can work and re-work the Oracle but Protoss players will still generally go Robo/Twilight because you get good units out of those tech paths.
I don't have any suggestions. Tbh, I'd rather they scrap the whole silly idea of a dedicated harass unit out of SG. Instead, for example, lower Graviton beam on the Phoenix to 25, give VR range and speed buffs at FB tech, implement Nony's Carrier suggestions and lower the build-time. I don't like the horrible Tempest either, but I'm willing to wait and see with that unit.
tldr: scrap the Oracle, buff SG tech.
I agree on many points, but what do you think of my suggestions? I think they can bring a lot of utility to the unit, and blizzard probably won't be cutting the oracle anytime soon.
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These suggestions are as good as any. They must do something to make stargate more viable. If stargate becomes as viable as robo, all P matchups will be more fun to watch. Add offensive capabilities to the oracle or scrap it completely; change the tempest and carrier; and make observers able to be produced from the nexus after a tier 2 structure is built.
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On October 08 2012 02:52 Markwerf wrote:
The unit just needs some sort of use in combat. Pure harass units don't work as they are just too one dimensional. The oracle just feels too much as a unit you make 1 or 2 of, harass a little bit and don;t interact much with other stuff. Like a sidegame you do to gain some advantage but doesn;t matter that much.
Its sad that the reaper has better combat potential
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I feel like they could directly borrow the "chromo rift device" concept from the single player "Piercing the Shroud" mission for the oracle.
Chrono Rift Device
Prototype device that alters time. Anything trapped inside of the area will suffer penalties to its movement speed and attack speed.
Maybe tweak it so it's just attack speed, just movement speed, or some sort of compounding effect that becomes more detrimental the longer a unit stays in the area of effect.
They probably don't want to borrow concepts from the single player, but it might be an interesting effect, and possibly a viable worker line harass too.
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On October 09 2012 12:08 rhcp123 wrote:I've seen a few similar ideas like this floating around, although this one is unique in that you get the money if you cancel whats building, which would give the player a much more significant reward for succeeding. (although im not sure how it would work lore wise ) I assume the opponent would be unable to cancel while the spell is channeling. While it is creative, I would still have concerns about its utility in keeping the protoss player alive if the opponent decided to attack . Also, it doesn't seem like it would be a micro inducing or exciting spell, although I could be wrong.
Think of it as time travel. You are phasing the unit out of existence before it was created
Removing the option to cancel would make the spell stronger and make more sense, but taking away your opponent's options like that makes them feel kind of helpless like forcefield and fungal. Letting the opponent have the option to cancel could open up more back and forth interactions though.
Let's say they cancel. As long as the oracle is nearby they can't start producing again for fear that if you use the spell exactly as they start building they can't react in time to cancel. Even if they can react, constantly cancelling production becomes apm consuming and wastes time on something that could have been produced long ago. It also could also just be a waste of energy since at worst it's a weaker contaminate. All depends on tweaking the numbers.
I don't think the oracle can provoke base races if that's what you mean as it still lacks any offensive utility (imo shouldn't seeing blizzard wants to innovate new types of harass). I'd say the mothership core would be more suited for defense. What the oracle can do is give time and resources to prepare for that attack. As for the micro/exciting factor, I'd say that it creates the same suspense as when a medivac drop snipes a forge with upgrade is about to finish. Becomes a question of are you willing to risk possibly losing your oracle for that reward.
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I haven't read most of the posts in this thread so I'm going to assume that what I am going to post is original.
Please read my comment and respond!
Considering the fact that the Oracle is currently made into a pure harass unit due to its abilities:
-Revelation: Reveal units within target area
-Void Siphon:channels a beam at an enemy structure that deals 3 damage and harvests 3 minerals every second until canceled
-Entomb: Create mineral shields over patches within target area. Duration of shields without being destroyed 45 seconds.
I want to direct the attention to Entomb, since I believe that the ability could be tweaked to be able to be used during army battles. I want you to understand where my idea will be coming from since my idea comes from the Dark Archon's ability "Maelstrom", which ability is to freeze all organic units in a small radius of the target location for a short duration(about 7 seconds).
Now, if Entomb could be tweaked to redirect the ability to affect a certain type of units, it could immobilize workers and army too. The time duration would have to be reasonable so it could work as a harass against workers and short enough not to determine completely army engagements. Also I think it would be reasonable to have the units affected by the spell invunerable to damage until time duration like the Arbiter's Stasis Field.
My only worry would be that Blizzard would consider my idea too BroodWar like.
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On October 09 2012 12:49 TheLunatic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 02:52 Markwerf wrote:
The unit just needs some sort of use in combat. Pure harass units don't work as they are just too one dimensional. The oracle just feels too much as a unit you make 1 or 2 of, harass a little bit and don;t interact much with other stuff. Like a sidegame you do to gain some advantage but doesn;t matter that much. Its sad that the reaper has better combat potential
Sidegames you do to gain an advantage = the midgame small battles blizzard is trying to force.
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I do like the "Chrono-Rift" idea. While they probably could fix "Void Siphon" by tweaking the numbers, it would be pretty cool, if a little bit of "Phase Shift" would be added. Draining energy seems like an unncessary bonus though. There are not that many buildings where it would be useful and additional energy can always be given by the MsC more effectively. Also, the more complicated a spell gets, the harder it will become to balance and the weaker its different aspects would become.
Making single Entomb-nodes castable one at a time might be one possibility to give the spell more flexiblility. One problem with the idea is, that the nodes would probably have to be quite fragile, since they would then basically be 25 energy-force fields. Which would make them less effective against worker lines. On the other hand, you would be able to mess up gas-mining with just one or two nodes.
As far as not dying is concerned a positional hp-/energy-aoe-drain could be used to delay attacks. The numbers I imagine would be like 3 hp/energy per second, but the aoe and duration would both be bigger than is the case for spells currently in the game. Cost would be 75-100 energy.
Edit: I just had an idea, that would make the latter spell a lot more interesting. Let's say, that it would damage both friendly and hostile units and structures in the area, but would also act as an energy field, till it collapses 5-10 seconds later. This, let's say "Unstable Energy Field", could then also be used in emergencies.
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Am i the only one, who does not like Revelation?
When you go Stargate you have fine harassment, untill too many Spores/Queens/Missile Turrets are up.
You also have good scouting. What really lack is your army composition.
Being able to detect is good, but i'd rather give detection to the Sentry, when it uses Guardian Shield or something, it is called a "Sentry."
So the Oracle should give, continual harassment and needed assistance in the army.
My suggestion would be, to have Entomb, along with the Stasis(anti-building,) this allows continual harass possibility, with either Phoenix/Voids or even DT's, this could also be a spell that the Phoenix could possibly have, being a energy unit.
And then the Oracle should also have the Cloaking Field, it would just be a great addition. I feel like the Mothership will be scrapped, as it stands now.
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EDIT: I feel like the suggestion I made is too akin to Brood War (which was to turn Oracle into a Mobile "Shield Battery") and so are some other suggestions taking from BW. Personally I love the Chrono-harass ideas, similar to Corruption, as I feel like Blizzard isn't trying to make the Oracle a damaging unit.
Oracle is in a tough spot, how do you help StarGate units. Tempest, Carrier and Pheonix all have really different targeting systems, speeds the list goes on...Tempest Range can be 15 (22 upgraded). Carrier Range is 8 (12 when on a lease range). Pheonix Range is 4 (6 upgraded). This idea is going to seem really strange but I feel like it would help with Air synergy and tactics, giving Protoss both a versatile offensive idea as well as a "professional level" defensive/micro tactic in the Air without Buffing or Healing for a "Death Ball" scenario.
Tempest/Carrier and Pheonix recieve a "Blink to Oracle Spell" which could debate the Cooldown/Range. Now 8 (Like Stalker) would be overkill allowing Tempest and Pheonix to blink together if the Oracle is placed "perfectly" inbetween (when both are upgraded ) but I feel like 4-5 could likely be more balanced. Giving a Micro tactic for Shield play as well as a nifty "unit range modifier" that has both offensive and defensive capabilities.
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The "Psionic Disruption" (Irradiate) ability is a nice idea. If we can't get the cloaking field back, then I'd say irradiate is the next best choice.
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If Blizzard really wants the Oracle to do absolutely 0 damage (which I still disagree with), why not just make it function like a normal harass unit? But instead of damage coming out, the target gets rooted for Xs (small AoE or rapid fire single target). The new spell would be like Purify, temporarily enabling Oracle with an autoattack that can root units. It's equivalent to Entomb because it denies mineral opportunity, can actually affect gas too, and has uses within battle. It can also be micro'd against small numbers of defenders just like any other harass unit.
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On October 09 2012 21:20 spetznova wrote:
The "Psionic Disruption" (Irradiate) ability is a nice idea. If we can't get the cloaking field back, then I'd say irradiate is the next best choice.
Thanks for the feedback. While blizzard may be hesitant to implement a BW like spell, something like psi disrupt really feels perfect for the oracle, and i think would solve a lot of the issues it is currently facing.
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On October 09 2012 21:53 Cloak wrote:
If Blizzard really wants the Oracle to do absolutely 0 damage (which I still disagree with), why not just make it function like a normal harass unit? But instead of damage coming out, the target gets rooted for Xs (small AoE or rapid fire single target). The new spell would be like Purify, temporarily enabling Oracle with an autoattack that can root units. It's equivalent to Entomb because it denies mineral opportunity, can actually affect gas too, and has uses within battle. It can also be micro'd against small numbers of defenders just like any other harass unit.
I like this idea, combine Ensnare's effect with Acid Spore's mechanic. Give the Oracle an attack like the Corsair (splash and high rate of fire) and it'd be able to quickly slow down a large number of units. Have it do something like an 18% reduction in movement speed and attack rate (or mining rate in the case of workers) with each attack with a maximum stack of 4 debuffs on a unit (overall this is ~45% reduction in both) that lasts say, 20s from the last time a unit is hit.
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I think, that Blizzard is already on the right way to give the Oracle
1.flexibility in harass.
2.usefulness in support.
While "Phase Shield" has been cut, "Void Siphon" seems like a good step into the right direction, as far as 1. is concerned. Sure, most people have a low opinion of Siphon, but I think, that's mostly a numbers-issue. Nevertheless, I think "Chrono Rift" (by HighTempura, if I'm not mistaken) is better in offering more choice in targets, as well as a better risk-reward-ratio.
On the other hand, since "Phase Shield" has been cut, there is no support spell on the Oracle anymore. This should be fixed as fast as possible. Being able to choose how to harass is good, but without something to support an early-/midgame army, it doesn't matter much.
What I'm trying to say is,that addressing 2. in an appropriate way, would make the Oracle a safer choice, while possibly also solving issues with long-term Stargate-play. Personally I'm still in favour of the idea I stated before.
Unstable Energy Field: An area-of-effect spell that drains hitpoints and energy, but also acts as a temporary Energy-field. Energy-cost 75-100, huge area-of-effect, long duration, 2-3 hp/energy-drain per second. Theoretically, it has four different uses:
1.Additional defensive line (buying time or creating favourable fighting conditions)
2.Emergency energy field
3.Positional
4.Splash damage (possibly useful against low-hp targets, discouraging the death ball)
Edit: Haha, just realized, that this could be used against worker-lines to great effect. I guess it might still be ok, because of the relatively short duration. If it would just force a short pull from the mineral line, it shouldn't be too serious of an issue.
At the moment I'm in favour of the following Oracle-spells:
1.Entomb (possibly revamp to allow for more diversity in usage)
2.Revelation
3.Chrono Rift (instead of Void Siphon, possibly without the energy drain)
4.Unstable Energy Field
Let me know what you think.
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Psionic Disruption seems like a great idea, but...
If Blizzard wants the Oracle to do 0 damage, then I'm thinking they don't want it to be able to any direct damage and kill units on its own.
However, what if it was something like this:
Psionic Disruption: Creates a psionic field around a target friendly ground unit which damages all nearby ground units. Deals no damage to the target itself.
This way the Oracle won't be able to deal damage or kill units on its own, but in combination with ground forces it can. Maybe some of you would say that "ewww, that sucks". But think about it for a second. These limitations would allow it to have a low energy cost (say 50-75) and possibly high damage (and maybe a secondary effect). It demotes deathball play (for both you and your opponent), and I can foresee some interesting builds and plays with it, such as:
- Early Zealot/Oracle harass, Oracle arrives first and throws down an Entomb, and when your zealot arrives you can give it Psionic Disruption. Could destroy mineral lines if opponent is not careful.
- Early single Zealot/Oracle defense against lings giving you the option not to invest lots of gas into sentries for force fields, but instead focus on air units.
- Got a couple of stalkers and one of them gets surrounded? Give it a Psionic Disruption and force the opponent to retreat or focus other units... or see his units evaporate
- Blink a single stalkers with Psionic Disruption into the enemy forces or mineral line!
- Oracle/Warp Prism combo, warp in a couple of units in his base and throw Psionic Disruption on them on them.
Pros:
- Demotes deathballing for both players!
- Build diversity!
- Protoss harass!
- Protoss defense without sentries/cannons!
- Difficult choices! (Save energy for entomb or psionic disruption?)
- An alternative to obersevers: Take out cloaked and burrowed ground units without necessarily revealing them, just walk next to them!
Early Counters:
- Terran: Bunkers, marine micro, marauders.
- Zerg: Spine Crawlers, queens, roaches
- Protoss: Cannons, stalkers
Possible secondary effects:
- The former phase shield effect, but only on the targeted unit. Want to save those colossi from being fungalled/abducted etc? Bring oracle for Psionic Disruption, but no deathball play since you have to spread them out, or they damage your own units! Could also make zealots counter marauder concussive shells, or help single units escape marauders.
- Could give the unit additional armor, allowing a first line of Psionicly Disrupted zealots to survive longer. Should not stack with Guardian Shield (or just rework Guardian Shield which is a pro-deathball ability anyway).
Possible renaming (since it could only affect friendly units):
- PDS: Psionic Disruption Shield
- PSA: Psionic Storm Armor
- FA: Force Armor
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The Oracle the OP describes sounds much more fun to play with and deal with. Let's have it!
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On October 10 2012 19:24 Acemore wrote:Psionic Disruption seems like a great idea, but... If Blizzard wants the Oracle to do 0 damage, then I'm thinking they don't want it to be able to any direct damage and kill units on its own. However, what if it was something like this: Psionic Disruption: Creates a psionic field around a target friendly ground unit which damages all nearby ground units. Deals no damage to the target itself. This way the Oracle won't be able to deal damage or kill units on its own, but in combination with ground forces it can. Maybe some of you would say that "ewww, that sucks". But think about it for a second. These limitations would allow it to have a low energy cost (say 50-75) and possibly high damage (and maybe a secondary effect). It demotes deathball play (for both you and your opponent), and I can foresee some interesting builds and plays with it, such as: - Early Zealot/Oracle harass, Oracle arrives first and throws down an Entomb, and when your zealot arrives you can give it Psionic Disruption. Could destroy mineral lines if opponent is not careful. - Early single Zealot/Oracle defense against lings giving you the option not to invest lots of gas into sentries for force fields, but instead focus on air units. - Got a couple of stalkers and one of them gets surrounded? Give it a Psionic Disruption and force the opponent to retreat or focus other units... or see his units evaporate - Blink a single stalkers with Psionic Disruption into the enemy forces or mineral line! - Oracle/Warp Prism combo, warp in a couple of units in his base and throw Psionic Disruption on them on them. Pros:- Demotes deathballing for both players! - Build diversity! - Protoss harass! - Protoss defense without sentries/cannons! - Difficult choices! (Save energy for entomb or psionic disruption?) - An alternative to obersevers: Take out cloaked and burrowed ground units without necessarily revealing them, just walk next to them! Early Counters:- Terran: Bunkers, marine micro, marauders. - Zerg: Spine Crawlers, queens, roaches - Protoss: Cannons, stalkers Possible secondary effects:- The former phase shield effect, but only on the targeted unit. Want to save those colossi from being fungalled/abducted etc? Bring oracle for Psionic Disruption, but no deathball play since you have to spread them out, or they damage your own units! Could also make zealots counter marauder concussive shells, or help single units escape marauders. - Could give the unit additional armor, allowing a first line of Psionicly Disrupted zealots to survive longer. Should not stack with Guardian Shield (or just rework Guardian Shield which is a pro-deathball ability anyway). Possible renaming (since it could only affect friendly units): - PDS: Psionic Disruption Shield - PSA: Psionic Storm Armor - FA: Force Armor
Hmmm, a combination of Disrupt and Phase shield could be VERY interesting... (disrupt on warp prism?)There are also a number of other possible extra buffs that a spell could provide to the targeted unit, such as additional health. Though if it was just Disrupt to friendly ground, then it probably wouldn't be enough to warrant its use. Also, why would it only affect ground units, and not air?
Still, I feel like since my version of psi disrupt still deals no damage to the actual target, it technically means that it doesn't guarantee damage, which might enough for blizzard to consider applying it to a "dedicated harass" unit like the oracle. It would definitely give the oracle a great deal of extra utility, something it desperately needs right now
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The oracle should cast air forcefields to make skytoss viable
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I think the oracle doesn't need to be harass based, I think it's going to have to evolve into a unit that supports your army. Let's say you make a stargate and 1 oracle and send that oracle to the enemy base, then a cloaked banshee comes... you now can't use that oracle for harass at all, and must use it for detection, so it's almost a complete waste IMO to give it harass potential when it should be army support like an arbiter.
I LOVED the idea that it could act as an arbiter with a cloaking field, to me that felt very protoss, instead of a stupid ugly big momma ship that is completely vulnerable, easy to target and there can only be one on the field.
Leave the stargate harass to phoenix, they are fast, can lift workers for physical damage, and they've served their purpose pretty well in PvZ. They weren't nearly as effective in PvT like they are in PvZ, but I think now that toss has an oracle and a MsC, I think going phoenix in PvT will actually be doable now that they have those types of units to support against bio stimmed timing attacks, which is what stargate was always weak to.
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EPT
