|
I am not currently in the beta, so my understanding of HOTS is based on player streams and speculation. I am a master random player in WOL.
The Oracle
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8V6hD.jpg)
With the latest patch to the beta, most criticism seems to be directed at the oracle and its lack of a defined role. I believe the biggest problem with the oracle is its complete lack of utility; its offensive spells are tailored for very specific tasks, giving little room for the protoss player to find new and interesting strategies with this unit.
The main offenders in this case are entomb and siphon, as Revelation seems to have enough general applications to be a useful spell (as well as giving Protoss stargate detection) The general idea of these spells seems to be keeping the enemy in his base, using attacking units at home to break entombed mineral lines and fight off siphoning oracles. However, the threat of these spells currently seems to be very underwhelming, as players often ignore entombed mineral lines and the threat of an oracle slowly killing a structure at home will likely not cause an army to come running back. And if the opponent does decide to "just go and kill you", the oracle offers no combat utility to assist in your defense or at least stall his push, making midgame stargate play as impractical as it is in WOL. In addition to this, their ease of use and lack of utility do nothing to increase the skill cap for protoss (shift+click entomb) making them fairly uninteresting to control and fight against.
To fix these issues, I am suggesting two possible replacement spells for entomb and void siphon: phase field and psionic disruption.
Phase Field: Generates a field around the oracle under which all enemy structures (or only static defenses if too strong) are put into stasis, making them immune to damage and unable to use. The oracle can still move while the field is in play, and any structures which leave the field are quickly freed while any structures which enter the field are quickly put into stasis.
Energy: 75-125 or 25-50 with energy drain (like ghost cloak)
Radius: 3-5
This is inspired by a similar ability in an earlier HOTS build called phase shift, where the player could phase out a single structure which would be effectively removed from the game for a certain period of time. I loved this idea particularly because of its harass potential when combined with phoenixes, a potentially very micro intensive mix. The problem with phase shift was it was too easy to execute and the defending player was helpless until the spell wore off, allowing for some game breaking uses (such as phasing out a spire or spawning pool).
Think phase shift
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EdVj5.jpg)
Mixed with guardian shield
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/YVyRn.jpg)
This version puts the oracle itself in danger, giving the defending player the option to focus down the oracle with attacking units, and the protoss player the ability to micro in and out of range. The oracle, or an accompanying phoenix, will have to tank a few shots from static defenses before coming into range, making it so that the protoss players efforts to harass will have to scale with the defending player's investment in defense. I'd like discussion to focus on whether or not this would be a spell which is fun to use and promotes good gameplay, rather then balance. Remember, things can be easily tweaked such as what buildings it effects and whether or not the phased building still counts in the players tech tree.
Psionic Disruption: Creates a psionic field around the target which damages all nearby units. Deals no damage to the target itself. Spell will likely last 15-25 seconds
Energy: 75-125
Casting Range: 7-9
Radius: .5-2(plus target size)
Damage: deals 5-20 DPS to any target in range
A spell similar to irradiate from Starcraft 1
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WfIPP.jpg)
This is a spell inspired by irradiate on the science vessel, which coincidentally controls very similarly to the oracle. Unlike irradiate, it would deal no damage to the target unit itself (which would likely be too strong in SC2 anyway) which would allow it to reasonably effect all unit types, rather then just biological. This spell would give the oracle a tremendous amount of utility, both in worker harass and army harass, without adding much direct combat value to the protoss deathball. It also forces micro from the opposing player.
Here are some specific uses and benefits for both of these spells that I have thought of so far. Let me know if you think of any more  .
Phase Field:
-disrupting enemy production of all races
-halting enemy upgrades of all races
-force extra static defense or keeps army in base (big threat)
-combine with phoenixes for worker harass
-nullify unattended spine walls
Psionic Disruption:
-Worker harass(and eraser trick)
-disrupt on medivacs vs a 10:30 timing
-disrupt to ward off mutalisks
-disrupt on clusters on siege tanks (forces unsiege or massive damage, encourages splitting tanks)
-disrupt on colossus forces them off deathball
-force splitting and micro from the opponent
If just one of these spells was considered, I would be thrilled. This is my first post on TL, so let me know if I did anything wrong. If you like either of these spells, it would be awesome if you made a post over at the beta forums. Thanks for reading, and feedback is appreciated.
|
This is cool, but I think Phase Shift-Field is a pretty powerful idea; it would definitely need to be on the range 3 end of the radius.
Irradiate 2.0 sounds awesome and might be able to break up deathball vs deathball in PvP. However, I think Blizzard is really too anxious to give another damaging ability to protoss. Another key point would be whether it had friendly fire, and I think it's important that it should.
|
Phase field would indeed be strong, but the oracle is also a very low hp unit, and a spell this strong would make the opposing player take the oracle seriously. Whatever value is a good radius, a balance team would have to consider both how much static defense an oracle could phase out to make it effective vs how many production buildings an oracle could phase out without being too strong.
As for Psi disruption, I agree that the spell should have friendly fire, as it would encourage interesting micro from both sides. At the pro level, I don't think the damage itself will influence the course of a battle too much since a good player will quickly shuffle out the disrupted unit. Thanks for the feedback.
|
"They already gave the Oracle one Corruptor spell, so why not give it another one?" LOL.
|
how about giving sentry Hallucination for oracle?
currently the sentry needs to reserve energy for FF and Guardian shield, we rarely see Hallucinations.
and hallucinations feel more oracle than sentry anyway.
if oracle has it, then it kinds of give it a later game use as hallucination caster. I see this as very potential for new styles.
|
I just posted this in another thread but I would like to know your opinions as well.
I have been thinking about two abilities for a while now
It would be an aoe slow, and silence
the aoe slow could be used to support air facilitate escape catch enemy units that are out of position ect the list goes on the silence would prevent cloak, medivac heal, stim, charge blink, burrow, transfusion, again the list goes on this would be an effective support tool and soft detect
The negatives I can see with this is that it could be brought into the deathball but the hope is to adjust it to help with raiding parties and stargate based plays
?Chrono Syphon?
The other ability as a direct alternative for entomb. The oracle would "steal time" from nearby enemy units or structures, and it would slowly reduce the speed at with a unit/ structure takes action acting as a reverse to chrono boost it would slow and eventually stop workers from mining or a structure from producing units. Though units and structures would quickly revert back to normal after the oracle moves out of range.
This would allow for the indirect damage as well as interesting micro opportunities from both sides while you try to keep as many units and structures effected while not taking to much damage and an undefended base would eventually just stop mining if not dealt with
Entomb vs Chrono Syphon
Entomb -
Entomb is binary
If you get the ability off you have guarantied damage
Rather boring and uninteresting
Chrono Syphon -
Skilled players get a higher payoff
Damage is not guarantied
Can stall upgrades, unit production, tech
High risk, High reward
Much more interesting to watch/use
Hopefully I wasn't unclear above feedback is appreciated
|
United States4883 Posts
On October 07 2012 11:53 AzraelArchontas wrote:
I just posted this in another thread but I would like to know your opinions as well.
I have been thinking about two abilities for a while now
It would be an aoe slow, and silence
the aoe slow could be used to support air facilitate escape catch enemy units that are out of position ect the list goes on the silence would prevent cloak, medivac heal, stim, charge blink, burrow, transfusion, again the list goes on this would be an effective support tool and soft detect
The negatives I can see with this is that it could be brought into the deathball but the hope is to adjust it to help with raiding parties and stargate based plays
?Chrono Syphon?
The other ability as a direct alternative for entomb. The oracle would "steal time" from nearby enemy units or structures, and it would slowly reduce the speed at with a unit/ structure takes action acting as a reverse to chrono boost it would slow and eventually stop workers from mining or a structure from producing units. Though units and structures would quickly revert back to normal after the oracle moves out of range.
This would allow for the indirect damage as well as interesting micro opportunities from both sides while you try to keep as many units and structures effected while not taking to much damage and an undefended base would eventually just stop mining if not dealt with
Entomb vs Chrono Syphon
Entomb -
Entomb is binary
If you get the ability off you have guarantied damage
Rather boring and uninteresting
Chrono Syphon -
Skilled players get a higher payoff
Damage is not guarantied
Can stall upgrades, unit production, tech
High risk, High reward
Much more interesting to watch/use
Hopefully I wasn't unclear above feedback is appreciated
I don't like this idea. We actually don't need any abilities in the entire game that take 30 seconds to be useful, we need abilities that are useful immediately as SC2 is all about speed and reaction time.
I like the OP suggestions. The use of phase shift on static defenses seems to be the perfect utility for protoss, who just has a lot of difficulty breaking through a few spine crawlers and/or spores (i.e. 6 zealots vs. 2 spines+queen = no real damage done). The idea of irridate is an old idea, but we saw that it worked well in BW, and maybe an updated or more interesting version of it is what the oracle needs. Not to mention that it deals with the bullshit muta/ling plays a little better than going for 6 phoenixes with an upgrade that will be fairly useless against the eventual tech switch to roaches or ultras.
|
I like the idea behind Phase Field, but I think an interesting way to implement something like that would be a toggle skill (pretty much like the actual Ghost Cloak works) that allows the Oracle to deploy this "attack mode" until it runs out of energy or toggles it off.
I'd say it should be a beam like attack that auto-targets a single enemy building in rage (short range) and the player should be able to switch target manually (pretty much like any attack unit). I'm not sure if it should be able to channel this while moving, but it seems like an interesting option: That would allow the Oracle to "dance" back and forth and between the enemy's sim city to avoid taking fire. That way it will require active micro from both sides.
Also, being a single target spell means that the Protoss player will need a higher Oracle count to disable a fortified static defense line.
|
Phase field:
This will even further destroy defender's advantage during protoss attacks, since warpgates puts reinforcements right at the front door, now your opponent cant even train units if you did a stargate timing.
psi disruption:
excellent idea, more aoe in the game will discourage box and 1-A, it also gives some entertaining harass options.
|
-Phase Field-
I've been asking for a Phase Shift back (limited to static defences) for a long time, but your Phase Field is even more awesome!
The possibility to phase out production buildings may still be too much, but the area effect is much weaker than the "old" single target, so they might give it a try. For sure it does wonders supporting Phoenixes/Rays/DTs.
-Psionic Disruption-
The spell all around sounds pretty good. Since has so many implications with the rest of the units i can't say more, but i like it.
-Extra-
I still think Oracles should have something that makes them usefull when they have no energy, like a base "attack" that doesn't do any damage. For example stealing cargo from workers (or something like the new syphon). This way the Oracles are microable all game long.
Anyway, really good suggestions! Your Oracle would be fun to play with 
|
Russian Federation216 Posts
I only wait when blizz understand - pure harrasing units for harras do not work
|
I like it because I think the oracle absolutely needs a utility in the protoss army to be viable. I presume that the idea behind it is to give Protoss the option of going stargate or robo - especially in pvt. If we are going to spend 300 gas early on stargate/oracle, that means we either have to sacrifice sentries and/or upgrades, and since defence against early marine pushes is pretty thin as it is, I don't think that an early oracle is a safe option at the moment. I liked the idea of giving it cloak - that would have certainly helped, but something like disruption might be good as well.
I don't quite understand why blizzard is so reluctant to risk potetntially gamebreaking changes for protoss, while they are very liberal in making quite obviously gamebreaking changes to terran time and time again.
I think this is certainly something worth considering, and would be most definitely more useful than siphon - although I would really like to try or see an oracle rush pvt with siphon on the wall while setting up a contain. 180min. per minute is potentially really good if you can hold their ramp for a while and might discourage wall-ins which could in return be benefitial for early scouting pvt which still feels kind of flaky imo.
|
I personally don't like the first idea, the Phase Field, I think it's a bit unnecessary.
But I really like the 2nd idea. Have to say I really like how it can disrupt medivacs.
Imo it sounds kinda like Static huh
|
Cloaking field and mini radius recall!!
Str8 forward warp in Harrass!! Enough of the gimmick!
Can probably add a weak entomb version to add value when not recalling or cloaking. Make small amount of Protoss units efficient in harassing. Good synergy with warp prisim.
|
Its great ideas like these here, and many others I have seen, that are needed to rescue the Oracle from the depths of boringness and dullness.
Phase Field, It creates good synergies with other units that could be great for harrasing and forcing a reaction out of your opponent. It is very rare that you will see Protoss skirmishing with a small amount of units but with the addition of Phase Field, this may become more common.
Phase Disruption I also like, especially for the 10:30 stim bio push, it may just take away the reliance on force fields, which I'm sure would be a welcome among many protoss players.
|
Thanks for the feedback everyone!
@MasterCynical Remember, this version actually has to hover over top of the production building in order to disable it, so it would be fairly easy for the defending player to focus the low hp oracle down or at least ward it off. Think late game pvz, where the zerg player will be amassing lots of spines, and a lot of the spine wall will be unattended. That's an area i think this kind of spell could improve the quality of immensely, although I could be wrong.
|
Combat Precognition:
Units gain additional damage equal to double their current attack (including upgrades).
Mana cost: 50MP
Duration: 30s
Oracle grants the son of Aiur sight beyond sight, able to perceive attacks and openings before they happen, allowing them to exponentially increase the damage to those who oppose Aiur.
|
On October 08 2012 02:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Combat Precognition:
Units gain additional damage equal to double their current attack (including upgrades).
Mana cost: 50MP
Duration: 30s
Oracle grants the son of Aiur sight beyond sight, able to perceive attacks and openings before they happen, allowing them to exponentially increase the damage to those who oppose Aiur.
Shakuras would be more fitting for the Oracle's theme
Anyway, I dont like the idea of double DPS... I think we Protoss have pretty good fire power already, such a spell would be way overkill if allowed with Psi Storm or Thermal Lances. Reinforcing the Death Ball model.
|
The unit just needs some sort of use in combat. Pure harass units don't work as they are just too one dimensional. The oracle just feels too much as a unit you make 1 or 2 of, harass a little bit and don;t interact much with other stuff. Like a sidegame you do to gain some advantage but doesn;t matter that much.
|
On October 08 2012 02:50 OskO wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 02:31 Hattori_Hanzo wrote:
Combat Precognition:
Units gain additional damage equal to double their current attack (including upgrades).
Mana cost: 50MP
Duration: 30s
Oracle grants the son of Aiur sight beyond sight, able to perceive attacks and openings before they happen, allowing them to exponentially increase the damage to those who oppose Aiur. Shakuras would be more fitting for the Oracle's theme Anyway, I dont like the idea of double DPS... I think we Protoss have pretty good fire power already, such a spell would be way overkill if allowed with Psi Storm or Thermal Lances. Reinforcing the Death Ball model.
I'm sure the appropriate nerfs can prevent it from being imba. A nerfed example would be only applicable to melee unit's attack, meaning only zealots and DTs benefit from it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
