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On January 13 2011 18:56 zeross wrote:
Well when you have enough minerals there is a bunch of extra units that come with the second base. You technicaly don't "train" them so you have the right to use them.
vulture can kill everything before the second base to collect the scrap minerals on the map
Oh right! I forgot about that part of the mission.
Thanks for the quick answer. ^^
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@moonloop: Zeross already answered your question, but here are some more specifics. The tricky part of the mission is before you get access to Mira's base. You have to kill Orlan's three mining bases with four vultures and four marines. That seems like it might not be enough, but if you get both armory upgrades and put a repairing scv on your vultures and micro carefully, you can manage. (When engaging Goliaths, retreat the damaged vultures and attack again when the goliath changes targets.) If you start killing Orlan's bases as soon as you get the vultures, you will easily beat him to 6000 minerals. After killing his bases, I was almost done, so I played it safe by collecting the minerals at the three or four spots where they are replenished every now and then, rather than pressing on close to Orlan's territory.
After you get access to Mira's base, I simply move out immediately with everything I have, including the scvs. I also float two buildings along with the army. I then move my army to the low ground just south of Orlan's CC, float the buildings for vision and siege the two tanks. That kills him without you having to deal with his annoying nukes and other defenses.
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Switched to hard for the last few levels because I couldn't see anything being challenging on Normal, even all-in.
Maw of the void was pretty simple, but the mothership fight was a mofo. I ended up building a wall of missile turrets and drawing him into them.
Gates of hell I actually had to violate the produce no units rule. I rescued all but one of the drop pods, but only had 78 supply, you need 100 supply to progress the map, so I had to produce a bunch of SCVs, which I killed afterwards. Just fought up to the crash site before producing the 100 units, so I never really had to fight through there with the Nydus worms up. Killed the last nydus only, and the level ended. I was expecting to have to clear back to my base.. I'm going to go all-in air.
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Ok, all-in air was REALLY easy. I built only two PFs, about 6 turrets, and 30ish Mind Emulators.
Ended the level with approx 100 mutas and 14 Broodlords alive.
That thing really breaks the air mode : p
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On January 15 2011 04:36 Zeh wrote:
Ok, all-in air was REALLY easy. I built only two PFs, about 6 turrets, and 30ish Mind Emulators.
Ended the level with approx 100 mutas and 14 Broodlords alive.
That thing really breaks the air mode : p
So... can you do all-in ground? I did it on Hard with mercenaries, so you can perhaps do it on normal without mercenaries!
edit: oh, and congratulations dude! "Starcraft is all about macro..." yeah, right 
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Update on my playthrough on Hard: I have now also completed all protoss missions, outbreak, the moebius factor, safe haven and engine of destruction. I find it consistently doable if challenging.
For the protoss missions, see the mercs only thread.
In outbreak you can easily defend using three PFs and three bunkers, but the waves seem to get stronger each night so the problem is to kill everything fast with the limited number of units at your disposal. (You have four firebats, six marines, three hellions, four medics and some scvs - be sure to upgrade your firebats, medic healing efficiency, and get stim). If I played through this again I would make more use of stim and let the scvs help with killing the buildings. I barely finished the mission during the seventh day.
safe haven: also quite tricky. I used the vikings to kill the first base from the high ground, while also building two armories and getting upgrades. I put a PF and some turrets in my base to defend. I also built two turrets in each of the settlements (in order from bottom to top) to deal with the terror fleets. To kill the second and third bases, I shut down some defenses with the vikings then landed a CC, converted it to PF and killed the nexus while repairing with MULEs. In the middle base, you can land the PF on the high ground which protects it from the ground forces. I then used the vikings to kill the colossi. After that I built lots of turrets in my home base and waited for the purifier to attack, it fell easily. Turret upgrades somewhat helpful.
moebius factor: this plays out more or less as usual, except you obviously have to be more careful with your units. I did not have much trouble in taking out the brutalisk. For the last building, there is one spot where you can drop your units without getting hit by the spore colonies, so I dropped and pushed from there.
Engine of destruction: I built one PF for defense, and generally let the odin handle as much on his own as possible. He can take out the first base on his own, for the subsequent bases I used the wraiths to take out key units: tanks, BCs and banshees. You have to try and conserve wraith energy. I built a second CC in my base to get more mules for money for repairs, and to repair the odin when he got in trouble. I couldn't kill the loki. I did not use my marines until the attack on the last base, which I found hardest. I also brought some four scvs to the odin for that last base. Pretty rewarding when Tychus nukes the crap out of that last base
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when i first saw this I thought i was a troll on all the other NUR's, Mercs only, etc. and expected to lol quite a bit
Then i realized it was serious, gl won't be easy but would love to hear more results
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Here's what I recommend for Outbreak: If you CAN, PFs would make it simple, not sure if they're available at that point. I used a ton of Shrike bunkers for defense (Obviously), but what I would do at night is send one group out of all marines/firebates/hellions together - This group will handle any areas with spine-crawlers. And a second group of all your SCVs. Send them to a quiet area full of buildings, have them build shrike bunkers until you're running out of time, then send them home, salvaging the bunkers as nighttime hits. You can easily clear out more than one "sector" per night period with SCVs alone doing this.
And I don't see All-In ground on Hard as likely at ALL. I could see MAYBE All-In on Normal, but you just are guaranteed to lose units, and I can't see the 25 or so non-scv units you start with to be enough. All-in air is just broken, you could probably do it on Brutal without building units if your micro is insane enough.
The only strat I think would work is a solid PF wall with a ton of SCVs on auto-repair, and when Kerrigan comes, flee the SCVs, call down a ton of mules, and use them for repair as she begins one-shotting them with AOE. And just hide all your other units when Kerrigan is around. Perhaps I will try. But not a lot of times.. : P
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Just breezed through Shatter the Sky and All-In ground, did Shatter the Sky on Hard, All-in in Normal.
Hive mind emulator makes it pretty simple to acquire a large army on Shatter the Sky, I had a few dozen mutas by the time the big guy came out, and 8 or 10 broodlords.
On All-in, it was actually pretty entertaining, and I think it might even be doable on Hard. I built 3PFs on the left, 2 on the right, As many hive-mind emulators as I could fit around without limiting movement too much (started with about 10, ended with maybe 20). I would capture every roach that showed up early, and added the Hydras as they came. By the time the first Kerrigan came, I had about 12 roaches and 10 hydras, she wouldn't directly attack them at all, apparently. Her pets are also great captures, the Hunter-killers or whatever they are. I kept this up, with 5 SCVs per side for repairs, right before 90% I built an extra 6 or so MC devices, lost a PF or two, but wasn't too concerned, as my Zerg ground-army was enough to completely cover the high ground, including 4-6 Ultras, TONS of roaches and a lot of hydras. The last Kerrigan charge died incidentally from my mass of zerg while I was capturing some more ultras.
I think the Hive mind emulator really takes away the main limiting factor in this playstyle, but I really don't feel like going through the last levels again, and I'm not sure there's any possible way otherwise. If there is, I'm guessing it's tedious.
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@zeh: very cool, I didn't think of the shrike turret trick for outbreak, that will speed things up considerably. It is reassuring that you beat all-in ground on normal so convincingly. How did you kill the nydus worms? On hard they may spawn much farther out from your base so you can't reach them with the energy nova, sometimes there is detection, and you have only two or three banshees to kill them with, so I'm not looking forward to that.
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@shoop:
I think they spawn in ABOUT the same areas on Normal, there are certainly less of them it seems. I used the banshees, I didn't lose any of them until about 80%, after which I quickly lost the other two and shifted into defense/mind-controlling.
Really though, the more I think about it, I think Hard would probably only be doable on all-in Air, the banshees would simply get picked off inevitably, there's more spore crawlers etc. on hard. For most of normal, they could safely cloak from worm to worm for the most part. Being able to easily kill the nydus worms made it relatively easy. I suppose if you spammed MASS MC towers and you were maintaining a good high APM you could probably manage it on Hard, keeping a mass of zerg flesh between your base and the waves... Though if you lose the banshees you're kinda screwed, you can't let the worms stay up forever. So I dunno.
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I beat welcome to the jungle on hard, which was, well, hard. The protoss attack with quite a lot of air units, and the slower you play the more waves you have to handle. I delayed this mission as much as I could to get all the relevant upgrades, which are: orbital command, planetary fortress, bunker range and both missile turret upgrades. I immediately collected the first leftmost canister, then pushed north into the protoss base by building a bunker (putting my two marines in) and a turret and luring units. I put one scv on my goliaths, which were able to stop any attempts to seal any terrazine sources on the left hand side of the map. After clearing the base I pushed further north to establish a defense in between a group of three terrazine sources, the second group of three from below. There I built about 12 turrets and a bunker and collected the three. This was the hardest bit, because you really get attacked by a LOT of stuff. Perhaps this would have been easier with a PF, but I thought it wasn't necessary because most attackers were air units. I then retreated to the other group of three sources; I floated my main there to build a PF and put down several turrets (about 6) and a bunker. This allowed me to get all required terrazine quite easily. Instead of delivering the last canister immediately, I tried to get the protoss artifacts first, which turned out to be very easy: my goliaths could get the artifact on the left side of the map, and they subsequently kamikazed into the defended last artifact on the right side of the map. (In hindsight I could have dropped a mule there.)
I then beat supernova by collecting the artifacts, then doing the cheese strat (wait until the fire kills everything, then dart in and destroy the vault). I floated my CC along the bottom of the map after clearing a path with the banshees. Not much more to be said. Regenerative bio-steel helped, and while I stupidly got only one armory, you should probably get two so you can get all air upgrades before the fire arrives.
Before going to Char I now only have to complete breakout and the secret mission, which are not harder than usual, and maw of the void, which I know to be doable since it is so similar to my mercenary only playthrough. Upon completing all that, I'll decide whether I'll try all-in ground on hard. It sounds tricky though. Might just go for air.
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@zeh: thanks for the info! I may TRY all-in hard, and then reload an earlier save if I find it too frustrating. I think mass MC will be key, and when at some point the banshees die I will simply have to let the worms live until I hit the artifact. They spawn worse and worse units,but... that should provide better and better mind control material. Hopefully.
Oh, for shatter the sky, where did you put the mind control towers? Just around your base and then hope they send mutas?
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Mostly, you can also build them near the tubes the mutas come out of, and pull 3-4 at a time into them.
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I completed the whole thing in Hard - yeehaah! It was a lot of fun and especially in the early stages quite tricky. I had a go at all-in ground, and I think it should be doable for someone patient with good micro, but I got fed up and did all-in air instead, which is a breeze.
I'm now going for No Buildings on Hard. I'm pretty sure that can be done on brutal, but I like to have an easy time for a while.
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On January 22 2011 07:09 shoop wrote:
I completed the whole thing in Hard - yeehaah! It was a lot of fun and especially in the early stages quite tricky. I had a go at all-in ground, and I think it should be doable for someone patient with good micro, but I got fed up and did all-in air instead, which is a breeze.
I'm now going for No Buildings on Hard. I'm pretty sure that can be done on brutal, but I like to have an easy time for a while.
good job with that one
i think no building will be quite easy on hard but a little difficult on brutal. it don't only prevent you from building PF to defend, but also to make more production facilities to build more units quicker.
i don't see how you plan to do all-in on brutal like that ^^
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[edit: removed some nonsense]
For all in: you can make from one rax, one fac, one starport and the merc compound, and you can add tech reactors, plus you have an armory and engineering bay, so you can actually get quite a lot of units. Without hive mind emulator, all in ground is probably the easier mission. The real problem is the lack of static defense - perhaps hide behind a supply depot wall?
All in all, I still think it can be done on brutal, but I won't be the one to try it :-)
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I feel like I'm a bit under everyone's level in this thread, but how do you beat the "The Evacuation" mission in the beginning of the game with only 2 firebats and 2 medics?
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like shoop said in another thread, build bunkers with the turret add-on on it.
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EPT
