EPTI seem to be in the minority, but I actually think that Jims storming of the ship was a good move, and that it was Valarian who was the stupid one. I didn't think so while I was watching the movie play, which you could say is a script failure on the writers part, but it made sense after a few minutes of critical thinking. If the Dominion had planned on gunning the hyperion down they would have jumped in from behind and not in front of the ship and with nothing between Valarian and a Yamato blast, so it's pretty clear that Mengsk isn't going to blow the ship. plus the number countdown suggested that they were closing in pretty fast so any attempt to destroy the Hyperion could risk rather disasterous collatoral damage. I'm assuming that it only showed Jim and Tychus in the scene because it was of such high quality and that rendering additional marines would have taken a long time. but still, Tychus is absent when Jim finds Valarian, so it's logical to assume that he's off with a squad of marines guarding the perimiters.
Problem with the Jim meeting Valarian cinematic
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Billy_
461 Posts
I seem to be in the minority, but I actually think that Jims storming of the ship was a good move, and that it was Valarian who was the stupid one. I didn't think so while I was watching the movie play, which you could say is a script failure on the writers part, but it made sense after a few minutes of critical thinking. If the Dominion had planned on gunning the hyperion down they would have jumped in from behind and not in front of the ship and with nothing between Valarian and a Yamato blast, so it's pretty clear that Mengsk isn't going to blow the ship. plus the number countdown suggested that they were closing in pretty fast so any attempt to destroy the Hyperion could risk rather disasterous collatoral damage. I'm assuming that it only showed Jim and Tychus in the scene because it was of such high quality and that rendering additional marines would have taken a long time. but still, Tychus is absent when Jim finds Valarian, so it's logical to assume that he's off with a squad of marines guarding the perimiters. | ||
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Asx32
Poland24 Posts
Jim's decision was wise: Battlecruiser-wise it was 3 vs 1, while by storming he was likely to kill Arcturius - and win the revolution in one move. | ||
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BadStigma
South Africa27 Posts
Thats was my biggest problem with it. | ||
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nihoh
Australia978 Posts
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hadoken5
Canada519 Posts
On October 14 2010 18:48 Asx32 wrote: Mat said: "That's strange: their shields are still down" - which means that Dominion ships weren't going to defend themselves nor attack. Jim's decision was wise: Battlecruiser-wise it was 3 vs 1, while by storming he was likely to kill Arcturius - and win the revolution in one move. WTH! MENGSK IS PROTIS!??!??!?!? | ||
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Billy_
461 Posts
On October 14 2010 20:08 BadStigma wrote: Battle Cruisers have Shields??, in the cinematic its was a statement as if it comes standard with shields? Ignoring the ingame upgrade which is a temporary once off use. Thats was my biggest problem with it. Battlecruisers have had shields ever since the UED attempted to capture Mengsk on Korhal during BW. When you get a choice between taking out the nukes and the starports, destroy the nukes. The BC captain clearly says "shields up, weapons online". Chalk it up to gameplay balancing mechanics. | ||
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0mar
United States567 Posts
On October 14 2010 18:48 Asx32 wrote: Mat said: "That's strange: their shields are still down" - which means that Dominion ships weren't going to defend themselves nor attack. Jim's decision was wise: Battlecruiser-wise it was 3 vs 1, while by storming he was likely to kill Arcturius - and win the revolution in one move. That's retarded. It's like saying "The suspect has his gun lowered, rush him!". If the Dominion fleet was truly benign, then Valerian should have sent out a hail. Raynor is equally stupid because a boarding maneuver is one of the most hostile moves you can do. You have practically touch the BCs together, cut a hole into the enemy BC and then send troops in. In the time that it takes to do all that, the rest of the fleet could have reduced Raynor into slag. The action within Valerian's ship is equally dumb. All it would take is one decent line-up and Raynor/Tychus would have bitten the bullet. If Raynor didn't want to kill Arcturus face to face, Valerian would have been shot in an instant. The only way this entire sequence of events makes sense is if both Valerian and Raynor knew they couldn't die due to their plot armor. Any other explanation simply ignores reality. | ||
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Billy_
461 Posts
That's retarded. It's like saying "The suspect has his gun lowered, rush him!". Actually it's probably more like "The suspect has kicked his gun away and has stripped naked, layed face down and has hands behind his head" The cruiser is easily yamato blastable, and how likely is it that you can blow up one docked battlecruiser without destroying the other in the blast? | ||
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ghostunit
61 Posts
Are the writers really that lazy or did they just think we were idiots? Actually, everything about this scene is stupid. The mere idea of boarding, the stupid fight cinematic in the BC's corridors, the looong zoom-in into the label of the flash grenade (hey, we get your bad joke ok, you don't have to hold the camera shot there as if we could only read a letter per second), the whole idea of Valerian having planned it all along, Valerian's bizarre way of thinking "hey, I know, instead of contacting them, I'll just let Raynor board me and kill my men, then we will surely be allies!" and so on. Ugh, SC2's "plot" makes me angry just to think about it. It's like the star wars prequels. | ||
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Billy_
461 Posts
On October 15 2010 02:39 ghostunit wrote: The moment I heard "the battlecruisers' shields are down" the whole scene died to me. Since when do BCs have shields??? it makes no sense in the SC universe. Are the writers really that lazy or did they just think we were idiots? Yeah, they had shields since BW. I am not making this up. Go watch a lets play of the UED campaign if you forgot. Whatever. I think the problem is you though. you've grown up and matured while Blizzard have not. I can name a few things from BW which are as unbelievable as anything from that cinematic simply because Blizzard thinks it's cool. Actually, everything about this scene is stupid. The mere idea of boarding, the stupid fight cinematic in the BC's corridors It's better odds than 1 vs 3 battlecruisers. | ||
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ghostunit
61 Posts
The thing is that in SC, the shields mention is easily interpretable as the kind of terran-feasible shielding mentioned above, just some irrelevant technicality that makes no harm to the consistency of the plot/world. I still wouldn't have put it though, or at least would have written specifically the kind of shielding referred, but anyways. But in this SC2 scene the "shields" are mentioned as if they were Protoss-like, defensive shields. And their being down the key factor in making the BC boarding possible. A fast one the writers try to slip past us, and that suddenly activates our brains to think "huh? wtf?" instantly and instinctively killing all suspension of disbelief. You do not want to do this as a story-writer, ever. | ||
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SoaDMTGguy
United States47 Posts
When we are playing StarCraft: The RTS, we expect that units will behave in ways which are not really realistic (two tanks are bigger then one medivac for instance. Or better yet, how can a single barracks produce an infinite stream of marines? I get that you could build the guns and armor with the 50 minerals, but where the heck to all those people come from?). When we are watching StarCraft: The Science Fiction Movie, however, units can be represented in their "true" forms and with their true abilities. In the "real" StarCraft universe, battle cruisers are massive ships, capable of launching entire armies, much like the Galactica in BSG or the Enterprise in StarTrek. It makes perfect sense that they would have shields. | ||
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Kishuu
Brazil108 Posts
Grabbing the storyline and trying to make sense out of it based on gameplay mechanics is not something that you should do. They'll be different for a very broad variety of reasons and that's the way it is. Not trying to sound like a dickhead but you guys are stretching it up too much. | ||
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0mar
United States567 Posts
On October 14 2010 22:44 Billy_ wrote: Actually it's probably more like "The suspect has kicked his gun away and has stripped naked, layed face down and has hands behind his head" The cruiser is easily yamato blastable, and how likely is it that you can blow up one docked battlecruiser without destroying the other in the blast? BCs have more weapons than just yamato. If Raynor yamato'ed Valerian's flagship, his own ship would be reduced to slag in a second. We are talking half the Dominion fleet. The rest of the fleet could launch wraiths/vikings, concentrate fire on the Hyperion and end Raynor's story right there if the fleet was truly hostile. Letting the Hyperion dock and board the flagship is a suicidal move, no matter how you cut it. Just because the shields are down doesn't mean all the weapons are powered down. The only explanation that works is that Valerian/Raynor know about their plot armor and abused it in front of us. Nothing else works. It's just a retarded scene all around. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
I don't see kerrigan throwing an shadow like energy ball either(zeratul cinematic) she has storm and phoenix like liftoff capabilities. Cinematics are simply different then ingame that is all | ||
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0mar
United States567 Posts
On October 15 2010 07:26 FinestHour wrote: my question is why the enemy battlecruiser only sent 3 marines to stop him Why send any at all. Valerian had no intention of killing/capturing Raynor. Needless sacrifice of men is not the hallmark of a good commander, which is apparently what Valerian is aspiring to be. It also kills morale. | ||
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Billy_
461 Posts
On October 15 2010 07:46 0mar wrote: Why send any at all. Valerian had no intention of killing/capturing Raynor. Needless sacrifice of men is not the hallmark of a good commander, which is apparently what Valerian is aspiring to be. It also kills morale. The novels probably have an answer to that. Marines generally go throguh resocialisation due to the fact that Mengsks favorite retruiting stations include miximum security prisons. The marines are for all intents and purposes completely docile zombie slaves not capable of insubordination which kind of fits in with the whole brutal regime that Mengsk has going on. Guess Valarian might have instructed the marines to go easy and miss delieberatly? And Raynor never gave him much of a chance to communicate peacefully. | ||
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n00bination
United States102 Posts
The novels probably have an answer to that. Marines generally go throguh resocialisation due to the fact that Mengsks favorite retruiting stations include miximum security prisons. The marines are for all intents and purposes completely docile zombie slaves not capable of insubordination which kind of fits in with the whole brutal regime that Mengsk has going on. Guess Valarian might have instructed the marines to go easy and miss delieberatly? And Raynor never gave him much of a chance to Last edit: 2010-10-15 09:21:48 communicate peacefully. The resocialization isn't complete, though. Marines still have some semblance of free will. It's only under the influence of stims do they turn into mindless subservient zombies. Also, I don't think Valerian was in direct command of the marines, but rather General Warfield, which makes no sense seeing as how he probably wouldn't want to just throw his own men away. | ||
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0mar
United States567 Posts
On October 15 2010 11:26 n00bination wrote: The resocialization isn't complete, though. Marines still have some semblance of free will. It's only under the influence of stims do they turn into mindless subservient zombies. Also, I don't think Valerian was in direct command of the marines, but rather General Warfield, which makes no sense seeing as how he probably wouldn't want to just throw his own men away. yea, that's even worse when you consider that Warfield knew about Valerian's plan to assault Char. There's no need to throw away soldiers especially when those soldiers could potentially kill the ally Valerian wanted. Every available man would have been crucial considering the odds Valerian thrust the fleet into. | ||
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