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Hello TL,
The point of this topic is to sum up everything about the Starcraft lore, because I'm seeing a lot of topics which contradict it, and to help people understand the Starcraft universe better.
Now, I've been writing this topic for a long time, when I got some happy 'insufficient posting rights' message, and probably an hour's work was gone.
So, I'll sum up everything I have to say, with no humor, since I'm quite angry, and with no details.
Everything said here is based on official lore and can be found in the starcraft wikia or manual.
Xel'naga.
They reproduce by the 'Cycle'. The Cycle is a merging of 2 races - one with purity of essence, the other with purity of form. That means that every single Xel'naga is born of the merge. There are no births during the existence of one generation.
Source:
+ Show Spoiler +The xel'naga were incredibly long-lived by protoss standards, but not immortal; eventually their species would come to an end. In the interest of survival they planned to create new xel'naga by uplifting two species. A pair of qualities was required and these were defined by the xel'naga as the purity of essence and the purity of form, and each uplifted species would be targeted for one of them. Over an extraordinary long period of time, the two species would naturally come together and merge. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Xel'naga
Dark Voice.
Evil bad guy, imprisoned by Xel'naga. Doesn't like the Xel'naga. Understands that the only way to defeat the Xel'naga is to stop their cycle since the death of one generation means little when races with purity of essence and form have already been 'uplifted'.
The Dark Voice, even though imprisoned manages to influence the Overmind. The change in the Overmind is sudden, unlike that in the Protoss, that means there is an outside source influencing it.
Xel'naga, which possess little weaponry, since they are benevolent, die to the underdeveloped swarm.
Their death means nothing, since the races with purity of essence and form have already been uplifted.
Source:
+ Show Spoiler +When the xel'naga began uplifting the zerg, they created the Overmind to control and direct the hive mind. But the Overmind was not given free will. It was given an overriding directive to destroy the protoss. The Dark Voice had a hand in this. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Dark_Voice
Humanity.
Tools in the game, easily influenced by the Dark Voice, one of the influenced is called Samir Duran.
Samir Duran.
He isn't special, he is nobody, just a 'garment' for the Dark Voice. He helps the Dark Voice create an army, an army of Hybrids.
Source:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hybrids.
They possess no free will, thus no purity of form or essence, thus they cannot be real Xel'naga.
Source:
+ Show Spoiler +Previous incarnations of the xel'naga had been created through "natural mergings" of other species which possessed purity of form and essence as part of their natural life cycle. According to the protoss preserver Zamara, however, Duran's experiments are a "perversion" of what was to be (as they have nothing of the natural cycle of the xel'naga in them), and if his attempts to "unify" the species become successful, "a monstrous and powerful perversion of both protoss and zerg will be set loose upon the universe, and all that [the protoss and terran] know and cherish will fall in their wake". http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Hybrid
Emil Narud.
Head of the Möebius Foundation, another garment of the Dark Voice, who apparently likes puns with the name 'Duran'. Möebius Foundation released the physical emanation of the Dark Voice. Narud basically released the Dark Voice. Cool, right?
Source:
+ Show Spoiler +Millenia later,[2] a Möebius Foundation research team investigate the xel'naga ruins on the planet. Dr. Morrigan, a researcher with minor psychic abilities, learned from it how to make a psionic amplifier for her own abilities. Calling herself the "key" for the crystalline "lock", she unleashed it. The Voice began to unseal itself. It possessed half the research team, and the rest were brutally slaughtered. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Voice_in_the_Darkness_(entity)
Vision of the future.
The only way to defeat the Dark Voice and its army of hybrids is to bring back the Xel'naga. The Xel'naga, if you have been reading is a merge of 2 races. These 2 races currently are zerg and protoss.
You can't do that if you don't have zerg.
Thus you need control of the zerg.
Thus you need Kerrigan alive.
Source: Personal speculation.
That is generally a TL;DR version of what I planned to post earlier... heh...
Edit: (thanks to NeonGenesis, who reminded me).
I didn't mention anything about the Phoenix creatures (or Energy creatures) that are part of the books, since we haven't seen them in the game.
However, they may serve a purpose being that of helping the merging process (remember that they absorb species' essence).
Think of it as the way for merging the races, which does not require the previous Xel'naga generation to be alive.
Source:
+ Show Spoiler +It has the ability to emit "scanning beams" which disintegrate creatures and objects of interest. It can use the beams to absorb the genetics of protoss and zerg. While it is capable of absorbing terrans, it seems to have little interest in them The temple absorbed the energy from a nuclear attack, which the creature used to combine the genetics of the zerg and protoss within itself to complete its maturation. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Phoenix_creature
and personal speculation.
2nd Edit: Added sources, for those too lazy to browse the wiki, in spoiler tags, to keep it from getting too long.
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wow ... somehow I think you spoiled the entire rest of the game... and some of Wings.
Is all of this already known ? thought they would have held some of it back, you know so there's a story not just some dot connections.
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It's up to them to decide how to connect the dots, even if they are already there.
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So Duran isn't special, even though he claimed to be "many millennia old" and "having many names over these millennia" (Narud perhaps)? I think he is a bit more than just some Terran as you claim, but other than that it's a nice overview
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According to Rethq's interpretation, it wasn't actually Duran speaking, it was the Dark Voice, who inhabited his body some point before the start of the BW campaign. So while Duran's body is just some Terran, the Dark Voice - who is Duran's mind- is millennia old.
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I don't know how much you know of the books, but a lot of Xel'Naga temples "hatched" recently. I don't think the nature of these creatures has been revealed yet, and they are sure to play a huge role.
Also, the Xel'Naga merging of Protoss and Zerg was something that was supposed to happen naturally through evolution.
Anyway, the energy creatures from the Xel'Naga temple is an X factor that makes us unable to divine hwo the story is going to fold.
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Let people speculate about the story. Nothing wrong with that. Even you took some liberties to speculate your theory around the story.
Also providing the link to those facts would be helpful to many players.
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On August 08 2010 23:26 Oliwoli wrote:
According to Rethq's interpretation, it wasn't actually Duran speaking, it was the Dark Voice, who inhabited his body some point before the start of the BW campaign. So while Duran's body is just some Terran, the Dark Voice - who is Duran's mind- is millennia old.
Aahh I see, that is a very interesting thought. Never considered that one, I just assumed Duran was a different sort of being, yet still a servant to a higher power.
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On August 08 2010 23:30 NeonGenesis wrote:
I don't know how much you know of the books, but a lot of Xel'Naga temples "hatched" recently. I don't think the nature of these creatures has been revealed yet, and they are sure to play a huge role.
Also, the Xel'Naga merging of Protoss and Zerg was something that was supposed to happen naturally through evolution.
Anyway, the energy creatures from the Xel'Naga temple is an X factor that makes us unable to divine hwo the story is going to fold.
Oh, during the 2nd writing I forgot about that.
I think these Phoenix creatures, or Energy creatures are the way for carrying out the merging naturally.
Basically, think of it as a fail-safe, should the previous generation of Xel'naga die before the merging is complete. (It's possible that they need to die before it's complete, my point still stands.)
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What the hell did this Dark voice was in Wing of liberty? Where did all this came from?
I missed so much of the story that I feel like i played a different game!? O_o
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Great! Someone else posted something that I went on and on about right HERE!.
I don't get why everyone didn't notice that the Xel-Naga are always super nice and now they appear to be super evil and everyone's just kind of okay with that.
Makes no sense.
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On August 08 2010 23:32 Thegilaboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 23:26 Oliwoli wrote:
According to Rethq's interpretation, it wasn't actually Duran speaking, it was the Dark Voice, who inhabited his body some point before the start of the BW campaign. So while Duran's body is just some Terran, the Dark Voice - who is Duran's mind- is millennia old. Aahh I see, that is a very interesting thought. Never considered that one, I just assumed Duran was a different sort of being, yet still a servant to a higher power.
It could be true, but it sure as hell isn't official lore, so disregard OP's post.
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....where is this coming from?
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On August 09 2010 00:06 cascades wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 23:32 Thegilaboy wrote:On August 08 2010 23:26 Oliwoli wrote:
According to Rethq's interpretation, it wasn't actually Duran speaking, it was the Dark Voice, who inhabited his body some point before the start of the BW campaign. So while Duran's body is just some Terran, the Dark Voice - who is Duran's mind- is millennia old. Aahh I see, that is a very interesting thought. Never considered that one, I just assumed Duran was a different sort of being, yet still a servant to a higher power. It could be true, but it sure as hell isn't official lore, so disregard OP's post.
True, would be nice if there were some citations as to where exactly each point is being drawn from
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Hmm... Why is Zerg the purity of form? They don't even have a consistent form of their own, they just take the blueprints from other forms. Unless the overmind is a "pure" Zerg form, but the overmind was just a fat tentacle blob thing, not very functional or impressive in its form.
Seems like Human race would be the purity of form, Protoss the purity of essence.
(No I'm not just talking about aesthetics, i'm talking about a functional, practical and flexible form. Human > Zerg)
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On August 09 2010 00:42 Opinion wrote:
Hmm... Why is Zerg the purity of form? They don't even have a consistent form of their own, they just take the blueprints from other forms. Unless the overmind is a "pure" Zerg form, but the overmind was just a fat tentacle blob thing, not very functional or impressive in its form.
Seems like Human race would be the purity of form, Protoss the purity of essence.
(No I'm not just talking about aesthetics, i'm talking about a functional, practical and flexible form. Human > Zerg)
Seems like someones proud of the human body ; )
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the "purity" refers to the will to make itself better, enhance itself
Zerg has "purity of essence" - they can assimilate species into their own, and even modify them to some extent. Single individuals can also mutate to become drastically different
Protoss has "purity of form" - with their powerful psionic powers and in the way (almost) their whole species communicates through the Khala. They are "good" beings and keep trying to make themselves better in that regard (even though often times they are overzealous).
Take them both together, and you get the Xel'Naga, the beings that cherish all that is life.
(by the way, add a good amount of pragmatism and individualism/self-centeredness to these two, plus some sort of will to manipulate other stuff than itself, and you get the Terrans)
EDIT> Derp, switched the two purities for some reason. Still, their descriptions are correct...
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On August 09 2010 01:00 brocoli wrote:
the "purity" refers to the will to make itself better, enhance itself
Zerg has "purity of form" - they can assimilate species into their own, and even modify them to some extent. Single individuals can also mutate to become drastically different
Protoss has "purity of essence" - with their powerful psionic powers and in the way (almost) their whole species communicates through the Khala. They are "good" beings and keep trying to make themselves better in that regard (even though often times they are overzealous).
Take them both together, and you get the Xel'Naga, the beings that cherish all that is life.
(by the way, add a good amount of pragmatism and individualism/self-centeredness to these two, plus some sort of will to manipulate other stuff than itself, and you get the Terrans)
Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but what IS the zerg? What was the first Zerg form?
I've read that lings, hydralisks, ultras etc etc were all assimilated into the zerg, but what was the first Zerg form? did they start with something? Maybe a drone?
Or maybe its a single cell organism?
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Protoss is purity of form. Zerg is purity of essence.
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On August 09 2010 01:09 Opinion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 01:00 brocoli wrote:
the "purity" refers to the will to make itself better, enhance itself
Zerg has "purity of form" - they can assimilate species into their own, and even modify them to some extent. Single individuals can also mutate to become drastically different
Protoss has "purity of essence" - with their powerful psionic powers and in the way (almost) their whole species communicates through the Khala. They are "good" beings and keep trying to make themselves better in that regard (even though often times they are overzealous).
Take them both together, and you get the Xel'Naga, the beings that cherish all that is life.
(by the way, add a good amount of pragmatism and individualism/self-centeredness to these two, plus some sort of will to manipulate other stuff than itself, and you get the Terrans) Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but what IS the zerg? What was the first Zerg form? I've read that lings, hydralisks, ultras etc etc were all assimilated into the zerg, but what was the first Zerg form? did they start with something? Maybe a drone? Or maybe its a single cell organism?
From the research in SC2 campaign the zerg growing in the tank has "cells" from every zerg strain we've seen and many we haven't seen. So its quite possible that "Zerg" as a term really does mean the whole distinct group of beings. And each race they assimilate becomes part of the Zerg completely and "Zerg" as a term evolves to include this race.
There doesn't seem to be a basic creature or parasite at all, and depending on how the zerg were created there could have never been one. For example, if they were created from a combination of hatchery, larvae, and drone "cells" then the zerg would have always been a conglomerate.
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On August 09 2010 01:09 Opinion wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 01:00 brocoli wrote:
the "purity" refers to the will to make itself better, enhance itself
Zerg has "purity of form" - they can assimilate species into their own, and even modify them to some extent. Single individuals can also mutate to become drastically different
Protoss has "purity of essence" - with their powerful psionic powers and in the way (almost) their whole species communicates through the Khala. They are "good" beings and keep trying to make themselves better in that regard (even though often times they are overzealous).
Take them both together, and you get the Xel'Naga, the beings that cherish all that is life.
(by the way, add a good amount of pragmatism and individualism/self-centeredness to these two, plus some sort of will to manipulate other stuff than itself, and you get the Terrans) Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but what IS the zerg? What was the first Zerg form? I've read that lings, hydralisks, ultras etc etc were all assimilated into the zerg, but what was the first Zerg form? did they start with something? Maybe a drone? Or maybe its a single cell organism?
The Cerebrates are the original zerg, I would imagine.
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On August 09 2010 00:06 cascades wrote:
It could be true, but it sure as hell isn't official lore, so disregard OP's post.
Read the post again. And try to put some effort into reading the sources and wiki links I added before saying I am wrong.
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If anyone can offer an explanation of these 3 things I would be most appreciative.
What is the difference between:
1) Zerg assimilating the Protoss
2)"Hybrid" of Zerg and Protoss
3) Using these phoenix energy beings to merge the races
It seems like all 3 of these processes would "complete the cycle" and the difference between them is just semantics.
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As far as I know the zerus larva are the most related to the first zerg.
1) Zerg assimilating the Protoss
2)"Hybrid" of Zerg and Protoss
3) Using these phoenix energy beings to merge the races
1. The Zerg couldn´t assimilate the Protoss
2. The Hybrids we have seen thus far where created through some weird experiments and where imperfect monsters
3.We don´t even know what the phoenix should do but the OP thinks that they are used to create the next generation of the Xelnaga but thats just his guess
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On August 09 2010 01:30 FecalFrown wrote:
If anyone can offer an explanation of these 3 things I would be most appreciative.
What is the difference between:
1) Zerg assimilating the Protoss
2)"Hybrid" of Zerg and Protoss
3) Using these phoenix energy beings to merge the races
It seems like all 3 of these processes would "complete the cycle" and the difference between them is just semantics.
1)Impossible.
+ Show Spoiler +Infested protoss were removed from the game due to lore reasons; Chris Metzen has said "there are no infested protoss, period"[5] and Dustin Browder has said "based on the lore, the Protoss do not become infested. The combination of the two result in a hybrid race".[6] However, Blizzard has also contradicted this statement.[7][8] The issue was clarified in StarCraft II: Wings of Liberty: infested protoss do not exist.[2] http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Infested_protoss
2) Creates a 'perversion' of the cycle.
+ Show Spoiler +
3) Yet unknown. Possibly the natural way to complete the cycle.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 09 2010 01:00 brocoli wrote:
the "purity" refers to the will to make itself better, enhance itself
Zerg has "purity of form" - they can assimilate species into their own, and even modify them to some extent. Single individuals can also mutate to become drastically different
Protoss has "purity of essence" - with their powerful psionic powers and in the way (almost) their whole species communicates through the Khala. They are "good" beings and keep trying to make themselves better in that regard (even though often times they are overzealous).
Wasnt it the other way around? zerg having "purity of essence" and protoss having "purity of form"
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On August 09 2010 03:06 Nik0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 01:00 brocoli wrote:
the "purity" refers to the will to make itself better, enhance itself
Zerg has "purity of form" - they can assimilate species into their own, and even modify them to some extent. Single individuals can also mutate to become drastically different
Protoss has "purity of essence" - with their powerful psionic powers and in the way (almost) their whole species communicates through the Khala. They are "good" beings and keep trying to make themselves better in that regard (even though often times they are overzealous).
Wasnt it the other way around? zerg having "purity of essence" and protoss having "purity of form"
No thats right, Zerg adapt to become the perfect form. For example they incorporate different species to make them zerg to allow them to surpass their limitations. Another way of explaining this is that zerg are biological on par with the Protoss (in combat) who are technologically advanced. The Zerg are the best physical form around.
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First off as far as I know we STILL don't officially know if the Voice of the Void and the master of the Hybrids (the Dark Voice) are the SAME. So you already departed from official lore.
Samir Duran is no where stated to be possessed by the Voice of the Void, which doesn't say it's wrong but all other possessed Terrans had some weird thing coming from their eyes and he lacks this. Again not definite proof against but it makes me conclude that Duran is a separate entity, he said he had many names over the centuries. What I like to make of that is that he may had been some of the critical people in early Protoss and late Terran history (for example Khass or the judicator who sent Adun against the DT, Duran ofc, maybe Narud... the implications are huge and interesting).
Narud being Duran is possible and would draw you to your conclusion because of the moebius guys responsible for the freedom of the Voice of the Void. But what makes me think otherwise is that it's just way to obvious, you know if Duran was such a master baddie would ha just reverse his name and think I am so smart lololol ? But considering how childish WoL was I wouldn't be surprised if you were correct.
And I wouldn't count the humans as simply tools. I would think of them as a variable that was not expected in the constants of the Xel'Nagas predictions. They can be a tool against them but can also work for their plan with groups like the Raiders.
In short an interesting idea but I think too obvious and then (hopefully) not true. Also I feel that Xel'Naga being made and saving everyone doesn't sit right.
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I just looked it up in the StarCraft 1 Manual and it says that the protoss had purity of form. Yet their individual minds and wills lead to unforeseen complications (civil war). After the Xel'Naga realized this, they tried to create the purity of essence - the zerg.
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On August 08 2010 23:19 Thegilaboy wrote:
So Duran isn't special, even though he claimed to be "many millennia old" and "having many names over these millennia" (Narud perhaps)? I think he is a bit more than just some Terran as you claim, but other than that it's a nice overview
The funny thing is, he can't have more than 5! = 120 names, since all of them would be a permutation of "Duran".
Oh, I forgot the first name, Samir, isn't it ? In that case the maximum number of names he can have is 5! x 5! = 14400 (quite a lot though)
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On August 08 2010 23:07 Rethq wrote:They reproduce by the 'Cycle'. The Cycle is a merging of 2 races - one with purity of essence, the other with purity of form. That means that every single Xel'naga is born of the merge. There are no births during the existence of one generation. Source:+ Show Spoiler +The xel'naga were incredibly long-lived by protoss standards, but not immortal; eventually their species would come to an end. In the interest of survival they planned to create new xel'naga by uplifting two species. A pair of qualities was required and these were defined by the xel'naga as the purity of essence and the purity of form, and each uplifted species would be targeted for one of them. Over an extraordinary long period of time, the two species would naturally come together and merge. http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Xel'naga
Lol... this makes me kinda glad I didn't play the campaign. That's the stupidest shit I've ever heard of.
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On August 09 2010 03:42 nemanja1503 wrote:
First off as far as I know we STILL don't officially know if the Voice of the Void and the master of the Hybrids (the Dark Voice) are the SAME. So you already departed from official lore.
Well, then we will have two Godlike entities with hatred to the Xel'naga, and with similar names.
And it's Voice in the Darkness, not Voice of the Void.
Even though I don't exclude this possibility, don't you think the chance for that is extremely low?
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Forgive my ignorance on the subject, but what IS the zerg? What was the first Zerg form?
I've read that lings, hydralisks, ultras etc etc were all assimilated into the zerg, but what was the first Zerg form? did they start with something? Maybe a drone?
Or maybe its a single cell organism?
Little grubs from a world called Zerus. The Larvae most resembles the original zerg. Quite Humbling aint it.
+ Show Spoiler +http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Zerus
Anyway OP, great post, but you left out one thing....
"She will break the Cycle of the Gods"
"Wait a minute...you're talking about about Kerrigan aren't you!"
"The Cycle of the Gods will be Broken"
Your OP however, is oriented around her continuing the cycle of the gods...and stopping the Hybrids.
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On August 09 2010 03:06 Nik0 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 01:00 brocoli wrote:
the "purity" refers to the will to make itself better, enhance itself
Zerg has "purity of form" - they can assimilate species into their own, and even modify them to some extent. Single individuals can also mutate to become drastically different
Protoss has "purity of essence" - with their powerful psionic powers and in the way (almost) their whole species communicates through the Khala. They are "good" beings and keep trying to make themselves better in that regard (even though often times they are overzealous).
Wasnt it the other way around? zerg having "purity of essence" and protoss having "purity of form"
Oops, it IS the other way around. For some reason I swapped the two words o_O.
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I like this version of SC's lore better than whatever Blizz is likely to come up with.
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Well what most resembles the original Zerg are the Cerebrates, they are literally giant versions of the original Zerg organism.
@Rethq
Even if it is far fetched that they aren't one the same. What you stated is rather obvious and that is my main argument. If this is their big plot twist then it fails due to predictability. Who the hell wants a to hear a story to which it knows the big surprise?
Also how do you explain it controlling Duran before it was released while he doesn't show any side effects?
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hm
the OP makes the whole starcraft story sound kinda cool. Makes me wonder why the WoL story was so shallow and boring.
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What doesn't make much sense in my opinion is why the hybrids come out as walking juggernauts. If the Xel'naga were the result of a previous merging, I just don't see it possible for the zerg or the Protoss to have done much damage to their bodies.
In fact, I think the power levels of the hybrids should be toned down in game. It should cost a lot of resources to fuel their near invincible bodies. They should be support unit like a defiler or a high templar, not a main attack unit.
The original picture that I got from SC1 was that the Xel'naga didn't care about merging the two species. It was the Overmind that wanted to harvest the DNA of the Protoss. The Xel'naga were very intrigued by the Protoss' purity of form, meaning their bodies were resistant to disease and other things that would affect us humans. They were also impressed by the natural telepathy of the Protoss. But the Protoss individuality and egos worked against the Xel'naga and the Xel'naga fled from the jealousy of the Protoss to their creators. So they worked specifically on creating a species with purity of essence, by introducing the Overmind into Zerg. The zerg didn't start with Purity of Essence, it was given to them by the Xel'naga. The Xel'naga liked the Zerg for their natural ability to harvest genetic material, but they feared the same rise of egos within the Zerg swarm so they sought to prevent that. It's when the Overmind realized that he could acquire the genetic material of mutalisks into the swarm that his war against Xel'naga was declared.
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On August 09 2010 01:12 Miles_Edgeworth wrote:
Protoss is purity of form. Zerg is purity of essence.
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On August 09 2010 03:45 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 23:19 Thegilaboy wrote:
So Duran isn't special, even though he claimed to be "many millennia old" and "having many names over these millennia" (Narud perhaps)? I think he is a bit more than just some Terran as you claim, but other than that it's a nice overview The funny thing is, he can't have more than 5! = 120 names, since all of them would be a permutation of "Duran". Oh, I forgot the first name, Samir, isn't it ? In that case the maximum number of names he can have is 5! x 5! = 14400 (quite a lot though)
No rule saying that super old beings have to keep the same letters in all of their pseudonyms :p
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At the very end of the dark templar trilogy, the phoenix creatures from the xel'naga temples (there are 3 recorded hatchings from the books, but many more creatures were implied) gather at a place in space and open some kind of wormhole into another place. Zeratul who has followed them flies the void seeker into this hole, and nothing more is heard from him before wings of liberty. I do not think that the temple he visits when whe first see him in starcraft 2 is his first destination, though, because in the books, Kerrigan was at Char at that time and was focused on an attack on a dark templar library on another planet. It seems unlikely for her to have followed Zeratul so quickly, and she didn't even seem to know about him leaving.
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I have a theory about the name "Xel'Naga". Perhaps in the last cycle the two merged races named Xel and Naga. In that case their next incarnation should be name Zerg'Protoss.
On August 09 2010 06:23 Thegilaboy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 03:45 kmdarkmaster wrote:
The funny thing is, he can't have more than 5! = 120 names, since all of them would be a permutation of "Duran".
Oh, I forgot the first name, Samir, isn't it ? In that case the maximum number of names he can have is 5! x 5! = 14400 (quite a lot though) No rule saying that super old beings have to keep the same letters in all of their pseudonyms :p
That doesn't matter, because he must use his real id in Blizzard forums anyway lool.
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On August 09 2010 06:10 DetriusXii wrote:
The original picture that I got from SC1 was that the Xel'naga didn't care about merging the two species. It was the Overmind that wanted to harvest the DNA of the Protoss. The Xel'naga were very intrigued by the Protoss' purity of form, meaning their bodies were resistant to disease and other things that would affect us humans. They were also impressed by the natural telepathy of the Protoss. But the Protoss individuality and egos worked against the Xel'naga and the Xel'naga fled from the jealousy of the Protoss to their creators. So they worked specifically on creating a species with purity of essence, by introducing the Overmind into Zerg. The zerg didn't start with Purity of Essence, it was given to them by the Xel'naga. The Xel'naga liked the Zerg for their natural ability to harvest genetic material, but they feared the same rise of egos within the Zerg swarm so they sought to prevent that. It's when the Overmind realized that he could acquire the genetic material of mutalisks into the swarm that his war against Xel'naga was declared.
If this was so, it has been retconned. Canon now is that the xel'naga formed both protoss and zerg to combine into the next cycle of xel'naga. They didn't leave the protoss because of any fault in the protoss, but because they had to create the zerg. The protoss, however believed that they were left because of some failure of theirs, and this has shaped much of their culture and society. Source: The dark templar trilogy.
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On August 09 2010 06:38 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 06:23 Thegilaboy wrote:On August 09 2010 03:45 kmdarkmaster wrote:
The funny thing is, he can't have more than 5! = 120 names, since all of them would be a permutation of "Duran".
Oh, I forgot the first name, Samir, isn't it ? In that case the maximum number of names he can have is 5! x 5! = 14400 (quite a lot though) No rule saying that super old beings have to keep the same letters in all of their pseudonyms :p That doesn't matter, because he must use his real id in Blizzard forums anyway lool.
And that's the story of how Battlenet 2.0 saved the day 
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On August 09 2010 04:41 7mk wrote:
hm
the OP makes the whole starcraft story sound kinda cool. Makes me wonder why the WoL story was so shallow and boring.
They always seem to confine the more interesting stuff to write ups in manuals, books, and comics. Hopefully, they bring more to light in HotS. We got a lot of pointless side missions in WoL. The only interesting parts were the zeratul and final missions (and those leading up it).
Also, it seems to me, that xel'naga is more of a title than actual race. The title of that being a race that possess both of what the xel'naga call purity of essence and form. Unless merely combining two races with those properties will always create the same xel'naga.
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its simple:
DURAN = NARUD spelled backwards
just like ARTANIS = SINATRA backwards
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There are still a few things that are confusing to me though. Could any of you lore guys try making sense of these statements?
"...the xel'naga that forged us all are returning. But do they come to save... or to destroy?"
Just a confusing statement in general. If they are returning to destroy, then that makes sense with the whole burning of the galaxy, but it contradicts the peaceful nature of the Xel'Naga. If it is the Dark Voice entity who is trying to destroy everyone with the hybrids, then why does Zeratul even mention the Xel'Naga?
"Of course I do. This creature is the completion of a cycle. Its role in the cosmic order was preordained when the stars were young. Behold the culmination of your history."
Completion of a cycle? Everything about this quote suggests the Zerg/Protoss hybrid is supposed to be a Xel'Naga. The stars were certainly young when the Xel'Naga became powerful. "Culmination of your history" refers to how the Protoss' purpose was to create the next generation of Xel'Naga.
"I've had many names throughout the millennia, young prodigal. You would know me best as Samir Duran."
Duran suggests that he is a shapeshifting Xel'Naga. Only a Xel'Naga or the Dark Voice could consider Zeratul as "young".
Then there is the Preserver Zamara describing the hybrids as a perversion of the natural order. This suggests that the hybrids might be a corrupted form of Xel'Naga, that the Dark Voice could wipe out the Xel'Naga by using the hybrids to block the natural cycle.
Finally, most confusing of all, is when the Dark Voice hints that he is a Xel'Naga. "As I was your beginning... so shall I be your end." The Xel'Naga were the beginning of the Protoss, yet this Dark Voice entity takes credit for that? I hope Blizzard's explanation for this contradiction isn't as simple as "he was lying" or "prophetic visions are not accurate".
As you can see, there are reasons to believe that the evil beings who want to conquer the sector with hybrids are Xel'Naga, which contradicts the lore, and there are also many reasons to believe they are enemies of the Xel'Naga, who claim to be the Xel'Naga. If I had to take a guess at what the real story is to explain these contradictions, I'd say that the Dark Voice is an entity who wants to destroy the Xel'Naga for good by blocking their reproductive cycle. Duran is a Xel'Naga who was corrupted by the Dark Voice long ago, and is now making hybrids because he believes this is part of the great cycle of Xel'Naga reproduction, not knowing that these hybrids are actually servants of the Dark Voice who will destroy the Xel'Naga forever. It still doesn't explain the Dark Voice claims to be the creator of the Protoss though.
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Dark Voice is Sargeras in space!!!
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I really don't see how you can read the Duran wikia article, cite it and then say he is a nobody human controlled by the Dark Voice and claim it as "official lore." Duran's origin is really unclear but by what he says, he probably isn't a human but serves under the Dark Voice. His dialogue doesn't really indicate that the dark voice is speaking through him and his voice isn't altered when he speaks it in the Dark Origin mission (besides the normal infested voice effects). Duran uses "I" when speaking clearly about Duran, so it would be odd for the Dark Voice to be speaking through him. Duran might be controlled one way or another but you really lack any real evidence to say Duran is a nobody human when the facts don't clearly point to that conclusion.
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On August 09 2010 08:32 Lightswarm wrote:
just like ARTANIS = SINATRA backwards
HOLY SHIT
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On August 09 2010 06:42 Maginor wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2010 06:10 DetriusXii wrote:
The original picture that I got from SC1 was that the Xel'naga didn't care about merging the two species. It was the Overmind that wanted to harvest the DNA of the Protoss. The Xel'naga were very intrigued by the Protoss' purity of form, meaning their bodies were resistant to disease and other things that would affect us humans. They were also impressed by the natural telepathy of the Protoss. But the Protoss individuality and egos worked against the Xel'naga and the Xel'naga fled from the jealousy of the Protoss to their creators. So they worked specifically on creating a species with purity of essence, by introducing the Overmind into Zerg. The zerg didn't start with Purity of Essence, it was given to them by the Xel'naga. The Xel'naga liked the Zerg for their natural ability to harvest genetic material, but they feared the same rise of egos within the Zerg swarm so they sought to prevent that. It's when the Overmind realized that he could acquire the genetic material of mutalisks into the swarm that his war against Xel'naga was declared.
If this was so, it has been retconned. Canon now is that the xel'naga formed both protoss and zerg to combine into the next cycle of xel'naga. They didn't leave the protoss because of any fault in the protoss, but because they had to create the zerg. The protoss, however believed that they were left because of some failure of theirs, and this has shaped much of their culture and society. Source: The dark templar trilogy.
I know. It seems like Blizzard retcons their story after every sequel to the game.
As a side note, I hate the introduction of a spirituality in science fiction settings. It's brought down several science fiction settings. Buffy Season 7 had a big bad that had no tangible limits and that could never be attacked directly. Battlestar Galactica resorted to the "God did it" solution to explain away the mysteries. The last few seasons of SG1 resorted to battling ascended beings that required several deus ex machinas in order to defeat them. A good story was told in SC1 when the story was about politics in the Koprulu sector. Blizzard should have retained a political focus rather than the spirituality stuff that they're resorting to.
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On August 09 2010 10:31 iamke55 wrote:
There are still a few things that are confusing to me though. Could any of you lore guys try making sense of these statements?
[1]"...the xel'naga that forged us all are returning. But do they come to save... or to destroy?"
Just a confusing statement in general. If they are returning to destroy, then that makes sense with the whole burning of the galaxy, but it contradicts the peaceful nature of the Xel'Naga. If it is the Dark Voice entity who is trying to destroy everyone with the hybrids, then why does Zeratul even mention the Xel'Naga?
[2]"Of course I do. This creature is the completion of a cycle. Its role in the cosmic order was preordained when the stars were young. Behold the culmination of your history."
Completion of a cycle? Everything about this quote suggests the Zerg/Protoss hybrid is supposed to be a Xel'Naga. The stars were certainly young when the Xel'Naga became powerful. "Culmination of your history" refers to how the Protoss' purpose was to create the next generation of Xel'Naga.
[3]"I've had many names throughout the millennia, young prodigal. You would know me best as Samir Duran."
Duran suggests that he is a shapeshifting Xel'Naga. Only a Xel'Naga or the Dark Voice could consider Zeratul as "young".
[4]Then there is the Preserver Zamara describing the hybrids as a perversion of the natural order. This suggests that the hybrids might be a corrupted form of Xel'Naga, that the Dark Voice could wipe out the Xel'Naga by using the hybrids to block the natural cycle.
[5]Finally, most confusing of all, is when the Dark Voice hints that he is a Xel'Naga. "As I was your beginning... so shall I be your end." The Xel'Naga were the beginning of the Protoss, yet this Dark Voice entity takes credit for that? I hope Blizzard's explanation for this contradiction isn't as simple as "he was lying" or "prophetic visions are not accurate".
As you can see, there are reasons to believe that the evil beings who want to conquer the sector with hybrids are Xel'Naga, which contradicts the lore, and there are also many reasons to believe they are enemies of the Xel'Naga, who claim to be the Xel'Naga. If I had to take a guess at what the real story is to explain these contradictions, I'd say that the Dark Voice is an entity who wants to destroy the Xel'Naga for good by blocking their reproductive cycle. Duran is a Xel'Naga who was corrupted by the Dark Voice long ago, and is now making hybrids because he believes this is part of the great cycle of Xel'Naga reproduction, not knowing that these hybrids are actually servants of the Dark Voice who will destroy the Xel'Naga forever. It still doesn't explain the Dark Voice claims to be the creator of the Protoss though.
Decided to number the points to make things easier to explain, btw most of my answer come from reading this thread....so you didn't read much of it I guess.
[1] - Zeratul does not know everything, tbh this could just be a way for Blizzard to get a bit of hype going for the return of them, if Zeratul had just said something like "The Xel'Naga are coming to save us". It would have had less of an impact, because although you don't know what these Xel'Naga really are you are already aware of their purpose an hence not as excited or curious about them.
[2] - I'm going to assume this is the "Dark Voice" 's quote, to which I would reply...well he is FALLEN, hence his morals/outlook on things were clearly different and perverse compared to that of the Xel'Naga, so he probably truly believes that his creation is the completion of the cycle.
[3] - Probably the easiest one, hes not really implying he shapeshifts, just thats hes used different names. Most likely due to him being possessed by some other being who has also possessed others in the past, and Zeratual would only have ever met the Samir Duran, as this is the possessor's current form (Note that what is possessing Duran could be anything, even a creature we have never heard of before).
[4] - I explained this sorta in the 2nd answer, but by perversion Zamara means just that, the hybrids are not the naturally end result for the Zerg and Protoss coming together.And it doesn't suggest that the hybrids could be used to kill the Xel'Naga, it just suggests that the "DarkVoice" most likely believes they can be used for something.
[5] - Actually this is the easiest one, he used to be a Xel'Naga, he became a fallen probably shortly after the creation of the Protoss or during the creation of the Zerg (since he helped create the toss it couldn't be before them, and since he influenced the overmind it couldn't be after the zerg attacked). Hence he was their beginning, and hes going to kill them so the Xel'Naga can't come back
Well thats what i got out of all this, could be wrong, but oh well.
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On August 09 2010 12:07 Shatter wrote:
I really don't see how you can read the Duran wikia article, cite it and then say he is a nobody human controlled by the Dark Voice and claim it as "official lore." Duran's origin is really unclear but by what he says, he probably isn't a human but serves under the Dark Voice. His dialogue doesn't really indicate that the dark voice is speaking through him and his voice isn't altered when he speaks it in the Dark Origin mission (besides the normal infested voice effects). Duran uses "I" when speaking clearly about Duran, so it would be odd for the Dark Voice to be speaking through him. Duran might be controlled one way or another but you really lack any real evidence to say Duran is a nobody human when the facts don't clearly point to that conclusion.
Read again, the body is that of a simple human, the mind is not. It is possible other powerful creatures have been subdued by the Dark Voice, but that I do not mention since I am basing this on official lore, not speculation (with the exception of the last 2 points).
If Blizzard reveals that there are such creatures, and one of them is possessing Duran, then your point stands. So far they have not.
On August 09 2010 04:37 nemanja1503 wrote:
@Rethq
Even if it is far fetched that they aren't one the same. What you stated is rather obvious and that is my main argument. If this is their big plot twist then it fails due to predictability. Who the hell wants a to hear a story to which it knows the big surprise?
Also how do you explain it controlling Duran before it was released while he doesn't show any side effects?
I didn't see a lot of topics about this, even if, according to you, it's easily predictable.
Also, how do you explain the Dark Voice controlling the Overmind, without the Overmind showing any side effects (remember the Xel'naga did not understand its sudden change in behavior), while the Dark Voice was imprisoned?
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wow all of this makes perfect sense. and all those sources to back it up. I cannot wait what is to happen!
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On August 09 2010 11:29 -Desu- wrote:
Dark Voice is Sargeras in space!!!
Haha Space Sargeras! Blizzard has worked on WoW just a little too long...
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Haha I was amazed too when i first heard Artanis <> Sinatra.
But about the story, I think it's starting to show a few too many signs that we're playing Warcraft in Space:
An immovable entity that is created by an older race (such as Demon Orc or Xel'Naga) leads a race by itself (like the Zerg or Undead) but needs to move out of it shell for future reasons so it corrupts a being from a different race (like Kerrigan or Arthas) to lead the race instead, and gets destroyed shortly after. The new leader (although somewhat evil) will be in a battle with the Humans and some other honourable race (or 2), but they're really the key to saving the universe from the Great Enemy known as the Burning Legi..uhh Void.
But great post, OP, I didn't feel like much of the story was shown in the campaign, but after all this discussion, it's become much more interesting. I think I'll go by most of the stuff in the post.
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Samir Duran really seems like a Xel'Naga to me. Whether his malevolence is characteristic of all Xel'Naga or if he's simply a rogue member of the race, I'm not sure. But in the Brood War mission where he is talking to Zeratul, he says:
"I've had many names throughout the millennia, young prodigal."
The use of the word "prodigal" is a biblical allusion to the parable of the prodigal son, where a father's rebellious son takes his inheritance and squanders it, only to come back later asking for forgiveness and a place at the servant's table. Though I don't think the relationship between the protoss and Xel'Naga will extend as far as the parable, I think its pretty clear that Duran is referring to Zeratul as a young son returning to his father/creator after a long absence. As the protoss were created or "uplifted" by the Xel'Naga, it would seem that Duran is a Xel'Naga.
I'm sure someone could explain this away or it could get retconned away. In any event, I'm sticking to Duran being a Xel'Naga and Narud being a Xel'Naga, if not Duran himself.
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When I read all this, I cant help but think ''bad storytelling''. The worst part is how I'm sure the OP is 100% accurate about where the serie is going.
I understand the Starcraft universe needs to reach a larger scope than just three races fighting each other all over again, but... the Dark voice? That's terribly uninspired. Also, it really kills everything that's exciting about Zerg if there's some mysterious force making them evil. Zerg should want to conquer everything they can by nature, that's what they are.
Just thinking about Zerg, Protoss and Terran fighting the Hybrids together reminds me of WC3 again, and how bad it was. ''Insert generic main bad guy here who wants to take possession of X generic mysterious object to destroy the entire world.''
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duran --> Narud. Maybe I shouldnt play the campaign straight through the night for 15 hrs. I might actually see that cleaver name change.
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occam's razer here guys...
dark voice
voice in the void
samir duran
dr narud
the fallen one.
ALL the same guy.
So I would put it at this:
-Xel'naga, not able to reproduce normally require 2 races, one pure of form one pure of essence to create the next generation
-Xel'naga create the protoss, pure of form, then leave the protoss to create the zerg
-Xel'naga create the zerg, Urdan decides he's had enough of the rest of the Xel'naga due to not conforming to his naming scheme, and goes all nihilist, wanting to break the cycle.
-Dranu then turns the overmind against the rest of the xel'naga, wiping them out. Now he just needs to kill all the protoss and the zerg and the cycle will be broken, so he turns the zerg loose on the protoss.
-Somewhere here, Rudna begins creating the protoss zerg hybrids, a basterdization of what a true merging would be, but extremely powerful none-the-less
-The overmind realises what is going to happen, visions and all that jazz, so he creates Kerrigan as the queen of blades to lead the zerg out of slavery.
-Andur realises that the overmind has done this, and jumps into his latest name Duran to lead the events of broodwar to hopefully go the way he wants, which is for kerrigan to die (see how he antagonized everyone and then left her to die in 'Omega' watch the mission briefing here, it is very spelled out that duran has abandoned her in the time she is most vulnerable)
-Dunar realises the futility of killing the queen of blades in her current 'class 12 psionic lifeform' status, so adopts his clever disguise as Narud (nobody will suspect him!) and enlists the help of his dominion buddies to get the artifacts he knows about, being a xel'naga himself unearthed and assembled to de-zergify kerrigan. He uses Jim because he knows A) kerrigan has a soft spot for him B) he is buddy buddy with the protoss and C) he has won against insurmountable zerg odds before (overmind on Aiur)
-Raynor goes to char, where Kerrigan's soft spot for him allows for a slightly easier then otherwise mission, where the only thing that saves kerrigan's life is the fact Raynor has seen the overmind's vision of the future, where kerrigan must live, making up his mind on time to stop the bullet from tychus and save her life. (reasoning here is the logic that only the viewing of future events can lead to their changing, so I'd put kerrigan living through that cinimatic as the key focal point of change from the vision's possible future.)
-Heart of the swarm will revolve around kerrigan being hunted by mensk, as well as the hybrids as they wrest control of the zerg from her weakened grasp (you must build up from scratch again)
-Undoubtedly Nardu will make an appearance and try to stop kerrigan, most likely with the backing of mensk.
and my baseless prediction:
Tassadar and the overmind have done a true merge and are a genuine next-gen xel'naga now. hence how tassadar says he will never die or somesuch (xel'naga are immortal or what-have-you)
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Actually realised, Nudar will likely leave mensk out to dry for all his war-crimes, and have prince Valarian step up and be the powerhouse, fueling his drive to kill Kerrigan even more then during WoL
Sorry if my swapping his name around confused people, just read every italicized name as the same guy...
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The protoss campaign will then be the big hurrah showdown, where you are fighting Nurda and his hybrids, who control a sizable amount of zerg still, even after (or maybe because of) the events of Heart of the Swarm as well as his Valerian lead dominion and probably some Tal'darim who worship him as a God because of him actually being a xel'naga. You then beat him in some epic last battle where you have to defend/attack some all-important xel'naga artifact/hybrid brain thing, after which you get a satisfying video of tassadar coming to save the day and zeratul sacrificing himself for the cause...
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On August 10 2010 06:06 Knightlax wrote:
Samir Duran really seems like a Xel'Naga to me. Whether his malevolence is characteristic of all Xel'Naga or if he's simply a rogue member of the race, I'm not sure. But in the Brood War mission where he is talking to Zeratul, he says:
"I've had many names throughout the millennia, young prodigal."
The use of the word "prodigal" is a biblical allusion to the parable of the prodigal son, where a father's rebellious son takes his inheritance and squanders it, only to come back later asking for forgiveness and a place at the servant's table. Though I don't think the relationship between the protoss and Xel'Naga will extend as far as the parable, I think its pretty clear that Duran is referring to Zeratul as a young son returning to his father/creator after a long absence. As the protoss were created or "uplifted" by the Xel'Naga, it would seem that Duran is a Xel'Naga.
I'm sure someone could explain this away or it could get retconned away. In any event, I'm sticking to Duran being a Xel'Naga and Narud being a Xel'Naga, if not Duran himself.
then why would duran try to destroy the xel naga by working with the dark voice?
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Am I the only one who can't help but think about Babylon 5 every time I read Starcraft lore?
...at least it's not Pocahontas.
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On August 10 2010 07:51 shawster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 06:06 Knightlax wrote:
Samir Duran really seems like a Xel'Naga to me. Whether his malevolence is characteristic of all Xel'Naga or if he's simply a rogue member of the race, I'm not sure. But in the Brood War mission where he is talking to Zeratul, he says:
"I've had many names throughout the millennia, young prodigal."
The use of the word "prodigal" is a biblical allusion to the parable of the prodigal son, where a father's rebellious son takes his inheritance and squanders it, only to come back later asking for forgiveness and a place at the servant's table. Though I don't think the relationship between the protoss and Xel'Naga will extend as far as the parable, I think its pretty clear that Duran is referring to Zeratul as a young son returning to his father/creator after a long absence. As the protoss were created or "uplifted" by the Xel'Naga, it would seem that Duran is a Xel'Naga.
I'm sure someone could explain this away or it could get retconned away. In any event, I'm sticking to Duran being a Xel'Naga and Narud being a Xel'Naga, if not Duran himself.
then why would duran try to destroy the xel naga by working with the dark voice?
because they didn't comply with his naming scheme!
seriously though, it's a rogue xel'naga out to break the cycle, hence the name 'Fallen One' used in utter darkness.
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On August 08 2010 23:19 Thegilaboy wrote:
So Duran isn't special, even though he claimed to be "many millennia old" and "having many names over these millennia" (Narud perhaps)? I think he is a bit more than just some Terran as you claim, but other than that it's a nice overview
Maybe Duran is being possessed by an agent of The Dark Voice. Thus his claims to being millenniums old, having many names, and working for a great power is all true.
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On August 10 2010 07:55 Shiladie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 07:51 shawster wrote:On August 10 2010 06:06 Knightlax wrote:
Samir Duran really seems like a Xel'Naga to me. Whether his malevolence is characteristic of all Xel'Naga or if he's simply a rogue member of the race, I'm not sure. But in the Brood War mission where he is talking to Zeratul, he says:
"I've had many names throughout the millennia, young prodigal."
The use of the word "prodigal" is a biblical allusion to the parable of the prodigal son, where a father's rebellious son takes his inheritance and squanders it, only to come back later asking for forgiveness and a place at the servant's table. Though I don't think the relationship between the protoss and Xel'Naga will extend as far as the parable, I think its pretty clear that Duran is referring to Zeratul as a young son returning to his father/creator after a long absence. As the protoss were created or "uplifted" by the Xel'Naga, it would seem that Duran is a Xel'Naga.
I'm sure someone could explain this away or it could get retconned away. In any event, I'm sticking to Duran being a Xel'Naga and Narud being a Xel'Naga, if not Duran himself.
then why would duran try to destroy the xel naga by working with the dark voice? because they didn't comply with his naming scheme! seriously though, it's a rogue xel'naga out to break the cycle, hence the name 'Fallen One' used in utter darkness.
Maybe Duran is being controlled by one of the Dark Voice's agents.
BTW maybe you should read more about the Dark Voice. He is not a Xel'Naga.
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On August 10 2010 08:40 deadbutmoving wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 07:55 Shiladie wrote:On August 10 2010 07:51 shawster wrote:On August 10 2010 06:06 Knightlax wrote:
Samir Duran really seems like a Xel'Naga to me. Whether his malevolence is characteristic of all Xel'Naga or if he's simply a rogue member of the race, I'm not sure. But in the Brood War mission where he is talking to Zeratul, he says:
"I've had many names throughout the millennia, young prodigal."
The use of the word "prodigal" is a biblical allusion to the parable of the prodigal son, where a father's rebellious son takes his inheritance and squanders it, only to come back later asking for forgiveness and a place at the servant's table. Though I don't think the relationship between the protoss and Xel'Naga will extend as far as the parable, I think its pretty clear that Duran is referring to Zeratul as a young son returning to his father/creator after a long absence. As the protoss were created or "uplifted" by the Xel'Naga, it would seem that Duran is a Xel'Naga.
I'm sure someone could explain this away or it could get retconned away. In any event, I'm sticking to Duran being a Xel'Naga and Narud being a Xel'Naga, if not Duran himself.
then why would duran try to destroy the xel naga by working with the dark voice? because they didn't comply with his naming scheme! seriously though, it's a rogue xel'naga out to break the cycle, hence the name 'Fallen One' used in utter darkness. Maybe Duran is being controlled by one of the Dark Voice's agents. BTW maybe you should read more about the Dark Voice. He is not a Xel'Naga.
where is he written about then? I'm taking my assertations that he is xel'naga in these:
-zeratul says the xel'naga are returning "... or to destroy" hinting at the big bad coming in to be a XN
-Dark voice says "I am your beginning and so shall I be your end" hinting that he had a definite hand in the creation of the protoss, meaning he is a XN
-making up new races of all-powerful immortal beings when there is already one he could be a fallen member of violates occam's razer.
edit:
I'm actually curious, if you have a source that says otherwise I really want to read it so I'm not way off on the wrong track on these things...
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[QUOTE]On August 08 2010 23:07 Rethq wrote:
Hello TL,
Vision of the future.
The only way to defeat the Dark Voice and its army of hybrids is to bring back the Xel'naga. The Xel'naga, if you have been reading is a merge of 2 races. These 2 races currently are zerg and protoss.
You can't do that if you don't have zerg.
Thus you need control of the zerg.
Thus you need Kerrigan alive.
There is a big logical flaw in your theory leading to this point: Xel naga created the overmind to create new Xel naga, but kerrigan is not the overmind, she has free will, and she dosent have to merge anything she dont want to ( well mayb with raynor, she always had a soft spot for him :D)
Therefore there is no reason why she should be the answer to stop the DarkVoice´s hybrids.
There is a logical flaw in your reasoning that leads to this point:
It was the overmind that had no free will, and had to create new xel naga, kerrigan has no free will, sho she dosent have to merge with anything (well mayb raynor, she always had a soft spot for him :D).
I think that if the xel naga and the dark voice are like "The Big guys" and the zerg and protoss are the xel nagas rebirth, that leaves the terran ... like an ant compared to the galaxy? :D.
Also as far as i know the protoss were abandoned by the xel naga becouse the xel naga were dissapointed in them (starcraft manual is the source for this), and the protoss dont really feel like merging with the zerg .
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Calling it now:
First true Protoss / Zerg hybrids (and therefore first of the next generation of Xel'Naga):
Tassadar and the Overmind.
EDIT: Goddammit, Shiladie called it first ><
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Raynor will become half-protoss and then this problem will solve itself... sexily 
Sorry for spoiling the mainplot of all the games there. You know the secret ingredient for any epic cosmic merging is looooooove... always the love.
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On August 10 2010 09:02 Shiladie wrote:
where is he written about then? I'm taking my assertations that he is xel'naga in these:
-zeratul says the xel'naga are returning "... or to destroy" hinting at the big bad coming in to be a XN
-Dark voice says "I am your beginning and so shall I be your end" hinting that he had a definite hand in the creation of the protoss, meaning he is a XN
-making up new races of all-powerful immortal beings when there is already one he could be a fallen member of violates occam's razer.
edit:
I'm actually curious, if you have a source that says otherwise I really want to read it so I'm not way off on the wrong track on these things...
Zeratul, doesn't have enough information to know about the nature of the Xel'naga. He hasn't read the manual.
I'm shooting in the dark here, but it's entirely possible that the Dark Voice is exceedingly bad-ass, and was in fact creator of the Zerg and Protoss. He created them in such a way that they are easily manipulatable (easy control for him of the Overmind), and stubborn, refusing change (Protoss religion and way of thinking).
He then lured the Xel'naga into choosing these two races. Remember that even the Xel'naga were surprised at how perfect the Zerg and Protoss were in the qualities purity of essence and purity of form.
And please, get it straight, the Xel'naga do not create the races, they just speed their evolution...
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On August 10 2010 07:52 REM.ca wrote:
Am I the only one who can't help but think about Babylon 5 every time I read Starcraft lore?
...at least it's not Pocahontas.
The Fallen One does sound awefully lot like Ctulhu, imho. The way it controls people into doing his bidding (Overmind, Duran, etc), and has a great scheme of his own which affects everything and everyone, without them even knowing it's there.
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On August 10 2010 07:32 Shiladie wrote:
occam's razer here guys...
...
much stuff
Great post, terrible lore
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What really pisses me off about this is that terrans are just stupid meatballs that are inferiors and most of the times just tools. We have the siege tank people WTF?
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On August 10 2010 10:39 Zato-1 wrote:
Calling it now:
First true Protoss / Zerg hybrids (and therefore first of the next generation of Xel'Naga):
Tassadar and the Overmind.
EDIT: Goddammit, Shiladie called it first ><
Calling it now:
First true Xel'Naga:
Kerrigan.
Human body, became a zerg, purifiey by a xel-naga artifact, well and in the next 2 campaigns, she will somehow mix up with a protoss.
And end up a Xel'Naga saving the universe.
I really hope it doesn´t end this way... but you never know.
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....... just for the record, a zerg can't just "merge" with a protoss. The Protoss need to be assimilated by the Zerg (this was the Xel'Naga's plan) for the cycle to be complete, ie, the Protoss and the Zerg are no longer 2 seperate races, they become one.
Now, obviously this can't happen, or we will only have 2 races, xel'naga and terran, and the game will be dead. Or there will be 4 (with off-shoots of zerg and protoss that didn't get assimilated), and the game as we know it will be dead (unless they make a xel'naga single player only expansion with no relation to the multiplayer at all. which I highly doubt, not impossible but very doubtful)
Basically I believe the cycle will never be complete, and the status-quo will continue. The Hybrids we fought in WoL (as protoss) had already destroyed the Zerg and the Terran were nowhere to be found. There's nothing to say the three races together can't, and wont be able to destroy the hybrids and send the dark voice back to whatever dark corner of the universe he crawled out of.
Look at Blizzard's other games, it's very rare that a storyline gets wrapped up nice and neatly, let alone an IP ending storyline...
TLDR: The xel'naga don't need to come back, sure it could happen, but that could easily be millenia down the time-line. The 3 races fight together to win. End of story. Cya later.
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On August 10 2010 16:35 oo_xerox wrote:
What really pisses me off about this is that terrans are just stupid meatballs that are inferiors and most of the times just tools. We have the siege tank people WTF?
Lool because you need one of the "purities" to be "superior", and a race that use lame turtle stats will never have that wonderful purity.
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On August 10 2010 19:11 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 16:35 oo_xerox wrote:
What really pisses me off about this is that terrans are just stupid meatballs that are inferiors and most of the times just tools. We have the siege tank people WTF? Lool because you need one of the "purities" to be "superior", and a race that use lame turtle stats will never have that wonderful purity.
Terran was created third, with purity of tanks.
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Tassadar/Overmind Xel'Naga would be horrible :<
I want to see a Tassadar/Zeratul Archon that will implode the universe upon berth from the sheer amount of awesomeness it would create :|
This lore is cool, I assume it's from the SC2 CE manual, yes?
I suspected as much that Samir Duran was just a human shell for some kind of superior being that possessed him.
So is the Dark Voice a Xel'Naga himself or not finally. After reading this thread and all the responses I'm a little confused.
Is he a rebel Xel'Naga that got outcast and imprisoned for non-conformism and that is now trying to break the cycle, or is he of another species entirely that maybe had some kind of conflict with the Xel'Naga long ago and now wants revenge?.
And is Voice in the Darkness even the Dark Voice that we see in SC2 in the visions?
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+ Show Spoiler +I believe that the Dark Voice is either Tassadar or the Tal'diram (hope I'm spelling that right) executor.
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On August 10 2010 19:17 Klumaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2010 19:11 kmdarkmaster wrote:On August 10 2010 16:35 oo_xerox wrote:
What really pisses me off about this is that terrans are just stupid meatballs that are inferiors and most of the times just tools. We have the siege tank people WTF? Lool because you need one of the "purities" to be "superior", and a race that use lame turtle stats will never have that wonderful purity. Terran was created third, with purity of tanks.
Hah - that made me laugh.
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On August 10 2010 16:35 oo_xerox wrote:
What really pisses me off about this is that terrans are just stupid meatballs that are inferiors and most of the times just tools.
Which is EXACTLY why they're going to be the key to saving the universe.
Every story I've ever read about a war between two superior races that consider humans like insects has ended up being resolved by those insects stepping up.
It's a classic.
WoL is already a huge step in that direction.
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Thank you for this topic OP. I also think this explains a lot of stuff from WoL, especially stuff that people have been complaining about.
The SC2 story is much more complex then most of you think, I suggest you inform yourself before opening useless QQ topics about the story. Unlike Holywood movie you are not going to be handheld the whole way so learn to think for yourself.
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Very creative posts guys. Don't forget that we have to leave room for a Starcraft MMO, or Kotick will be displeased.
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On August 08 2010 23:07 Rethq wrote:
Hybrids.
They possess no free will, thus no purity of form or essence, thus they cannot be real Xel'naga.
![[image loading]](http://a.imageshack.us/img237/6833/xelnaga.th.jpg)
Direct link: http://a.imageshack.us/img237/6833/xelnaga.jpg
Either they are labeled wrongly, or hybrids are very much Xel'naga. I'm not going to pass off game data as fact because there are plenty of things that are mislabeled, but this surely ranks above speculation.
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On August 14 2010 16:54 Eiviyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 23:07 Rethq wrote:
Hybrids.
They possess no free will, thus no purity of form or essence, thus they cannot be real Xel'naga. Direct link: http://a.imageshack.us/img237/6833/xelnaga.jpgEither they are labeled wrongly, or hybrids are very much Xel'naga. I'm not going to pass off game data as fact because there are plenty of things that are mislabeled, but this surely ranks above speculation.
Heh... if you haven't noticed I've noted things that are personal speculation, that generally means the things not marked that way are not speculation.
If you bothered to read the topic, a person asked about the ways to create Xel'naga. The Xel'naga, by definition are a merge of two races, one with purity... do I really have to do this again?
Hybrids are one of the 3 possible ways to create Xel'naga. One of these ways (Protoss infestation) has officially been deemed impossible. Hybrids are the 2nd way, the 'perversion' of the cycle, quoted by a Protoss preserver called Zamara (read OP and the rest of the topic).
You might have noticed I say real Xel'naga. The Hybrids are Xel'naga in form, but they do not possess the purities. Every advanced race can create purity of form or essence by genetic alteration, however, the Xel'naga scour the universe for naturally developed purities.
The question still stands whether these qualities in the Protoss and the Zerg developed naturally or were boosted by the one known as Dark Voice.
By all means, the Hybrids are Xel'naga, I never said they aren't. They aren't the real Xel'naga though.
Think about it like this, you have a zombie in a movie. Is the zombie a real human or just a mindless husk?
There is a big difference, don't you think?
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I have read the whole thread. Twice, even. Once a few days ago and once today before posting. I'm going to write off the pedantic nature of the first half of your post as a bad day or something, because it is quite unwarranted. If you feel it is warranted, then you can save yourself some trouble and stop reading right here.
That's a lot of speculation right there. You said yourself that Xel'naga is more of a title than a race. Fact is that zerg and protoss possess the purities. Another fact is that Xel'naga are the combination of two races with these purities. What is speculation is how those two races combined. You cannot rule out hybrids as not being "real" Xel'naga.
I'm not even sure what you're intending to mean by "real" Xel'naga. Never has it been implicitly stated how the merging occurs, and I'm a little confused over how Zeratul even knows that the hybrids are a perversion of the cycle and not part of the cycle itself. By all means if I've missed some key point that explains that, feel free to call me out on this paragraph.
I think a more fair and well rounded statement is that the original Xel'naga that uplifted the Protoss and Zerg are benevolent. The hybrids, while possessing much of the same identities, are malevolent. I don't think you can draw any other conclusion at this point other than an obvious conflict between the two Xel'naga types in the future.
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so is kerrigan gonna have to bone a protoss or something?
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I might be a Captain Obvious for this one, but... "Narud" is "Duran" backwards. I have to say this, but I don't know if it makes any sense.
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On August 14 2010 21:35 keioh wrote:
I might be a Captain Obvious for this one, but... "Narud" is "Duran" backwards. I have to say this, but I don't know if it makes any sense.
I'm not saying he isn't Duran because in all likelyhood, Narud probably is Duran, but I just can't see his motivation.
Duran would want to kill Kerrigan for his hybrids to prosper, referencing the "In Utter Darkness" dialog. Narud, however, is basically working to save Kerrigan. That's rather conflicting.
Although that opens the plot twist of Duran not being able to kill Kerrigan in her zerg form, but as Narud he can use Raynor to weaken her with the artifact and then kill her.
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On August 10 2010 20:20 Latham wrote:
Tassadar/Overmind Xel'Naga would be horrible :<
I want to see a Tassadar/Zeratul Archon that will implode the universe upon berth from the sheer amount of awesomeness it would create :|
There's just one problem though.
Archons suck in in SC2 ¬¬
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I would like to note one thing....
I've seen people explain similar things about the Hybrids... but one thing that was actually from Blizzard disagrees with this.
If you look in the actual files (not the in-game versions)... the Hybrid Destroyers (the bright-colored Hybrids) were actually named "Xel Naga Destroyers"....
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There needs to be a frigging better name for the bad guy than Dark Voice.
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On August 14 2010 19:31 Eiviyn wrote:
...
That's a lot of speculation right there. You said yourself that Xel'naga is more of a title than a race. Fact is that zerg and protoss possess the purities. Another fact is that Xel'naga are the combination of two races with these purities. What is speculation is how those two races combined. You cannot rule out hybrids as not being "real" Xel'naga.
I'm not even sure what you're intending to mean by "real" Xel'naga. Never has it been implicitly stated how the merging occurs, and I'm a little confused over how Zeratul even knows that the hybrids are a perversion of the cycle and not part of the cycle itself. By all means if I've missed some key point that explains that, feel free to call me out on this paragraph.
I think a more fair and well rounded statement is that the original Xel'naga that uplifted the Protoss and Zerg are benevolent. The hybrids, while possessing much of the same identities, are malevolent. I don't think you can draw any other conclusion at this point other than an obvious conflict between the two Xel'naga types in the future.
"Each iteration of the xel'naga life cycle culminated in the "natural mergings" of other species which possessed purity of form and essence"
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Hybrid
"Over an extraordinary long period of time, the two species would naturally come together and merge."
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Xel'naga
The key word here is natural.
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Thanks for the post but you might want to add what purity of essence and form(generally) mean.
Purity of essence is pretty much the ability for one species to survive by evolution. The zerg represents it by absorbing species and evolving to suite any situation.
Purity of form is individual ability. The protoss have this in the form of psi powers and their khaila.
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On August 15 2010 03:45 Rethq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 19:31 Eiviyn wrote:
...
That's a lot of speculation right there. You said yourself that Xel'naga is more of a title than a race. Fact is that zerg and protoss possess the purities. Another fact is that Xel'naga are the combination of two races with these purities. What is speculation is how those two races combined. You cannot rule out hybrids as not being "real" Xel'naga.
I'm not even sure what you're intending to mean by "real" Xel'naga. Never has it been implicitly stated how the merging occurs, and I'm a little confused over how Zeratul even knows that the hybrids are a perversion of the cycle and not part of the cycle itself. By all means if I've missed some key point that explains that, feel free to call me out on this paragraph.
I think a more fair and well rounded statement is that the original Xel'naga that uplifted the Protoss and Zerg are benevolent. The hybrids, while possessing much of the same identities, are malevolent. I don't think you can draw any other conclusion at this point other than an obvious conflict between the two Xel'naga types in the future. "Each iteration of the xel'naga life cycle culminated in the "natural mergings" of other species which possessed purity of form and essence" http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Hybrid"Over an extraordinary long period of time, the two species would naturally come together and merge." http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Xel'nagaThe key word here is natural.
How would zerg and protoss merge naturally if the zerg can't infest the protoss?
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On August 15 2010 04:48 buhhy wrote:
How would zerg and protoss merge naturally if the zerg can't infest the protoss?
We don't know how the merging itself works. Blizzard haven't disclosed anything about it.
A speculation would be that the Phoenix (or Energy) creatures have something to do with the merging process, but that is as good as any another speculation that is not confirmed by Blizzard.
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On August 14 2010 22:20 Eiviyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2010 21:35 keioh wrote:
I might be a Captain Obvious for this one, but... "Narud" is "Duran" backwards. I have to say this, but I don't know if it makes any sense. I'm not saying he isn't Duran because in all likelyhood, Narud probably is Duran, but I just can't see his motivation. Duran would want to kill Kerrigan for his hybrids to prosper, referencing the "In Utter Darkness" dialog. Narud, however, is basically working to save Kerrigan. That's rather conflicting. Although that opens the plot twist of Duran not being able to kill Kerrigan in her zerg form, but as Narud he can use Raynor to weaken her with the artifact and then kill her.
So if Narud was the one to inform the dominion/ control Raynor to collect these artifacts, then what sprung Kerrigan to want these? Maybe if Narud went back into his old Duran form, and inform her (unlikely but why else would kerrigan want these), This puts Kerrigan in danger, (she comes out into the open world and becomes human again) which is what Duran wants? It isn't just coincidence that Moebius and Kerrigan wants these things at the same time.
Sorry if I'm not making any sense here. But I'm just trying to speculate what sprung Kerrigan to want these.
EDIT: this backs up the theory that Narud is Duran
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The key word might be natural, but just like your use of the word real previously in this thread, it has no meaning outside speculation.
Granted, splicing DNA is unlikely to be qualified as being natural, however, given the assumption that the hybrids are Xel'naga, then it must be natural enough.
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On August 15 2010 06:03 Elegance wrote:
So if Narud was the one to inform the dominion/ control Raynor to collect these artifacts, then what sprung Kerrigan to want these? Maybe if Narud went back into his old Duran form, and inform her (unlikely but why else would kerrigan want these), This puts Kerrigan in danger, (she comes out into the open world and becomes human again) which is what Duran wants? It isn't just coincidence that Moebius and Kerrigan wants these things at the same time.
Sorry if I'm not making any sense here. But I'm just trying to speculate what sprung Kerrigan to want these.
EDIT: this backs up the theory that Narud is Duran
Impossible to tell right now, hopefully it is explained why Kerrigan wanted those artifacts in HotS otherwise it'd be a rather annoying plot hole.
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Good read, fills in some of the gaps with comforting speculation (backed by sources, of course), I guess we'll just have to wait and see where th story goes from here.
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I just replayed SCII and noticed some more probs with your idea.
First if you look at the dark voice's portrait you will notice that he looks like a weird Protoss, meaning he is probably wearing a Hybrid skin (or maybe even a previous Xel'Naga incarnation), however the Voice in the Dark looks like a giant tentacled blob, most closely resembling C'thun from warcraft (in personality as well I might add >_< ). Any way this is further proof to me that they AREN'T the same.
Secondly, during In Utter Darkness he (the Dark Voice) says "As I was your beginning so shall I be your end." Meaning that he had a hand in the creation of the Protoss, this means he had to be a Xel'Naga because nothing went wrong with the Protoss experiment and the entity was imprisoned at the time. We also know that the Voice in the Dark was destroying civilizations when he was stopped by the Xel'Naga who just arrived meaning he couldn't be a Xel'Naga himself, so clearly the two entities are not one the same.
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On August 15 2010 06:08 Eiviyn wrote:The key word might be natural, but just like your use of the word real previously in this thread, it has no meaning outside speculation. Granted, splicing DNA is unlikely to be qualified as being natural, however, given the assumption that the hybrids are Xel'naga, then it must be natural enough.
"The xel'naga will not be reborn. Instead, a monstrous and powerful perversion of both protoss and zerg will be set loose upon the universe, and all that we know and cherish will fall in their wake."
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Hybrid
Is this finally good enough for you?
I mean, if you have a problem with the content of the wiki, take it to them, I am merely quoting them.
On August 15 2010 07:41 nemanja1503 wrote:
I just replayed SCII and noticed some more probs with your idea.
First if you look at the dark voice's portrait you will notice that he looks like a weird Protoss, meaning he is probably wearing a Hybrid skin (or maybe even a previous Xel'Naga incarnation), however the Voice in the Dark looks like a giant tentacled blob, most closely resembling C'thun from warcraft (in personality as well I might add >_< ). Any way this is further proof to me that they AREN'T the same.
Secondly, during In Utter Darkness he (the Dark Voice) says "As I was your beginning so shall I be your end." Meaning that he had a hand in the creation of the Protoss, this means he had to be a Xel'Naga because nothing went wrong with the Protoss experiment and the entity was imprisoned at the time. We also know that the Voice in the Dark was destroying civilizations when he was stopped by the Xel'Naga who just arrived meaning he couldn't be a Xel'Naga himself, so clearly the two entities are not one the same.
We had this discussion about the Voice in the Dark and the Dark Voice a couple of pages ago, and reached a conclusion that it is unlikely that two super-powerful, hostile to the Xel'naga creatures, which boast to be the 'one true God', exist in the same galaxy, are unaware of each other, and have similar names.
Furthermore, the real face of the Dark Voice, or it's physical manifestation may be different than the possessed Hybrid shown in the campaign. It is entirely possible that Blizzard haven't thought of the future of the story themselves.
Also, a couple of pages back, I said that the Xel'naga, who accelerated the evolution of the Protoss and Zerg, are not their true creators. Although I am repeating myself, I'll say it once again. In it's centre, purity of essence and form are naturally developed traits, that's why the Xel'naga scour the universe for species having developed them.
That means the Xel'naga are not the creators of the Protoss and the Zerg and a Xel'naga would most probably never boast they did so (take their benevolent nature and way of thinking).
Furthermore if indeed, and chance is very high, Voice in the Dark and the Dark Voice are the same entity, it was already imprisoned when the Xel'naga traveled to Aiur.
The boast of the Dark Voice that he was the creator of the Protoss and Zerg does not make him a Xel'naga. On the contrary, it solidifies the idea he is not.
Here we go into speculation, I already said that it is completely possible that the Dark Voice is so powerful that he lured the Xel'naga into choosing races which he has created himself. That explains why would he boast that he was the beginning of the Protoss and the Zerg.
It is possible that the Protoss and the Zerg were created with flaws the Dark Voice could exploit (Protoss being religiously fanatic and opposing change and the Zerg being easy to manipulate - even Terrans used Zerg for their own aim, remember?; also explains how the Overmind, who is a Xel'naga creation based on Zerg DNA fell under the influence of the Dark Voice, while the Dark Voice was imprisoned).
Here Terrans step in as a balancing factor the Dark Voice could not envision. And, for all you Human-lovers, they become much more important. Tassadar broke with the Conclave due to humans, Zerg leadership was changed due to humans, the Khalai and Nerazim came together and overcame their differences with the help of humans.
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I have a complaint about the Xel'naga. Why did they give up sex and sexual reproduction in the first place? Merging of two species in separate corners of the galaxy is a ridiculous method of reproduction.
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On August 23 2010 13:47 DetriusXii wrote:
I have a complaint about the Xel'naga. Why did they give up sex and sexual reproduction in the first place? Merging of two species in separate corners of the galaxy is a ridiculous method of reproduction.
Since when did you get to pick the way you were able to reproduce?
Anyways, great piece together of the random tidbits of lore I have read over the years. I am a little confused on how the 2 races make Xel Naga, did I miss something?
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On August 14 2010 22:20 Eiviyn wrote:
I'm not saying he isn't Duran because in all likelyhood, Narud probably is Duran, but I just can't see his motivation.
Duran would want to kill Kerrigan for his hybrids to prosper, referencing the "In Utter Darkness" dialog. Narud, however, is basically working to save Kerrigan. That's rather conflicting.
Although that opens the plot twist of Duran not being able to kill Kerrigan in her zerg form, but as Narud he can use Raynor to weaken her with the artifact and then kill her.
Don't forget, as Narud (as a Moebius leader), he blackmailed Tychus to try to kill her. I'm going to go with the "she can't be killed easily in Zerg form" theory. Note that WoL ends with battlecruisers flying overhead. Something tells me that HotS starts off escaping from the Terrans on Char.
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I have this really dirty feeling that Valerian is going to somehow end up himself being/becoming an alien(either dark voice race, or become new zerg king). Blizzard is known to recycle characters/plot twists, and he has that Arthas vibe haha. His obsession with artifacts+ moebius ties to dark ones and the mengsk factories making hybrids seems like it could come together somehow.
Maybe by the end of zerg campaign he gets some control of zerg to keep them "evil" in protoss campaign.
edit: Maybe the dark voice are like exiled or radical militant xelnaga that had other goals?
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Interesting (if inconclusive) data point:
In the game data files, the "Dark Voice" portrait is filed under Protoss, and if you open the portrait in the editor and zoom out it's quite obviously a protoss.
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sorry if this has been answered, but where is everyone coming up with this dr. narud? was he in the secret mission that i have yet to unlock? i don't recall seeing him anywhere in sc2 =[[[
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On August 24 2010 09:13 KillerPlague wrote:
sorry if this has been answered, but where is everyone coming up with this dr. narud? was he in the secret mission that i have yet to unlock? i don't recall seeing him anywhere in sc2 =[[[
He's the leader of the Moebius foundation in the Moebius factor mission. He also has the same facial hair as Samir Duran. Kerrigan claims to see through his "Dr. Narud" charade.
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Really good points made by the OP in every post he made in this thread - a commendable effort. Hell, I consider myself a lore freak but a few points you made put some things into a better perspective, I never thought I'd say that
The only problem is the flood of stupid replies this has gotten, questions asked which are answered in the topic / in the wiki links. Some people just can't grasp things which are more complicated than a Hollywood movie plot it seems =\
Personally I think Blizzard is doing a great job with the plot so far (despite WoL being pretty predictable and Hollywood love story-like all along. Oh and I mentioned this elsewhere once, the only thing which irks me is the lack of UED activity. I'm sure they kinda noticed that nothing made it back from their expeditionary fleet 5 years ago.)
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Actually, it is quite simple:
Dark Voice = Space Diablo
Tassadar = Space Archangel Gabriel
Valerian = Space Arthas
Ulrezaj = Space Illidan
Tychus = Space Grom Hellscream
Zeratul = Ninja Space Deckard Cain
Raynor = Space Guybrush Threepwood
Recycling character designs for better sustainability in the future.
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On August 24 2010 11:57 brocoli wrote:
Actually, it is quite simple:
Dark Voice = Space Diablo
Tassadar = Space Archangel Gabriel
Valerian = Space Arthas
Ulrezaj = Space Illidan
Tychus = Space Grom Hellscream
Zeratul = Ninja Space Deckard Cain
Raynor = Space Guybrush Threepwood
Recycling character designs for better sustainability in the future.
Awesome. I don't know who half those guys are but the idea of Ninja Space Deckard Cain is pretty much the best thing ever.
Ever.
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=D
But on a more serious note:
On August 15 2010 18:40 Rethq wrote:
The boast of the Dark Voice that he was the creator of the Protoss and Zerg does not make him a Xel'naga. On the contrary, it solidifies the idea he is not.
Here we go into speculation, I already said that it is completely possible that the Dark Voice is so powerful that he lured the Xel'naga into choosing races which he has created himself. That explains why would he boast that he was the beginning of the Protoss and the Zerg.
It is possible that the Protoss and the Zerg were created with flaws the Dark Voice could exploit (Protoss being religiously fanatic and opposing change and the Zerg being easy to manipulate - even Terrans used Zerg for their own aim, remember?; also explains how the Overmind, who is a Xel'naga creation based on Zerg DNA fell under the influence of the Dark Voice, while the Dark Voice was imprisoned).
Here Terrans step in as a balancing factor the Dark Voice could not envision. And, for all you Human-lovers, they become much more important. Tassadar broke with the Conclave due to humans, Zerg leadership was changed due to humans, the Khalai and Nerazim came together and overcame their differences with the help of humans.
This makes So much sense, and is also quite awesome...
...but I don't have enough faith that this new Blizzard would be able to come up with such an amazing story =/
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quite unreliable info if you ask me, well at least parts of it.
Don't think what you wrote is really correct and it may go any way.
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Great synthesis of the various loose threads that blizzard keep tossing everywhere. As a huge lore fan my only disappointment with WoL was the it raises more questions than answers, twelve years after SC, which is even worse when considering that the in lore time progression was three times slower than real life time -.-
My greatest fear is that in WoL even Blizzard appears hesistant on pinpointing the relationship between Xel'Naga and the hybrids. In the missions you can feel constent waffling on the role of Xel'Naga from missions to missions: even groups like Tal'darim seems confused on which 'God''s will they are servign. Until I read your theory, I was quite dumbfound by the about-face between the benevolent Xel'Naga of SC1 and the vile hybrids (and dark voice), despite similarity in background and omnipotence. I hope the lore people in Blizzard go through their various leads like you did and straighten it out. The last thing we need is another Matrix where we the real lore fans are forced into group amnesia from the sequels.
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I wouldnt discount the posibility of a fourth race, remember undead in wc3?
I can already see the threads
xel naga imba
why xelnaga is OP
10 changes I would make to fix xelnaga
xelnaga erradicator, the answer to terran mech
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Post #1:
First, thanks to the OP for making this thread, and for providing the bulk of the lore in this thread.
Secondly, do not assume anything in this thread to be 100% conclusive, because we all know how fond Blizzard is of retcons.
Thirdly (and this is a technicality), I do not guarantee that the quotes used in this post are worded properly, though the wording isn't changed enough to alter the meaning of the quotes. This is merely because I cannot remember the exact wording, and do not want to look up the exact wording for each quote I use.
In this post I will assume the following:
The hybrids are not Xel'Naga.
The Dark Voice and the KL-2 Entity (Voice in the Darkness) are one and the same.
I will elaborate on both of these points further on.
All that being said, I agree with most of what the OP has stated thus far, but not with the vast majority of the other posts in this thread.
The first issue I have is with the quote, "As I was your beginning, so shall I be your end," and its interpretation by those who have discussed it. This quote does not imply that the Dark Voice had a hand in the creation of the Protoss. The KL-2 Entity is known to be at least as old as the Xel'Naga, if not older. Therefore, it is possible the Dark Voice is speaking to Zeratul not as a Protoss but more as an inhabitant of the universe, implying that the Dark Voice may have had a hand in (or believes it had a hand in) the creation of the universe and/or its inhabitants. Short version - the other posters' interpretation of this quote is being skewed because they assume the Dark Voice addresses Zeratul specifically as a Protoss, when it is possible that he addresses Zeratul merely as a sentient life form.
Secondly, the debate as to whether the hybrids are the next generation of Xel'Naga. I do not believe they are, because the original Xel'Naga did not manually merge Protoss and Zerg DNA as Duran did, but rather sped up their evolution to help them reach the point when they would merge naturally through evolution. The natural merging of the Protoss and Zerg would also produce Protoss/Zerg hybrids, but they would also be Xel'Naga. The Xel'Naga (as the OP mentioned) are not a race of their own, but are instead the perfect product of the natural merging of two other species. None of the generations of Xel'Naga (as we don't know how many reincarnations there have actually been) are genetically related to one another, so "Xel'Naga" becomes more of a title than the name of a species. Short version - The hybrids are not Xel'Naga because of the way they were created, though they may be as powerful or more than the actual Xel'Naga.
Thirdly (and this came up less frequently than the above two issues), the overmind and its role in the story, as well as some basic Xel'Naga backstory. The Xel'Naga originally found purity of form in the Protoss, but seeing their tribal ways (Aeon of Strife) they sought purity of essence, and found it in the Zerg. To organize the Zerg the Xel'Naga created the Overmind. The Overmind was influenced by the Dark Voice (not the Xel'Naga) to destroy the Protoss. When it came time for the Zerg to leave Zerus, they assimilated the Behemoths - not mutalisks.
The goal of the Xel'Naga was not necessarily for the Zerg to assimilate the Protoss, as that idea was the Overmind's. Regardless, the Protoss could not be infested due to the Khala.
The Overmind did not want to destroy the Protoss, but it had no choice; however, it had seen the outcome of the Dark Voice's plan in a vision and created the Queen of Blades (Kerrigan) to prevent this future (as the Dark Voice could not influence Kerrigan, more on this soon). That is why Zeratul wants Kerrigan alive.
Lastly, as to why the Dark Voice can not influence Kerrigan, and why it could influence the Overmind despite being imprisoned by the Xel'Naga. The Overmind is not a psionic entity, but a void-based entity. This still gives him power to control the swarm, but also explains why he and his cerebrates could only be killed by dark templar energies (dark templar also wield the power of the void). The Dark Voice is a void-based entity as well, which is likely why it was able to affect the Overmind during its imprisonment. Kerrigan (Queen of Blades) is not void-based, and is a powerful psychic, which explains why she can resist the Dark Voice's influence.
One last note (because I can't remember if I already covered it), the Dark Voice is not a Xel'Naga. The Dark Voice (KL-2 Entity) was discovered and fought by the Xel'Naga shortly after they entered the galaxy.
All my information has come from the forums here at www.teamliquid.net , as well as the Starcraft and Starcraft 2 wikia. Only small parts of this post are my own theories, most of it is made up of theories of other members of this website, and some segments are practically copied from the wikia. I will probably check this particular thread quite often to continue this discussion, and to answer questions/disagreements/etc.
-CaptChaos
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Lore is what makes stories interesting. This is going to be sweet. Can't wait for HotS
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its possible that the dark voice is the previous generation of xel naga who was imprisoned by the current generation. Seeing as he has similar powers to the complete xel naga, the ability to corrupt and manipulate other beings. He also seems to know how the cycle works and of all history.
That or hes just an evil xel naga who represents the purity of the zerg side more and would rather destroy and assimilate everything rather than the toss who are more of a sit on ur hands homogenous group.
It will be interresting to see if tassadar, like the overmind is tainted by the dark voice as well. As probably the second most powerful psyionic being in sc, he will definately have a role to play here. Still hoping him and zeratul merge[ewww] into a SUPER archon, that can fly! And become available in melee so i can hunt those damn mutas down.
Also, i understand why zera says save or destroy. The xel naga arent nice guys, its possible that alot more protoss and zerg must be destroyed/merged in order for them to be reborn. the dt value their individuality and wouldnt welcome that idea. Neither would the zerg who are finallyy free of the overmind and kerrigan who is purified. Dont forget these were the same guys that corrupted the overmind into only wanting to kill protoss. Ofc it backfired, when the overmind became aware but still, billions of deaths for being just a bit closer to their goal.
Terrans have a more interesting story though, the ued could return, mengsk or his son could feud, nova could be a clone of kerrigan. But will have to see. Im sure someone important will actually die for real next expansion. tychus dead. Not tassadar dead.
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On August 26 2010 04:47 T0fuuu wrote:
its possible that the dark voice is the previous generation of xel naga who was imprisoned by the current generation. Seeing as he has similar powers to the complete xel naga, the ability to corrupt and manipulate other beings. He also seems to know how the cycle works and of all history.
That or hes just an evil xel naga who represents the purity of the zerg side more and would rather destroy and assimilate everything rather than the toss who are more of a sit on ur hands homogenous group.
It will be interresting to see if tassadar, like the overmind is tainted by the dark voice as well. As probably the second most powerful psyionic being in sc, he will definately have a role to play here. Still hoping him and zeratul merge[ewww] into a SUPER archon, that can fly! And become available in melee so i can hunt those damn mutas down.
Also, i understand why zera says save or destroy. The xel naga arent nice guys, its possible that alot more protoss and zerg must be destroyed/merged in order for them to be reborn. the dt value their individuality and wouldnt welcome that idea. Neither would the zerg who are finallyy free of the overmind and kerrigan who is purified. Dont forget these were the same guys that corrupted the overmind into only wanting to kill protoss. Ofc it backfired, when the overmind became aware but still, billions of deaths for being just a bit closer to their goal.
Terrans have a more interesting story though, the ued could return, mengsk or his son could feud, nova could be a clone of kerrigan. But will have to see. Im sure someone important will actually die for real next expansion. tychus dead. Not tassadar dead.
Dont forget these were the same guys that corrupted the overmind into only wanting to kill protoss.
No...no no no. The Xel'Naga intended to remain hidden to the Overmind and allow the Protoss and Zerg to encounter each other and merge naturally. It was the Dark Voice that influenced the Overmind to kill the Protoss, and it was a sudden behavioral change that the Xel'Naga noted as unusual.
Assuming that the Dark Voice and the KL-2 Entity are the same (and I assume this because they share many similar personality traits, as well as similar ultimate goals), it is not possible that the Dark Voice is a Xel'Naga of any kind. It is known that the KL-2 Entity has been responsible for the downfall of many great civilizations, which greatly contrasts the behavioral traits of the Xel'Naga, who cherish all life (they refused to destroy the KL-2 Entity, imprisoning it instead).
"Xel'Naga" is not the name of a particular race, but more a title to describe a race possessing both purity of form and purity of essence. It cannot be argued that the KL-2 Entity has purity of essence, because that is the ability of a race to think and act as a whole (Zerg+Overmind), and the KL-2 Entity is a single entity - kind of a loop-hole, but still valid. Regardless, if the KL-2 Entity is the last of a previous generation of Xel'Naga, it would not be the Xel'Naga Zeratul refers to, and it would be a Xel'Naga that has no genetic relation to the generation of Xel'Naga Zeratul refers to.
nova could be a clone of kerrigan
This, unfortunately, is also false (though they are pretty damn similar). Nova has had a canonical book written about her that predates her ghost training, and she is not a clone of Kerrigan.
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Russian Federation484 Posts
On August 24 2010 15:28 TheBlueMeaner wrote:
I wouldnt discount the posibility of a fourth race, remember undead in wc3?
I can already see the threads
xel naga imba
why xelnaga is OP
10 changes I would make to fix xelnaga
xelnaga erradicator, the answer to terran mech
Remember Naga in WC3? Yeah, exactly.
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thanks rethq for all the work on the OP and follow up responses, especially sourcing your material. Lore threads are usually full of sourceless, conflicting claims (and flames)... This one I actually learned something.
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Nice analysis, I found it interesting and learned a lot. Didn't really see any obvious holes in it either. I am somewhat curious who exactly the dark voice is... an old, exiled xel naga, just an ancient being, etc.
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Idk if this has anything to do with this situation BUT
Zeratul calls the Dark Voice The Fallen One.
Aldaris (judicator) in SC1 calls the Dark templars the fallen ones.
This is completely baseless but adds to the confusion a bit :D
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the or voice in the void is now not considered the dark voice as stated by blizzard and if you have seen it yet this would be spoilers they got this picture by doing a shading thing in photoshop ill post this ONE and original
+ Show Spoiler +
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Good interesting read, defs looking forward to the expansions
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On August 09 2010 03:45 kmdarkmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2010 23:19 Thegilaboy wrote:
So Duran isn't special, even though he claimed to be "many millennia old" and "having many names over these millennia" (Narud perhaps)? I think he is a bit more than just some Terran as you claim, but other than that it's a nice overview The funny thing is, he can't have more than 5! = 120 names, since all of them would be a permutation of "Duran". Oh, I forgot the first name, Samir, isn't it ? In that case the maximum number of names he can have is 5! x 5! = 14400 (quite a lot though)
You can't say he has 120 names from "Duran". Not all combinations can become names. Eg: what kind of name is Rduan? Nrdau? You need to actually examine the combinations phonetically by manually doing the combinations....
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On August 08 2010 23:07 Rethq wrote:
Dark Voice.
Evil bad guy, imprisoned by Xel'naga. Doesn't like the Xel'naga. Understands that the only way to defeat the Xel'naga is to stop their cycle since the death of one generation means little when races with purity of essence and form have already been 'uplifted'.
The Dark Voice, even though imprisoned manages to influence the Overmind. The change in the Overmind is sudden, unlike that in the Protoss, that means there is an outside source influencing it.
The only issue you have with this is I think you are confusing the
Dark Voice with The Voice in the Darkness Which Blizzard straight up said they are not one in the same.
I know you said ina later post that you are just making the assumption that they are, and this would normally be a very good assumption. But unless Blizzard is straight up lieing to our faces (which is possible) then this assumption is wrong and without the trust of what Blizzard says to be decently true, then what is the point of speculating if literally anything and everything could happen?
But the rest is solid.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img237.imageshack.us/i/xelnaga.jpg/)
![[image loading]](http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/File:DarkVoice_SC2_Head1.JPEG)
![[image loading]](http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/File:DarkVoice_SC2_Head3.jpg)
