EPT2024 - 2025 Football Thread - Page 64
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28621 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain17952 Posts
On June 05 2025 07:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: Yeah I think nation's league is mostly for the not-top-tier teams. I like it a lot - while the stakes are lower than WC/EC qualification, it's not meaningless (another potential route, as you say), and the games are on average pretty evenly matched (unlike WC/EC qualification groups, where second tier teams will tend to experience blowouts both ways). For the top teams the potential carrot at the end isn't worth as much as they're usually qualifying anyway, and for them, they can compare the experience with deep runs in WC/EC (which are obviously way more impactful), so it makes sense that they don't really care that much. We'll, England being stuck in pool B also means they aren't a top tier team. So their excuse is that they were in pool B because they don't take it seriously... it's a coping mechanism. Next season they'll be in pool A, finally having overtaken football giants like Bosnia and Israel, so then we'll see if they suddenly "take it seriously" and if they reach the knockouts Pande is here to yell that it's coming home!  | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24775 Posts
On June 05 2025 07:37 Liquid`Drone wrote: Yeah I think nation's league is mostly for the not-top-tier teams. I like it a lot - while the stakes are lower than WC/EC qualification, it's not meaningless (another potential route, as you say), and the games are on average pretty evenly matched (unlike WC/EC qualification groups, where second tier teams will tend to experience blowouts both ways). For the top teams the potential carrot at the end isn't worth as much as they're usually qualifying anyway, and for them, they can compare the experience with deep runs in WC/EC (which are obviously way more impactful), so it makes sense that they don't really care that much. Yeah I really like it as both a Northern Ireland fan and as a neutral as well. For us and many other nations it’s a possible route to tournaments. And aside from that even, competitive matches in pools of teams at roughly your level is great. Ireland have been in the doldrums for ages, but they’ve got a few green shoots of recovery there. Especially for the real, real minnows, you’re getting a rare shot at teams you can beat. Even if they lack quite the punch of a meeting in a tournament finals, also a good watch when the real big boys do go toe-to-toe too. Definitely one of the better initiatives of UEFA in recent years, miles better than friendlies anyway! On June 05 2025 07:59 Acrofales wrote: We'll, England being stuck in pool B also means they aren't a top tier team. So their excuse is that they were in pool B because they don't take it seriously... it's a coping mechanism. Next season they'll be in pool A, finally having overtaken football giants like Bosnia and Israel, so then we'll see if they suddenly "take it seriously" and if they reach the knockouts Pande is here to yell that it's coming home! As much as I’d love to bash the English, I cannae here! England did pretty well in one campaign, indeed it may have been the very first, can’t remember. Didn’t win it but I do remember right they beat Spain actually :p The response at the time kinda was a resounding ‘who gives a shit?’ Especially for those who hadn’t/never would warm to Gareth Southgate, can’t give credit for decent results in a tournament you consider a glorified set of friendlies. I think among ‘cultured’ football fans like myself (I kid), it’s seen as important to be in pool A to get some game time against genuine good sides for prep reasons, especially given IIRC England are in a qualifying group without another traditional big side. Pande no doubt has a better idea, being English and whatnot, that’s defo my recollection. It really does pain me to admit these things as a Norn Irishman, even the ‘it’s coming home’ isn’t as obnoxious as it used to be! Quite strange really. From 98 thru the Sven era (RIP) the hype was insane in all the papers and broadcasts the second England showed anything at all. When they actually did come closer than any time since 96 to winning something, it was surprisingly muted | ||
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KobraKay
Portugal4225 Posts
On June 05 2025 07:19 WombaT wrote: Haha @GTR To you ‘continentals’, are the Nation’s League finals a big deal in your various countries and taken seriously, or is it a case that some football is better than no football? The English really don’t. The Scots and Welsh do seem to get up for it, given it’s another potential route to a major tournament Here you have 2 groups: - yes international tournament and we play against the best so we have to win to boost our moral/reputation - meh these are glorified friendlies and we only won the first one because nobody cares and we are the only ones so excited about a bunch of friendlies with a different name In general it gets the same media attention, but less focus from the people. Even yesterday i didnt heard many people talking about germany throuought the day and if it was a wc for sure people would have been talking about it non stop. Lets see if the final changes that | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6860 Posts
On June 05 2025 07:59 Acrofales wrote: We'll, England being stuck in pool B also means they aren't a top tier team. So their excuse is that they were in pool B because they don't take it seriously... it's a coping mechanism. Next season they'll be in pool A, finally having overtaken football giants like Bosnia and Israel, so then we'll see if they suddenly "take it seriously" and if they reach the knockouts Pande is here to yell that it's coming home! Pretty much this. Was the same in Germany. We sucked for a long time and had the recent high with the European Championship. Then did well in Nations League and suddenly it became a thing. Also helps that final 4 games are held in Germany. I guess it will be same in every country. When your team is out, you cope (glorified friendly, don't care) and when your team is in the final four you hope (It's coming home!!!!) | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9551 Posts
Wow... Ange gone. Spurs fans will be regretting this for years. Even if he would have never won anything again, they don't know that. Unless........... Unless they re-hire him tomorrow so he can win a trophy in his second season again! | ||
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sharkie
Austria18373 Posts
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8631 Posts
first trophy in years is nice but if you look at it objectively, the way their league season has gone, ange fully deserved the sack. i think levy actually played it right and learnt from his mourinho mistake, otherwise ange would have been gone way earlier. instead levy just let the europa league play out and luckily for ange tottenham didnt get eliminated earlier and they got the absolute best case scenario matchups for the semis and finals | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9551 Posts
On June 07 2025 01:23 evilfatsh1t wrote: not a surprise at all ange is gone. their league placement is even worse than ours and thats saying something. first trophy in years is nice but if you look at it objectively, the way their league season has gone, ange fully deserved the sack. i think levy actually played it right and learnt from his mourinho mistake, otherwise ange would have been gone way earlier. instead levy just let the europa league play out and luckily for ange tottenham didnt get eliminated earlier and they got the absolute best case scenario matchups for the semis and finals West Ham fans have learned what happens when you're unappreciative of the managers who win you trophies. Moyes is a tremendous manager but they couldn't help but be pedantic about his style of play. They chased him out and now look at them, nearly as bad as United! Ange is a guy learning in the top league in the world and somehow managing to win trophies at the same time. He would have gotten a top half finish at least or probably pushing for CL next season imo. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18373 Posts
On June 07 2025 01:27 Jockmcplop wrote: West Ham fans have learned what happens when you're unappreciative of the managers who win you trophies. Moyes is a tremendous manager but they couldn't help but be pedantic about his style of play. They chased him out and now look at them, nearly as bad as United! Ange is a guy learning in the top league in the world and somehow managing to win trophies at the same time. He would have gotten a top half finish at least or probably pushing for CL next season imo. I agree 100%. Ange will be more successful than Spurs in the coming years | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8631 Posts
ange got sacked for coming 17th with a team that should be competing for european spots the euphoria of a lucky cup run is good for fans but as an owner theres no doubt that a season long league performance is going to weigh a lot more and unfortunately 17th place is just pathetic. like i said, they placed lower than even united and we were absolutely dog shit. moyes firing was less deserved than anges by a mile. if ange didnt get the trophy literally gifted to him by an absolutely pathetic united team, no one in their right mind would say ange deserved to stay on. moyes you could argue that 14th place was simply an unlucky season for a mid table club anyway, should moyes not have won the conference league | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9551 Posts
On June 07 2025 01:58 evilfatsh1t wrote: moyes and ange arent really comparable though. moyes has proved himself to be a very reliable mid table manager his entire career and got sacked for coming 14th and winning a trophy with a mid table team. ange got sacked for coming 17th with a team that should be competing for european spots the euphoria of a lucky cup run is good for fans but as an owner theres no doubt that a season long league performance is going to weigh a lot more and unfortunately 17th place is just pathetic. like i said, they placed lower than even united and we were absolutely dog shit. moyes firing was less deserved than anges by a mile. if ange didnt get the trophy literally gifted to him by an absolutely pathetic united team, no one in their right mind would say ange deserved to stay on. moyes you could argue that 14th place was simply an unlucky season for a mid table club anyway, should moyes not have won the conference league OK I'll grant you they are very different circumstances. I do honestly think that people don't ever appreciate that managers can change and grow and improve just as much as players. Ange is inexperienced when it comes to elite level football, but he still won a major European trophy. That absolutely should count for alot. All other things being 'as we know them to be', I definitely wouldn't have sacked Ange. That doesn't allow for the stuff we don't know about though. Its very likely that Levy had a meeting with him and said 'look you have to learn to defend properly in the Premier League' and Ange responded petulantly the way he does sometimes and Levy just thought 'fuck having another season like that' and sacked him. I wouldn't blame him in those circumstances. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8631 Posts
ange has shown a lot of naivety in the pl tbh, starting last season. he got away with it a bit and he had support from fans everywhere because you cant deny its funny to watch, on top of his typical aussie zero fucks given media handling style. but this season hasnt really shown that theres something for him to build upon. at least thats the way i see it. this is just the way his teams play. and if he was to change it up so that his teams are much more defensively solid, i think his identity wouldnt really be there anymore. at that point you may as well bring in anyone. kinda the same reason why amorim is so god damn stubborn about his system. thats the only way he plays and if you force him to change, well then youre not getting amorim anymore apparently | ||
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sharkie
Austria18373 Posts
Spurs isn't ManUtd. Trophies don't come to them even if they suck. Postecoglou is a Spurs Legend, you dont sack legends after one bad season | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9551 Posts
On June 07 2025 03:21 sharkie wrote: All I say is first trophy in two decades. Spurs isn't ManUtd. Trophies don't come to them even if they suck. Postecoglou is a Spurs Legend, you dont sack legends after one bad season I think in time Spurs fans will probably come to see things this way too. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24775 Posts
There’s trophies and there’s trophies. There’s clubs, and there’s clubs. Using the SC2 system, you can have an underwhelming league season, if you win a Premier, i.e. the CL, and that’s a pretty good season. You can have a bad league season and win just a Major (like a Europa League, or League Cup), if you’re a non-elite club, and that’s still a banging season. Etc etc Spurs are too big a club, their league form so poor that I don’t think the Europa League really compensates. Same goes for Man United, going into the final much of the commentary was that it was a battle of who gets to salvage their season, who succeeds and whose season was a failure. I think this framing is wrong, I think if you’re an elite club, or with intentions to be, if you’re ever in a ‘one match to save the season’ scenario, the season is already a failure. Spurs had a better season last year, overall, easily. They went backwards massively this year in the league. FA Cup wasn’t great either, League Cup was pretty deep as runs go but Liverpool absolutely battered them. Of course, last season was Ange as well, so he’s shown something that’s maybe worth persevering with If one Doesn’t think like a fan for just a second. We may like certain personalities, think ‘aw just give em time and their players’. Totally get that, I’m so-minded myself . However, If you consider a head coach as being the person most responsible for getting the best out of hundreds of millions of pounds worth of assets, and influential in the purchasing process of new ones, well, bit different. Postecoglu basically failed in his job spec this year across the board, and absolutely nailed one target. If you’re the Spurs board (ok, basically Daniel Levy really), do you have faith that Ange is the man to oversee and manage your existing and future multi-million pound investments? If you’ve faith in the overall direction and his vision, then you can write off this season as a blip, impacted by injury, and back him for next. If you don’t, is it wise to? United had lost faith with Ten Hag and decided to stick with him because he won a trophy, bought him more players and got rid of him after a bad start. Wasted a summer transfer window and pre-season that his successor really could have used, and now have fuck all money. Which is really the worst of all worlds scenario, if that happened, for all involved, including Ange. As it stands he had a pretty good first season, with a really strong start, with a team that had just sold its star player. And a poor second season, albeit injury-ravaged, and he still managed to get a trophy. His stock’s probably still pretty high. It could rise higher if he had stayed with Spurs and turned it around, and I woulda liked to have seen it myself (my brother is also a big Spurs and Ange fan), but a bad start and a sacking sees his stock drop off. As it is he always wins a trophy in his second season mate! That’s still intact | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28621 Posts
(3-0 vs Italy) If this holds we're in an absolutely fantastic spot for WC qualification - after 3 out of 8 matches played. Great goal difference, 9 out of 9 points. Antonio Nusa looking world class - it's not just Ødegaard and Haaland - Nusa, Sørloth, Ryerson and Berge are also top players. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24775 Posts
On June 07 2025 04:07 Jockmcplop wrote: I think in time Spurs fans will probably come to see things this way too. You can be a legend and also deserving of the sack at the same time to be fair. The end of Ranieri’s Leicester tenure springs to mind My brother is pretty pissy about it, although he concedes a sacking based on performance was probably fair, he thought he could have turned it around. I imagine folks will forgive the board if they nail the succession. Iraola would seem the obvious choice for me in terms of a similar (perhaps less suicidal) style that would fit what Ange has been building, and he might be gettable. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24775 Posts
On June 07 2025 02:48 evilfatsh1t wrote: i dont disagree that managers should be given time in the general sense. but the managers also have to show something that the owner feels will eventually reward his faith. ange has shown a lot of naivety in the pl tbh, starting last season. he got away with it a bit and he had support from fans everywhere because you cant deny its funny to watch, on top of his typical aussie zero fucks given media handling style. but this season hasnt really shown that theres something for him to build upon. at least thats the way i see it. this is just the way his teams play. and if he was to change it up so that his teams are much more defensively solid, i think his identity wouldnt really be there anymore. at that point you may as well bring in anyone. kinda the same reason why amorim is so god damn stubborn about his system. thats the only way he plays and if you force him to change, well then youre not getting amorim anymore apparently Yeah agreed. wonder if it’s one of those being too cold, but your duvet is too short dilemmas with Ange. Can he tighten it up, while retaining that attacking verve, or do you have to pick one? Early on at Spurs, and elsewhere in his career he’s made it work for a bit, so for me it’s still a jury is out question in terms of elite leagues. Maybe it’s just a bridge too far for the Premier League, but he’ll find success in another of the big 5, I really don’t know as I say. Especially since it moved to not just be the most desirable destination for top players, but top coaches as well. Whether it’s just as simple as other coaches kinda countered him after a strong start, and he was yet to make his own counter move. I get the impression Angeball is a super effective way to play if you’re better than most teams in your league, but maybe hard to make work if you don’t. I woulda liked to have seen more Angeball at Spurs, felt a good fit, and woulda had a better idea of if he could make it work. Interested to see where he ends up next. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51466 Posts
On June 07 2025 04:54 Liquid`Drone wrote: That's the best first half I've ever seen from Norway (3-0 vs Italy) If this holds we're in an absolutely fantastic spot for WC qualification - after 3 out of 8 matches played. Great goal difference, 9 out of 9 points. Antonio Nusa looking world class - it's not just Ødegaard and Haaland - Nusa, Sørloth, Ryerson and Berge are also top players. Surely, you are making the world cup now, or at worse playoffs but Italy looked a mess, if you win out vs Moldova, Israel and Estonia you just need to avoid defeat in Italy and its done! Sorloth plays really well as well, watched all the second half and 10 minutes of first half, was good. Goals were great. | ||
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