EPT2019 - 2020 Football Thread - Page 85
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sharkie
Austria18443 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On November 06 2019 22:03 Liquid`Drone wrote: hm theguardian and other papers are reporting that Wenger is a frontrunner for the Bayern position. That would be nice! Always been a Wenger fan. One of the main reasons is that not only is Wenger available, he wouldn't take issue with only taking the team until the end of the season. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On November 06 2019 21:27 Liquid`Drone wrote: Barcelona was lucky in their first game vs Prague too.. It had been looking like they were turning stuff around in La Liga, but now they've been pretty poor 3 of the previous 4 games. They are incredibly boring to watch even when they are winning. There is no verve or ooomph in their play | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
I fear them firing Valverde to get another push over or a coach like Koeman that doesn't exactly play his teams like Barça has in successful eras. Maybe it'd be best to completely fail this year to get a good coach with a clear playstyle that's free of contracts at the end of the season (ten Hag, Gallardo?), and boot the players that think they're bigger than the club. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18443 Posts
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On November 07 2019 01:19 WillyWanker wrote: Extremely successful and aging players that don't want to make the efforts required to stay at the top, with a coach that has no specific football philosophy nor guts to use authority on those players, and a direction that doesn't want to take risks before the next elections in a couple years; that's current Barça. I feel bad for new-ish recruits that arrived into this like de Jong, Griezmann, or even Dembele (who's not being the most professional, but isn't that also the coach's job to finish educating young players?). I fear them firing Valverde to get another push over or a coach like Koeman that doesn't exactly play his teams like Barça has in successful eras. Maybe it'd be best to completely fail this year to get a good coach with a clear playstyle that's free of contracts at the end of the season (ten Hag, Gallardo?), and boot the players that think they're bigger than the club. I disagree with the first part to some degree, many players indeed are not at a level they once were but the bigger problem is that the talent level of the new recruits isnt being leveraged to the properly. Give Klopp or Pep this roster than they will make them play at a high level and make them fun to watch. Of the recent rosters that they have put out for the last 2 games. The only Barca vets in the Starting 11's have been Suarez, Messi, Pique, Sergi Roberto and Ter Stergen. and barring maybe Pique the other players have been the most consistent or among the better perfromers + Show Spoiler + (although not as consistent as they should be except Ter Stergen whos been very good) of the lot. Also smaller teams keep getting better and better, so you cant really coast or grind out wins from Individuals anymore,again atleast not consistently. The intensity level that teams bring to a game is a product of how the culture is fostered and developed in the preparation. Thats just not there. Obviously players take a fair share of the blame. But the solution doesnt lie with them. Its pretty clear its a culture/playstyle/coaching/management issue. They are also not strong enough at the centreback pairing, Pique is past it and Lenglet is just ok. They struggle in one on ones and iso's and again the covering defense and midfield is doing one thing expecting something and the defenders are doing something else. They havent let in thatttt many goals to be fair, but thats been mostly because Ter Stegen is a god. If you watch some of their games, its baffling how they didnt let in more goals than they have. Do it long enough and it will come back to haunt, just like the CL last year. The other main problem with respect to the comment about not being leveraged properly is in the midfield and the lack of control they have in that department. Thats where the game starts and ends for the way Barcelona used to play. Even with Luis Enrique the intensity of the passing and movement the pressing existed even if stylistically they had altered. There is no cohesion and that comes from good coaching and a trust level between your players bourne of the way you train with each other. This team plays not to lose. Its not fun to watch. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18443 Posts
On November 07 2019 04:10 Rebs wrote: Who said anything about players believing they were bigger than the club ? Willy did On November 07 2019 01:19 WillyWanker wrote: Extremely successful and aging players that don't want to make the efforts required to stay at the top, with a coach that has no specific football philosophy nor guts to use authority on those players, and a direction that doesn't want to take risks before the next elections in a couple years; that's current Barça. I feel bad for new-ish recruits that arrived into this like de Jong, Griezmann, or even Dembele (who's not being the most professional, but isn't that also the coach's job to finish educating young players?). I fear them firing Valverde to get another push over or a coach like Koeman that doesn't exactly play his teams like Barça has in successful eras. Maybe it'd be best to completely fail this year to get a good coach with a clear playstyle that's free of contracts at the end of the season (ten Hag, Gallardo?), and boot the players that think they're bigger than the club. | ||
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
e: oops i linked Ramsey goal this was what i actually wanted to post: https://streamja.com/yObZ | ||
Liquid`Drone
Norway28683 Posts
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GTR
51476 Posts
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sneirac
Germany3464 Posts
e: lol Spurs https://streamja.com/wGEz | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
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sharkie
Austria18443 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28683 Posts
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
Yeah it's pretty clear that some players have too much power and Valverde doesn't decide much, Piqué being the best example but I'm sure Messi, Suarez, Busquets, Alba have influence on club decisions. How can Piqué come and say they tried to tell the direction to rearrange their pay's scheduling to allow for the Neymar comeback? Or Messi and others campaigning for his return while the direction's clear initial public position was that they weren't considering it (which could obviously be just communication bs, but I don't think so for this case). Neither Valverde nor Bartomeu seem to have the balls to put players in their place and that's been the biggest issue in my opinion. They lack intensity more than they lack tactical skills (from the coach) or talent (from the new players). This team could easily be top contender for the CL but they play like senators. De Jong's intensity this year vs last season says it all. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
Oh look at that, he did. On November 07 2019 09:58 WillyWanker wrote: Yeah it's pretty clear that some players have too much power and Valverde doesn't decide much, Piqué being the best example but I'm sure Messi, Suarez, Busquets, Alba have influence on club decisions. How can Piqué come and say they tried to tell the direction to rearrange their pay's scheduling to allow for the Neymar comeback? Or Messi and others campaigning for his return while the direction's clear initial public position was that they weren't considering it (which could obviously be just communication bs, but I don't think so for this case). Neither Valverde nor Bartomeu seem to have the balls to put players in their place and that's been the biggest issue in my opinion. They lack intensity more than they lack tactical skills (from the coach) or talent (from the new players). This team could easily be top contender for the CL but they play like senators. De Jong's intensity this year vs last season says it all. I disagree that the player power is to strong. Its more like the management is weak. Big personalities are the same wherever you go. Managing big players is a skill. Its a skill only really good managers have. Thats why Big Sam would still be big Sam whether you gave him a 1billion dollar roster. Thats also why no one ever gave him one. Creating a system for training and a club environment everyone including your fans, not just players can buy into is literally your entire job description. And Valverde has never had that, this team has been playing this way you see the last few weeks since the very beginning. Its just that the hard carry bailing them out hasnt been as consistent and opposing teams have gotten better and dont fear them anymore and with good reason. | ||
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LennX
4554 Posts
That is some "wonderful" defending and shot taking  | ||
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WillyWanker
France1915 Posts
On November 07 2019 11:21 Rebs wrote: Oh look at that, he did. I disagree that the player power is to strong. Its more like the management is weak. Big personalities are the same wherever you go. Managing big players is a skill. Its a skill only really good managers have. Thats why Big Sam would still be big Sam whether you gave him a 1billion dollar roster. Thats also why no one ever gave him one. Creating a system for training and a club environment everyone including your fans, not just players can buy into is literally your entire job description. And Valverde has never had that, this team has been playing this way you see the last few weeks since the very beginning. Its just that the hard carry bailing them out hasnt been as consistent and opposing teams have gotten better and dont fear them anymore and with good reason. Uh, isn't that the same thing in the end? Players have more power than the direction right now, that's the result of it, however you want to word it. Valverde's first year was decent, but it's getting worse and worse. Last season was Messi and Ter Stegen carrying the whole team to pretty close from an undeserved treble. Opposing teams might be getting better but that doesn't matter anyway. Barça is the team that pays the highest salaries and their squad should destroy teams like Slavia or Levante as long as they put just a little bit of heart, even without tactical work. The biggest fault is always on the management as they're the ones that can take decisions. However, players are very high on my guilt list. Messi doesn't pass the ball to Griezmann because his buddy Suarez might be benched if the Frenchie starts scoring. That sounds so dumb but I'm pretty sure it's not far from the truth. Or pushing for Neymar in the medias when you know players like Dembélé or Griezmann would take it bad (because that'd mean they'd go on the bench). Piqué is the worst of all, he thinks he's already president. These guys are very toxic for the club, and I think just replacing the coach will not fix the issue. If that coach doesn't get full support from the direction to remove some of those and to dictate how the team should behave, it doesn't matter if it's Pep or Valverde. Just remember that Pep in his last year wanted to let Piqué, Alves, and Fabregas go because they were not investing themselves enough. That's 7 years ago, imagine how much more entitled those guys are/would be now. The current squad CAN win the CL, they have so much talent; but with the current setup it'd be a miracle. Maybe I'm too extreme, but to me a situation like this can only be reversed by having the supporters go through big disappointments. I thought the Liverpool + Valencia losses last season would be enough but it wasn't, so maybe they need to go through one terrible season with 0 trophy and with Madrid winning the league or something. Then players won't be able to hide anymore and you'd finally see some big changes.. That said, I wouldn't mind if they fired Valverde right now to see if I can be a bit more optimistic haha | ||
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InFiNitY[pG]
Germany3474 Posts
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