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2014 - 2015 Football Thread - Page 354

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zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
November 10 2014 11:40 GMT
#7061
Honestly Utd attack isn't that good. No strikers in form, Falcao injured. Januzaj shell of the player he was last year, no wing play. Without Di Maria, there wouldn't be any goals. A positive is that Luke Shaw can actually defend, looks to be worth the hype. Blind is a good player but he can only do very limited things, he's not a great tackler or marker but can turn with the ball and distribute from the back which is more than what the other midfielders can do. I know he was playing out of position vs. Palace but compared to someone like Carrick, it was obvious Carrick is still the far better option. Really glad he's back now, so underappreciated.
UdderChaos
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United Kingdom707 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-10 12:48:19
November 10 2014 12:31 GMT
#7062
Premier League: Manchester United comes out on top in the battle for the loudest fans, according to the 'Sound Meter'


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/premier-league-manchester-united-comes-out-on-top-in-the-battle-for-the-loudest-fans-according-to-the-sound-meter-9850404.html

Not the most scientific, but at least they are measuring DB



Honestly Utd attack isn't that good. No strikers in form, Falcao injured. Januzaj shell of the player he was last year, no wing play. Without Di Maria, there wouldn't be any goals. A positive is that Luke Shaw can actually defend, looks to be worth the hype. Blind is a good player but he can only do very limited things, he's not a great tackler or marker but can turn with the ball and distribute from the back which is more than what the other midfielders can do. I know he was playing out of position vs. Palace but compared to someone like Carrick, it was obvious Carrick is still the far better option. Really glad he's back now, so underappreciated.


I agree about attack, it could click but it's not at the moment. LVG needs to stop putting Di Maria out wide, and we need a WC CB(or two) 6 months ago. Like you say Falcao injured. Adnan is dipping in form, expected of a kid of his age but not great for us. RVP is just terrible at the moment LVG should give him a kick up the arse, hes been bad for over a year now by his standards. Rooney will probably save our season somewhat by getting a ton of assists and goals under the radar, but fans will moan hes not good enough ect as usual.

I hope we keep mata, hes a great player but more importantly hes only 26, even if he doesn't fit in the team now, his prime by usual progression is 2/3 years away yet, by which time he will be a beast injuries permitting. I think we will really regret letting him go, even if there isn't a proper place at the moment in the team for him.

Evans and Smalling need to go, there are just not good enough, and they get injured too often. Unless they are happy on the bench as backup of course. Rojo doesn't look like a good buy at the moment but the juries still out. Jones i think has a future, hes good and still young enough that maybe the injuries will become less frequent and hell improve, but needs to learn from someone else.

Carrick to me is overrated not underrated. He had one good season where i'd argue RVP made him look better than he was, hes 33, not getting any younger, and has not been Manchester united quality in 6 out of his 7 years here.

Blind seems ok, not a world beater but a nice stop-gap for now. Could get better too.
Nunquam iens addo vos sursum
Salteador Neo
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Andorra5591 Posts
November 10 2014 12:52 GMT
#7063
ManU needs world class CB 6 months ago? Barça has needed one or two for the past 3-4 years lol.
Revolutionist fan
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-10 13:05:45
November 10 2014 13:05 GMT
#7064
But we don't have Mascherano or Busquets in front so the problem is worse. I think Rojo will adapt eventually, it's just hilarious and sad that his signature move seems to be passing the ball to someone under pressure and causing that player to lose the ball in a dangerous position which leads to a goal. Has happened in at least three games now. Fellaini's problem is his touch is awful for some reason so attacking moves just break down if he's not heading the ball to someone. Herrera/Fletcher haven't played for a while, hope to see Herrera soon.
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
November 10 2014 13:31 GMT
#7065
On November 10 2014 15:46 Pantagruel wrote:
The vast majority of that tottenham squad has been successful elsewhere. You can bay about how terrible they are but I think it's not the correct assessment. I think to some degree the coaching has been poor, but largely it's the management who has hampered the football of that team time and time again. I guess we agree in a way then, because it all boils down to Levy.

I don't think the squad is top 4 material, but it's better then what has been shown, and Pochettino has not covered himself in glory here. You think the players themselves are responsible. It could be. Regardless, there is only 1 constant, the top. Players have come and gone, managers have come and gone, but Levy remains. What more needs to be said?

I don't think the players are responsible. In fact, to quote myself:

The problem with the club is the ownership of Lewis + Teflon Dan Levy, whose expectation of top 4 on a shoestring budget is outlandish and comical.


Levy is a businessman who should leave the management of the squad to people who know what they're doing, but he never does. Baldini is his puppet and was only hired because he has a huge network of contacts around the continent.
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
November 10 2014 13:32 GMT
#7066
On November 10 2014 14:00 OopsOopsBaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2014 08:09 Mensol wrote:
Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United or Spurs?

i dont know who is the worst.

dortmund.


We look quite a bit better than those teams in Europe.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
smr
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4808 Posts
November 10 2014 13:57 GMT
#7067
Any chances that Kane becomes a regular starter in PL games? Switched my fpl team away from Adebayor after his one good game so I'd like to see that young englishmen more often. Just don't put him into the goal again : )
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-10 14:06:41
November 10 2014 14:01 GMT
#7068
On November 10 2014 20:31 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2014 15:46 Pantagruel wrote:
The vast majority of that tottenham squad has been successful elsewhere. You can bay about how terrible they are but I think it's not the correct assessment. I think to some degree the coaching has been poor, but largely it's the management who has hampered the football of that team time and time again. I guess we agree in a way then, because it all boils down to Levy.

I don't think the squad is top 4 material, but it's better then what has been shown, and Pochettino has not covered himself in glory here. You think the players themselves are responsible. It could be. Regardless, there is only 1 constant, the top. Players have come and gone, managers have come and gone, but Levy remains. What more needs to be said?


The past 5 seasons Tottenham has placed 4th, 5th, 4th, 6th, 5th
how are you unhappy with this? You've been the one team most consistently pushing towards top 4, without the history or the money of the top 4. For me as a Newcastle fan, Tottenham has looked like the number one inspiration for like, how well Newcastle can possibly be expected to do, in the sense that you are consistently getting to play in the EL.

(Newcastle in the same time period was: relegated, 12th, 5th, 16th, 10th.)

Basically I don't even understand what you guys are unhappy with. I understand what Arsenal fans are complaining about, because they went from winning trophies to not winning trophies. But Tottenham's past 5 seasons equates to the best 5 season span they've had since the premier league started..

(The 5 seasons before that (2008/9 - 2004/5), they had: 8th, 11th, 5th, 5th, 9th. The 5 before that, (2003/4 - 1999/2000) 14th, 10th, 9th, 12th, 10th. The 7 before that, (1998/9 - 1992/3) 11th, 14th, 10th, 8th, 7th, 15th, 8th)

Really, for you guys to complain about the leadership on the top, at this moment in time, it just makes no sense to me, especially seeing as how your net spending is very low (which I assume translates to having a reasonably healthy economy?)

You are completely missing the point here. Let me break it down season by season so you can see the failings of ENIC (the company owned by Lewis/Levy which owns Spurs):

-2009/10: Taking advantage of Liverpool's demise, Spurs heroically grab 4th place by beating Arsenal, Chelsea, and City in the last month of the season. Without question, the high point for any Spurs supporter in the last decade. This seemed impossible 2 years prior, when Levy sold Berbatov, Keane, and Defoe in one summer, and replaced them with Pavlyuchenko and Frazier Campbell on loan.

-2010/11: The club's first ever season in the CL, and the squad is reinforced with...Steven Pienaar and Rafa Van der Vaart on deadline day. VdV turned out to be one of the best bargain signings in history, but the squad needed firepower up front and this was not addressed. Fantastic season in the CL ending in the quarterfinals, but Spurs lost 1-0 at the Etihad to surrender 4th place to Man City, whose spending was out of control at this point. Lack of striking options ended up costing several points down the stretch.

-2011/12: Both the best and worst season in recent Spurs history. Hoping to make another top 4 push, the fans expected ENIC to back Harry Redknapp with quality signings...and proceeded to watch the club make a £27m profit in the summer, gutting the squad of its depth. Still, things went extremely well in the league (helped by Redknapp throwing away the Europa League by playing the U21 squad) and, in January, Spurs were clear third and arguably in the title race. The one flaw of the team was still up front, and fans were begging for quality reinforcements (Aguero and Dzeko were both available in this window). Levy delivered them Louis Saha on a free. 13 point lead to Arsenal surrendered over the last three months, mainly because Redknapp had to play the same XI in every match and the players wore out. Fourth place, one point behind Arsenal, and CL missed because Chelsea won the CL. Redknapp sacked by Levy mainly because of his big mouth.

-2012/13: AVB is hired, and Levy greets him by selling his best player to Real Madrid. After pretending to be interested in signing AVB's key player at Porto, Moutinho, Levy instead signs Mousa Dembele on deadline day. Another summer ending in transfer window profit. Bale finally realizes his potential as a world-class player, and Spurs finish with a record 72 pts despite being unable to score a non-Bale goal for 2 months. Unfortunately, Arsenal finished with 73.

-2013/14: Bale sold, despite Levy and the board repeatedly telling AVB that he wouldn't be sold at any price. A potpourri of replacements were brought in, and almost none of them seem to be players the manager actually wanted. Soldado aside, they were all young players whom Levy felt would rise in value over the next few years. After all the other sales, this transfer window ended in yet another profit. AVB sacked in December after failing to make a unit out of the players who never suited his system. Tim Sherwood replaced him on an interim basis and promptly made a fool out of himself with his behavior. Some samples include the gilet throw, shouting match with Jorge Jesus, publicly calling out individual players repeatedly while absolving himself of blame, and watching matches from the stands instead of the touchline ("Where is our manager?!" shouted the Spurs away fans at Anfield), then complaining about not being able to affect matches from the stands. Spurs immediately exit from both domestic cups, and should have lost to Dnipro in the Europa League if not for astonishingly poor refereeing. No matter, as Benfica slaughtered us in the next round.

-2014/15: Pochettino hired. His two main transfer targets were Morgan Schneiderlin of Southampton and Mateo Musacchio of Villarreal. After yet another summer of Levy "negotiating" those transfers, he ended up giving Poch a £4m midfielder from Montpellier whom I had never heard of, and a £8m CB from Sevilla who moves like continental drift and has already been sent off twice in 8 or 9 matches. Transfer window profit yet again.

I hope this makes things a little more clear. Tottenham had a real chance to cement themselves as top 4 material with a little more investment (CL was a near-guarantee with investment in January 2012), but ENIC repeatedly failed to do so. They charge fans the second-highest ticket prices in the league, but offer them Championship-level investment.

As for the leadership issue, the squad has had a spine of veteran leaders over the last few years. Gallas, Parker, King, Dawson, Van der Vaart. They are all gone now and have been replaced by yet more young players with potential to improve and be sold for profit. Put it this way: Adebayor is vice captain of this squad.
Greg_J
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
China4409 Posts
November 10 2014 14:08 GMT
#7069
I particularly like the pictures of Jurgen Klopp shaking Kramer's hand after the Dortmund game they just showed on the Al Jazeera sports round up. He has a sense of humour. I really hope Dortmund can put a run of wins together now.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 10 2014 14:13 GMT
#7070
An investment that still could of fucked up though city. You were "always" going to lose Bale unless you started winning titles, getting justs champions league football would not be enough for him. Without him you would not of got top 4 or even did well in that season of the champions league.
The year you made it was at the expense of Man City who were just going to throw money at their team until they overtook you. Then you had Liverpool on top of them who were "rebuilding". Finishing 6th is an achievement now in this league with the likes of Chelsea Man City Arsenal Yanited Liverpool trying to fit into the top 4 with their huge budgets. Even Liverpool have a decent budget, it is just Rodgers has bought more shite than Pochettino has lol.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18769 Posts
November 10 2014 14:15 GMT
#7071
Yeah, selling Bale for that price was a genius move. No way Bale would have stayed at Spurs lol.

Gerrard is probably the only world class player who always stayed at his club no matter what.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 10 2014 14:17 GMT
#7072
Which twice had chance to go to Chelsea and then to Real Madrid. He was about to physically sign for Chelsea too but went FULL U-Turn once he received death threats from Liverpool fans xD
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
smr
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany4808 Posts
November 10 2014 14:19 GMT
#7073
On November 10 2014 23:15 sharkie wrote:
Gerrard is probably the only world class player who always stayed at his club no matter what.

What about my man Totti? He's worldclass in my highly objective book of childhood heroes.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 10 2014 14:21 GMT
#7074
Guess Totti too fits into that mould. But he has won Serie A in his career and finished 2nd on multiple occasions. Still says his team was more competitive than Tottenham have been in the decades Totti has been at his best
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Greg_J
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
China4409 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-10 14:31:22
November 10 2014 14:26 GMT
#7075
On November 10 2014 23:01 city42 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2014 20:31 Liquid`Drone wrote:
On November 10 2014 15:46 Pantagruel wrote:
The vast majority of that tottenham squad has been successful elsewhere. You can bay about how terrible they are but I think it's not the correct assessment. I think to some degree the coaching has been poor, but largely it's the management who has hampered the football of that team time and time again. I guess we agree in a way then, because it all boils down to Levy.

I don't think the squad is top 4 material, but it's better then what has been shown, and Pochettino has not covered himself in glory here. You think the players themselves are responsible. It could be. Regardless, there is only 1 constant, the top. Players have come and gone, managers have come and gone, but Levy remains. What more needs to be said?


The past 5 seasons Tottenham has placed 4th, 5th, 4th, 6th, 5th
how are you unhappy with this? You've been the one team most consistently pushing towards top 4, without the history or the money of the top 4. For me as a Newcastle fan, Tottenham has looked like the number one inspiration for like, how well Newcastle can possibly be expected to do, in the sense that you are consistently getting to play in the EL.

(Newcastle in the same time period was: relegated, 12th, 5th, 16th, 10th.)

Basically I don't even understand what you guys are unhappy with. I understand what Arsenal fans are complaining about, because they went from winning trophies to not winning trophies. But Tottenham's past 5 seasons equates to the best 5 season span they've had since the premier league started..

(The 5 seasons before that (2008/9 - 2004/5), they had: 8th, 11th, 5th, 5th, 9th. The 5 before that, (2003/4 - 1999/2000) 14th, 10th, 9th, 12th, 10th. The 7 before that, (1998/9 - 1992/3) 11th, 14th, 10th, 8th, 7th, 15th, 8th)

Really, for you guys to complain about the leadership on the top, at this moment in time, it just makes no sense to me, especially seeing as how your net spending is very low (which I assume translates to having a reasonably healthy economy?)


-2013/14: Bale sold, despite Levy and the board repeatedly telling AVB that he wouldn't be sold at any price. A potpourri of replacements were brought in, and almost none of them seem to be players the manager actually wanted. Soldado aside, they were all young players whom Levy felt would rise in value over the next few years. After all the other sales, this transfer window ended in yet another profit. AVB sacked in December after failing to make a unit out of the players who never suited his system. Tim Sherwood replaced him on an interim basis and promptly made a fool out of himself with his behavior. Some samples include the gilet throw, shouting match with Jorge Jesus, publicly calling out individual players repeatedly while absolving himself of blame, and watching matches from the stands instead of the touchline ("Where is our manager?!" shouted the Spurs away fans at Anfield), then complaining about not being able to affect matches from the stands. Spurs immediately exit from both domestic cups, and should have lost to Dnipro in the Europa League if not for astonishingly poor refereeing. No matter, as Benfica slaughtered us in the next round.

I think you are a little harsh on Tim Sherwood. It seemed unlikely that he would remain the manager in the long term and I don't think he did too bad in the time he was there. You have to remember he wasn’t a professional manager before he took the job and he was lways likely to be a bit of wild card. Sitting in the stands for a higher view point is sometimes the best way of seeing what’s going on and something a lot of managers do regardless of what the fans want to see. It also seems to me that a lack of desire is half the problem at Spurs so insulting a previous manager for having a go at the players when they clearly are not trying enough seems to me a bit ridiculous. If anything half the Spurs current squad needs a kick up the backside. But he was only a short term replacement anyway and in my eyes he did a pretty good job for you.

On November 10 2014 23:15 sharkie wrote:
Yeah, selling Bale for that price was a genius move. No way Bale would have stayed at Spurs lol.

Gerrard is probably the only world class player who always stayed at his club no matter what.

Spurs didn't sell Bale because they wanted to. They was no way on earth they could keep him.

edit: Sorry I miss read your comment. I thought you where saying Spurs should have kept him. But you’re saying the same thing as me.
city42
Profile Joined October 2007
1656 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-10 14:37:35
November 10 2014 14:36 GMT
#7076
On November 10 2014 23:13 Pandemona wrote:
An investment that still could of fucked up though city. You were "always" going to lose Bale unless you started winning titles, getting justs champions league football would not be enough for him. Without him you would not of got top 4 or even did well in that season of the champions league.
The year you made it was at the expense of Man City who were just going to throw money at their team until they overtook you. Then you had Liverpool on top of them who were "rebuilding". Finishing 6th is an achievement now in this league with the likes of Chelsea Man City Arsenal Yanited Liverpool trying to fit into the top 4 with their huge budgets. Even Liverpool have a decent budget, it is just Rodgers has bought more shite than Pochettino has lol.

I genuinely think Arsenal were there for the taking. Wenger was still in do-not-spend mode, and their morale was at an all-time low. Had Spurs overtaken them for CL places in 2011/12 and 12/13, Wenger probably would have quit. One point made all the difference.

On November 10 2014 23:26 Greg_J wrote:
I think you are a little harsh on Tim Sherwood. It seemed unlikely that he would remain the manager in the long term and I don't think he did to bad in the time he was there. You have to remember he wasn’t a professional manager before he took the job and he was always likely to be a bit of wild card. Sitting in the stands for a higher view point is sometimes the best way of seeing what’s going on and something a lot of managers do regardless of what they fans want to see. It also seems to me that a lack of desire is half the problem at Spurs so insulting a previous manager for having a go at the player when they clearly not trying enough seems to me a bit ridiculous. If anything half the Spurs current squad needs a kick up the backside. But he was only a short term replacement anyway and in my eyes he did a pretty good job for you.

I said on the last page (or maybe 2 pages ago) that Sherwood was right with a lot of his comments. As a fan I feel no connection to 90% of the players in the squad, and it wouldn't bother me in the least if they were all sold in January. Very few of them show any desire. The players Sherwood wanted Levy to buy were all Premiership-proven and had professional attitudes, exactly what this squad is lacking.

Still, his tactics were questionable at best. The 4-4-2 at the Emirates in the FA Cup was an embarrassment, and he was annihilated in every big match just like AVB. He also lost to West Ham twice which should be a crime against humanity. I don't have a problem with him sitting in the stands, I have a problem sitting in the stands and then complaining about not being able to affect the match from up there. Nothing was ever Sherwood's fault in his mind (similar to his chairman, funny enough). He writes for the Independent now and fits bitter comments about Tottenham into every article.
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 10 2014 14:40 GMT
#7077
Yeah Arsenal i guess where the weakest when you were trying to get in, however i do feel they were better over the course of the season. Mainly due to when Bale was injured you really struggled.
Now whoever finishes 3rd or 4th will be at the expense of Arsenal i think, they are really poor this time out.

Chelsea/City
City/Chelsea
Yanited?
Liverpool/Arsenal
Shock?

Something like that you would think at this moment in time.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18769 Posts
November 10 2014 14:47 GMT
#7078
On November 10 2014 23:19 smr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2014 23:15 sharkie wrote:
Gerrard is probably the only world class player who always stayed at his club no matter what.

What about my man Totti? He's worldclass in my highly objective book of childhood heroes.


Yes of course Totti as well.
He is world class in every book.

Totti and Gerrard - two players I respect a lot.
aseq
Profile Joined January 2003
Netherlands4025 Posts
November 10 2014 16:05 GMT
#7079
On November 10 2014 23:47 sharkie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2014 23:19 smr wrote:
On November 10 2014 23:15 sharkie wrote:
Gerrard is probably the only world class player who always stayed at his club no matter what.

What about my man Totti? He's worldclass in my highly objective book of childhood heroes.


Yes of course Totti as well.
He is world class in every book.

Totti and Gerrard - two players I respect a lot.

Hey, what about Giggs and Scholes, then? And Maldini?
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
November 10 2014 16:16 GMT
#7080
Giggs and Scholes at the top club throughout whole career. Maldini also. We are on about the players that stay at clubs who are not competing at the highest level.
Reason Roma and Totti might not come into the equation of Gerrard with Liverpool. Gerrard had the chance to leave them multiple times after 2005 and choose not too and continued to achieve nothing other than last seasons highlight of a runners up medal.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
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