A German team like Bayern shouldnt play Tiki-Taka. It's Spanish football, So signing Pep was a terrible idea from Bayern's board.
They should've sign a coach who knew gegen pressing and Umschaltspiel(Basicially German football heh). This football style suits perfectly for German teams. Umschaltspiel was the main reason of Jupp's success. He perfected it in the last season but unfortunately he retired before dominating scene for at least two years.
What is Umschaltspiel? If i were to explain it in one sentence, You win the ball and attack instantly/directly.
Dortmund is playing with this style as well. As you know they dominated Real Madrid 2-0 at quarter finals.
im so happy with finals! I wouldnt mind both Chelsea and Atletico Madrid. Awesome story lines for both games.
Madrid derby anddddd Mourinho vs Real Madrid.
That's absurd. Chelsea-Atletico game was even worse then this Real-Bayern tie. I hope Atletico make it to the final because I think they have slightly more desire to attack then Chelsea and having been successful against them in Liga maybe willing to give them a game.
It's like the football world is completely backwards on here. Somehow short passing attacking style play is the villain while defensive counter oriented Catennacio is great football. The problem isn't the short passing attacking style, it's the defensive setups that make these matches a snooze. Three of the four teams in the semi's have been too cowardly to try and win the game and have been content to let their opponents run into a wall of spikes. Bayern ran into whole heartedly and the Chelsea-Atletico was a wash with both teams thinking the same thing. It's been a dire semifinals especially considering the talent on display. Maybe the finals will redeem it but I doubt it.
Real's lineup today was more offensive than Bayern's...
Real can put out any lineup and it would be more offensive then Bayern they have so much talent. It's the style of play that matters. Regardless, it was understandable Real game out with such a defensive strategy because they were already ahead. That doesn't make it praiseworthy though.
I think Real fully deserved to win today and go on to the finals, they were better disciplined and the better team. I just take issue with the idea that tiki-taka is somehow a boring playstyle when in reality the blame lies with uber defensive teams that play 11 men behind the ball.
In regards to Pep being the wrong hire for Bayern, you may very well be right. The last month or so they have looked very underwhelming, especially so versus the top teams. It seems the short passing style does not suit the players and they can't break down a world class defense. Still, it can take time to instill such a big change and I'd give Pep the time he needs to attempt it.
im so happy with finals! I wouldnt mind both Chelsea and Atletico Madrid. Awesome story lines for both games.
Madrid derby anddddd Mourinho vs Real Madrid.
That's absurd. Chelsea-Atletico game was even worse then this Real-Bayern tie. I hope Atletico make it to the final because I think they have slightly more desire to attack then Chelsea and having been successful against them in Liga maybe willing to give them a game.
It's like the football world is completely backwards on here. Somehow short passing attacking style play is the villain while defensive counter oriented Catennacio is great football. The problem isn't the short passing attacking style, it's the defensive setups that make these matches a snooze. Three of the four teams in the semi's have been too cowardly to try and win the game and have been content to let their opponents run into a wall of spikes. Bayern ran into whole heartedly and the Chelsea-Atletico was a wash with both teams thinking the same thing. It's been a dire semifinals especially considering the talent on display. Maybe the finals will redeem it but I doubt it.
Real's lineup today was more offensive than Bayern's...
Real can put out any lineup and it would be more offensive then Bayern they have so much talent. It's the style of play that matters. Regardless, it was understandable Real game out with such a defensive strategy because they were already ahead. That doesn't make it praiseworthy though.
I think Real fully deserved to win today and go on to the finals, they were better disciplined and the better team. I just take issue with the idea that tiki-taka is somehow a boring playstyle when in reality the blame lies with uber defensive teams that play 11 men behind the ball.
In regards to Pep being the wrong hire for Bayern, you may very well be right. The last month or so they have looked very underwhelming, especially so versus the top teams. It seems the short passing style does not suit the players and they can't break down a world class defense. Still, it can take time to instill such a big change and I'd give Pep the time he needs to attempt it.
First of all Real Madrid's gameplan had nothing to do with Catenaccio. Catenaccio requires man-to-man defending and using a sweeper... These two things are gone from football long time ago. What Ancelotti did(and you call "Catenaccio") was to counter Pep's style with a superior strategy. You can't call Real Madrid's strategy defensive when they win 4-0. Yeah, Bayern possessed the ball 70% of the time... So what ? I think that it's about time to realize that 70% ball possession doesn't give you 70% more scoring chances or 70% chance of winning. Quite the opposite. Real had the better chances to score goals in both games, Real was the more dangerous team, Real was the more effective team. With their "attacking" and "beautiful" style Bayern had 1 good scoring chance for 180 minutes of football. Saying that I'm really sorry for Bayern... In one year their truly beautiful and direct football was turned into this joke. The only good thing they can do is to hire Klopp.
im so happy with finals! I wouldnt mind both Chelsea and Atletico Madrid. Awesome story lines for both games.
Madrid derby anddddd Mourinho vs Real Madrid.
That's absurd. Chelsea-Atletico game was even worse then this Real-Bayern tie. I hope Atletico make it to the final because I think they have slightly more desire to attack then Chelsea and having been successful against them in Liga maybe willing to give them a game.
It's like the football world is completely backwards on here. Somehow short passing attacking style play is the villain while defensive counter oriented Catennacio is great football. The problem isn't the short passing attacking style, it's the defensive setups that make these matches a snooze. Three of the four teams in the semi's have been too cowardly to try and win the game and have been content to let their opponents run into a wall of spikes. Bayern ran into whole heartedly and the Chelsea-Atletico was a wash with both teams thinking the same thing. It's been a dire semifinals especially considering the talent on display. Maybe the finals will redeem it but I doubt it.
Real's lineup today was more offensive than Bayern's...
Real can put out any lineup and it would be more offensive then Bayern they have so much talent. It's the style of play that matters. Regardless, it was understandable Real game out with such a defensive strategy because they were already ahead. That doesn't make it praiseworthy though.
I think Real fully deserved to win today and go on to the finals, they were better disciplined and the better team. I just take issue with the idea that tiki-taka is somehow a boring playstyle when in reality the blame lies with uber defensive teams that play 11 men behind the ball.
In regards to Pep being the wrong hire for Bayern, you may very well be right. The last month or so they have looked very underwhelming, especially so versus the top teams. It seems the short passing style does not suit the players and they can't break down a world class defense. Still, it can take time to instill such a big change and I'd give Pep the time he needs to attempt it.
First of all Real Madrid's gameplan had nothing to do with Catenaccio. Catenaccio requires man-to-man defending and using a sweeper... These two things are gone from football long time ago. What Ancelotti did(and you call "Catenaccio") was to counter Pep's style with a superior strategy. You can't call Real Madrid's strategy defensive when they win 4-0. Yeah, Bayern possessed the ball 70% of the time... So what ? I think that it's about time to realize that 70% ball possession doesn't give you 70% more scoring chances or 70% chance of winning. Quite the opposite. Real had the better chances to score goals in both games, Real was the more dangerous team, Real was the more effective team. With their "attacking" and "beautiful" style Bayern had 1 good scoring chance for 180 minutes of football. Saying that I'm really sorry for Bayern... In one year their truly beautiful and direct football was turned into this joke. The only good thing they can do is to hire Klopp.
Oh please, 4-0 with 1 goal from open play. Hardly an attacking style. Though the method may not be the same as Catennacio the mindset is the same. What Ancelotti did (and you call not Catennacio) is defend with 11 men behind the ball, let Bayern dictate play and hit them on the counter when they are vulnerable. Yes, it was superior strategy, which Bayern fell into completely. I don't begrudge Real their spot in the finals and I hope they win it as for the most part I like their play best out of the remaining teams but there's no reason to pretend like they didn't just defend and counter this series.
im so happy with finals! I wouldnt mind both Chelsea and Atletico Madrid. Awesome story lines for both games.
Madrid derby anddddd Mourinho vs Real Madrid.
That's absurd. Chelsea-Atletico game was even worse then this Real-Bayern tie. I hope Atletico make it to the final because I think they have slightly more desire to attack then Chelsea and having been successful against them in Liga maybe willing to give them a game.
It's like the football world is completely backwards on here. Somehow short passing attacking style play is the villain while defensive counter oriented Catennacio is great football. The problem isn't the short passing attacking style, it's the defensive setups that make these matches a snooze. Three of the four teams in the semi's have been too cowardly to try and win the game and have been content to let their opponents run into a wall of spikes. Bayern ran into whole heartedly and the Chelsea-Atletico was a wash with both teams thinking the same thing. It's been a dire semifinals especially considering the talent on display. Maybe the finals will redeem it but I doubt it.
Real's lineup today was more offensive than Bayern's...
Real can put out any lineup and it would be more offensive then Bayern they have so much talent. It's the style of play that matters. Regardless, it was understandable Real game out with such a defensive strategy because they were already ahead. That doesn't make it praiseworthy though.
I think Real fully deserved to win today and go on to the finals, they were better disciplined and the better team. I just take issue with the idea that tiki-taka is somehow a boring playstyle when in reality the blame lies with uber defensive teams that play 11 men behind the ball.
In regards to Pep being the wrong hire for Bayern, you may very well be right. The last month or so they have looked very underwhelming, especially so versus the top teams. It seems the short passing style does not suit the players and they can't break down a world class defense. Still, it can take time to instill such a big change and I'd give Pep the time he needs to attempt it.
First of all Real Madrid's gameplan had nothing to do with Catenaccio. Catenaccio requires man-to-man defending and using a sweeper... These two things are gone from football long time ago. What Ancelotti did(and you call "Catenaccio") was to counter Pep's style with a superior strategy. You can't call Real Madrid's strategy defensive when they win 4-0. Yeah, Bayern possessed the ball 70% of the time... So what ? I think that it's about time to realize that 70% ball possession doesn't give you 70% more scoring chances or 70% chance of winning. Quite the opposite. Real had the better chances to score goals in both games, Real was the more dangerous team, Real was the more effective team. With their "attacking" and "beautiful" style Bayern had 1 good scoring chance for 180 minutes of football. Saying that I'm really sorry for Bayern... In one year their truly beautiful and direct football was turned into this joke. The only good thing they can do is to hire Klopp.
No, Klopp not going to leave Dortmund. especially for Bayern Munih.
They should give a chance to Armin Veh imo. He know German football very well.
On April 30 2014 07:36 RvB wrote: Mensol you dislike Pep more than I dislike Mourinho lol
On April 30 2014 07:22 Mensol wrote: A German team like Bayern shouldnt play Tiki-Taka. It's Spanish football, So signing Pep was a terrible idea from Bayern's board.
They should've sign a coach who knew gegen pressing and Umschaltspiel(Basicially German football heh). This football style suits perfectly for German teams. Umschaltspiel was the main reason of Jupp's success. He perfected it in the last season but unfortunately he retired before dominating scene for at least two years.
What is Umschaltspiel? If i were to explain it in one sentence, You win the ball and attack instantly/directly.
Dortmund is playing with this style as well. As you know they dominated Real Madrid 2-0 at quarter finals.
Its not about Spanish or German style. The problem I just saw is that Bayern doesnt have the great team for playing that kind of football like he had in Barcelona. He doesnt have Xavi or Iniesta to make those passes and Messi to break up anything in the defence. So the problem is just that, not nationalities. I think there is no team right now that can efectively do that kind of soccer in a international level, not even Real Madrid.
Now that the match has been played I think we can look at it more objectively. Real played very professionally and played very well. They deserved to win the match in the fashion they did. There's not much to say about them yet because their season is still in full swing and their final few games will help stamp a verdict on their performance. They weren't exceptional today but they were merciless and disciplined and that's why they won.
As for Bayern, I think Pep will need to re-asses his team to see what the best course forward is. Bayern had a great season until the final month or so. Perhaps the team hit a patch of bad form and confidence or perhaps it's indicative of a more comprehensive problem. It's certainly possible that this Bayern squad is not the right fit for Pep's brand of football, and it's also possible that they just had a terrible month and that they should continue as they are and simply attempt to improve. I'm really interested to see what Pep does after an ultimately disappointing year.
First of all Real Madrid's gameplan had nothing to do with Catenaccio. Catenaccio requires man-to-man defending and using a sweeper... These two things are gone from football long time ago.
Thats why I usually use the term Glorified Cato.. because man to man marking got destroyed by Renus...
and btw anyone can wiki what Cato is, no one really means that anymore when the mention it
But playing an 11 man zone is just as woeful.
Bottom line is the team in that role cannot be the protagonist in a football match, whether they deseve to win or lose a matter entirely different and for me the team that wins won because they deserved it. End of story. Be it the team with the mindset to win or the one that came out not to lose.
And I tend to agree the last few years have shown that you have to be more measured in your willingness to break teams down. If they nick a goal well your fucked but top teams play with so much pace on the counter you just cant expose yourself anymore.
On April 30 2014 07:22 Mensol wrote: A German team like Bayern shouldnt play Tiki-Taka. It's Spanish football, So signing Pep was a terrible idea from Bayern's board.
They should've sign a coach who knew gegen pressing and Umschaltspiel(Basicially German football heh). This football style suits perfectly for German teams. Umschaltspiel was the main reason of Jupp's success. He perfected it in the last season but unfortunately he retired before dominating scene for at least two years.
What is Umschaltspiel? If i were to explain it in one sentence, You win the ball and attack instantly/directly.
Dortmund is playing with this style as well. As you know they dominated Real Madrid 2-0 at quarter finals.
Bayern actually had the most consistent/most used "gegenpressing" in all of football. It means if you lose the ball deep in the last third of the field you dont drop back like you usually do, instead you collapse on the player with the ball with all the people in the area. They destroyed Bundesliga with that most of the year and against a team without a brilliant Luca Modric it usually works very well. "Umschaltspiel" is transition game it means how good and fast you are changing as a team from defending to attack and from attack to defending.
So signing pep was a terrible idea because Bayern is german. Yea no.
Do you think Pep choose Bayern randomly or for the money? I am pretty sure he knows what he does and thought about the roster and if they are capable of playing his style of football before joining. Judging pep on 2 games is just wrong. Think about it, it is his first season with another club, in a different league way out of his comfort zone with a club that won everything possible last year. But instead of falling of a cliff (ask inter) and being "satt(saturated)" they played (and won) like robots for most of the season. Every team has periods of time were they aren't perfect and are in a hole, this season it just was bad timing that this was at the most important time against a very, very good team.
I think if you ask pep and the club if this season was a success (won BL by around 20 points, final in DFB Pokal, CL semis, played dominant football for 90% of the season) they would say yes.
I also like how Pep handled the defeat: "We couldn't control the defensive midfield in the first-half and didn't put in a good performance, because the coach made a mistake." "I told the players during the break that I had made a mistake," "We played badly when we had the ball. That's my responsibility. I made a mistake," He just stands in front of his team with taking the blame. And no weird conspiracy like some other great coaches...
Also this should get the attention of some players: "Of course, we have to consider whether we have the right players to play this style of game,". I imagine that they could do more on the transfer market then i expected.
I find it funny how much yesterday's game rensembled Liverpool vs Arsenal 5-1 trashing on Anfield. Quick two goals from set pieces by a centre-back and the other team completely falls apart.
It's a bad loss, but blaming it on their tactics might be exaggerating things. After all, up to this point, they were rolling over everyone. Curiously, shit started to go wrong when they rampage brought them fastest Bundesliga championship ever, which I think induced some complacency. They had their wake up call vs Dortmund and still lost, so it definitely looks like a problem with mentality - at least to some extent.
But as I said - I'm not sure tactics is the problem. Did Pep choose right players for 2nd leg? I think he didn't give enough chances for Götze to shine, even though it was obvious that Ribery has been struggling recently. But another thing is that he didn't believe that Rafinha can stop CR7, so he used Lahm as a right-back this time (perhaps because they conceded in Madrid after attack from their right flank?). Once again, Lahm was best performer of his team, but I think his good shape would help Bayern much more if he was where he makes biggest impact - in the middle.
Another thing is that Real has about 5-year stability and has played something like 15 or more games against tiki-taka in his domestic competitions. And Guardiola is currently pushing it over the limits with +80% posession, so his players are slowly forgetting what to do when they actually DON'T have the ball. But let's not forget that this approach made them unbeatable between late July and mid December last year, which was 25 wins + 2 draws loseless streak. It's just that their form curve peaked too early... or maybe they just fucked up severly one important game and that's it?
Bayern lost their invincibility aura when they decided to not give a shit on the rest of their Bundesliga (german league) matches and started to lose games again. Serves them right to lose like that, although I was surprised.
Team News Asked if Terry, who injured his ankle in the first leg, will start, Mourinho said: "Of course," while the captain himself added: "I wouldn't put the team at any risk but I am fully fit." Hazard, recovered from a calf problem, is also "ready" according to Mourinho.
Čech, thought to be out for weeks after dislocating his shoulder in Madrid last week, also trained and hinted he felt he was ready to start ahead of Mark Schwarzer but the manager stated: "His condition doesn't give him a chance." It remains to be seen if Eto'o has fully recovered from his knee injury. Lampard and Mikel are suspended.
Team News Defender Javi Manquillo is in the squad but is not expected to feature due to a neck injury. Gabi is suspended.
On April 30 2014 07:22 Mensol wrote: A German team like Bayern shouldnt play Tiki-Taka. It's Spanish football, So signing Pep was a terrible idea from Bayern's board.
They should've sign a coach who knew gegen pressing and Umschaltspiel(Basicially German football heh). This football style suits perfectly for German teams. Umschaltspiel was the main reason of Jupp's success. He perfected it in the last season but unfortunately he retired before dominating scene for at least two years.
What is Umschaltspiel? If i were to explain it in one sentence, You win the ball and attack instantly/directly.
Dortmund is playing with this style as well. As you know they dominated Real Madrid 2-0 at quarter finals.
Its not about Spanish or German style. The problem I just saw is that Bayern doesnt have the great team for playing that kind of football like he had in Barcelona. He doesnt have Xavi or Iniesta to make those passes and Messi to break up anything in the defence. So the problem is just that, not nationalities. I think there is no team right now that can efectively do that kind of soccer in a international level, not even Real Madrid.
And Busquets, dont foget him. It is like the perfect defensive midfield for tiki taka. He can defend alone without help, initiate, pass, dribbling sometimes. He was so important in the golden years of Barcelona.
EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmarqQxIQAAvp2W.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/teams/logos/18x18/50051.png)
Real Madrid vs ![[image loading]](http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/teams/logos/18x18/50037.png)
Bayern Munchen ![[image loading]](http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/teams/logos/18x18/52914.png)
Chelsea vs ![[image loading]](http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/teams/logos/18x18/50124.png)
Atletico Madrid 
