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On February 13 2014 07:01 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 06:58 Mensol wrote:On February 13 2014 06:55 sharkie wrote:On February 13 2014 06:54 Mensol wrote:On February 13 2014 06:50 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 13 2014 06:48 Mensol wrote:
I think its pretty much confirmed that no Manchester United in the next CL/EL season.
It's not easy to close 8 points gap.
Liverpool back to title race :3 would be the first season without qualifying for europe since... i was old enough to watching football. I wonder how Yanited going to attract big names in the next transfer season. money Teams like PSG, Monaco, City and Chelsea can give money as well as Europa League. It would be easy to choose for big names, right? well you saw mata go to united instead of some other club, football players dont have any pride, they go where the money is
So Man United having a bad season means theres no pride in playing for United.
Its not the most valuable club in the world because the Glazers are financial geniuses, its because the Name and the Brand as it is now pretty much exceeds every other club by a bit and has done since they topped RM a few years back.
Its going to take more than a shit season to change that.
I'd say there is plenty of pride in playing for United.
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On February 13 2014 08:51 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 07:01 sharkie wrote:On February 13 2014 06:58 Mensol wrote:On February 13 2014 06:55 sharkie wrote:On February 13 2014 06:54 Mensol wrote:On February 13 2014 06:50 zulu_nation8 wrote:On February 13 2014 06:48 Mensol wrote:
I think its pretty much confirmed that no Manchester United in the next CL/EL season.
It's not easy to close 8 points gap.
Liverpool back to title race :3 would be the first season without qualifying for europe since... i was old enough to watching football. I wonder how Yanited going to attract big names in the next transfer season. money Teams like PSG, Monaco, City and Chelsea can give money as well as Europa League. It would be easy to choose for big names, right? well you saw mata go to united instead of some other club, football players dont have any pride, they go where the money is So Man United having a bad season means theres no pride in playing for United. Its not the most valuable club in the world because the Glazers are financial geniuses, its because the Name and the Brand as it is now pretty much exceeds every other club by a bit and has done since they topped RM a few years back. Its going to take more than a shit season to change that. I'd say there is plenty of pride in playing for United.
No, I am saying players (99.99%) don't care one bit who they play for. They only care about their pay check. So lack of champions league won't make Man Utd any less attractive than with CL as long as the money is right
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Norway28875 Posts
no they don't only care about the pay check. Some do, sure, but it's not like Anzhi was as attractive as any of the top tier english or spanish teams.. Torres and Suarez ending up in Liverpool can both be attributed to Liverpool's status and fanbase, not that Liverpool was the wealthiest or best team. It's just silly to make up a number like 99.99% when I would personally think that a minority of players greatly prioritize money over all other factors combined.
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On February 12 2014 22:05 Mensol wrote:
I bet on both Arsenal and Tottenham. if 1 or 4 goal scored on Tottenham game, i lose, if game finishes with 2-3 goals, i win!
my coupon:
Bayer Leverkusen vs Lautern = B.Leverkusen to win
Everton vs Crystal Pal = Everton to win
Fulham vs Liverpool = Liverpool to win
Arsenal vs ManU = Arsenal to win
Newcastle vs Tottenham = max 2-3 goals
Gronigen vs Twente = Twente to win
Hamburg vs BMunih = BMunih to win
ArsenalvManu and TottenhamvNewcastle are only scary matches for me :3
XDD""""
typical rookie mistake. leverkusen has a habit of losing against underclassed teams ín the cup.
edit: about your discussion over what matters to players: i think besides money, they care a lot about playing in the cl. being on a team that plays cl means they get international exposition, which increases their chances of being picked by an even better team and also of getting onto their respective national team.
so being on a team that plays cl massively increases the chances of earning even more money and reputation in the future. particularly for young, talented players, this might be more valuable than slightly higher immediate earnings.
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On February 13 2014 09:40 Liquid`Drone wrote:
no they don't only care about the pay check. Some do, sure, but it's not like Anzhi was as attractive as any of the top tier english or spanish teams.. Torres and Suarez ending up in Liverpool can both be attributed to Liverpool's status and fanbase, not that Liverpool was the wealthiest or best team. It's just silly to make up a number like 99.99% when I would personally think that a minority of players greatly prioritize money over all other factors combined.
Torres ended up at Chelsea lol
and suarez was a liability when Liverpool signed him or he could be one of the 0.01%
the reason anzhi is so unattractive is that your career is over once playing there, you also have zo consider personal sponsor deals of course
I wish it were only a minority. But every player has a price or why else is barca going to offer messi even crazier wages? Because otherwise messi would leave the club.
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On February 13 2014 15:56 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 09:40 Liquid`Drone wrote:
no they don't only care about the pay check. Some do, sure, but it's not like Anzhi was as attractive as any of the top tier english or spanish teams.. Torres and Suarez ending up in Liverpool can both be attributed to Liverpool's status and fanbase, not that Liverpool was the wealthiest or best team. It's just silly to make up a number like 99.99% when I would personally think that a minority of players greatly prioritize money over all other factors combined. Torres ended up at Chelsea lol and suarez was a liability when Liverpool signed him or he could be one of the 0.01% the reason anzhi is so unattractive is that your career is over once playing there, you also have zo consider personal sponsor deals of course I wish it were only a minority. But every player has a price or why else is barca going to offer messi even crazier wages? Because otherwise messi would leave the club.
I think that Messi is an exception because this comes probably mainly from barcas side to pay him the most and more importantly more than Ronaldo. And why should messi say no.
You have to keep some things in mind with all this payment discuss. First of i think that pro players at the highest level are not more greedy than anybody else. Its the market what gives them this amount of money. Also think about it this guys are the absolute highest level in doing their jobs, if you are as good in your job, say IT tech or banking or whatever, as they are playing football you would make a lot of money too.
Also everyone overcame tremendous odds to make it to a Barca or Bayern or whatever level. Since they were 10 or so their main opponent were their own teammates to make the cut to the pros. So they are raised to be super competitive in anything they are doing.
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Oh, I am definitely not saying it's only footballers who are greedy. It's us humans in general who are greedy. And I don't condemn the players for doing it.
Who wouldn't do the same thing? I can't say 100% that I would not take the money
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Norway28875 Posts
I can say 100% that I would not choose $10 mill per year to play in anzhi over $5 mill per year to play in *select high profile english/spanish team* (depending on preference). And I do think less of players who would.
But I actually don't think that many players would prioritize money in that scenario - certainly less than half.
it's not like we're talking about either making shitloads of money or making barely scraping by money, when you're discussing top teams then players are either gonna make obscene amounts or they're gonna make even more obscene amounts. I think if anything, players want to be the highest paid players in their club because that is a status symbol - not because of the money itself - and then playing for a team like united gives more status than mostly any other team anyway. I think the fucking weather is a bigger problem for united than not paying big enough salaries.
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when you see players of the losing team cry in the CLfinal then you know they dont just play for the money
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On February 14 2014 01:13 3point14 wrote:
when you see players of the losing team cry in the CLfinal then you know they dont just play for the money
They are crying over lost bonuses, what else could it be! ...sorry 
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Based on all my observations that I have done in my life (sportsmen, politicians, musicians whatever whatever), I am pretty sure that the majority of players would go to Anzhi in Drone's scenario.
That is just humans in general who are not only greedy as sharkie said, but they also love the feeling of safety. With safety I mean having sufficient money for the rest of your life for you and your family.
I don't say you would have more money in the end when you earn $10 mil because you might just spend even more then. But just this comfort in your head of knowing that you could earn $5 mil more per year must be overwhelming. It is a psychological thing. Especially taken into consideration that there is always the risk that a career might end much sooner than you hope (injury etc.)
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On February 13 2014 09:40 Liquid`Drone wrote:
no they don't only care about the pay check. Some do, sure, but it's not like Anzhi was as attractive as any of the top tier english or spanish teams.. Torres and Suarez ending up in Liverpool can both be attributed to Liverpool's status and fanbase, not that Liverpool was the wealthiest or best team. It's just silly to make up a number like 99.99% when I would personally think that a minority of players greatly prioritize money over all other factors combined.
Yea I dont think anyone would be interested in a sport if even a third of the pro player community at the highest level were pure mercenaries.
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Norway28875 Posts
On February 14 2014 01:56 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Based on all my observations that I have done in my life (sportsmen, politicians, musicians whatever whatever), I am pretty sure that the majority of players would go to Anzhi in Drone's scenario.
That is just humans in general who are not only greedy as sharkie said, but they also love the feeling of safety. With safety I mean having sufficient money for the rest of your life for you and your family.
I don't say you would have more money in the end when you earn $10 mil because you might just spend even more then. But just this comfort in your head of knowing that you could earn $5 mil more per year must be overwhelming. It is a psychological thing. Especially taken into consideration that there is always the risk that a career might end much sooner than you hope (injury etc.)
With the exception of players with serious gambling problems (granted, there are quite a lot of those) then any player older than 24 who might be offered a contract by a top tier European team is gonna be operating under the assumption that they are set for life.
Like, I accept that there are like, 1: players who lost their money gambling, 2: players who are old and over the top and 3: actually genuinely rare players like Batistuta who claimed never to enjoy the game and whom was only playing for the money, and these three groups are gonna greatly prioritize wealth.. But Ronaldo or Messi wouldn't go to Anzhi even if their salary was doubled. And I think very few starting players playing for real madrid, barcelona, arsenal, united, bayern munchen, chelsea, would change to a much inferior team even if their salaries were very much increased. There's a reason why none of the russian teams have actually managed to form competitive CL teams whereas City and Chelsea quickly became world class after they got their wealth - people care a lot about what league they are in etc.
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People underestimate the amount of influence that agents have. Most of thetime it doesnt matter that much what the players want when their agents only work into the direction towards them making the most money. They get their portion from transfer fees, commercial deal and stuff like that so they often have other interest than the player they represent.
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On February 14 2014 05:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:
With the exception of players with serious gambling problems (granted, there are quite a lot of those) then any player older than 24 who might be offered a contract by a top tier European team is gonna be operating under the assumption that they are set for life.
You don't need to have gambling problems, as soon as you have money you will have many "friends" with awesome investment plans that can't fail , people waste money for lots of shit and stuff. The fact that you are a pro player does not mean that you are smart and there are actually quite a few who don't end their career with a loaded bank account despite earning millions/year for some time.
You don't suddenly stop to want more money only because your bank account hit seven figures.
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You have to keep in mind that a professional career can end with the next injury. And most of the players have very little education besides school and never done a "normal" job.
Also the usual footbal career ends with ~35 years and i think a lot of players want to keep their livestyle and maybe more importantly secure a carefree live for their kids.
Thats also what bugs me on some of the transfer dicussions, that there is more to it than just money or prespective most of these guys married early and have a family that has something to say in some cases.
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On February 14 2014 05:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 01:56 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Based on all my observations that I have done in my life (sportsmen, politicians, musicians whatever whatever), I am pretty sure that the majority of players would go to Anzhi in Drone's scenario.
That is just humans in general who are not only greedy as sharkie said, but they also love the feeling of safety. With safety I mean having sufficient money for the rest of your life for you and your family.
I don't say you would have more money in the end when you earn $10 mil because you might just spend even more then. But just this comfort in your head of knowing that you could earn $5 mil more per year must be overwhelming. It is a psychological thing. Especially taken into consideration that there is always the risk that a career might end much sooner than you hope (injury etc.) and 3: actually genuinely rare players like Batistuta who claimed never to enjoy the game and whom was only playing for the money, and these three groups are gonna greatly prioritize wealth..
I don't know where you are getting this from but I'm sure you are taking it completely out of context.
The guy stayed with Fiorentina when they dropped to Serie B, also he spent 9 seasons there despite numerous offers for him from top clubs.
They even had a statue of him over there, which the heartbroken fans dismantled for souvenirs after he went to Roma.
I just find it weird that you mentioned this legend when there are people like Figo, Pirlo, RvP, Gotze etc.
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Norway28875 Posts
listen, I'm not talking about those players who make $300k per year, or even $1 million per year. I understand that when you are in that range, then yeah, you want to make more because you want to secure yourself for life and you want to live lavishly forever. But that's not where any of the top players we are talking about now are.. I don't have the exact numbers and I dunno where to go digging really, but I'd guess there's somewhere between 50 and 100 players who make more than $10 million per year. If you go down to $5 million per year, then the number becomes much higher. These are numbers where if you make that amount of money for three years, then you can spend obscene amounts forever. The Ballotellis who buy a car to get to one destination to the other are not the average players. And I'm saying that top clubs are in competition for players who are already well above the threshold for where money is the most important factor. Yes they want money and yeah I did kinda disregard the agents perspective from my previous arguments - they are absolutely a factor in making players seem greedier, and often they want to be among the highest payed players within their club because anything else is actually kind of offensive, but I just refuse to accept the notion that a majority of players would let their careers plummet just so they can make $10 mill per year instead of $5 mill per year. Last two years of your career - sure. As a 25 year old ready to conquer the world? No way.
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Norway28875 Posts
On February 14 2014 06:47 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 05:08 Liquid`Drone wrote:On February 14 2014 01:56 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
Based on all my observations that I have done in my life (sportsmen, politicians, musicians whatever whatever), I am pretty sure that the majority of players would go to Anzhi in Drone's scenario.
That is just humans in general who are not only greedy as sharkie said, but they also love the feeling of safety. With safety I mean having sufficient money for the rest of your life for you and your family.
I don't say you would have more money in the end when you earn $10 mil because you might just spend even more then. But just this comfort in your head of knowing that you could earn $5 mil more per year must be overwhelming. It is a psychological thing. Especially taken into consideration that there is always the risk that a career might end much sooner than you hope (injury etc.) and 3: actually genuinely rare players like Batistuta who claimed never to enjoy the game and whom was only playing for the money, and these three groups are gonna greatly prioritize wealth.. I don't know where you are getting this from but I'm sure you are taking it completely out of context. The guy stayed with Fiorentina when they dropped to Serie B, also he spent 9 seasons there despite numerous offers for him from top clubs. They even had a statue of him over there, which the heartbroken fans dismantled for souvenirs after he went to Roma. I just find it weird that you mentioned this legend when there are people like Figo, Pirlo, RvP, Gotze etc.
I got it from an interview with him which I read many years ago. He downright stated that he never enjoyed football and was only doing it for so long because he was really good at it and loved the money. It's very possible that this interview was exaggerated or wrongly translated or whatever, but I'm 100% certain I read it and I didn't have any immediate reason to think it was bs.
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EPT
