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On January 13 2014 22:23 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 21:14 Twisted wrote:
He might disagree, won't make it any less true.
Xavi > Scholes imo. Actually scholes agrees with that assessment rather Xavi disagrees haha, basically they each think the other is better than himself. Anyway to me Xavi = Scholes, no reason to say one is better than the other given everything these guys have achieved and their amazing abilities. Scholes just had the bad luck to have been born an Englishman where for years Beckham's looks were top priority in England  Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 22:12 Mandalor wrote:On January 13 2014 22:07 wingpawn wrote:
This "World's Top Player" situation reminds me of Korean BW scene right before the SC2 shutdown. We have ridiculously good Cristiano "Jaedong" Ronaldo who has the misfortune of playing in times of even better Lionel "Flash" Messi. The only difference is that Franck "Bisu" Ribery recently wins more titles than those two combined... Ha This comparison is surprisingly accurate Ronaldo definitely deserved it this year. I don't understand why titles should have any influence on this award at all, unless one player basically carried his team to these titles ( and that surely wasn't the case with Ribery). Was looking at the stats and it was funny that Ronaldo scored 3 times as many goals as Ribery and almost as many assists, yet zero prizes. Ronaldo is wasted at Madrid lol. Anyway I was talking about this with a bunch of friends and we all came to the hilarious conclusion that in history there may never have been a clearer second best player xD
While we come to the same conclusion, I really don't like this numbers game. Number of goals/assists doesn't justify being named the best player of the year in my eyes. There's so much more to take into account other than that. Like:
- Making the big plays when it counts. Scoring a goal in a CL finals should be worth much, much more than scoring a goal against a small team in one of many league matches.
- Scoring something like 5 goals in a single match, while definitely an impressive feat, usually is more of a sign of one team being complete shite than the other playing a great match. Therefore scoring lots of goals against that team is less impressive, imo, than scoring one against a top team in good shape.
- Pass accuracy, tackles won, number of clutch passes vs lucky assists, possession lost / gained should also be taken into account.
Also Ronaldo frequently is the main man for penalties and free kicks for RM while Bayern has several players for these tasks. It's not exactly fair to compare the number of goals scored for these players when Ronaldo scored something like 30% of these from free kicks and penalties. Overall, RM relies much more on Ronaldo (and Barca much more on Messi) than Bayern does on Ribery. Whether that's a sign of Ronaldo/Messi being so much better than Ribery or their respective squads just being weaker than Bayern's is up for debate I guess.
Again, Ronaldo has been the most impressive player by far this year in my eyes, but all these infographics displaying a very limited amount of information don't do it for me. There's so much more to being the best player of the year than scoring a lot of goals imo.
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From a simple eye test I'm pretty sure it's obvious that Ronaldo makes more of a difference to his team than Ribery. I think that's a big element. Ribery fits in well and performs his job excellently but he doesn't dominate and take over games the same way.
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Of course numbers don't paint the complete picture, but in combination with the amount of trophies it is a funny comparison to make as they do show that Ribery has a team around which is good enough to not have to rely on him as their only source of creativity and goals. Which frankly Ronaldo is for both club and country.
On January 13 2014 22:12 Mandalor wrote:
While we come to the same conclusion, I really don't like this numbers game. Number of goals/assists doesn't justify being named the best player of the year in my eyes. There's so much more to take into account other than that. Like:
- Making the big plays when it counts. Scoring a goal in a CL finals should be worth much, much more than scoring a goal against a small team in one of many league matches.
I want to elaborate on something though. The meaning of the goal is important too, scoring an equalizer or a winning goal against a small team is worth more to me than scoring the 4th goal in a 4-0 victory in the Champions league.
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On January 13 2014 22:23 Ysellian wrote:
Was looking at the stats and it was funny that Ronaldo scored 3 times as many goals as Ribery and almost as many assists, yet zero prizes. Ronaldo is wasted at Madrid lol. Anyway I was talking about this with a bunch of friends and we all came to the hilarious conclusion that in history there may never have been a clearer second best player xD
Gomez scored a lot more goals than Ribery aswell, yet he wasn't as good and Bayern didn't win big titles with him. Individual stats don't mean shit in football :p
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Anyway, I think that the fact that they prolonged the time for vote in a arbitrary way, just after Crisitano 3-2 against Sweeden, just illegitimate the award this year. I think Rivery would have won it without that change.
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On January 13 2014 23:12 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 22:23 Ysellian wrote:
Was looking at the stats and it was funny that Ronaldo scored 3 times as many goals as Ribery and almost as many assists, yet zero prizes. Ronaldo is wasted at Madrid lol. Anyway I was talking about this with a bunch of friends and we all came to the hilarious conclusion that in history there may never have been a clearer second best player xD Gomez scored a lot more goals than Ribery aswell, yet he wasn't as good and Bayern didn't win big titles with him. Individual stats don't mean shit in football :p
Yeah, but Gomez is a striker and Ronaldo plays in the same position as Ribery. So there is some justification to the direct comparison. However what surprised me most about the stats wasn't the amount of goals, but rather that the amount of assists was so close. I expected Ribery to be in the 30 assists given how everyone was talking about him.
On January 13 2014 23:18 haitike wrote:
Anyway, I think that the fact that they prolonged the time for vote in a arbitrary way, just after Crisitano 3-2 against Sweeden, just illegitimate the award this year. I think Rivery would have won it without that change.
Typical FIFA though. First close the voting ridiculously soon and then reopen them when everyone was protesting. I just hope next time they leave the voting open and not make it such a farce.
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On January 13 2014 23:12 clusen wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 22:23 Ysellian wrote:
Was looking at the stats and it was funny that Ronaldo scored 3 times as many goals as Ribery and almost as many assists, yet zero prizes. Ronaldo is wasted at Madrid lol. Anyway I was talking about this with a bunch of friends and we all came to the hilarious conclusion that in history there may never have been a clearer second best player xD Gomez scored a lot more goals than Ribery aswell, yet he wasn't as good and Bayern didn't win big titles with him. Individual stats don't mean shit in football :p
Normally they don't, because everyone has pretty much the same stats.
I remember all these years the golden boot winner usually had around 30-40 goals in all competitions.
And then there's messi and cristiano that score no less than 60 goals every season breaking decades old records.
In 2012 messi scored 91 freaking goals, other top strikers need 2.5 seasons to score that much, you just can't ignore these numbers.
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On January 13 2014 22:07 wingpawn wrote:
This "World's Top Player" situation reminds me of Korean BW scene right before the SC2 shutdown. We have ridiculously good Cristiano "Jaedong" Ronaldo who has the misfortune of playing in times of even better Lionel "Flash" Messi. The only difference is that Franck "Bisu" Ribery recently wins more titles than those two combined...
and who is fantasy who was clearly a superior terran in every way before the end of BW
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Next week will be the best for football discussions. The longest period of time until the next election.
Its just stupid, you can vote a MVP in Basketball, Baseball or even Formula1 but football. Doesn´t. Work. Like. That.
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On January 13 2014 23:19 Ysellian wrote:
Yeah, but Gomez is a striker and Ronaldo plays in the same position as Ribery. So there is some justification to the direct comparison. However what surprised me most about the stats wasn't the amount of goals, but rather that the amount of assists was so close. I expected Ribery to be in the 30 assists given how everyone was talking about him.
Playing in the same position does not mean that you play the same thing tactically.
Ribery is the uncontrollable guy who forces atleast 2, usually 3 guys to defend him, which opens up space for other players. He is insanely good at that. He also put teams success over individual success, he played basically left-back in a few games :p Stats don't show what he brings to the team.
Was he the best player last year tho? I don't think so.
I mentioned Gomez because he shows that individual stats just don't mean much in the grand scheme of things. His departure didn't hurt Bayern, quite the contrary. He scored over 40 goals 11/12 for Bayern in official games, so just a few goals less than CR/Messi scored for their clubs in that season(Messi won the golden shoe with 49 or something I think).
I'm not arguing against the fact that CR should win out of Messi/CR/Ribery, but in my opinion those three should not be the top 3 in the first place.
@Steveling
You mention a good point! When Gerd Müller set the record Messi broke(because he played more games that year than Müller did :p ) he wasn't considered the best player in the world because he scored so many goals, he was the best striker in the world. Beckenbauer was still regarded as the better player.
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Yes CR scored lots of goals in 2013. Lots of useless goals because they lead to not a single trophie
And since goals mean that much, defenders/goalies are officially fucked.
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On January 13 2014 23:25 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2014 22:07 wingpawn wrote:
This "World's Top Player" situation reminds me of Korean BW scene right before the SC2 shutdown. We have ridiculously good Cristiano "Jaedong" Ronaldo who has the misfortune of playing in times of even better Lionel "Flash" Messi. The only difference is that Franck "Bisu" Ribery recently wins more titles than those two combined... and who is fantasy who was clearly a superior terran in every way before the end of BW
Huh sorry to be off topic but this is in no way true. Yes when BW was winding down Flash came off the pedestal but when he was on top, had Fantasy be challenging him like he was later, he would have crushed him.
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Clusen who are your top 3 players then?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Problem with Suarez he scored all his goals last half of 2013. Now he has to restart and do it all over again!
He currently has 3 goals in 2 games in 2014. If he keeps it up he might be worthy contender for 2014! But 2k14 is the year of Torres i have said this! 2 goals in 2 games so far! ONWARDS AND UPWARDS FOR EL NINO
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You know what...Fair point. Suarez has been unbe-freaking-credible
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On January 14 2014 00:26 sc4k wrote:You know what...Fair point. Suarez has been unbe-freaking-credible
And he doesn't play on a team full of world class players like Ronaldo, Messi, and Ribery do.
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I'm the only one that think it is has no sense that they give ballon d'Or in January? They should give it in Summer, so you can analize a whole season, and not two differents half seasons like it happens now.
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On January 14 2014 00:32 haitike wrote:
I'm the only one that think it is has no sense that they give ballon d'Or in January? They should give it in Summer, so you can analize a whole season, and not two differents half seasons like it happens now.
No, everyone thinks its stupid to give it out in January
But unfortunately the higher ups dont think so XD
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EPT![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bd0AulpIcAAXiJZ.jpg)
