On December 04 2013 07:42 Ethelis wrote: The ones who predicted last season correctly, predicted Messi > CR7 > Ribery this season.
That would be awesome :D I just hope that Cristiano doesn't win. Not because he doesn't deserve it (my opinion is that he probably deserves it, but winning title should be more important for this award), but because of the freaking ridiculous campaign Real Madrid and pro-Madrid medias have been doing for almost 1 month now.
Two good examples, Sunday, Ronaldo received the "Di Stefano" Award of Best La Liga 2012-13 player, which is a Marca Award. Let me just remind that Messi finished first in the goal scoring count and actually won La Liga. For this award, that is NOT an official award, Marca created a big news on their website "Ronaldo wins it again!" (he won it the previous season). Not even a mention of Messi receiving the Pichichi award (best goal scorer).
And Monday was the funniest propaganda bullshit they've done recently. Monday night, there was the LFP (Liga de Futbol Profesional) Awards ceremony in which Messi won the Best Player of the Season Award and the Best Attacking Player Award. Ronaldo won the Bravest Player Award which was created this year and wasn't even presented two weeks ago when they talked about the nominees for every award (something fishy, you say?). Ok let's say this award is not a bullshit award created to make Florentino happy and keep CR7 propaganda alive. AS and MARCA, the 2 most read newspapers (and pro-Madrid of course) put on their webpage (and on Tuesday's newspaper frontpage for AS): "Cristiano Ronaldo, MVP of La Liga 2012-13". As far as I know, MVP means Most VALUABLE Player, not Most Vaillant Player... Not only that but Marca published the full list of the prizewinning players for each categories in which they "forgot" to put the "Best player of La Liga" category (which Messi won). Even funnier, AS wrote in small characters (just under the big ass Cristiano MVP title) "Messi console himself by getting the Best Player Award and the Best Attacking Player award". Console himself???
It's nothing new of course, they said that Morata (or Jese, can't remember) was the MVP for the last trophy won by the Spanish youngster team when it was actually Deulofeu (by the way, Monday they also forgot to mention that Deulofeu was voted Best La Liga Adelante Player 2012-13), and the same for another trophy where they declared that the MVP was Jese (or Morata, can't remember!!!) when it was actually Thiago Alcantara.
I pass on Ancelotti saying "when you have Cristiano Ronaldo in your team, why would you want to also have Messi in it?" and this kind of commentaries that have been legion this last month... If CR doesn't win the Ballon d'Or it will be magnificent. Tears, everywhere.
So thats what they call "sports journalism" in spain...
On what is this list based? If you go on pure goals sure its Messi and Ronaldo but with that argument you find someone somewhere with more goals for sure. If you go after "beeing the most important player on a winning team" there is no way around Ribery. What about consistency? If you measure that it has to be Phillipp Lahm who is almost perfect every week.
This is just lobbying and looking who has the best FIFA ingame stats.
What is Neymar doing there? most of 2013 he played in a league were most of the teams wouldn't make it in PL or Bundesliga or at least fight against descent to league 2. Or Bale? He didn´t play a single game on international level. What about Robben? He did the deciding goal in CL final but what most people forget/don´t know he was injured at the beginning of the year and he played in the CL (semi)-Final because Toni Kroos was injured. Without that he most likely wouldn't have played.
Well the Ballon d'Or made some sense before, but now it doesn't. Before it was meant to reward a player that made the year special, mostly by winning important trophies. That's why Cannavaro won it in 2006 (instead of Zidane or Henry) for example.
Now the Ballon d'Or rewards the best player of the year, regardless of his trophies. Messi won it in 2010 I still don't know why (Sneijder or Iniesta/Xavi should have won it) and in 2012 (Iniesta again or maybe Drogba/Cech???) which was a bit different (as he destroyed every record) but still not deserved if we took the last system.
So when this has been said, you have two ways to look at this trophy:
1) You regret the old system and you complain every year because X or Y hasn't won the award despite winning every trophy there is to win in one season
2) You say "whatever" and you just enjoy the mediatic warfare between the clubs to make their players win. In that case you just have to accept that they're going to give the Ballon d'Or to the most talented/shiny/marketing player of the year, which is always going to be Messi vs CR, and maybe someday Neymar vs Bale. No matter how hard Ribery, Lahm, Sneijder, and Iniesta try, they won't win against these guys.
Imo, if they want to give the Ballon d'Or to the best player of the year, they should just give it to Messi every year until the end of his career
Also, this trophy is stupid because it takes into account a calendar year instead of the normal seasons. It just makes no sense. What is going on between August and December? Nothing, games without importance against small teams (for the CL) and meaningless trophies (European Supercup, Supercopa, Community Shield, etc...). So the memories of the trophies from May-July are far away and we only remember the extraordinary (but useless) performances from Messi/Ronaldo against Almeria or Valladolid :s
Gareth Bale (Wales), good choice because of his performance at Tottenham, but he was injured for quite some time Edinson Cavani (Uruguay), scored a lot of goals but so what? it was "only" serie A. overrated in my opinion Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal), my favourite for the best offensive player Radamel Falcao (Colombia), definitely a great player, he should have stayed or chosen another team though Eden Hazard (Belgium), good player, but not good enough for this title (yet) Zlatan Ibrahimović (Sweden), would be a fair choice, he is outstanding Andrés Iniesta (Spain), far below his actual skill level this year Philipp Lahm (Germany), my favourite for the best defensive player Robert Lewandowski (Poland), great player but misses too many chances Lionel Messi (Argentina), injured for too long. in my opinion he is better than CR7 but not this year. Thomas Müller (Germany), good overall player but on the lower end of this list Manuel Neuer (Germany), maybe the best keeper in the world, but not outstanding enough for this title. as the keeper from Bayern, he just does not get that many chances to prove himself Neymar (Brazil), very gifted, but not good enough (yet) Mesut Özil (Germany), can be magnificent, but never against great teams in important matches Andrea Pirlo (Italy), well he is definitely really good... but just not good enough Franck Ribéry (France), good choice, a brilliant player although i would still rate CR7 a little over him Arjen Robben (Netherlands), almost the same as for Ribery Bastian Schweinsteiger (Germany), just no, I would rather nominate Martinez or Gündogan Luis Suárez (Uruguay), great player, but he needs to prove in the CL Thiago Silva (Brazil), still has to prove a lot Yaya Touré (Côte d’Ivoire), he does not belong to the cream of the crop but he is not far away Robin Van Persie (Netherlands), for me the best "real" striker behind Ibrahimovic Xavi (Spain), might be even last on my list, this was not his year
Attacking midfielders and forwards are more often considered for prizes because they have a bigger impact on the game than a defender or goalkeeper can have, ie. a team with a world class striker or attacking midfielder and 10 absolutely average players is more likely better than a team with a world class defender and 10 absolutely average players.
Lets say Philipp Lahm and Cristiano Ronaldo were at the same level in 2013. If they were on different teams, each with 10 equally average random players, who would you bet on to win? I'd say the vast majority would bet on Cristiano Ronaldo's team.
Now that may be unfair for defenders, gks and defensive midfielders, but at the same time, the footballing world is probably much more competitive for forwards than for other positions.
On December 04 2013 18:43 MapleLeafSirup wrote: my opinions in bold:
Gareth Bale (Wales), good choice because of his performance at Tottenham, but he was injured for quite some time Edinson Cavani (Uruguay), scored a lot of goals but so what? it was "only" serie A. overrated in my opinion Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal), my favourite for the best offensive player Radamel Falcao (Colombia), definitely a great player, he should have stayed or chosen another team though Eden Hazard (Belgium), good player, but not good enough for this title (yet) Zlatan Ibrahimović (Sweden), would be a fair choice, he is outstanding Andrés Iniesta (Spain), far below his actual skill level this year Philipp Lahm (Germany), my favourite for the best defensive player Robert Lewandowski (Poland), great player but misses too many chances Lionel Messi (Argentina), injured for too long. in my opinion he is better than CR7 but not this year. Thomas Müller (Germany), good overall player but on the lower end of this list Manuel Neuer (Germany), maybe the best keeper in the world, but not outstanding enough for this title. as the keeper from Bayern, he just does not get that many chances to prove himself Neymar (Brazil), very gifted, but not good enough (yet) Mesut Özil (Germany), can be magnificent, but never against great teams in important matches Andrea Pirlo (Italy), well he is definitely really good... but just not good enough Franck Ribéry (France), good choice, a brilliant player although i would still rate CR7 a little over him Arjen Robben (Netherlands), almost the same as for Ribery Bastian Schweinsteiger (Germany), just no, I would rather nominate Martinez or Gündogan Luis Suárez (Uruguay), great player, but he needs to prove in the CL Thiago Silva (Brazil), still has to prove a lot Yaya Touré (Côte d’Ivoire), he does not belong to the cream of the crop but he is not far away Robin Van Persie (Netherlands), for me the best "real" striker behind Ibrahimovic Xavi (Spain), might be even last on my list, this was not his year
my conclusion: share it among CR7 and Lahm
I like your list although neuer is nowhere near the best keeper in the world. He is barely in the top 20.
On December 04 2013 20:29 warding wrote: Attacking midfielders and forwards are more often considered for prizes because they have a bigger impact on the game than a defender or goalkeeper can have.
So many games are decided by goalkeepers, I think their importance is generally underestimated.
To score, you always have to overcome the goalkeeper, he is the most important player during set pieces, and his distribution is vital for team tactics. A modern goalkeeper does even more than that, as he provides another passing option, he is the last open man so to speak.
On December 04 2013 20:29 warding wrote: Attacking midfielders and forwards are more often considered for prizes because they have a bigger impact on the game than a defender or goalkeeper can have, ie. a team with a world class striker or attacking midfielder and 10 absolutely average players is more likely better than a team with a world class defender and 10 absolutely average players.
Lets say Philipp Lahm and Cristiano Ronaldo were at the same level in 2013. If they were on different teams, each with 10 equally average random players, who would you bet on to win? I'd say the vast majority would bet on Cristiano Ronaldo's team.
Now that may be unfair for defenders, gks and defensive midfielders, but at the same time, the footballing world is probably much more competitive for forwards than for other positions.
I wouldn't. Philipp lahn stands directly against Ronaldo in that scenario, so result 0-0 against Germany so they win by default (Penalties )
On December 04 2013 20:29 warding wrote: Attacking midfielders and forwards are more often considered for prizes because they have a bigger impact on the game than a defender or goalkeeper can have, ie. a team with a world class striker or attacking midfielder and 10 absolutely average players is more likely better than a team with a world class defender and 10 absolutely average players.
Lets say Philipp Lahm and Cristiano Ronaldo were at the same level in 2013. If they were on different teams, each with 10 equally average random players, who would you bet on to win? I'd say the vast majority would bet on Cristiano Ronaldo's team.
Now that may be unfair for defenders, gks and defensive midfielders, but at the same time, the footballing world is probably much more competitive for forwards than for other positions.
I wouldn't. Philipp lahn stands directly against Ronaldo in that scenario, so result 0-0 against Germany so they win by default (Penalties )
this young generation of Germans arent good at penalties anymore they all shoot pks like sissies
On December 04 2013 18:43 MapleLeafSirup wrote: my opinions in bold:
Gareth Bale (Wales), good choice because of his performance at Tottenham, but he was injured for quite some time Edinson Cavani (Uruguay), scored a lot of goals but so what? it was "only" serie A. overrated in my opinion Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal), my favourite for the best offensive player Radamel Falcao (Colombia), definitely a great player, he should have stayed or chosen another team though Eden Hazard (Belgium), good player, but not good enough for this title (yet) Zlatan Ibrahimović (Sweden), would be a fair choice, he is outstanding Andrés Iniesta (Spain), far below his actual skill level this year Philipp Lahm (Germany), my favourite for the best defensive player Robert Lewandowski (Poland), great player but misses too many chances Lionel Messi (Argentina), injured for too long. in my opinion he is better than CR7 but not this year. Thomas Müller (Germany), good overall player but on the lower end of this list Manuel Neuer (Germany), maybe the best keeper in the world, but not outstanding enough for this title. as the keeper from Bayern, he just does not get that many chances to prove himself Neymar (Brazil), very gifted, but not good enough (yet) Mesut Özil (Germany), can be magnificent, but never against great teams in important matches Andrea Pirlo (Italy), well he is definitely really good... but just not good enough Franck Ribéry (France), good choice, a brilliant player although i would still rate CR7 a little over him Arjen Robben (Netherlands), almost the same as for Ribery Bastian Schweinsteiger (Germany), just no, I would rather nominate Martinez or Gündogan Luis Suárez (Uruguay), great player, but he needs to prove in the CL Thiago Silva (Brazil), still has to prove a lot Yaya Touré (Côte d’Ivoire), he does not belong to the cream of the crop but he is not far away Robin Van Persie (Netherlands), for me the best "real" striker behind Ibrahimovic Xavi (Spain), might be even last on my list, this was not his year
my conclusion: share it among CR7 and Lahm
I like your list although neuer is nowhere near the best keeper in the world. He is barely in the top 20.
No offense, but please tell me at least 3 that are "better" and why. There is a reason why he currently has the highest transfer prize of all keepers.
Lille's GK in Ligue 1 (Vincent Enyeama) hasn't taken a goal for over 1000 minutes. Yesterday in a game against Marseille he had some amazing saves too so it's not just luck or having good defenders.
On December 04 2013 20:29 warding wrote: Attacking midfielders and forwards are more often considered for prizes because they have a bigger impact on the game than a defender or goalkeeper can have.
So many games are decided by goalkeepers, I think their importance is generally underestimated.
To score, you always have to overcome the goalkeeper, he is the most important player during set pieces, and his distribution is vital for team tactics. A modern goalkeeper does even more than that, as he provides another passing option, he is the last open man so to speak.
How do we explain the difference in transfer fees between gk's and other players then? Either the variance in quality is much lower in GK's compared to other positions, or it is much harder to observe objectively, or both.
On December 04 2013 20:29 warding wrote: Attacking midfielders and forwards are more often considered for prizes because they have a bigger impact on the game than a defender or goalkeeper can have, ie. a team with a world class striker or attacking midfielder and 10 absolutely average players is more likely better than a team with a world class defender and 10 absolutely average players.
Lets say Philipp Lahm and Cristiano Ronaldo were at the same level in 2013. If they were on different teams, each with 10 equally average random players, who would you bet on to win? I'd say the vast majority would bet on Cristiano Ronaldo's team.
Now that may be unfair for defenders, gks and defensive midfielders, but at the same time, the footballing world is probably much more competitive for forwards than for other positions.
I wouldn't. Philipp lahn stands directly against Ronaldo in that scenario, so result 0-0 against Germany so they win by default (Penalties )
this young generation of Germans arent good at penalties anymore they all shoot pks like sissies
Should be added taste to this match Moyes unbeaten in 12 games now for Yanited even though their has been a few unwanted draws in that they still played and beat Arsenal. Everton is also only 1 defeat all season but have had alot of draws, they do score a few though so could be goals galore.
On December 04 2013 07:42 Ethelis wrote: The ones who predicted last season correctly, predicted Messi > CR7 > Ribery this season.
That would be awesome :D I just hope that Cristiano doesn't win. Not because he doesn't deserve it (my opinion is that he probably deserves it, but winning title should be more important for this award), but because of the freaking ridiculous campaign Real Madrid and pro-Madrid medias have been doing for almost 1 month now.
Two good examples, Sunday, Ronaldo received the "Di Stefano" Award of Best La Liga 2012-13 player, which is a Marca Award. Let me just remind that Messi finished first in the goal scoring count and actually won La Liga. For this award, that is NOT an official award, Marca created a big news on their website "Ronaldo wins it again!" (he won it the previous season). Not even a mention of Messi receiving the Pichichi award (best goal scorer).
And Monday was the funniest propaganda bullshit they've done recently. Monday night, there was the LFP (Liga de Futbol Profesional) Awards ceremony in which Messi won the Best Player of the Season Award and the Best Attacking Player Award. Ronaldo won the Bravest Player Award which was created this year and wasn't even presented two weeks ago when they talked about the nominees for every award (something fishy, you say?). Ok let's say this award is not a bullshit award created to make Florentino happy and keep CR7 propaganda alive. AS and MARCA, the 2 most read newspapers (and pro-Madrid of course) put on their webpage (and on Tuesday's newspaper frontpage for AS): "Cristiano Ronaldo, MVP of La Liga 2012-13". As far as I know, MVP means Most VALUABLE Player, not Most Vaillant Player... Not only that but Marca published the full list of the prizewinning players for each categories in which they "forgot" to put the "Best player of La Liga" category (which Messi won). Even funnier, AS wrote in small characters (just under the big ass Cristiano MVP title) "Messi console himself by getting the Best Player Award and the Best Attacking Player award". Console himself???
It's nothing new of course, they said that Morata (or Jese, can't remember) was the MVP for the last trophy won by the Spanish youngster team when it was actually Deulofeu (by the way, Monday they also forgot to mention that Deulofeu was voted Best La Liga Adelante Player 2012-13), and the same for another trophy where they declared that the MVP was Jese (or Morata, can't remember!!!) when it was actually Thiago Alcantara.
I pass on Ancelotti saying "when you have Cristiano Ronaldo in your team, why would you want to also have Messi in it?" and this kind of commentaries that have been legion this last month... If CR doesn't win the Ballon d'Or it will be magnificent. Tears, everywhere.
I totally agree, having read Marca and AS the last couple months has been so much pro madrid propaganda bullshit for ronaldo getting the ballon d'or which he eventually will. First award i have never even heard of it i was like WTF
On December 04 2013 22:27 Pandemona wrote: Nice game tonight in Premier League;
Man Utd vs Everton - Kick Off 19:45 GMT (+00:00)
Should be added taste to this match Moyes unbeaten in 12 games now for Yanited even though their has been a few unwanted draws in that they still played and beat Arsenal. Everton is also only 1 defeat all season but have had alot of draws, they do score a few though so could be goals galore.
Yeah, should be a great game I actually think Everton can win this one.
On December 04 2013 18:43 MapleLeafSirup wrote: my opinions in bold:
Gareth Bale (Wales), good choice because of his performance at Tottenham, but he was injured for quite some time Edinson Cavani (Uruguay), scored a lot of goals but so what? it was "only" serie A. overrated in my opinion Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal), my favourite for the best offensive player Radamel Falcao (Colombia), definitely a great player, he should have stayed or chosen another team though Eden Hazard (Belgium), good player, but not good enough for this title (yet) Zlatan Ibrahimović (Sweden), would be a fair choice, he is outstanding Andrés Iniesta (Spain), far below his actual skill level this year Philipp Lahm (Germany), my favourite for the best defensive player Robert Lewandowski (Poland), great player but misses too many chances Lionel Messi (Argentina), injured for too long. in my opinion he is better than CR7 but not this year. Thomas Müller (Germany), good overall player but on the lower end of this list Manuel Neuer (Germany), maybe the best keeper in the world, but not outstanding enough for this title. as the keeper from Bayern, he just does not get that many chances to prove himself Neymar (Brazil), very gifted, but not good enough (yet) Mesut Özil (Germany), can be magnificent, but never against great teams in important matches Andrea Pirlo (Italy), well he is definitely really good... but just not good enough Franck Ribéry (France), good choice, a brilliant player although i would still rate CR7 a little over him Arjen Robben (Netherlands), almost the same as for Ribery Bastian Schweinsteiger (Germany), just no, I would rather nominate Martinez or Gündogan Luis Suárez (Uruguay), great player, but he needs to prove in the CL Thiago Silva (Brazil), still has to prove a lot Yaya Touré (Côte d’Ivoire), he does not belong to the cream of the crop but he is not far away Robin Van Persie (Netherlands), for me the best "real" striker behind Ibrahimovic Xavi (Spain), might be even last on my list, this was not his year
my conclusion: share it among CR7 and Lahm
I like your list although neuer is nowhere near the best keeper in the world. He is barely in the top 20.
No offense, but please tell me at least 3 that are "better" and why. There is a reason why he currently has the highest transfer prize of all keepers.
Here is the reason. He does stuff like this almost every game I see him play.
It's weird seeing neuer doing a terrible mistake like that, it's almost as if he did it on purpose. But honestly, he hadn't seen the kazakh play coming on his left side which he should've
Yeah, I also think neyer or whatever you spell it, is kinda overrated, he seems to be like a bartez clone, his game is on par with the best most of the time but he makes many clown plays.
EPT
