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On July 05 2013 01:30 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:06 sc4k wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? Not really. I mean, no team could do what Stoke did when they had delapp and his uber long throw. It's just abusing a physical hack. Just like Barca's tiki taka skills comes from stacking their team with midgets with low centre of gravity and retardedly good passing skill. Regardless of how difficult it is, it just looks terrible and is complete wank. The level of enjoyment I get from watching Barca play is 2/10 consistently. From Bayern/ Man U/ RM it's like 8/10 consistently. From Chelsea I'll admit it's rarely above 5/10, from a pure football perspective, but meh. You don't have to enjoy your team, just support them  . This Barca team certainly could be called one of the best teams ever but just because a team can win and is dominant it does not necessarily make them exciting. And you watch sports to be entertained primarily, surely. You forgot to say "imo". Because in my eyes I'm thrilled to see barca masterfully dictate the pace of the game each and every time. You find it boring, millions of people don't. Like one mate of mine said when we argued about the greatest athlete. He was talking about jordan and he finally said, how can you support this midget messi, jordan is so superior physically it's hilarious. Know what I responded? Well mate, it's exactly cause he's a midget that does all the stuff that players with beastly physical attributes can only be jealous of. People usually try to beat down barca's players using strength and vulgar tackles. They almost always fail. That's the most exciting thing I have ever witnessed in any sport anytime.
First off, I have yet to see Messi carry an otherwise unremarkable team to two three-peats in a highly competitive setting (La Liga doesn't count and he hasn't done it there anyway). Jordan is a fucking monster, and is one of the greatest professional sport players of all time.
Second, if we're talking about pure athleticism, you're gonna have to talk about someone like LeBron. The dude's basically a Greek God carved out of marble. He's incredible.
Third (and I've been waiting a long time to do this), I didn't see that "masterful dictating of the pace of the game" when they got rocked 7-0 in the CL this year...
Aw. Yea.
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On July 05 2013 01:38 UdderChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:23 funkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:02 Zeo wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? It's always easier when you have referee's on your side though *cough* 2008 *cough* #shots fired I say that everyone that bitches about this some more, gets a 2 week ban from this thread. enough with the non sense. stfu. are you seriously saying you deserved to win vs Chelsea in 2008? lol Wasn't the controversial barca-Chelsea game in 2009 semi finals?
^this.
or are we talking about a different game? because i remember thinking that the ref was definitely running around with a wad of cash up his ass in that game.
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On July 05 2013 01:38 UdderChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:23 funkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:02 Zeo wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? It's always easier when you have referee's on your side though *cough* 2008 *cough* #shots fired I say that everyone that bitches about this some more, gets a 2 week ban from this thread. enough with the non sense. stfu. are you seriously saying you deserved to win vs Chelsea in 2008? lol Wasn't the controversial barca-Chelsea game in 2009 semi finals?
yeah, sorry mixed that up
Btw Guardiola calls Badstuber a super super player...
Oh my god, has he never watched a single game of bayern or what?
Badstuber missing this season is one of the reasons Bayern were so dominant. CBs dont need creativity or good passing, they just need to defend well.
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Thats what Chelsea are trying to do now with all these great youth players coming in.
Xavi - Messi/Ronaldinho - Iniesta
All great players in their own right, but take one of them out, would the other two have created as big a impact in world football? What made the team so good wasn't individual skill, it was the same team playing together over a longer period of time working off of each others strength's. Because there is a much longer line of continuity the club has more success then when they were the club that Dutch players went to to retire.
Oscar - Hazzard - de Bruyne - van Ginkel
By themselves they have the potential to be great players at any team/league, but put them on the same team, have them grow as players together over a number of years... and you just might get something very special
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On July 05 2013 01:53 Zeo wrote:
Thats what Chelsea are trying to do now with all these great youth players coming in.
Xavi - Messi/Ronaldinho - Iniesta
All great players in their own right, but take one of them out, would the other two have created as big a impact in world football? What made the team so good wasn't individual skill, it was the same team playing together over a longer period of time working off of each others strength's. Because there is a much longer line of continuity the club has more success then when they were the club that Dutch players went to to retire.
Oscar - Hazzard - de Bruyne - van Ginkel
By themselves they have the potential to be great players at any team/league, but put them on the same team, have them grow as players together over a number of years... and you just might get something very special
id argue that ronaldinho was individual skill. having good players helped, but the amount of times he tried to solo the team just shows that he felt he didnt need to rely on his teammates as much as other players do. might be just my fanboyism, but that guy is crazy.
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On July 05 2013 01:41 evilfatsh1t wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:38 UdderChaos wrote:On July 05 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:23 funkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:02 Zeo wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? It's always easier when you have referee's on your side though *cough* 2008 *cough* #shots fired I say that everyone that bitches about this some more, gets a 2 week ban from this thread. enough with the non sense. stfu. are you seriously saying you deserved to win vs Chelsea in 2008? lol Wasn't the controversial barca-Chelsea game in 2009 semi finals? ^this. or are we talking about a different game? because i remember thinking that the ref was definitely running around with a wad of cash up his ass in that game.
It was the 2008/2009 season... though technically the game was played in the 2009 part...
Depends how you see it, I think last season was the 2012 one, while the one coming up is 2013 (if you had to pick one year)
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On July 05 2013 01:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:30 Steveling wrote:On July 05 2013 01:06 sc4k wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? Not really. I mean, no team could do what Stoke did when they had delapp and his uber long throw. It's just abusing a physical hack. Just like Barca's tiki taka skills comes from stacking their team with midgets with low centre of gravity and retardedly good passing skill. Regardless of how difficult it is, it just looks terrible and is complete wank. The level of enjoyment I get from watching Barca play is 2/10 consistently. From Bayern/ Man U/ RM it's like 8/10 consistently. From Chelsea I'll admit it's rarely above 5/10, from a pure football perspective, but meh. You don't have to enjoy your team, just support them . This Barca team certainly could be called one of the best teams ever but just because a team can win and is dominant it does not necessarily make them exciting. And you watch sports to be entertained primarily, surely. You forgot to say "imo". Because in my eyes I'm thrilled to see barca masterfully dictate the pace of the game each and every time. You find it boring, millions of people don't. Like one mate of mine said when we argued about the greatest athlete. He was talking about jordan and he finally said, how can you support this midget messi, jordan is so superior physically it's hilarious. Know what I responded? Well mate, it's exactly cause he's a midget that does all the stuff that players with beastly physical attributes can only be jealous of. People usually try to beat down barca's players using strength and vulgar tackles. They almost always fail. That's the most exciting thing I have ever witnessed in any sport anytime. First off, I have yet to see Messi carry an otherwise unremarkable team to two three-peats in a highly competitive setting (La Liga doesn't count and he hasn't done it there anyway). Jordan is a fucking monster, and is one of the greatest professional sport players of all time. Second, if we're talking about pure athleticism, you're gonna have to talk about someone like LeBron. The dude's basically a Greek God carved out of marble. He's incredible. Third (and I've been waiting a long time to do this), I didn't see that "masterful dictating of the pace of the game" when they got rocked 7-0 in the CL this year... Aw. Yea.
That last sentence bro, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.
Anyways since when is 5''7 a midget wtf?
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sc4k, you are unable to think objectively about anything regarding your beloved football team Chelsea. It's quite clear.
The following mentality: "You don't have to enjoy your team, just support them ." is clearly at play even while defending them on the forums. It's so clear you're a barcelona hater as well. Anyone with half a brain will look at the barcelona of 2010-2011 and be astonished by their play. it was not only tactically fluid but the utmost attacking as well. like it's already been said, you wish chelsea could play like that. i bet 10,000$ if they did and won trophies, you'd be on the ceiling dancing and singing "HAHA CHELSEA SO MUCH SUPERIOR TO OTHER TEAMS THEY CANT DO WHAT WE DO HAHAH I LOVE TIKI TAKA"
Your'e full of shit and dogmatic. Not a good football fan to talk with. Also about the person that brought up the referees vs chelsea in 2009 UCL; it had nothing to do with the argument that steveling presented which is why some could find it annoying especially when it seems to be brought ever few pages here on TL football threads every time someone brings up the fact that barcelona won a historical amount of trophies. he's entitled to say whatever he likes, but it was largely irrelevant. this is what i mean, you don't think critically, or else you would have realized that but instead, you just call everyone who says anything positive about barcelona fan boys it seems. like you're probably going to call me one even though i'm neutral.
Third (and I've been waiting a long time to do this), I didn't see that "masterful dictating of the pace of the game" when they got rocked 7-0 in the CL this year...
Aw. Yea.
Uses a sample size of two games to prove a point. Seems legit. do you purposefully erase all of his triumphs out of your head? not to mention, i'm fairly positive he just got off a hamstring injury as you can clearly see in game 1 where he was just walking around the entire game (like in game 2 against PSG) and in game 2 i believe he was subbed in late game or not even subbed in at all.. either way, he didn't even really play in game 2 cause the tie was already over. lol nice try though
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On July 05 2013 01:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:30 Steveling wrote:On July 05 2013 01:06 sc4k wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? Not really. I mean, no team could do what Stoke did when they had delapp and his uber long throw. It's just abusing a physical hack. Just like Barca's tiki taka skills comes from stacking their team with midgets with low centre of gravity and retardedly good passing skill. Regardless of how difficult it is, it just looks terrible and is complete wank. The level of enjoyment I get from watching Barca play is 2/10 consistently. From Bayern/ Man U/ RM it's like 8/10 consistently. From Chelsea I'll admit it's rarely above 5/10, from a pure football perspective, but meh. You don't have to enjoy your team, just support them . This Barca team certainly could be called one of the best teams ever but just because a team can win and is dominant it does not necessarily make them exciting. And you watch sports to be entertained primarily, surely. You forgot to say "imo". Because in my eyes I'm thrilled to see barca masterfully dictate the pace of the game each and every time. You find it boring, millions of people don't. Like one mate of mine said when we argued about the greatest athlete. He was talking about jordan and he finally said, how can you support this midget messi, jordan is so superior physically it's hilarious. Know what I responded? Well mate, it's exactly cause he's a midget that does all the stuff that players with beastly physical attributes can only be jealous of. People usually try to beat down barca's players using strength and vulgar tackles. They almost always fail. That's the most exciting thing I have ever witnessed in any sport anytime. First off, I have yet to see Messi carry an otherwise unremarkable team to two three-peats in a highly competitive setting (La Liga doesn't count and he hasn't done it there anyway). Jordan is a fucking monster, and is one of the greatest professional sport players of all time. Second, if we're talking about pure athleticism, you're gonna have to talk about someone like LeBron. The dude's basically a Greek God carved out of marble. He's incredible. Third (and I've been waiting a long time to do this), I didn't see that "masterful dictating of the pace of the game" when they got rocked 7-0 in the CL this year... Aw. Yea.
When someone doesn't recognise messi for what he is I just let the respectable pros do the work for me.
Ibra about messi
+ Show Spoiler +
Rooney about messi
+ Show Spoiler +
Wenger about messi
+ Show Spoiler +
Mourinho about messi
+ Show Spoiler +http://zeenews.india.com/sports/football/mourinho-tells-iniesta-no-messi-no-glory_761021.html
The legend Paolo Maldini about messi on l'equipe interview
+ Show Spoiler +“When I see Messi play, in my opinion, he should win the Ballon d’Or every year. He is an unbelievable player.”
I could go on and on, SAF, Beckenbauer, Buffon, you name it.
So, you'll forgive me if I pass on your opinion about Leo. xD
And about the loss from bayern, well it's not like barca was in top form and messi could barely walk, so.. yeah.
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Chill out bro, its pre-season, no football games going on, the whole point of this thread is to make playful jabs at any teams we don't like and make hype for the new season. If I spazzed out every time someone said something negative about Chelsea I'd be in an institution by now
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On July 05 2013 01:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:30 Steveling wrote:On July 05 2013 01:06 sc4k wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? Not really. I mean, no team could do what Stoke did when they had delapp and his uber long throw. It's just abusing a physical hack. Just like Barca's tiki taka skills comes from stacking their team with midgets with low centre of gravity and retardedly good passing skill. Regardless of how difficult it is, it just looks terrible and is complete wank. The level of enjoyment I get from watching Barca play is 2/10 consistently. From Bayern/ Man U/ RM it's like 8/10 consistently. From Chelsea I'll admit it's rarely above 5/10, from a pure football perspective, but meh. You don't have to enjoy your team, just support them . This Barca team certainly could be called one of the best teams ever but just because a team can win and is dominant it does not necessarily make them exciting. And you watch sports to be entertained primarily, surely. You forgot to say "imo". Because in my eyes I'm thrilled to see barca masterfully dictate the pace of the game each and every time. You find it boring, millions of people don't. Like one mate of mine said when we argued about the greatest athlete. He was talking about jordan and he finally said, how can you support this midget messi, jordan is so superior physically it's hilarious. Know what I responded? Well mate, it's exactly cause he's a midget that does all the stuff that players with beastly physical attributes can only be jealous of. People usually try to beat down barca's players using strength and vulgar tackles. They almost always fail. That's the most exciting thing I have ever witnessed in any sport anytime. First off, I have yet to see Messi carry an otherwise unremarkable team to two three-peats in a highly competitive setting (La Liga doesn't count and he hasn't done it there anyway). Jordan is a fucking monster, and is one of the greatest professional sport players of all time. Second, if we're talking about pure athleticism, you're gonna have to talk about someone like LeBron. The dude's basically a Greek God carved out of marble. He's incredible. Third (and I've been waiting a long time to do this), I didn't see that "masterful dictating of the pace of the game" when they got rocked 7-0 in the CL this year... Aw. Yea.
You realise he was injured right? And Messi being just on the field against PSG without doing anything made them win lol.
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On July 05 2013 02:13 Zeo wrote:
Chill out bro, its pre-season, no football games going on, the whole point of this thread is to make playful jabs at any teams we don't like and make hype for the new season. If I spazzed out every time someone said something negative about Chelsea I'd be in an institution by now
My rumblebad broke today so I have spare time to win forum arguments, lol.
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On July 05 2013 02:18 Steveling wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 02:13 Zeo wrote:
Chill out bro, its pre-season, no football games going on, the whole point of this thread is to make playful jabs at any teams we don't like and make hype for the new season. If I spazzed out every time someone said something negative about Chelsea I'd be in an institution by now My rumblebad broke today so I have spare time to win forum arguments, lol.
Wasn't talking about you Steve <3
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Oh, goes for me as well anyway.
Less fifa more doto2, xD.
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On July 05 2013 01:38 Stratos_speAr wrote:
First off, I have yet to see Messi carry an otherwise unremarkable team to two three-peats in a highly competitive setting [...]
That's not how football works ...
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On July 05 2013 01:45 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:38 UdderChaos wrote:On July 05 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:23 funkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:02 Zeo wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? It's always easier when you have referee's on your side though *cough* 2008 *cough* #shots fired I say that everyone that bitches about this some more, gets a 2 week ban from this thread. enough with the non sense. stfu. are you seriously saying you deserved to win vs Chelsea in 2008? lol Wasn't the controversial barca-Chelsea game in 2009 semi finals? yeah, sorry mixed that up Btw Guardiola calls Badstuber a super super player... Oh my god, has he never watched a single game of bayern or what? Badstuber missing this season is one of the reasons Bayern were so dominant. CBs dont need creativity or good passing, they just need to defend well.
I dont want to offend you but you couldnt be more wrong. Defending is no longer the #1 priority for CB´s. Mainly for 2 reasons:
1. no one can defend Messi, Ronaldo, Ribery & co 1v1 anyway. When you get in situations were a high level player get 1v1 against a CB you are in huge trouble no matter who the defender is. That means someone who can "only" defend will never get a place at a top team because his main skill "defending" gets less important the higher the level of play is.
An example for this: Daniel van Buyten. He was a big part of the Bayern defense last season (which you could argue was the best of the planet). He is in his mid 30, kind of slow and immobile but benefitet enourmously from the strong overall defensive system.
2. at top level the CB´s play the first ball in every attack. Doing that is accurate, consistant and as planned is one of the most important things in modern football. Look at Dortmund against Real first leg last season Real lost the game (in my opinion) because they lack a type ofo player like Badstuber, Pique or Hummels who can pass very accurate under pressure.
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On July 05 2013 02:48 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 01:45 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:38 UdderChaos wrote:On July 05 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:23 funkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:02 Zeo wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? It's always easier when you have referee's on your side though *cough* 2008 *cough* #shots fired I say that everyone that bitches about this some more, gets a 2 week ban from this thread. enough with the non sense. stfu. are you seriously saying you deserved to win vs Chelsea in 2008? lol Wasn't the controversial barca-Chelsea game in 2009 semi finals? yeah, sorry mixed that up Btw Guardiola calls Badstuber a super super player... Oh my god, has he never watched a single game of bayern or what? Badstuber missing this season is one of the reasons Bayern were so dominant. CBs dont need creativity or good passing, they just need to defend well. I dont want to offend you but you couldnt be more wrong. Defending is no longer the #1 priority for CB´s. Mainly for 2 reasons: 1. no one can defend Messi, Ronaldo, Ribery & co 1v1 anyway. When you get in situations were a high level player get 1v1 against a CB you are in huge trouble no matter who the defender is. That means someone who can "only" defend will never get a place at a top team because his main skill "defending" gets less important the higher the level of play is. An example for this: Daniel van Buyten. He was a big part of the Bayern defense last season (which you could argue was the best of the planet). He is in his mid 30, kind of slow and immobile but benefitet enourmously from the strong overall defensive system. 2. at top level the CB´s play the first ball in every attack. Doing that is accurate, consistant and as planned is one of the most important things in modern football. Look at Dortmund against Real first leg last season Real lost the game (in my opinion) because they lack a type ofo player like Badstuber, Pique or Hummels who can pass very accurate under pressure.
Who is more important to Barca/Spain: Pique or Puyol?
Who is more important to Spain: Pique or Ramos?
Who is more important to Bayern: Badstuber or Dante?
Who is more important to Brazil: David Luiz or Thiago Silva?
I could go on. Hummels is such a good defender because he can do BOTH. Badstuber is bad because he cant defend.
Defending is the #1 priority for CBs. None of your examples proved me even closely wrong.
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Weird argument going on here. Those teams are pro, they make huge money when they win and much smaller money when they lose. They just play to win, not to please anyone with 30 shots and 100 dribbles per game (though occasionally that's the right strategy for winning, see: Dortmund this season). As long as a strategy is legal according to the rules and brings the results, it's viable. Well, okay, it also has to fit well with the manpower qualities the team has, but that's a different story.
Also, regarding Barcelona:
+ Show Spoiler +
Seriously, he operates the ball on the same level, except that he additionaly has 50-yard inch-perfect long pass, second pair of eyes on his back and superpower that allows him to keep the ball glued to his feet forever (he won't abuse it for 90 minutes only because he is a good guy and wants his opponents to have a chance and the spectators an illusion of a close game).
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51479 Posts
15 pages in just over a week of thread being live, and the season isn't even in Pre Season yet xD
Going be a goooooooood season :D
MOAR PEOPLE COMING TO TL FOOTY THREAD HWAITING!!
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On July 05 2013 02:55 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2013 02:48 USvBleakill wrote:On July 05 2013 01:45 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:38 UdderChaos wrote:On July 05 2013 01:30 sharkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:23 funkie wrote:On July 05 2013 01:02 Zeo wrote:On July 05 2013 01:00 Steveling wrote:
But you couldn't even if you wanted to play like that, that's why this barca team is hailed as one of the best teams ever.
Noone else can do what they do.
If you find their style pleasing or not is irrelevant.
But any team can buckle up against a superior team and luck it out.
Can't you see the difference? It's always easier when you have referee's on your side though *cough* 2008 *cough* #shots fired I say that everyone that bitches about this some more, gets a 2 week ban from this thread. enough with the non sense. stfu. are you seriously saying you deserved to win vs Chelsea in 2008? lol Wasn't the controversial barca-Chelsea game in 2009 semi finals? yeah, sorry mixed that up Btw Guardiola calls Badstuber a super super player... Oh my god, has he never watched a single game of bayern or what? Badstuber missing this season is one of the reasons Bayern were so dominant. CBs dont need creativity or good passing, they just need to defend well. I dont want to offend you but you couldnt be more wrong. Defending is no longer the #1 priority for CB´s. Mainly for 2 reasons: 1. no one can defend Messi, Ronaldo, Ribery & co 1v1 anyway. When you get in situations were a high level player get 1v1 against a CB you are in huge trouble no matter who the defender is. That means someone who can "only" defend will never get a place at a top team because his main skill "defending" gets less important the higher the level of play is. An example for this: Daniel van Buyten. He was a big part of the Bayern defense last season (which you could argue was the best of the planet). He is in his mid 30, kind of slow and immobile but benefitet enourmously from the strong overall defensive system. 2. at top level the CB´s play the first ball in every attack. Doing that is accurate, consistant and as planned is one of the most important things in modern football. Look at Dortmund against Real first leg last season Real lost the game (in my opinion) because they lack a type ofo player like Badstuber, Pique or Hummels who can pass very accurate under pressure. Who is more important to Barca/Spain: Pique or Puyol? Who is more important to Spain: Pique or Ramos? Who is more important to Bayern: Badstuber or Dante? Who is more important to Brazil: David Luiz or Thiago Silva? I could go on. Hummels is such a good defender because he can do BOTH. Badstuber is bad because he cant defend. Defending is the #1 priority for CBs. None of your examples proved me even closely wrong.
He made some really good points that got me thinking. you on the other hand, i dont even understand what you're saying in this post lol
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.qkme.me/3v2jgy.jpg)
