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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
I would say Chelsea lost their group with the 2-2 draw at home to Juventus, no way should we have let a 2 goal lead slip at home, especially the way we did.
Also personally speaking i reckon if Rafa had us a 2 goal lead vs Juventus we would not of lost it...
And...10 points in a Champions League group and STILL not qualify, isn't all that bad, not like we got booted out without winning like City 
On the City thing, i do beleive there manager is VERY VERY niave in the Champions League, they really should of been pushing Real and Dortmund harder (especially at home). Of course take nothing away, both Real and Dortmund are fabulous teams, but i think they should of been giving them a lot more run for their money.
And there is one team that EVERYONE will want to draw in the next round....Celtic, quite easily, they are piss poor.
My Rankings go into Last 16;
Barca
Real Madrid
Dortmund
BayernMunchen
Man Utd
Juventus
Shakthar
PSG
Arsenal
Schalke 04
Porto
Valencia
Malaga
Milan (they are so poor this season)
Galatasaray
Celtic
Anyone else care to lise theirs?
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Barca
Bayern München
Borussia Dortmund
Real Madrid
ManU
Juventus
I don't know what to do with Schalke, Arsenal, PSG, Shakthar and Porto
Malaga
Milan
Valencia
Galatasary
Celtic
Anyway: Real < Bayern & Dortmund because Bayern have an improved team over last year (deeper on CB, defensive/offensive midfield and they got 3 good strikers now). Real has barly done anything teamwise and are bad in La Liga and Dortmund won head to head.
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On December 07 2012 01:41 Pandemona wrote:I would say Chelsea lost their group with the 2-2 draw at home to Juventus, no way should we have let a 2 goal lead slip at home, especially the way we did. Also personally speaking i reckon if Rafa had us a 2 goal lead vs Juventus we would not of lost it... And...10 points in a Champions League group and STILL not qualify, isn't all that bad, not like we got booted out without winning like City On the City thing, i do beleive there manager is VERY VERY niave in the Champions League, they really should of been pushing Real and Dortmund harder (especially at home). Of course take nothing away, both Real and Dortmund are fabulous teams, but i think they should of been giving them a lot more run for their money. And there is one team that EVERYONE will want to draw in the next round....Celtic, quite easily, they are piss poor. My Rankings go into Last 16; Barca Real Madrid Dortmund BayernMunchen Man Utd Juventus Shakthar PSG Arsenal Schalke 04 Porto Valencia Malaga Milan (they are so poor this season) Galatasaray Celtic Anyone else care to lise theirs?
Real Madrid
Barca
Bayern
Man U
Juve
Dortmund
Shalke
Shahktar
PSG
Malaga
Porto
Arsenal
Valencia
Milan
Celtic
Galatasaray
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for me the only contenters are: Man Utd, Barca and Bayern.
Real are off to a horrible start this year. Juve were made to look good in a serie A last year that was very poor. Dortmund are great but i dont think they have the experience (and were very poor in the CL last year).
The other teams really just dont have the quality for it
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51490 Posts
You fancy Jose this year Mr Rebs? :D fair play to you. I hope he does, cuz if he does it, he is OUTTA THERE.
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Real Madrid / FC Barcelona
Juventus Turin
Bayern
Manchester United
Borussia Dortmund
Shahktar
Porto
Schalke 04
Arsenal
PSG
Malaga
Valencia
Galatasaray
Milan
Celtic
I dont know, I just see Juve very high. And Mourinho is really good in knockout stages.
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On December 07 2012 03:01 Pandemona wrote:
You fancy Jose this year Mr Rebs? :D fair play to you. I hope he does, cuz if he does it, he is OUTTA THERE.
Mou is good at knockout football.
Real isnt playing as badly as their league position suggests either.
They are absurdly good right now. Watch them at the very least give Barca a massive scare in the coming months in the league aswell.
Personally I am no fan of the way they are playing right now, but its absurdly dangerous and with the attacking players he has its really really affective. Any team that can break like real and create space the way they do with individuals is going to be dangerous.
I think even if he doesnt win he will leave.
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Bayern
Real Madrid
Barcelona
Dortmund
Juventus
Man U
PSG
Shakhtar
Porto
Malaga
Schalke
Arsenal
Valencia
Milan
Galatasaray
Celtic
I don't think Barca has the tactical chops for dominant cup play this season, they are built for league play.
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I feel inside that Galatasaray will get to the ro8.
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On December 07 2012 03:12 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 03:01 Pandemona wrote:
You fancy Jose this year Mr Rebs? :D fair play to you. I hope he does, cuz if he does it, he is OUTTA THERE. Mou is good at knockout football. Real isnt playing as badly as their league position suggests either. They are absurdly good right now. Watch them at the very least give Barca a massive scare in the coming months in the league aswell. Personally I am no fan of the way they are playing right now, but its absurdly dangerous and with the attacking players he has its really really affective. Any team that can break like real and create space the way they do with individuals is going to be dangerous. I think even if he doesnt win he will leave.
Real is not playing bad per se but really weaker than last year, plus they have absolutely no playstyle when their stars don't unlock games early: long balls and counter-attacking (which results in losing points against teams that don't go crazy offensive) feels more like small team tactics...
Mou is probably the best coach when it comes to motivating players to reach a certain goal on a short-term (Inter to win a CL, Real to finally win la Liga after Barca's domination, etc...) but he is really 'bad' (comparing to the very best) when it comes to tactics. This is the reason why, despite all this improvement over the last years, Madrid has never won an eliminatory against a very-top team.
As a Barca fan I might be biased but my list would be:
Barcelona
Juventus - ManU - Bayern - Dortmund (they all are pretty good but they also show some small weaknesses)
Real Madrid
Shaktar - Porto - Arsenal
Malaga - PSG - Schalke - Milan
Galatasaray - Celtic - Valencia
Also, as a PSG follower, I don't understand why people would rate them above team with real european past as Arsenal, Porto or even this weaker version of Milan. Stacking stars cannot give result in such a short period.
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On December 10 2012 03:50 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 03:12 Rebs wrote:On December 07 2012 03:01 Pandemona wrote:
You fancy Jose this year Mr Rebs? :D fair play to you. I hope he does, cuz if he does it, he is OUTTA THERE. Mou is good at knockout football. Real isnt playing as badly as their league position suggests either. They are absurdly good right now. Watch them at the very least give Barca a massive scare in the coming months in the league aswell. Personally I am no fan of the way they are playing right now, but its absurdly dangerous and with the attacking players he has its really really affective. Any team that can break like real and create space the way they do with individuals is going to be dangerous. I think even if he doesnt win he will leave. Real is not playing bad per se but really weaker than last year, plus they have absolutely no playstyle when their stars don't unlock games early: long balls and counter-attacking (which results in losing points against teams that don't go crazy offensive) feels more like small team tactics... Mou is probably the best coach when it comes to motivating players to reach a certain goal on a short-term (Inter to win a CL, Real to finally win la Liga after Barca's domination, etc...) but he is really 'bad' (comparing to the very best) when it comes to tactics. This is the reason why, despite all this improvement over the last years, Madrid has never won an eliminatory against a very-top team. As a Barca fan I might be biased but my list would be: Barcelona Juventus - ManU - Bayern - Dortmund (they all are pretty good but they also show some small weaknesses) Real Madrid Shaktar - Porto - Arsenal Malaga - PSG - Schalke - Milan Galatasaray - Celtic - Valencia Also, as a PSG follower, I don't understand why people would rate them above team with real european past as Arsenal, Porto or even this weaker version of Milan. Stacking stars cannot give result in such a short period.
I dont think Mou's tactics are anything genius either, infact they are stale and pretty straightforward. But they are usually incredibly pragmatic and yes they do tend to go stale if their stars dont unlock games. Heres the thing, they nearly always do. No team is prefect.
And yeah sure they were going to suffer in the league because teams would start respecting them this season the way they do Barca, but alot of them dont.
And between Barca bashing their heads and Real doing the same against a wall of 10 outside the 24 Real atleast to me has a greater variety of weapons and options that they can effectively employ.
Most importantly hes a good enough coach to make his teams execute. And hes alot more flexible than you might think. Alot more than other coaches. I dont think he brings anything new to the table tactically but then setting his teams up to play the way they need to and the actually drilling it in them to do it requires atleast some kind of managerial talent.
Their stars do unlock games, a few time nearly every game. I dont know if youve seen the points theyve dropped but theyve looked really really good every time, a few times theyve been pretty unlucky and other times they just go jipped.
It happened to Barca last year aswell so whatever. But I dont see the dropped points as a massive reflection.
United I personally think is a pretty average team and they are running away in their league. That is no reflection for me.
They have everyone on their team beat players anywhere in the park and that will create space for everyone else and they do it pretty easy.
Real Madrid not winning a knockout tie against a top team unfortunately has little to do with Mourinho. As much as I dislike him he has a pretty good record in knockout football.
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On December 10 2012 05:46 Rebs wrote:
Real Madrid not winning a knockout tie against a top team unfortunately has little to do with Mourinho. As much as I dislike him he has a pretty good record in knockout football.
When you don't have a plan for a game you tend to not control it and lose it in the end. When you play against average La Liga teams, having CR and the others is most of the time enough because you capitalize on the mistakes of the opponent and this opponent usually doesn't have the quality to score the few opportunities he has...
And when you face teams of the cailber of Barcelona, Bayern or Dortmund it doesn't work anymore. I have yet to see a game where Real Madrid controls a game this year, even against a low tier La Liga team. Yesterday Valladolid almost made them lose more points but they kept attacking against the specialist of counter attacking... Last year, Real would have scored 5 goals.
Sure when you have the players Real Madrid has you can win any team, but in an eliminatory with 2 games like in CL it's another story. If they don't get their last year level back, I don't see them go further than Quarters final.
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On December 10 2012 06:01 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 05:46 Rebs wrote:
Real Madrid not winning a knockout tie against a top team unfortunately has little to do with Mourinho. As much as I dislike him he has a pretty good record in knockout football. When you don't have a plan for a game you tend to not control it and lose it in the end. When you play against average La Liga teams, having CR and the others is most of the time enough because you capitalize on the mistakes of the opponent and this opponent usually doesn't have the quality to score the few opportunities he has... And when you face teams of the cailber of Barcelona, Bayern or Dortmund it doesn't work anymore. I have yet to see a game where Real Madrid controls a game this year, even against a low tier La Liga team. Yesterday Valladolid almost made them lose more points but they kept attacking against the specialist of counter attacking... Last year, Real would have scored 5 goals. Sure when you have the players Real Madrid has you can win any team, but in an eliminatory with 2 games like in CL it's another story. If they don't get their last year level back, I don't see them go further than Quarters final.
they have controlled quite a lot of their last vs barca games, real are improving - they just had bad luck this year like barca did last year
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Just give me an an example against Barca? I don't remember one. Supercup in Madrid, they 'controlled' the 30 first minutes where Barcelona was disastrous and then they were totally dominated 11 vs 10. In Barcelona, they did nothing. The two last La Liga games in the New Camp were even, with Real Madrid playing passive and counter attacking with a lot of success... Nowhere near 'controlled' games.
Anyway, no one expects any team to control a game against Barcelona, but when you don't even do it against Betis or Valladolid and you're full of stars, well... It's not like Mourinho hasn't had several years to build a game plan...
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you dont need to own majority of possession to control a game
when barca is passing the ball in the back around like robots not knowing what to do out of fear of counter/pressing I call that controlling the game
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I agree with your definition and I still believe that in these games Madrid were not in control.
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On December 10 2012 06:19 sharkie wrote:
you dont need to own majority of possession to control a game
when barca is passing the ball in the back around like robots not knowing what to do out of fear of counter/pressing I call that controlling the game
Actually they very rarely control the game, and I dont think the passing around like robots thing is accurate either. They play 1 of every 4 or 5 posessions out of the back and morons hop on it thinking it is passing around back and forth
Being a pussy and sitting back to counter attack (and give me a fucking break they press for a grand total of 20 mins a game) isnt controlling the game.
Sure its effective because Barca is just as rigid in their playstyle and will probably get hit (think Pacquiao vs Marquez), but its not controlling the game. You do need posession to control a game after all.
When you score its not because you didnt have the ball. Its because you have it. Just saying..
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Norway28674 Posts
in the last 5 classicos real has been the better team.
I don't care for rating all the teams but I gotta have real as a narrow 1st spot favourite over barca, with dortmund bayern and united following (a bit behind) in the next three spots. I don't think anyone else has any type of reasonable chance. united is basically there cuz of ferguson alone.
let's call it
27% real
24% barca
15% bayern
12% dortmund
12% united
10% everyone else combined
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On December 10 2012 15:37 Liquid`Drone wrote:
in the last 5 classicos real has been the better team.
I don't care for rating all the teams but I gotta have real as a narrow 1st spot favourite over barca, with dortmund bayern and united following (a bit behind) in the next three spots. I don't think anyone else has any type of reasonable chance. united is basically there cuz of ferguson alone.
let's call it
27% real
24% barca
15% bayern
12% dortmund
12% united
10% everyone else combined
I'd second you on the Real vs Barcelona situation, but I think Barca has better chances vs. the other teams than Real (for example, Dortmund). So it depends a lot on whether and when they meet.
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Being a Man Utd fan, i'm cheering them on all the way. But still, I'm excited to see if Celtic can progress even further.
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EPT
