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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On November 08 2012 20:19 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 09:09 Denzil wrote:
Yes nobody is saying Barcelona are awful to watch Barca isn't entertaining to watch. Nice seeing Celtic do well. Sad to see Shakhtar lose to Chelsea, I'm hoping Chelsea drops out at the group stage ^^ Less Premier League and La Liga this time for the yay's, more different kinds of teams and shit. Malaga can do well, because it's my favourite Spanish team.
It's cool to be hip, isn't it? lol
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51479 Posts
Found this out today;
The final will be played at Wembley Stadium in London, England. This is in recognition of 150 years since the formation of the English Football Association, the world's oldest football association.
Makes sense i guess xD. Happy Birthday FA!!
Also forget my previous posts on this, but, mathematically![[image loading]](http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/teams/logos/32x32/52682.png) Man Utd
![[image loading]](http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/teams/logos/32x32/74069.png) Malaga
![[image loading]](http://img.uefa.com/imgml/TP/teams/logos/32x32/50064.png) FC portoAre the first teams through to the knock out stages, congratulations
Tables Updated!! Please ignore some of the fail Wiki highlighting on teams, ONLY stated above eams are through
Right, also TL'ers, can someone explain how in Group E, Chelsea are below Shakthar?
Goal Difference; Chelsea have more
Head to head record it is even in goals; 3+1che vs 2+2shak
So i was lead to beleive it goes; Points > Head to Head > Goal Difference > Then made to have tie breaker.
So how come with points, head to head being the same, but chelsea having a great goal difference (overall) we are 2nd :S
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On November 08 2012 21:53 Pandemona wrote:Found this out today; The final will be played at Wembley Stadium in London, England. This is in recognition of 150 years since the formation of the English Football Association, the world's oldest football association.Makes sense i guess xD. Happy Birthday FA!! Also forget my previous posts on this, but, mathematicallyMan UtdAre the first team through to the knock out stages, congratulations Tables Updated!! Please ignore some of the fail Wiki highlighting on teams, ONLY Man Utd as stated abvoe are throughRight, also TL'ers, can someone explain how in Group E, Chelsea are below Shakthar? Goal Difference; Chelsea have more Head to head record it is even in goals; 3+1che vs 2+2shak So i was lead to beleive it goes; Points > Head to Head > Goal Difference > Then made to have tie breaker. So how come with points, head to head being the same, but chelsea having a great goal difference (overall) we are 2nd :S
Shakthar scored 2 away goals, chelsea only 1, that's why Chelsea "lost" the Head to Head. And should you ask: Home goals do not count here 
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51432 Posts
Porto and Malaga have also secured qualification into the Ro16.
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On November 08 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 20:19 HwangjaeTerran wrote:On November 08 2012 09:09 Denzil wrote:
Yes nobody is saying Barcelona are awful to watch Barca isn't entertaining to watch. Nice seeing Celtic do well. Sad to see Shakhtar lose to Chelsea, I'm hoping Chelsea drops out at the group stage ^^ Less Premier League and La Liga this time for the yay's, more different kinds of teams and shit. Malaga can do well, because it's my favourite Spanish team. It's cool to be hip, isn't it? lol
That's the response I got the last two times I said that on TL.
Honestly, the last time they were fun to watch was around 06-07. I even like Real Madrid games more these days, and Reals got all the most annoying players even. Why is it not okay to criticize Tiki-Taka for what it is.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51479 Posts
On November 08 2012 22:15 GTR wrote:
Porto and Malaga have also secured qualification into the Ro16.
Ah right yeah i see now. Fixtures...xD PSG vs Dynami Kiev means only one team can get above 10 points.
Malaga situation the same 
On November 08 2012 22:11 Rojam wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 21:53 Pandemona wrote:Found this out today; The final will be played at Wembley Stadium in London, England. This is in recognition of 150 years since the formation of the English Football Association, the world's oldest football association.Makes sense i guess xD. Happy Birthday FA!! Also forget my previous posts on this, but, mathematicallyMan UtdAre the first team through to the knock out stages, congratulations Tables Updated!! Please ignore some of the fail Wiki highlighting on teams, ONLY Man Utd as stated abvoe are throughRight, also TL'ers, can someone explain how in Group E, Chelsea are below Shakthar? Goal Difference; Chelsea have more Head to head record it is even in goals; 3+1che vs 2+2shak So i was lead to beleive it goes; Points > Head to Head > Goal Difference > Then made to have tie breaker. So how come with points, head to head being the same, but chelsea having a great goal difference (overall) we are 2nd :S Shakthar scored 2 away goals, chelsea only 1, that's why Chelsea "lost" the Head to Head. And should you ask: Home goals do not count here
So it goes.
Points > Head to Head > Head to Head Goal Diffo (away goals only?) > Tie Breaker Game?
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On November 08 2012 22:59 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 22:15 GTR wrote:
Porto and Malaga have also secured qualification into the Ro16. Ah right yeah i see now. Fixtures...xD PSG vs Dynami Kiev means only one team can get above 10 points. Malaga situation the same Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 22:11 Rojam wrote:On November 08 2012 21:53 Pandemona wrote:Found this out today; The final will be played at Wembley Stadium in London, England. This is in recognition of 150 years since the formation of the English Football Association, the world's oldest football association.Makes sense i guess xD. Happy Birthday FA!! Also forget my previous posts on this, but, mathematicallyMan UtdAre the first team through to the knock out stages, congratulations Tables Updated!! Please ignore some of the fail Wiki highlighting on teams, ONLY Man Utd as stated abvoe are throughRight, also TL'ers, can someone explain how in Group E, Chelsea are below Shakthar? Goal Difference; Chelsea have more Head to head record it is even in goals; 3+1che vs 2+2shak So i was lead to beleive it goes; Points > Head to Head > Goal Difference > Then made to have tie breaker. So how come with points, head to head being the same, but chelsea having a great goal difference (overall) we are 2nd :S Shakthar scored 2 away goals, chelsea only 1, that's why Chelsea "lost" the Head to Head. And should you ask: Home goals do not count here So it goes. Points > Head to Head > Head to Head Goal Diffo (away goals only?) > Tie Breaker Game?
Points > Head to Head > Head to Head Away Goals > now either overall Goals scored or overall Goal Difference, I'm not sure which order > Tie Breaker Game
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There is no Tie-Breaker game, in the end the clubs UEFA ranking decides, the higher ranked team advances.
Check 7.06 in the UEFA PDF
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doesnt some competition even have throw a coin to decide group places? :p
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aYFRj.jpg)
rofl, football is strange sometimes
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On November 08 2012 23:23 clusen wrote:There is no Tie-Breaker game, in the end the clubs UEFA ranking decides, the higher ranked team advances. Check 7.06 in the UEFA PDF
Yeah you're right, something was fishy with the tie breaker
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On November 08 2012 23:36 mememolly wrote:rofl, football is strange sometimes
Wow, only watched the Munich-Lille match... 89% posession, 23 attempts? And I thought only german teams can f*** up so bad :D
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On November 08 2012 22:17 HwangjaeTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 21:35 Telcontar wrote:On November 08 2012 20:19 HwangjaeTerran wrote:On November 08 2012 09:09 Denzil wrote:
Yes nobody is saying Barcelona are awful to watch Barca isn't entertaining to watch. Nice seeing Celtic do well. Sad to see Shakhtar lose to Chelsea, I'm hoping Chelsea drops out at the group stage ^^ Less Premier League and La Liga this time for the yay's, more different kinds of teams and shit. Malaga can do well, because it's my favourite Spanish team. It's cool to be hip, isn't it? lol That's the response I got the last two times I said that on TL. Honestly, the last time they were fun to watch was around 06-07. I even like Real Madrid games more these days, and Reals got all the most annoying players even. Why is it not okay to criticize Tiki-Taka for what it is.
There is nothing fundamentally boring about tiki taka or whatever it is you like to call what Barcelona do.
Fact of the matter is it is so overwhelmingly affective against teams with weaker defensive and technical ability that theyre
only method of trying to scrape something out is cramming their ends of the pitch with as many bodies as they can.
Now we all know that, and thats fine. What makes little sense is to then go and put the blame on the team that regularly scores goals for fun unless the opponents shuts up shop. The fallacy is ridiculous sometimes. Its them " they keep the ball too much". Well usually they score alot of goals and cut teams to ribbons. When do you ever see a Celtic or a Rubin Kazan do that ?
Its plenty entertaining if both teams try to play. Which you regularly get to see in liga. Only problem is teams trying to do it
get hammered.
Theres nothing wrong with not liking a team but suggesting that the game is a snoozefest because one team keeps the ball
better than the other and regularly creates chances doing it is rather silly.
And someone mentioned this already in part and its true, this stuff about Barcelona tiring teams out has little to do with
physical fatigue. Its half a pitch you have to chase them around. Most professionals athletes are more than equipped.
Its getting mentally drained that is the problem because the spectator isnt the only when getting bored, chasing the ball
around is more draining mentally and so you have to remain highly focused, they are professional footballers after all. For that you can give the team that is defensive exceptional credit.
Barcelona losing was a fairish result, hell if they had lost the last round to Celtic that probably would have been one aswell.
That time they pulled a rabbit out somewhat. This time they had more chances and actually fluffed the ones they did so
they have no one else to blame. Not celtics tactics or bad luck, they didnt take their chances. And every so often that will happen.
Does Barca "struggle" to win games like these. I dont think they really struggle against anything. Its relatively more difficult because they do drop a few games here and there to teams who play like that but "struggle" would suggest they lost more often than they win against teams that park the bus, this is also not true. Its just that when they lose, its a bigger deal.
If your going to put the regular snorefest on tiki taka then its just a very bad excuse to justify your dislike of the style.+ Show Spoiler +(which is literally the goal of every team out there playing football frankly head into any kids camp these days and its the first thing theyll teach you. Head up.. pass. fundamental if you can do that as a kid theyre already treating you like gold these days.)
There is no guarantee that 1 ball direct football would work when the shop is shut. Absolutely none, even less so against a team from the Island. It would make much fewer chances than than Barca did yesterday. And teams doing it would look exceptionally sloppy.
Very few teams actually have the ability to play both a high level of direct football and a good passing style. United is probably the best example. They might not be the best passers in the middle of the park but in the final third they are killer, and its not just the whipped in cross. They can pull of really good triangles and 1-2s to create space. That is also why United is one of the best "league" teams in the world.
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And what would that learning entail ? Pray tell.
If Messi doesnt hit the bar or Sanchez doesnt get his bearing wrong on the header Barcelona wins that game.
Its just a failure to execute as far as Im concerned. And no ones perfect. Its the nature of competition to not play well enough to win sometimes. I think they understand better than bandwagon critics, so it probably doesnt bother them to much.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51479 Posts
In answer to what they need to do vs these teams, is cross the ball. They have no one who crosses the ball due to having no one being able to head the ball in the box (unless Villa is playing) which seems to be very little >.<
When they had Ibra they still didn't cross the ball >.< They cannot physically play through every team they play against, they have to learn to get in behind them with crosses, change there attack up not just try and play straight through teams every time.
Also i doubt we would be having this conversation if Barca actually invested in some Defenders >.< mainly centre backs to cover Puyol....
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On November 09 2012 01:01 Pandemona wrote:
In answer to what they need to do vs these teams, is cross the ball. They have no one who crosses the ball due to having no one being able to head the ball in the box (unless Villa is playing) which seems to be very little >.<
When they had Ibra they still didn't cross the ball >.< They cannot physically play through every team they play against, they have to learn to get in behind them with crosses, change there attack up not just try and play straight through teams every time.
Also i doubt we would be having this conversation if Barca actually invested in some Defenders >.< mainly centre backs to cover Puyol....
Crossing the ball isnt an answer, its a weak desperation time alternative. And I already explained why. Lets ignore that they suck at getting on the end of croess. Even then it isnt a solution.The bodies are still in there and they are all more than capable of heading the ball. More often better than even the top teams. Now if your suggesting that they just chuck it in there and pray.. well.
Now you could point to the isolated incident last time around where they did sneak the win off a crossed ball. But that is an exception rather than the norm and frankly it was quite fortunate.
I already explained why that is a lower percentage method and less likely to create chances against teams that cram the box (For Barca atleast). Lets not forget, everyones talking like they never got a sniff at goal. They had legitimate goal scoring chances. Maybe less than they are accustomed to. But the failure again was in execution and efficiency. Not style.
teams are more than happy to have Barca lobbing crosses in all day. Not so much when they are passing and moving around in the final third, like one of those annoying teacup rides.
It would be great if Barca could be efficient in the air aswell but then people would still find something to criticize. And they dont need to be good in the air because then the games they do lose they probably wouldnt. And thats not fun for anyone.
As for defenders. Yea thats really stupid. Whatever way you slice it Alex Song or Busquets or even Mascherano are not central defendars.
Also we would still be having this conversation because everytime Barcelona loses to a team that parks the bus its like the heavens fell on them. All teams lose :s. I dont know about you but thats the best way to play against any team better than you. It just so happens that it happens to Barca the most because they are that much better in a more open game.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51479 Posts
Yeah im only my 2cents into this debate thing because i think Barca need to add in to their play more crossing. I mean i know like you said they probably wont score from crosses and no reason why they can't just do what they do now and win games, they will plain and simple beat teams better than Celtic 5/6-0 before the seasons done.
But what im saying is, if they go into games knowing they can pass the ball out wide, let Messi/Sanchez/Pedro (whoever) take on the wing back and cross the ball it eliminates that 1 defender from the box and makes teams think, wait we cant just play a narrow back 4 with a midfield 4 in front of them, we have to think about pushing out wide and stopping crosses to.
I remember the final of 09? Man Utd vs Barca (should of been utd vs chelsea again but chelsea got robbed ) and Messi scored a header vs Man Utd from a cross...the smallest player on the pitch bar no one scored a header due to the cross that came in was sheer class.
Im not saying that have to cross the ball in x amount of times per game, but what i would like them to do, to stop them from just letting teams play a FLAT back 8 vs them, is to get the ball out wide, take the full backs/wing backs on and get a cross in there, it just puts it into the defenders mind, wait i gotta stop a cross as well as look at messi etcetc and stop them passing through me. Tires teams down as well.
Thats what i would be keen to stamp onto the Barca team if i was their manager ^_^
ps. even Spain the masters of passing, cross the ball as well.
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Well in that case they do that quite often. But the team thats defending isnt stupid. They dont trail of after the guy on the flank. They know he has to come in eventually so they just stay compact. Its great that you can go out wide to draw a defender but most defenders are pretty competent 1v1 if they just have to show the opponent outside. Drawing 1 player out of 8 to the edge of the box at best doesnt really create much space.
I get your point but disciplined teams dont bite. Celtic werent biting yesterday atleast, everytime the ball went out to the flank.
So .. what do you do ? You take a few ricochets some deflected crosses that amounted to nothing and you go back to passing it back and forth because thats obviously something you are more effective with.
Even with the shooting critique. They take plenty of pointless of shots that are poor percentage. All the time, but its mostly a last resort on a play where they arent making any headway.
I genuinely believe people dont watch the games often when they say things. Which is even more stupid. They did try to cross the ball.. a fair bit. It was just mind numbingly useless.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51479 Posts
I guess they do try, but against Chelsea they didn't last season, all the commentators in England were screaming for them to try and get the ball out wide and try a different method as Chelsea's back 8 were doing fine XD
But i get your point too, and agree with it.
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EPT
