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Norway28806 Posts
On November 08 2012 07:07 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 07:05 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I thought celtic played great. they had good passing, they were attacking a lot Come on, if having 3 shots in total in the game is attacking a lot, we're not talking about the same sport... They just took more risks in the last 30mn, meaning that instead of having 2 players involved in the counter attacks they had 3...
ok
*trying to attack a lot.
at least that's what I saw. granted I didn't watch the first 25 minutes but especially in the second half, I thought celtic was more dangerous until the 85th minute.
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On November 08 2012 07:00 WillyWanker wrote:
Oh I appreciate in a way, but football is also about entertaining and this is supposed to be the show between the best teams of Europe. To win like that against Barcelona you need to face them on their bad day, have a goalkeeper playing the game of his life, have luck (2 shots on the post) and be a killer on your few attempts. It worked today, it's nice for Celtic, their public is amazing and I always prefer to see this kind of team winning against my team than to see a multi millionaire team like Chelsea play this way.
You can't take away the fact that playing like Celtic is so much easier than to try and play with more creativity.
so any team that is defending is not playing football?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
MOSES!! You messiah :3
Winner in the last kick of the game, to help us ease our troubles in qualification. Might not got through top, but we can defo go threw now with a point in Turin and a win vs Norderslland at home.
Also, fucking EVERYONE can see, David Luiz at this moment in time cannot defend properly, and fully concentrated for 90 minutes, if he doesn't get dropped soon, Chelsea will become just as weak at the back as Barca....and we have no Messi to save our ass >.<
Wake up DiMatteo!!
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On November 08 2012 07:28 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 07:00 WillyWanker wrote:
Oh I appreciate in a way, but football is also about entertaining and this is supposed to be the show between the best teams of Europe. To win like that against Barcelona you need to face them on their bad day, have a goalkeeper playing the game of his life, have luck (2 shots on the post) and be a killer on your few attempts. It worked today, it's nice for Celtic, their public is amazing and I always prefer to see this kind of team winning against my team than to see a multi millionaire team like Chelsea play this way.
You can't take away the fact that playing like Celtic is so much easier than to try and play with more creativity. so any team that is defending is not playing football?
Where did I say that?
I said Celtic played like a lesser team, not a Champions League 'worthy' team. However I'm not saying they are terrible people or anything, they played the best strategy to counter Barcelona on these 2 games, it's just not entertaining if you are a neutral spectator. Football is a sport, but over the time it became a spectacle, and the tournaments, rules, etc... were changed to make sure that the team provided more spectacle. For example the 3 points victory or the fact that the GK can't take the ball with his hands if the ball was sent with the foot.
All of this to say, when you're watching a football game you expect a 'show', so seeing a team putting 9 guys in their own penalty area isn't quite exciting. If you are a supporter of one of the two team, sure, you got excitement because you're either hoping to see your dominating team break through, or to see your lesser team stand up to the giant; but if you're neutral this is just boring.
Additionally, I think anyone has his opinion on how football should be played. And I personally think that a team that plays to score goals requires a lot more work than one that only seeks to destroy the opponents' game.
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I never said easy... I said its much more complicated to try and develop an offensive game style than putting 10 guys behind. Most of the teams that play defensive for the whole season are in the bottom of their league. Its the easiest tactic to achieve less negative results because the risks are minimized.
To defend against Barcelona is never an easy task but if we played 100 times the game of tonight I think we would have at least 80 victories of Barcelona and maybe 5 wins for Celtic. You need the stars to be lined up in order to beat Barca playing like this, just look at Chelsea last year which has a lot more individually skilled players than Celtic...
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On November 08 2012 08:13 WillyWanker wrote:
I never said easy... I said its much more complicated to try and develop an offensive game style than putting 10 guys behind. Most of the teams that play defensive for the whole season are in the bottom of their league. Its the easiest tactic to achieve less negative results because the risks are minimized.
To defend against Barcelona is never an easy task but if we played 100 times the game of tonight I think we would have at least 80 victories of Barcelona and maybe 5 wins for Celtic. You need the stars to be lined up in order to beat Barca playing like this, just look at Chelsea last year which has a lot more individually skilled players than Celtic...
so each time barca lose to a team not called Real the starts were aligned correctly?
wow the stars must move a lot
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Shakhtar Donetsk is so much fun to watch and their style of football is very entertaining. This team would be a top contender in anyone of the big leagues in europe, and i hope they get to the next round of CL.
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On November 08 2012 08:16 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:13 WillyWanker wrote:
I never said easy... I said its much more complicated to try and develop an offensive game style than putting 10 guys behind. Most of the teams that play defensive for the whole season are in the bottom of their league. Its the easiest tactic to achieve less negative results because the risks are minimized.
To defend against Barcelona is never an easy task but if we played 100 times the game of tonight I think we would have at least 80 victories of Barcelona and maybe 5 wins for Celtic. You need the stars to be lined up in order to beat Barca playing like this, just look at Chelsea last year which has a lot more individually skilled players than Celtic... so each time barca lose to a team not called Real the starts were aligned correctly? wow the stars must move a lot
Considering that they only lost 2 or 3 games last year that were not against Real, yes.
This year they played 18 games or something like that, they lost 2, tonight and against Real. Out of these 18 games (or so) at least 10 were against this kind of defensive tactic... When teams start trying to score goals they get stomped hard.
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Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams,
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On November 08 2012 08:26 Denzil wrote:
Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams,
Every team would have this problem :p
Shooting through 16 legs and a 1.90m high GK has never been easy
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On November 08 2012 08:29 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:26 Denzil wrote:
Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams, Every team would have this problem :p Shooting through 16 legs and a 1.90m high GK has never been easy
it's almost as if you're implying they never come out of their half
therefore you don't let them score on the 3 chances they get in 90 minutes.
it's not difficult really
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On November 08 2012 08:30 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:29 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:26 Denzil wrote:
Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams, Every team would have this problem :p Shooting through 16 legs and a 1.90m high GK has never been easy it's almost as if you're implying they never come out of their half therefore you don't let them score on the 3 chances they get in 90 minutes. it's not difficult really
8 players never come out of their half, its true! Not every team Barcelona faces manage to score 2 goals in 3 attemps, thats why Barcelona wins a lot more than they lose you know... When your strikers are not efficient enough, the risk is that you are going to suffer a lot in defense...
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On November 08 2012 08:35 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:30 Denzil wrote:On November 08 2012 08:29 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:26 Denzil wrote:
Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams, Every team would have this problem :p Shooting through 16 legs and a 1.90m high GK has never been easy it's almost as if you're implying they never come out of their half therefore you don't let them score on the 3 chances they get in 90 minutes. it's not difficult really 8 players never come out of their half, its true! Not every team Barcelona faces manage to score 2 goals in 3 attemps, thats why Barcelona wins a lot more than they lose you know... When your strikers are not efficient enough, the risk is that you are going to suffer a lot in defense...
happens too consistently against them from a club like chelsea for you to play it off as luck
barcalona and their fans seem too wrapped up in playing the beautiful game and everyone who doesn't shames football and whatnot. Barca have a problem dealing with a simple route 1 ball and thats been obvious from the many times chelsea alone have given them trouble it's a shame they don't sort it out really, i can't tell if they feel they're too "above" sorting that out or they're content knowing they'll never really face the tactic anywhere but the champions league
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On November 08 2012 08:41 Denzil wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:35 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:30 Denzil wrote:On November 08 2012 08:29 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:26 Denzil wrote:
Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams, Every team would have this problem :p Shooting through 16 legs and a 1.90m high GK has never been easy it's almost as if you're implying they never come out of their half therefore you don't let them score on the 3 chances they get in 90 minutes. it's not difficult really 8 players never come out of their half, its true! Not every team Barcelona faces manage to score 2 goals in 3 attemps, thats why Barcelona wins a lot more than they lose you know... When your strikers are not efficient enough, the risk is that you are going to suffer a lot in defense... happens too consistently against them from a club like chelsea for you to play it off as luck barcalona and their fans seem too wrapped up in playing the beautiful game and everyone who doesn't shames football and whatnot. Barca have a problem dealing with a simple route 1 ball and thats been obvious from the many times chelsea alone have given them trouble it's a shame they don't sort it out really
I have absolutely no problem admitting that there are others ways to play football than what Barcelona does... Chelsea played it good but they also had 'luck', if you can call it like that, to play against a physically weak team, having a GK that played his 2 best games of the year, scoring 3 goals in 3 attemps in 2 games, having Messi miss a penalty etc... You gotta admit that to win against Bcn playing this way you'll need a shit ton of conditions going your way...
They are having trouble against turtle strat because they have to deal with that every week and its really exhausting to try and penetrate these kind of defenses.. You play 50 games a year where every team you play is playing the game of the year with 200% determination and physical impact.. They're humans not machines, look at the number of injured in Barcelona's team, its not a coincidence...
They're still, in my opinion, BY FAR the best football producing team.
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To win more consistently against this defensive tactic, I believe you need to be strong in both offensive and defensive free kicks and corner, which is really not barcelona's specialty... Trying to play every free kick and corner like traditional team isnt part of the club philosophy, and if they tried i think they would lose control of the games which is their most important strength.
No strategy can be perfect, you gotta make choices and have the least weaknesses possible but you cant expect to do EVERYTHING right..
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On November 08 2012 08:49 WillyWanker wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:41 Denzil wrote:On November 08 2012 08:35 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:30 Denzil wrote:On November 08 2012 08:29 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:26 Denzil wrote:
Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams, Every team would have this problem :p Shooting through 16 legs and a 1.90m high GK has never been easy it's almost as if you're implying they never come out of their half therefore you don't let them score on the 3 chances they get in 90 minutes. it's not difficult really 8 players never come out of their half, its true! Not every team Barcelona faces manage to score 2 goals in 3 attemps, thats why Barcelona wins a lot more than they lose you know... When your strikers are not efficient enough, the risk is that you are going to suffer a lot in defense... happens too consistently against them from a club like chelsea for you to play it off as luck barcalona and their fans seem too wrapped up in playing the beautiful game and everyone who doesn't shames football and whatnot. Barca have a problem dealing with a simple route 1 ball and thats been obvious from the many times chelsea alone have given them trouble it's a shame they don't sort it out really I have absolutely no problem admitting that there are others ways to play football than what Barcelona does... Chelsea played it good but they also had 'luck', if you can call it like that, to play against a physically weak team, having a GK that played his 2 best games of the year, scoring 3 goals in 3 attemps in 2 games, having Messi miss a penalty etc... You gotta admit that to win against Bcn playing this way you'll need a shit ton of conditions going your way... They are having trouble against turtle strat because they have to deal with that every week and its really exhausting to try and penetrate these kind of defenses.. You play 50 games a year where every team you play is playing the game of the year with 200% determination and physical impact.. They're humans not machines, look at the number of injured in Barcelona's team, its not a coincidence... They're still, in my opinion, BY FAR the best football producing team.
why is it exhausting, I keep getting told its exhausting for defensive teams to do that, barca/spain are the "lucky ones" just waiting for the enemy to lose their energy
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United Kingdom1483 Posts
this discussion occurs literally every time barcelona has an interesting match
literally every fucking time
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
As a Barca fan, I enjoyed the game. I actually have fun watching a good defence shut the other team out - yes, even Barca. That's probably because I was grew up watching the 90s Arsenal and their rock solid back-line. Celtic defended brilliantly and were clinical when chances came their way, much like Chelsea were last year against the same opposition. As I've said countless times before (always when Barca lose like this), if there's an optimal way to beat a team, why the heck wouldn't you use it? To be "entertaining"? Fuck that. Your job, as players and coaches, is not to please the neutrals and the football purists; It's to be victorious. That's all that should matter. Celtic played with a legit tactic, and they won. Congrats to them.
As for Barca still not figuring out how to beat teams that deploy this strategy, I'm not sure they ever will. After Guardiola bought Ibra to try alternative ways of breaking through a stubborn defence, Barca seem to have stopped trying altogether. Maybe Tito will pick up where he left off, but I'd be very surprised if it actually took. In my humble opinion, I think Barca need more flair players on the wing. Their current flank options of Pedro, Sanchez, Villa, Alba, and Alves/Montoya, while very good - and capable of scoring/creating goals, doesn't really have anyone with the ability to magically create something from absolutely nothing. This is why I think the front line of Ronaldinho, Eto'o and Messi was the most potent and fearsome of them all. All 3 were capable of scoring/assisting with ease, and the two on the flank possessed the spark to do unspeakably wonderful things at any moment in the game. That's just me though. I suppose they could try and purchase a more traditional CF again, but I'm just not sure Barca will ever change their game enough to make that work.
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On November 08 2012 08:56 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 08 2012 08:49 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:41 Denzil wrote:On November 08 2012 08:35 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:30 Denzil wrote:On November 08 2012 08:29 WillyWanker wrote:On November 08 2012 08:26 Denzil wrote:
Barca seem to have a real problem with dealing with turtled up teams, Every team would have this problem :p Shooting through 16 legs and a 1.90m high GK has never been easy it's almost as if you're implying they never come out of their half therefore you don't let them score on the 3 chances they get in 90 minutes. it's not difficult really 8 players never come out of their half, its true! Not every team Barcelona faces manage to score 2 goals in 3 attemps, thats why Barcelona wins a lot more than they lose you know... When your strikers are not efficient enough, the risk is that you are going to suffer a lot in defense... happens too consistently against them from a club like chelsea for you to play it off as luck barcalona and their fans seem too wrapped up in playing the beautiful game and everyone who doesn't shames football and whatnot. Barca have a problem dealing with a simple route 1 ball and thats been obvious from the many times chelsea alone have given them trouble it's a shame they don't sort it out really I have absolutely no problem admitting that there are others ways to play football than what Barcelona does... Chelsea played it good but they also had 'luck', if you can call it like that, to play against a physically weak team, having a GK that played his 2 best games of the year, scoring 3 goals in 3 attemps in 2 games, having Messi miss a penalty etc... You gotta admit that to win against Bcn playing this way you'll need a shit ton of conditions going your way... They are having trouble against turtle strat because they have to deal with that every week and its really exhausting to try and penetrate these kind of defenses.. You play 50 games a year where every team you play is playing the game of the year with 200% determination and physical impact.. They're humans not machines, look at the number of injured in Barcelona's team, its not a coincidence... They're still, in my opinion, BY FAR the best football producing team. why is it exhausting, I keep getting told its exhausting for defensive teams to do that, barca/spain are the "lucky ones" just waiting for the enemy to lose their energy
Because they are not just passing the ball from left to right? You don't pay enough attention to these games I believe...
The core asset of bcn and Spain lies in the control of the game. They control the pace of the game and in offensive phases they try to find the most adequate opportunity to strike and score. But to control the game they need the ball so when they lose it you can see them running like mad people to get it back. When they try to find the opportunity there are a lot of movements on the field because players without the ball need to constantly offer solutions for a pass...
When you look at the stats spain and barcelona run the same distance as the opposing team, but the effort is shared better among the players because its a collective work.
Moreover most teams would sign for a draw at the beginning of the game but Barca or Spain always try to win which means that they need to make more efforts and put more intensity to succeed... Lastly, they play every competition and oftrn access finals or semi finals which means that they play, in general, more games than any other team in Europe.
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EPT
