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On February 13 2012 05:34 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 05:15 ElizarTringov wrote:On February 13 2012 04:56 Sneakyz wrote:On February 13 2012 04:50 ElizarTringov wrote:On February 12 2012 22:02 eshlow wrote:
Again, Paleo is not necessarily high or low carb.
Paleo, specifically higher protein and fat, don't suppress hunger but they do induce satiety through hormones such as ghrelin, leptin, cck, etc.
This is pointless.
You have no studies "debunking" Paleo so now you're just rambling about different people even though one (Robb) admits he is super stressed from traveling and should be focused on recovery factors.
Go find a vegan thread to post in so you can rant about Paleo here. You are making yourself look dumb since your arguments are terrible, He is super stressed "from" traveling, or is he super stressed because the Paleo diet is thrashing his body? Didn't know Paleo man took pills to help him stay Paleo. Really dood... If the people reading this thread are to believe you over a PT and the author of a book, you ought to supply some credible studies instead of your pointless straw grabbing. And as numerous people have already told you, paleo is not a low-carb diet only... Ok cool story. People keep mentioning that grains came into the human diet fairly recently, but so did meat, but we ate something else before that, and our basic physiology hasn't really changed much since then. http://www.scribd.com/doc/17111888/Science-Verifies-That-Humans-Are-Frugivores Did you even read your link? lol at considering human ancestors before australopithecus. We might as well say in true paleo diet we should only eat plancton because we descend from fish -.- Also, check the "sources" the guy uses. Bullshit propaganda websites, not any real study. Srsly, stop posting retarded shit.
Are you suggesting plancton is easier to catch than it is to gather fruit from a tree? Are you suggesting it is easier to digest than fruit?
User was temp banned for this post.
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I'm going to try it, I have ulcerative colitis and attribute it to my bad diet. I'm only 18 years old and don't want it to develop into something worse. Thanks for this.
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8751 Posts
Okay, having tried going off grains, and getting carbs only from fruits, vegetables and the sugar in milk, I just don't see it as viable for eating 1200-1500 calories of carbs a day. I just can't eat that many potatoes. It's like 2.5-3 pounds of potatoes, plus some fruits. Is it something I have to adapt to? Or is it just simply easier to eat more carbs via bread and pasta than potato? How many people doing a ton of cardio can actually do paleo? My maintenance is about 3400 calories.
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A year ago I tried a modified version of this given to me by a coach, and had issues with it. I felt like I had no energy during exercise (I was having to do a lot of 16km and 3x6km rows for training). I only tried it for a week, and the chicken breast at breakfast was killing me. This may have been as other people said that it was difficult to get enough carbs, but I was eating a ton of nuts as well (including peanuts which I had been told not to eat but yeah). For some reason my coach had also said lentils were fine but some of the info in the OP said you shouldn't?
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On February 22 2012 03:10 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Okay, having tried going off grains, and getting carbs only from fruits, vegetables and the sugar in milk, I just don't see it as viable for eating 1200-1500 calories of carbs a day. I just can't eat that many potatoes. It's like 2.5-3 pounds of potatoes, plus some fruits. Is it something I have to adapt to? Or is it just simply easier to eat more carbs via bread and pasta than potato? How many people doing a ton of cardio can actually do paleo? My maintenance is about 3400 calories.
On February 22 2012 04:54 Deadeight wrote:
A year ago I tried a modified version of this given to me by a coach, and had issues with it. I felt like I had no energy during exercise (I was having to do a lot of 16km and 3x6km rows for training). I only tried it for a week, and the chicken breast at breakfast was killing me. This may have been as other people said that it was difficult to get enough carbs, but I was eating a ton of nuts as well (including peanuts which I had been told not to eat but yeah). For some reason my coach had also said lentils were fine but some of the info in the OP said you shouldn't?
It's MUCH harder to get that many carbs on Paleo.
If you are going to try to get more carbs I'd get it from "generally safe" starch such as white rice, and potatoes.
Most of the grain products, at least here in the US, like bread, pasta, etc. are highly refined and thus not very good for you.
I'm trying to bulk up right now so I'm eating a crapton of rice for my starch since I can't pound down the potatoes either (even though the potatoes taste better than rice).
Not strictly Paleo, but most Paleo people are coming around to the idea of safe starches overall. So there ya go. White rice FTW.
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Ah, well I think the one I was given was intended to be low carbs till afternoon. It was high fat and high protein, and I was told something about if you don't have carbs in the morning you then end up burning more fat, which was why I wasn't supposed to be having peanuts.
Looking at OP info I'm not so sure it was really paleo and what I was doing is sounding more like crap. I'm also thinking now maybe my coach was trying to tell me to lose weight but wouldn't just say it. I'm not sure there was any sporting benefit from it.
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On February 22 2012 05:17 eshlow wrote:
I'm trying to bulk up right now so I'm eating a crapton of rice for my starch since I can't pound down the potatoes either (even though the potatoes taste better than rice).
May I ask what the reason is for your bulk? I can hardly imagine the benefits for a gymnast to be heavier, so what are you up to?
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eshlow, i've seen a lot of paleo/diet info in general but i've yet to see a really good take of white rice v brown rice
i understand brown rice has phytic acid, which impacts the absorption of the extra minerals, but isn't white rice exactly what you said later in your post -- "highly refined"?
and if gluten's the problem will buying gluten-free wheat products solve it? and sprouted bread?
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I feel like I committed many "sins" today.
I had Popeye's 2 piece chicken for $.99 (Every Tuesday) today. My job also had a ceremony party where there was fruit punch and a big slice of white cake with lime/pineapple like candy inside with white icing on top.
I couldn't resist... 
It tasted so good, but yet I know it's so bad for my body. They offered "seconds" for the cake/punch but I had to reject it because I know I already "sinned" for the day. How do you guys live with not eating delicious, but yet bad foods.
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On February 22 2012 07:34 Malinor wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 05:17 eshlow wrote:
I'm trying to bulk up right now so I'm eating a crapton of rice for my starch since I can't pound down the potatoes either (even though the potatoes taste better than rice).
May I ask what the reason is for your bulk? I can hardly imagine the benefits for a gymnast to be heavier, so what are you up to?
I'm acutally pretty light for my height (5'8" 135) and I've been want to bulk up for a while just tried to recover first so I could acually do harder workouts. But iit seems OK so far and I'm still recovering slightly.
I'd like to get up to 150 or so if not a bit heavier. Will be better for my strength/weight ratio overall
On February 22 2012 09:36 KamMoye wrote:
eshlow, i've seen a lot of paleo/diet info in general but i've yet to see a really good take of white rice v brown rice
i understand brown rice has phytic acid, which impacts the absorption of the extra minerals, but isn't white rice exactly what you said later in your post -- "highly refined"?
and if gluten's the problem will buying gluten-free wheat products solve it? and sprouted bread?
The Jaminet's aren't strictly Paleo but have a pretty good take on things:
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/?p=4878
This is what they recommend for reference:
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/Food-Plate-600dpi.jpg
So there ya go.
On February 22 2012 09:42 Silentness wrote:I feel like I committed many "sins" today. I had Popeye's 2 piece chicken for $.99 (Every Tuesday) today. My job also had a ceremony party where there was fruit punch and a big slice of white cake with lime/pineapple like candy inside with white icing on top. I couldn't resist... It tasted so good, but yet I know it's so bad for my body. They offered "seconds" for the cake/punch but I had to reject it because I know I already "sinned" for the day. How do you guys live with not eating delicious, but yet bad foods.
Once you get used to eating clean and good at making your own food you don't need to eat other stuff.
However, generally speaking, don't feel bad if you "cheat" every once in a while. I drink a soda occasionally or have a piece of cake (though my intestines usually regret that). Enjoy your food and don't obsess.
As long as you're eating clean at least 80% of the time (well, I prefer 95% of the time as the number) you get most of the benefits of eating well.
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On February 22 2012 09:42 Silentness wrote:I feel like I committed many "sins" today. I had Popeye's 2 piece chicken for $.99 (Every Tuesday) today. My job also had a ceremony party where there was fruit punch and a big slice of white cake with lime/pineapple like candy inside with white icing on top. I couldn't resist... It tasted so good, but yet I know it's so bad for my body. They offered "seconds" for the cake/punch but I had to reject it because I know I already "sinned" for the day. How do you guys live with not eating delicious, but yet bad foods.
we don't live, we squat a lot though.
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On February 22 2012 03:10 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Okay, having tried going off grains, and getting carbs only from fruits, vegetables and the sugar in milk, I just don't see it as viable for eating 1200-1500 calories of carbs a day. I just can't eat that many potatoes. It's like 2.5-3 pounds of potatoes, plus some fruits. Is it something I have to adapt to? Or is it just simply easier to eat more carbs via bread and pasta than potato? How many people doing a ton of cardio can actually do paleo? My maintenance is about 3400 calories.
The idea is to get the majority of your calories through healthy fat and stay low carb.
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On February 25 2012 14:22 Glockateer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 03:10 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Okay, having tried going off grains, and getting carbs only from fruits, vegetables and the sugar in milk, I just don't see it as viable for eating 1200-1500 calories of carbs a day. I just can't eat that many potatoes. It's like 2.5-3 pounds of potatoes, plus some fruits. Is it something I have to adapt to? Or is it just simply easier to eat more carbs via bread and pasta than potato? How many people doing a ton of cardio can actually do paleo? My maintenance is about 3400 calories. The idea is to get the majority of your calories through healthy fat and stay low carb.
Nony is A runner, and endurance athletes are not that much into low carbs. Besides that, the Paleo-diet as eshlow teaches it to the masses in here is not low carb. It just happens to be lower in carb since there is not much calories in vegetables (and even fruits for that matter).
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The paleo diet is very questionable. Yes, grains are typically bad for you and humans have only been eating them for about 10k years. But high fat/high protein diets and calorie-restricting diets are way fucking worse for you than eating lots of rice bread and pasta.
Now you ask for evidence. Studies. Peer reviewed research. HERE IT IS:
"The largest and most comprehensive study ever done on human diet":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)
The study's conclusion? The optimal diet for human consumption is a high-carb, low fat, low protein, plant-based diet.
Oh, and the guy who said that humans are biologically designed as FRUGIVORES (fruit based diet)? He might be on to something. I won't go into details because this is much more complicated.
So here are pictures of 30+ people who have been eating high calorie (3k+ minimum) high carb FRUIT AND VEG ONLY diets for YEARS. According to traditional diet beliefs, they're probably morbidly obese, half-dead and comatose...
THIS is your body on a frugivorous diet. (you may be suprised ^^)
Just wanted to throw this info out there so that hopefully some people don't get misled by a lot of terrible unscientific health advice people learn from protein powder and supplement advertisements, oprah tv shows, and magic diet comercials. If you're interested, do the research and decide for yourself.
And if you're gonna reply to this because you found something to criticise, go ahead. I probably wont respond.
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"Hey guys, I come in here with a wikipedia-link to show you that what you guys are doing is stupid. Also, here is a link of a fit human being eating no meat. Shocking, right? That such a thing exists completely shows how Paleo is horrible.
By the way, if you have criticism, I don't give a fuck and just won't bother responding to you"
Fur fucks sake. I don't eat Paleo, and I am not even 100% convinced that it is the way to go. And I am disgusted by those Paleo websites which sell supplements to eat like a caveman (ROFL). But the guys coming in here to argue against Paleo are arguing on such an embarassing level, it is just pathetic. They basically give us nothing.
If you would like to refuse Paleo, come up with studies which show that grains are actually good for humans, because Paleo is above everything else against grains (and on a broader view against processed products in general, which makes the concept of the diet very broad, which would be one of my criticisms actually).
edit: Besides all the ranting, I am gonna check out this China Study, it looks definitely interesting to read about. Noone should say I am not open-minded. Everyone telling me that potatoes are awesome and the cure for everything has my vote 
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On February 25 2012 18:06 MadProbe wrote:The paleo diet is very questionable. Yes, grains are typically bad for you and humans have only been eating them for about 10k years. But high fat/high protein diets and calorie-restricting diets are way fucking worse for you than eating lots of rice bread and pasta. Now you ask for evidence. Studies. Peer reviewed research. HERE IT IS: "The largest and most comprehensive study ever done on human diet": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)The study's conclusion? The optimal diet for human consumption is a high-carb, low fat, low protein, plant-based diet. Oh, and the guy who said that humans are biologically designed as FRUGIVORES (fruit based diet)? He might be on to something. I won't go into details because this is much more complicated. So here are pictures of 30+ people who have been eating high calorie (3k+ minimum) high carb FRUIT AND VEG ONLY diets for YEARS. According to traditional diet beliefs, they're probably morbidly obese, half-dead and comatose... THIS is your body on a frugivorous diet. (you may be suprised ^^) Just wanted to throw this info out there so that hopefully some people don't get misled by a lot of terrible unscientific health advice people learn from protein powder and supplement advertisements, oprah tv shows, and magic diet comercials. If you're interested, do the research and decide for yourself. And if you're gonna reply to this because you found something to criticise, go ahead. I probably wont respond.
So what you're saying is that you want to voice your opinion and then ignore all others?
Great! This discussion ended before it even started, and based on the contents of your post, that's probably for the best. If you want to eat a "high carb FRUIT AND VEG ONLY diet" be my guest. Just realize that anybody with any sense whatsoever will see your opinion for what it really is: worthless.
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On February 25 2012 18:06 MadProbe wrote:The paleo diet is very questionable. Yes, grains are typically bad for you and humans have only been eating them for about 10k years. But high fat/high protein diets and calorie-restricting diets are way fucking worse for you than eating lots of rice bread and pasta. Now you ask for evidence. Studies. Peer reviewed research. HERE IT IS: "The largest and most comprehensive study ever done on human diet": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)The study's conclusion? The optimal diet for human consumption is a high-carb, low fat, low protein, plant-based diet. Oh, and the guy who said that humans are biologically designed as FRUGIVORES (fruit based diet)? He might be on to something. I won't go into details because this is much more complicated. So here are pictures of 30+ people who have been eating high calorie (3k+ minimum) high carb FRUIT AND VEG ONLY diets for YEARS. According to traditional diet beliefs, they're probably morbidly obese, half-dead and comatose... THIS is your body on a frugivorous diet. (you may be suprised ^^) Just wanted to throw this info out there so that hopefully some people don't get misled by a lot of terrible unscientific health advice people learn from protein powder and supplement advertisements, oprah tv shows, and magic diet comercials. If you're interested, do the research and decide for yourself. And if you're gonna reply to this because you found something to criticise, go ahead. I probably wont respond.
They just look unnatural to me. Real strong men don't look like that at all. From the looks of it, you go on that diet if you want to be all show. I'll certainly take my healthy fats for brain and body growth over that crap regardless.
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On February 25 2012 19:48 Glockateer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2012 18:06 MadProbe wrote:The paleo diet is very questionable. Yes, grains are typically bad for you and humans have only been eating them for about 10k years. But high fat/high protein diets and calorie-restricting diets are way fucking worse for you than eating lots of rice bread and pasta. Now you ask for evidence. Studies. Peer reviewed research. HERE IT IS: "The largest and most comprehensive study ever done on human diet": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)The study's conclusion? The optimal diet for human consumption is a high-carb, low fat, low protein, plant-based diet. Oh, and the guy who said that humans are biologically designed as FRUGIVORES (fruit based diet)? He might be on to something. I won't go into details because this is much more complicated. So here are pictures of 30+ people who have been eating high calorie (3k+ minimum) high carb FRUIT AND VEG ONLY diets for YEARS. According to traditional diet beliefs, they're probably morbidly obese, half-dead and comatose... THIS is your body on a frugivorous diet. (you may be suprised ^^) Just wanted to throw this info out there so that hopefully some people don't get misled by a lot of terrible unscientific health advice people learn from protein powder and supplement advertisements, oprah tv shows, and magic diet comercials. If you're interested, do the research and decide for yourself. And if you're gonna reply to this because you found something to criticise, go ahead. I probably wont respond. They just look unnatural to me. Real strong men don't look like that at all. From the looks of it, you go on that diet if you want to be all show. I'll certainly take my healthy fats for brain and body growth over that crap regardless.
I agree the men just look weak with low bodyfat. the women on the other hand... not bad 
http://www.30bananasaday.com/forum/topics/811-gladiators?commentId=2684079:Comment:1881256 a bit skinny but i'd hit it
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On February 25 2012 18:06 MadProbe wrote:The paleo diet is very questionable. Yes, grains are typically bad for you and humans have only been eating them for about 10k years. But high fat/high protein diets and calorie-restricting diets are way fucking worse for you than eating lots of rice bread and pasta. Now you ask for evidence. Studies. Peer reviewed research. HERE IT IS: "The largest and most comprehensive study ever done on human diet": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Study_(book)The study's conclusion? The optimal diet for human consumption is a high-carb, low fat, low protein, plant-based diet. Oh, and the guy who said that humans are biologically designed as FRUGIVORES (fruit based diet)? He might be on to something. I won't go into details because this is much more complicated. So here are pictures of 30+ people who have been eating high calorie (3k+ minimum) high carb FRUIT AND VEG ONLY diets for YEARS. According to traditional diet beliefs, they're probably morbidly obese, half-dead and comatose... THIS is your body on a frugivorous diet. (you may be suprised ^^) Just wanted to throw this info out there so that hopefully some people don't get misled by a lot of terrible unscientific health advice people learn from protein powder and supplement advertisements, oprah tv shows, and magic diet comercials. If you're interested, do the research and decide for yourself. And if you're gonna reply to this because you found something to criticise, go ahead. I probably wont respond.
The China Study was already discussed on page 13.
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You know what the funny thing about The China Study is?
So Campbell writes up the thing.
Denise Minger and other people run the stats from the study again, and it doesn't actually show what Campbell claims.
Peopel criticize Minger for incorrect analysis.... but what about Campbell's analysis of what was wrong in the first place?
The simple fact of the matter is looking at the stats from various points of view, there isn't a significant impact of meat et al on CVD (there is some, but not a whole lot). The biggest impact on CVD from the study was GRAINS GRAINS GRAINS. HUGE correlation with grains and CVD.
I don't have a problem with eating a lot of fruit on Paleo.... I wish people would actually read the damn OP because you can eat tons of fruits and vegetables on Paleo and it's still healthy.
Again, Paleo is neither low carb or high carb.., you can make it what you want by adding in more carbs if they need to.
In modern hunter-gatherer diets, dietary protein is characteristically elevated (19–35% of energy) at the expense of carbohydrate (22–40% of energy)
2000 kcal diet that's:
95g-175g of protein (hmmm... seems eeriely familiar to around .75-1g/lbs that people recommend for ATHLETIC populations... as you know hunter gatherers actually have to move around to get their food and hunt...). And they didn't have chronic kidney disease either!
110g-200g of carbohydrates -- which is not even low carb at all. This is what moderate carbohydrates look like, unless you are competing in an endurance sport which you may need upwards of 250g+ of carbs (which is 50% carbs). Low carb is <100g and ketogenic IIRC is <40-50 carbs or thereabouts.
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EPT
