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On July 05 2013 04:59 Earll wrote:
Not sure if this belongs in questionthread on here, its a nutrition\dietquestion though so i'll ask here. For whatever reason I set myself a goal to reach a specific weight before I go up again and gain muscle (75kg being that goal.) I am at 78~75.5 now, and have been around here for like 2 or so weeks. (Had a weigh in 2 weeks ago at 75.6kg, and today at 78.0, 180cm tall btw) my BMR is 1800~ and i eat like 1500~kcals a day, but then again I obviously work out a reasonable amount etc so I should be quite a bit under the maintenance calorie intake.
My question is, I've read a few places/heard from a few people, but only a bit more dubious sources, that you will plateau when losing weight, and that its good to have a 'cheat day' where i eat more than i am supposed to, for the metabolism to start up again or something\will help with losing weight. this sounds oddly close to the whole starvation mode 'myth'(?) mumbojumbo. So am not sure if i should just stick to my guns and keep eating at a deficit, or if I should incorporate a cheat day for the sake of losing weight faster.
((Disclaimer: I Realize I could just start eating lots now to gain muscle, but when I started losing weight i set myself the goal of 75kg before I go up agian, and want to stick to this goal.))
I have a cheat day to keep my sanity (beer and nachos mah weakness, mainly beer tho) and -500 cal deficiet every other day and have lost .5-1 lb every week so its good enough for me. Obviously dont go crazy overboard and it will be fine.
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If you have incurred "metabolic damage" a cheat day wont help.
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On July 05 2013 07:31 decafchicken wrote:
Errr where did you get 1800 cal BMR? That seems really low...
I mean thats the base metabolic rate , so it is fairly low yeah, my actaully weight maintnance thing is obviously higher when it includes activity\exercise etc. Am 78kg male 1.81cm~tall.
On July 05 2013 11:07 Mementoss wrote:
I have a cheat day to keep my sanity (beer and nachos mah weakness, mainly beer tho) and -500 cal deficiet every other day and have lost .5-1 lb every week so its good enough for me. Obviously dont go crazy overboard and it will be fine.
I mean in terms of my own well being I am completely fine without a cheat day, Honestly the few times I have cheated it just ends up with me feeling physically sort of shitty afterwards because my body is not used to all these unhealthy foods now I guess.
On July 05 2013 11:41 ShadeR wrote:
If you have incurred "metabolic damage" a cheat day wont help.
Is there any chance I have done that though? I just feel like I get mixed messages from various webistes etc, some people are like "the only thing that matters is kcal in\out , if you want to lose weight faster, just eat less" but then some are like "noo don't do that you will enter starvation mode and your metabolism stops\slows down." but then starvation mode seems to be a myth\not that accurate unless you go for a long period of time literally without eating so I don't know what to take from that.
I know I am eating a bit less than I should be doing to retain\gain as much muscle as possible while going down in weight, but I am ok with that. Just trying to lose another 2.5kgs 'as fast as possible' so I can have reached my initial goal and then start going up in weight again.
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Yeah you need to multiply your BMR times your activity rating thingy to figure out how many calories you should really be eating.
When it comes to losing/gaining weight the #1 thing is calories in vs out. Don't worry about that starvation mode bullshit unless you're not eating for days at a time lol.
Unless you have a specific reason for dropping those 2.5kg, i would just use the mirror as your frame of reference instead of the scale, if you want to just putting on some muscle than go for it.
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here's the original study. haven't had a chance to thoroughly read through it yet though.
http://www.westonaprice.org/cardiovascular-disease/how-does-pork-prepared-in-various-ways-affect-the-blood
edit:
basically, 3 people were give different types of meat (4 types of pork and 1 type of lamb) on different days. would definitely have liked a larger sample size, but we'll have to take this pilot study for what it gives. their blood was tested before eating and 5 hours after eating. eating unmarinated uncured pork caused blood coagulation in all three subjects. eating vinegar marinated pork, uncured bacon (salted), prosciutto (salted), and unmarinated lamb did not cause any significant blood coagulation in any subject. the researcher concludes that there is something (whatever is causing the coagulation) in pork that can't be denatured by cooking alone, but it can be disabled through marinating or preservation via salt.
interesting study. i had always thought that meat with less salt, less processing, and less additives is better in every way, but i guess it might not hold true for pork. i may start incorporating this into my diet. i eat a lot of other meat anyways, but the next time i cook pork, ill marinate it overnight. or just buy bacon lol.
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thanks, interesting read.
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On July 03 2013 12:01 decafchicken wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 09:01 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 03 2013 05:59 decafchicken wrote:On July 03 2013 05:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 03 2013 05:09 decafchicken wrote:So the studies by scientists that we read are bullshit but the thoroughly debunked observational study you read is nothing but the truth? And I did not link you to a paleo website. It was written by a vegan of ten years. It’s no surprise “The China Study” has been so widely embraced within the vegan and vegetarian community: It says point-blank what any vegan wants to hear—that there’s scientific rationale for avoiding all animal foods. That even small amounts of animal protein are harmful. That an ethical ideal can be completely wed with health. These are exciting things to hear for anyone trying to justify a plant-only diet, and it’s for this reason I believe “The China Study” has not received as much critical analysis as it deserves, especially from some of the great thinkers in the vegetarian world. Hopefully this critique has shed some light on the book’s problems and will lead others to examine the data for themselves. Yes, fish and spinach are good for you. Yes high amounts of bad cholesterol blood levels are bad for you. Simply believing something that 'a ton of people back' is bad for you (the world is flat, earth is the center of the universe, etc.). Also, it does not 'make the most logical sense'. Nobody here is arguing that the paleo diet is good because its actually what our ancestors ate or w/e marketing bullshit surrounds it. We're using studies that show it's good for you despite some of the fallacies of its origins. The studies by scientists that you post are quite possibly psuedo science and I'm sure if I took the time out to research them, they are already debunked by vegetarians that don't even eat fish or debunked possibly by people that are not vegetarians. If what they wrote in that article is so profound why don't they write a book on it and see how successful and backed by modern nutritionists/scientists that i becomes and the criticism that is gets. The truth is that every study out there has been pseudo "debunked"....you just have to follow common sense that the AHA would not lie to you and that The China Study put more research and effort into any of these debunking arguments. Basically, you believe in what you want to believe in, I'll believe what makes the most sense to me. I read the other day about a diet written by a scientist that eating nothing but Twinkies can increase your health if you don't go over your caloric needs on them and there are scientists that will tell you that rat poison is good for you in small amounts. The backed research in a book and common sense/logic a long with stuff supported by the AHA is the stuff that I will believe.....not stuff posted on the internet as most would laugh at me or others if they believed everything that was written on the internet and I'd have to agree. If they are so hard off on believing that they debunked The China Study they should write a book on it and see if that gets debunked as well. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that talking about diet is like talking about religion or politics as everyone is trying to debunk everyone. Vegetarians are debunking Paleo's & Paleos are debunking vegetarians and it goes on and on. I'd put my faith into a large organization that exists outside of the internet such as The AHA and into research done by actual professionals such as the research done in The China Study vs any internet article or book that is not widely backed by modern science and organizations such as the AHA. By the way you're going against the Paleo diet when you say that high cholesterol does not contribute to CVD when the others on here said otherwise and even Rob Wolf contradicted his own diet when he said that 75% of CVD hospital patients have high cholesterol. The China Study if you read it, also does not advocate a 100% vegetarian diet they say that small portions of fish are actually healthy and once in a while snacking on something other than a primarily based vegetarian diet is okay..... High HDL cholesterol does NOT contribute to CVD, as claimed by your beloved AHA: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/AboutCholesterol/What-Your-Cholesterol-Levels-Mean_UCM_305562_Article.jsp However, high LDL and triglycerides do contribute to CVD If you bothered to even give the link on the china study half a glance you would see that Dr. Campbell of the china study and the author have replied back and forth on each others critiques so you can at least examine both sides of the argument. By the way I read the article in the link that you posted and I was right.....it was reverse debunked by one of the authors of The China Study....... And the author responded to the 'reverse debunk' as well.
The author then redouble bunked the authors debunking comments......
It's best to justr use common sense and your idols (aka those that have actually lived long, healthly, generally disease free life styles) a long with the recommendations to determine your diet.
Basing ones diet around internet evidence done on small scale studies and going against the current mainstream evidence could be harmful not to mention I have seen tons of fat Paleo authors and know a good amount of people that had to cut out a significant amount of meat out of their diet due to having high cholesterol values and/or suffering heart attacks.
I think if people choose meats with the lowest cholesterol values and eat it maybe once a week, the rest filled with veggies/fruits/legumes/nuts/seeds/grains that they will be fine as long as they stay away from the processed food for the most part as well.
One food recommendation that I do have is oatmeal.
Oatmeal is really good at lowering cholesterol as long as you don't have cel.
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[/QUOTE]
I have a cheat day to keep my sanity (beer and nachos mah weakness, mainly beer tho) and -500 cal deficiet every other day and have lost .5-1 lb every week so its good enough for me. Obviously dont go crazy overboard and it will be fine.[/QUOTE]
Some people do seem to have success with a cheat day. I think it still has to be within reason though. You might eat a favorite food or two but you do not want to be taking on a ridiculous amount of extra calories. But I think having a cheat day can help one to stick to really good eating habits the rest of the days per week. And, of course, some individuals just have a cheat meal once per week where they eat whatever they want for that meal but that meal only. Again, I guess this could work as long as not getting carried away.
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On July 08 2013 05:12 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 12:01 decafchicken wrote:On July 03 2013 09:01 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 03 2013 05:59 decafchicken wrote:On July 03 2013 05:24 SjPhotoGrapher wrote:On July 03 2013 05:09 decafchicken wrote:So the studies by scientists that we read are bullshit but the thoroughly debunked observational study you read is nothing but the truth? And I did not link you to a paleo website. It was written by a vegan of ten years. It’s no surprise “The China Study” has been so widely embraced within the vegan and vegetarian community: It says point-blank what any vegan wants to hear—that there’s scientific rationale for avoiding all animal foods. That even small amounts of animal protein are harmful. That an ethical ideal can be completely wed with health. These are exciting things to hear for anyone trying to justify a plant-only diet, and it’s for this reason I believe “The China Study” has not received as much critical analysis as it deserves, especially from some of the great thinkers in the vegetarian world. Hopefully this critique has shed some light on the book’s problems and will lead others to examine the data for themselves. Yes, fish and spinach are good for you. Yes high amounts of bad cholesterol blood levels are bad for you. Simply believing something that 'a ton of people back' is bad for you (the world is flat, earth is the center of the universe, etc.). Also, it does not 'make the most logical sense'. Nobody here is arguing that the paleo diet is good because its actually what our ancestors ate or w/e marketing bullshit surrounds it. We're using studies that show it's good for you despite some of the fallacies of its origins. The studies by scientists that you post are quite possibly psuedo science and I'm sure if I took the time out to research them, they are already debunked by vegetarians that don't even eat fish or debunked possibly by people that are not vegetarians. If what they wrote in that article is so profound why don't they write a book on it and see how successful and backed by modern nutritionists/scientists that i becomes and the criticism that is gets. The truth is that every study out there has been pseudo "debunked"....you just have to follow common sense that the AHA would not lie to you and that The China Study put more research and effort into any of these debunking arguments. Basically, you believe in what you want to believe in, I'll believe what makes the most sense to me. I read the other day about a diet written by a scientist that eating nothing but Twinkies can increase your health if you don't go over your caloric needs on them and there are scientists that will tell you that rat poison is good for you in small amounts. The backed research in a book and common sense/logic a long with stuff supported by the AHA is the stuff that I will believe.....not stuff posted on the internet as most would laugh at me or others if they believed everything that was written on the internet and I'd have to agree. If they are so hard off on believing that they debunked The China Study they should write a book on it and see if that gets debunked as well. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that talking about diet is like talking about religion or politics as everyone is trying to debunk everyone. Vegetarians are debunking Paleo's & Paleos are debunking vegetarians and it goes on and on. I'd put my faith into a large organization that exists outside of the internet such as The AHA and into research done by actual professionals such as the research done in The China Study vs any internet article or book that is not widely backed by modern science and organizations such as the AHA. By the way you're going against the Paleo diet when you say that high cholesterol does not contribute to CVD when the others on here said otherwise and even Rob Wolf contradicted his own diet when he said that 75% of CVD hospital patients have high cholesterol. The China Study if you read it, also does not advocate a 100% vegetarian diet they say that small portions of fish are actually healthy and once in a while snacking on something other than a primarily based vegetarian diet is okay..... High HDL cholesterol does NOT contribute to CVD, as claimed by your beloved AHA: http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/Cholesterol/AboutCholesterol/What-Your-Cholesterol-Levels-Mean_UCM_305562_Article.jsp However, high LDL and triglycerides do contribute to CVD If you bothered to even give the link on the china study half a glance you would see that Dr. Campbell of the china study and the author have replied back and forth on each others critiques so you can at least examine both sides of the argument. By the way I read the article in the link that you posted and I was right.....it was reverse debunked by one of the authors of The China Study....... And the author responded to the 'reverse debunk' as well. The author then redouble bunked the authors debunking comments...... It's best to justr use common sense and your idols (aka those that have actually lived long, healthly, generally disease free life styles) a long with the recommendations to determine your diet. Basing ones diet around internet evidence done on small scale studies and going against the current mainstream evidence could be harmful not to mention I have seen tons of fat Paleo authors and know a good amount of people that had to cut out a significant amount of meat out of their diet due to having high cholesterol values and/or suffering heart attacks.
If you want to play that game, Prince Fielder is a vegetarian and he's about the size of a tree despite being a professional athlete rofl.
I think if people choose meats with the lowest cholesterol values and eat it maybe once a week, the rest filled with veggies/fruits/legumes/nuts/seeds/grains that they will be fine as long as they stay away from the processed food for the most part as well.
Grains are processed foods. And again, dietary cholesterol =/= blood cholesterol.
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Some days, I have a bad cheat day and binge on 2 bags of doretos and two jars of dip,then some big macs. Oh how I love those days.
Reading history about humans and about our biology, we can live 7 days with no food and 3 days with no water.
If you have a bad day or want to lose weight? Just simply don't eat for a day or two just drink water, sure its not the best, but thats also because of our glutinous society where food is so easy to get. Your stomach might complain, but its like giving a girl a flower ever day, you train her into expecting a flower every day. If you don't get it, it will be a day of complaining but in the end everything will be fine.
My two cents.
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On July 12 2013 00:01 KhaliWear wrote:
Some days, I have a bad cheat day and binge on 2 bags of doretos and two jars of dip,then some big macs. Oh how I love those days.
Reading history about humans and about our biology, we can live 7 days with no food and 3 days with no water.
If you have a bad day or want to lose weight? Just simply don't eat for a day or two just drink water, sure its not the best, but thats also because of our glutinous society where food is so easy to get. Your stomach might complain, but its like giving a girl a flower ever day, you train her into expecting a flower every day. If you don't get it, it will be a day of complaining but in the end everything will be fine.
My two cents.
Try doing this when you are running 100 miles a week or training seriously in the gym. It might work if your only goal is to lose weight, and even then it's not very healthy, but if you are doing anything performance related it's just outright a terrible idea.
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On July 12 2013 02:49 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 00:01 KhaliWear wrote:
Some days, I have a bad cheat day and binge on 2 bags of doretos and two jars of dip,then some big macs. Oh how I love those days.
Reading history about humans and about our biology, we can live 7 days with no food and 3 days with no water.
If you have a bad day or want to lose weight? Just simply don't eat for a day or two just drink water, sure its not the best, but thats also because of our glutinous society where food is so easy to get. Your stomach might complain, but its like giving a girl a flower ever day, you train her into expecting a flower every day. If you don't get it, it will be a day of complaining but in the end everything will be fine.
My two cents. Try doing this when you are running 100 miles a week or training seriously in the gym. It might work if your only goal is to lose weight, and even then it's not very healthy, but if you are doing anything performance related it's just outright a terrible idea.
Of course it will not work if you are training for rugby or hockey. But if you are just sitting there, and will continue sitting there, don't eat. Humans used to fatten up for low food seasons and hey now we have water jet packs. Nothing wrong with no food, its just once again the whole fat society where everything is available en mass. If you don't eat OMG WTF BBQ is wrong with you?!!?
Don't forget to drink water and replace soda that stuff is the devil.
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Obviously yes if you're not active you eat less (this is reflected in your BMR when you multiply it by your activity level, for example my BMR is only 2200 calories, but since i train almost everyday its more like 3500). That being said we encourage everyone here to live active lifestyles!
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On July 12 2013 03:28 KhaliWear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 02:49 L_Master wrote:On July 12 2013 00:01 KhaliWear wrote:
Some days, I have a bad cheat day and binge on 2 bags of doretos and two jars of dip,then some big macs. Oh how I love those days.
Reading history about humans and about our biology, we can live 7 days with no food and 3 days with no water.
If you have a bad day or want to lose weight? Just simply don't eat for a day or two just drink water, sure its not the best, but thats also because of our glutinous society where food is so easy to get. Your stomach might complain, but its like giving a girl a flower ever day, you train her into expecting a flower every day. If you don't get it, it will be a day of complaining but in the end everything will be fine.
My two cents. Try doing this when you are running 100 miles a week or training seriously in the gym. It might work if your only goal is to lose weight, and even then it's not very healthy, but if you are doing anything performance related it's just outright a terrible idea. Of course it will not work if you are training for rugby or hockey. But if you are just sitting there, and will continue sitting there, don't eat. Humans used to fatten up for low food seasons and hey now we have water jet packs. Nothing wrong with no food, its just once again the whole fat society where everything is available en mass. If you don't eat OMG WTF BBQ is wrong with you?!!? Don't forget to drink water and replace soda that stuff is the devil.
Just not sure why you would do something unhealthy when you could just...eat in moderation. Not eating anything for longer periods of time is pretty stressful on the body.
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On July 12 2013 03:47 L_Master wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 03:28 KhaliWear wrote:On July 12 2013 02:49 L_Master wrote:On July 12 2013 00:01 KhaliWear wrote:
Some days, I have a bad cheat day and binge on 2 bags of doretos and two jars of dip,then some big macs. Oh how I love those days.
Reading history about humans and about our biology, we can live 7 days with no food and 3 days with no water.
If you have a bad day or want to lose weight? Just simply don't eat for a day or two just drink water, sure its not the best, but thats also because of our glutinous society where food is so easy to get. Your stomach might complain, but its like giving a girl a flower ever day, you train her into expecting a flower every day. If you don't get it, it will be a day of complaining but in the end everything will be fine.
My two cents. Try doing this when you are running 100 miles a week or training seriously in the gym. It might work if your only goal is to lose weight, and even then it's not very healthy, but if you are doing anything performance related it's just outright a terrible idea. Of course it will not work if you are training for rugby or hockey. But if you are just sitting there, and will continue sitting there, don't eat. Humans used to fatten up for low food seasons and hey now we have water jet packs. Nothing wrong with no food, its just once again the whole fat society where everything is available en mass. If you don't eat OMG WTF BBQ is wrong with you?!!? Don't forget to drink water and replace soda that stuff is the devil. Just not sure why you would do something unhealthy when you could just...eat in moderation. Not eating anything for longer periods of time is pretty stressful on the body.
It is not unhealthy though! We are just trained to think so because of the Walmarts. One day some where in Africa when the Australopithecus roamed there might have been no berries or animals at X location. They had to travel 2 days to location F for this food. I am not saying don't eat for 7 days I am saying for 2, and you will see a huge difference. Its like cheat codes for RL 
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People can also survive in outer space for 4 minutes, that doesnt mean we should give 1 minute a day a shot.
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On July 12 2013 04:35 decafchicken wrote:
People can also survive in outer space for 4 minutes, that doesnt mean we should give 1 minute a day a shot.
Why not? Could be the new X-treme sport :D
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infinity21
Canada6683 Posts
Some days I get distracted by something and don't eat anything and I'm fine (no exercise that day obv)
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There is also the soup diet. Read the title in the magazine I guessed the rest.
"21 days 21 pounds"
Makes sense, green pea soup, chicken noodle soup, pho, mushroom soups
Enough solid to make you last, enough liquids to also flush your entire system.
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EPT
