• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 11:03
CET 17:03
KST 01:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage12Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175Evil Geniuses - shutting down23
StarCraft 2
General
Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top? Liquibets sc2 season 30 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon
Tourneys
RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament iNu's Battles #22 SC4ALL: II Venue Change Announcement!
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Starcraft 2 Advance [G] How to playtest arcade maps [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage List of top players active on ShieldBattery screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool [BW] Looking for Clan Thread!
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [$1250] International ShieldBattery League Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy)
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Trading/Investing Thread Dating: How's your luck? European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 13419 users

The LiquidLegends Lounge - Page 586

Forum Index > The Shopkeeper′s Inn
Post a Reply
Prev 1 584 585 586 587 588 1885 Next
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 23 2015 01:41 GMT
#11701
On September 23 2015 09:55 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 09:45 Gahlo wrote:
Because people, including you, were discussing how people interact with a game that doesn't have any built in lore that effects the game and how it would be stupid to build lore when most people don't care. Fact is that League had lore, even if it was just a trumped up version of "kid playing with his toys" from Smash Bros when it was a small time game.

Nobody was arguing that lore is "stupid to build". But in terms of how the game is marketed with respect to the information that Blizzard is currently making available and how it affects my interest level in the game, lore's importance is near-zero because for a game that I have yet to play, my first thought is whether the game is fun to play or not. Telling me the game's lore without telling me anything about what the game is like to play first has no real meaning to me, *especially* for a competitive multiplayer game.

For a single-player game, the story is directly an element of the gameplay so it contributes to how fun the game itself is to play so marketing the game on story elements over gameplay mechanics is more understandable.

Is strong, well-built lore critical to making the game a successful final product? Absolutely. Is it what I want to hear about if I know nothing about the game and want information to set my hype level for it? Not really. For initial hype, there's really one singular question that actually matters, which is "does this game look fun to play?" Everything else is fluff. I don't see why that's a weird or outrageous idea.

Because that is what you are looking for first and foremost. You don't value the lore so you don't put any priority on it. If we were to look at SC2, it didn't matter to you that Raynor was trying to collect the pieces to the Zelnaga doodad to fulfill a prophecy because when it came down to it you just wanted to know how the new units were and how the paradigm shift to MBS and automine would change the game.

However, with a brand new IP new players aren't looking at "How is this game different than the previous one?" The quickest way to get new players to a new IP is to give them a hook to play the game. That's why the announcement trailer was entirely lore. This is a memorial to team awesome buddies. Oh no bad dudes introduced breaking into memorial place! Sweet, team awesome buddies coming to stop bad dude's nefarious schemes! All while showcasing a cinematic version of their kits. I quite clearly remember Soniv eating that shit up. Does he know that it's fun or not? No. But the important thing is that the video along with the short gameplay shown made him want to find out.

I highlighted the bold part because it really all comes down to that. To you. The way Blizzard has chose to market this game doesn't appeal to you because they are not trying to appeal to your sensibilities. On the other hand it works for people like Soniv. I'm willing to bet that the way that they are marketing the game appeals to the majority and that it is you who is in fact in the minority here.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 23 2015 01:58 GMT
#11702
On September 23 2015 10:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Question: anyone here seen Sense8 and can give me their review?

Been considering picking up Netflix to watch it but uh, not sure if wurf.

Netflix totally wurf. I don't even watch regular TV aside from a handful of series that I record.
It's your boy Guzma!
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 23 2015 02:11 GMT
#11703
On September 23 2015 10:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Question: anyone here seen Sense8 and can give me their review?

Been considering picking up Netflix to watch it but uh, not sure if wurf.

I really enjoyed Sense8. The main characters provide a pretty diverse set of protagonists that allows pretty much everybody to find some one to identify with.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
September 23 2015 02:19 GMT
#11704
Rivals of Aether went into early access today. Sure looks a lot like Smash. Probably better than Smash 4
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
ketchup
Profile Joined August 2010
14521 Posts
September 23 2015 02:30 GMT
#11705
On September 23 2015 10:58 Requizen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 10:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Question: anyone here seen Sense8 and can give me their review?

Been considering picking up Netflix to watch it but uh, not sure if wurf.

Netflix totally wurf. I don't even watch regular TV aside from a handful of series that I record.


People repeat this waayyyy too often. Netflix isn't for everyone, and I don't honestly believe they update with enough variety to be worth.

On September 23 2015 10:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Question: anyone here seen Sense8 and can give me their review?

Been considering picking up Netflix to watch it but uh, not sure if wurf.


Sense8 is pretty cool. It has potential for their characters to be engaging. There are some pretty amazing visual shots, which makes up for some of the pacing issues. I hope the second season is a lot better.

Really, I don't think Netflix is worth picking up just for one show. That applies for any show you want to watch on netflix. If you wanted just for one show, you are better off watching by other means.
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-23 02:42:22
September 23 2015 02:42 GMT
#11706
On September 23 2015 11:19 onlywonderboy wrote:
Rivals of Aether went into early access today. Sure looks a lot like Smash. Probably better than Smash 4

Looks like a simpler brawl+. Why in world would you remove teching?
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-23 02:45:23
September 23 2015 02:43 GMT
#11707
On September 23 2015 11:30 ketchup wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 10:58 Requizen wrote:
On September 23 2015 10:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Question: anyone here seen Sense8 and can give me their review?

Been considering picking up Netflix to watch it but uh, not sure if wurf.

Netflix totally wurf. I don't even watch regular TV aside from a handful of series that I record.


People repeat this waayyyy too often. Netflix isn't for everyone, and I don't honestly believe they update with enough variety to be worth.

Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 10:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Question: anyone here seen Sense8 and can give me their review?

Been considering picking up Netflix to watch it but uh, not sure if wurf.


Sense8 is pretty cool. It has potential for their characters to be engaging. There are some pretty amazing visual shots, which makes up for some of the pacing issues. I hope the second season is a lot better.

Really, I don't think Netflix is worth picking up just for one show. That applies for any show you want to watch on netflix. If you wanted just for one show, you are better off watching by other means.

Luckily Netflix also has House of Cards, Bojack Horesman, Orange if the New Black, and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt (in terms of original programming. I also heard their new show Narcos is really good). They get a lot of crap for not putting out enough new content, but if you've never had Netflix before it's easily worth paying for a few months and watching what you want. Then if you run out of content you can just stop paying.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 23 2015 02:47 GMT
#11708
Netflix also has Daredevil, which is so fucking worth.

The variety is straight up worth it for me. We've watched some Chinese flicks, some Euro things, we're binging Person of Interest, she loves Documentaries... Sure you can get all that through cable and OnDemand, but it's clunky and often behind further paywalls. I'm thinking of cutting Cable completely.
It's your boy Guzma!
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 23 2015 03:11 GMT
#11709
Daredevil was impressively awesome.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
TheHumanSensation
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada1210 Posts
September 23 2015 03:31 GMT
#11710
On September 23 2015 11:30 ketchup wrote:
Really, I don't think Netflix is worth picking up just for one show. That applies for any show you want to watch on netflix. If you wanted just for one show, you are better off watching by other means.


I'd agree with this, but also generally say that Netflix is a better deal than most anything else out there.

Also, I don't use Netflix, but do subscribe to the WWE Network, which costs more and only offers wrestling and wrestling accessories. I use it enough to feel good about the money spent, though.
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
September 23 2015 03:38 GMT
#11711
On September 23 2015 12:31 TheHumanSensation wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 11:30 ketchup wrote:
Really, I don't think Netflix is worth picking up just for one show. That applies for any show you want to watch on netflix. If you wanted just for one show, you are better off watching by other means.


I'd agree with this, but also generally say that Netflix is a better deal than most anything else out there.

Also, I don't use Netflix, but do subscribe to the WWE Network, which costs more and only offers wrestling and wrestling accessories. I use it enough to feel good about the money spent, though.

If you care enough to watch all the PPV stuff WWE Network seems like a no brainer.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 23 2015 03:42 GMT
#11712
On September 23 2015 12:38 onlywonderboy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 12:31 TheHumanSensation wrote:
On September 23 2015 11:30 ketchup wrote:
Really, I don't think Netflix is worth picking up just for one show. That applies for any show you want to watch on netflix. If you wanted just for one show, you are better off watching by other means.


I'd agree with this, but also generally say that Netflix is a better deal than most anything else out there.

Also, I don't use Netflix, but do subscribe to the WWE Network, which costs more and only offers wrestling and wrestling accessories. I use it enough to feel good about the money spent, though.

If you care enough to watch all the PPV stuff WWE Network seems like a no brainer.

Oh god. My roommate got super into wrestling after Summer Slam because Amell did a celebrity match. Now he's been binge watching since 2014's Wrestlmania to catch up on recent storylines to better understand what's going on when he watches current stuff with a mutual friend.

It's the most bizzare instant infatuation with a topic I've ever seen.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
September 23 2015 03:44 GMT
#11713
The last tense few minutes of a eBay auction. MUST GET MODELS.
It's your boy Guzma!
AlterKot
Profile Blog Joined January 2014
Poland7525 Posts
September 23 2015 11:02 GMT
#11714
On September 23 2015 12:42 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 12:38 onlywonderboy wrote:
On September 23 2015 12:31 TheHumanSensation wrote:
On September 23 2015 11:30 ketchup wrote:
Really, I don't think Netflix is worth picking up just for one show. That applies for any show you want to watch on netflix. If you wanted just for one show, you are better off watching by other means.


I'd agree with this, but also generally say that Netflix is a better deal than most anything else out there.

Also, I don't use Netflix, but do subscribe to the WWE Network, which costs more and only offers wrestling and wrestling accessories. I use it enough to feel good about the money spent, though.

If you care enough to watch all the PPV stuff WWE Network seems like a no brainer.

Oh god. My roommate got super into wrestling after Summer Slam because Amell did a celebrity match. Now he's been binge watching since 2014's Wrestlmania to catch up on recent storylines to better understand what's going on when he watches current stuff with a mutual friend.

It's the most bizzare instant infatuation with a topic I've ever seen.

As far as anectodal evidence goes, both me and one friend did exact same thing - randomly discovered wrestling (before this year all I knew about it was that "it's fake") and it instantly became one of the biggest hobbies (for me only League is bigger). Although I spent all year trying different promotions and from what I can tell it was pretty much the best time to get into wrestling (especially with Lucha Underground), I'm not sure how long would I last if I only watched WWE :p

Speaking of which, LUCHA UNDERGROUND IS GETTING SECOND SEASON HYPE

As far as WWE goes, Night of Champions was actually the first time since I started watching that I was really turned off from WWE. Like, I literally didn't care what happens next evening on Raw, or how the story will go, or anything really - I only watched Paige's, Natalya's and New Day's segments and I feel like that's all I want from WWE right now. On the other hand, I recently got really hooked with Pro Wrestling Guerrilla so catching up on that is currently the priority.

Also, I'm pretty sure even if you're a Network subscriber you still have to pay for PPVs? Or did that change and they were only refering to price of subscription with their "9.99" segments?
Americans don't like to use unblockables, it is considered not honest. You press a button at the wrong time and hit the other person, you are random, not a top player. You DP Sim's far fierce, it is random and not honest.
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
September 23 2015 11:42 GMT
#11715
H's known about wreslting, he's casually watched it in the past. He is literally going through everything, not just pay per view. Ever Raw, every Smackdown, every wahtever else they do now.
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-23 13:47:42
September 23 2015 13:30 GMT
#11716
Today in Business Intelligence:

approximating distance between two Latitude/Longitudes for use with GeoTagging

edit - shit, I'm actually getting pretty excited about this experiment
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
September 23 2015 13:58 GMT
#11717
On September 23 2015 08:41 Eppa! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 08:32 TheYango wrote:
WoW's actually a perfect example of what I described in a later post: where Blizzard got lucky and did something amazing initially, then proceeded to screw up and squander everything good about their game because they didn't have a solid grasp on WHY it was good.

Vanilla was great for hard core crowd, and people that where ignorant (compared to how people are today) and all the shitty parts of the game where not an issue because people sucked. Endgame (strongest part of vanilla) was baaaaaaaaad in so many ways but the sense of exploration made people forget/gloss over it.

If vanilla was released today it would have been seen as crap except for the hardcore fanatics that love 40 man.


"If X was released today it would be seen as crap" can be said of a lot of milestone games though.

TheYango isn't saying that Vanilla was perfect, but that Blizzard didn't understand the elements of their game which made it compelling. As Blizzard attempted to improve the game they proceeded to "fix" problems and nonproblems alike as a result of their ignorance.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
September 23 2015 14:17 GMT
#11718
On September 23 2015 22:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Today in Business Intelligence:

approximating distance between two Latitude/Longitudes for use with GeoTagging

edit - shit, I'm actually getting pretty excited about this experiment

Wouldn't you just do sqrt((La1-La2)*40k/360 + (Lo1-Lo2)*40k/360), as long as you take into account that if La1-La2 > 180, you invert them.

Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-23 14:30:42
September 23 2015 14:26 GMT
#11719
On September 23 2015 23:17 killerdog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 22:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Today in Business Intelligence:

approximating distance between two Latitude/Longitudes for use with GeoTagging

edit - shit, I'm actually getting pretty excited about this experiment

Wouldn't you just do sqrt((La1-La2)*40k/360 + (Lo1-Lo2)*40k/360), as long as you take into account that if La1-La2 > 180, you invert them.



I assumed it's only 2 points not 4 points. Either way you just create the vectors and do vector addition which'll give you the straight line vector between the points iirc. Been awhile since I've done simple vector calc lol. That's if the frame of reference is the same though. I assume it is with GeoTagging...
killerdog
Profile Joined February 2010
Denmark6522 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-09-23 14:44:02
September 23 2015 14:42 GMT
#11720
On September 23 2015 23:26 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2015 23:17 killerdog wrote:
On September 23 2015 22:30 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Today in Business Intelligence:

approximating distance between two Latitude/Longitudes for use with GeoTagging

edit - shit, I'm actually getting pretty excited about this experiment

Wouldn't you just do sqrt((La1-La2)*40k/360 + (Lo1-Lo2)*40k/360), as long as you take into account that if La1-La2 > 180, you invert them.



I assumed it's only 2 points not 4 points. Either way you just create the vectors and do vector addition which'll give you the straight line vector between the points iirc. Been awhile since I've done simple vector calc lol. That's if the frame of reference is the same though. I assume it is with GeoTagging...

Every point has a latitude and a longtitude, so if you have two points you should have Latitude1Longitude1 and Latitude2Longitude2 no?

Shouldn't be necessary to do any more then that since by definition latitude and longitude are at a right angle to each other
Prev 1 584 585 586 587 588 1885 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 27m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2279
Shuttle 1390
Mini 667
EffOrt 565
Light 374
Soulkey 292
Rush 291
Larva 231
Snow 163
hero 115
[ Show more ]
Mind 92
Hyun 77
sorry 67
Pusan 53
Stork 48
Killer 25
ToSsGirL 25
Trap 20
Rock 18
soO 18
Hm[arnc] 17
Yoon 17
JYJ 16
Bishop 14
Free 14
Sacsri 13
Dota 2
Gorgc4958
qojqva2184
syndereN330
monkeys_forever259
BananaSlamJamma159
Counter-Strike
x6flipin238
allub108
jkaem78
Heroes of the Storm
crisheroes475
Trikslyr4
Other Games
singsing1977
Liquid`RaSZi1179
FrodaN993
B2W.Neo936
Lowko385
byalli344
DeMusliM297
XaKoH 202
Liquid`VortiX164
ArmadaUGS137
Beastyqt99
Mew2King97
QueenE90
KnowMe48
ViBE38
Railgan28
Fuzer 1
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV153
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 36
lovetv 11
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2066
• Jankos1910
• TFBlade559
Other Games
• Shiphtur187
Upcoming Events
3D!Clan Event
27m
The PondCast
17h 57m
KCM Race Survival
17h 57m
WardiTV Invitational
19h 57m
OSC
1d 6h
ArT vs MindelVK
MiniZergUA vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
Ultimate Battle
1d 19h
OSC
2 days
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
IPSL
3 days
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
3 days
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
IPSL
4 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
BSL
4 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-09
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 951
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.