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United States47024 Posts
See, the thing is, I've just literally never felt like learning Surf or Waterfall was a limitation of any sort. What you describe is true of the other HMs, but with the water HMs, the water Pokemon of a particular generation have to be particularly terrible if I don't have 2+ Pokemon I'm ready to teach Surf/Waterfall to by the time I get them in any game (particularly before Nintendo started adding Water Pulse to more Pokemons' learnsets and a lot of water Pokemon stopped at Water Gun as their best STAB attack). It's never been "ugh, I need to make room for Surf", but "finally, I can use Surf".
If every HM was good enough for that, I wouldn't care at all about it being "forced" or not. I get what you're saying, I just don't think it would matter at all if the HMs were all decent moves. The only reason anyone cares about being forced to carry HMs around all the time is cuz the HM moves are bad. If they weren't, no one would give a shit.
On December 14 2016 04:06 PrinceXizor wrote:
I mean you don't need to make them good. just acceptable enough for the 4th move on a pokemon right? unless they changed that limit too. i dunno havent played pokemon in a long long time
Sure. 60 power moves with high PP count are often irrelevant to endgame/postgame, but for most of the maingame, it's actually pretty nice to have a moderately powerful STAB move that has more uses (e.g. Psybeam, Water Pulse, Flame Wheel, etc.). You don't need an 80-100 power move to OHKO random encounters/trainer battles, and not running out after 10-15 uses is really convenient.
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Oh lord that tracer one. I was saving my 3000 coins for Zen skin but dam...
When does it end? Going to be awhile until I can play that kind of game.
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On December 14 2016 05:38 TheYango wrote:
See, the thing is, I've just literally never felt like learning Surf or Waterfall was a limitation of any sort. What you describe is true of the other HMs, but with the water HMs, the water Pokemon of a particular generation have to be particularly terrible if I don't have 2+ Pokemon I'm ready to teach Surf/Waterfall to by the time I get them in any game (particularly before Nintendo started adding Water Pulse to more Pokemons' learnsets and a lot of water Pokemon stopped at Water Gun as their best STAB attack). It's never been "ugh, I need to make room for Surf", but "finally, I can use Surf".
If every HM was good enough for that, I wouldn't care at all about it being "forced" or not.
If that works for you great, but:- The other HMs are still bad.
- I'd be annoyed even if they weren't.
Given Nintendo's glacial design policy toward Pokemon I doubt this is something that will ever change, but it's a rather vestigial and unnecessary feature that wouldn't be that hard to make palatable.
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United States15536 Posts
On December 14 2016 05:59 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2016 05:38 TheYango wrote:
See, the thing is, I've just literally never felt like learning Surf or Waterfall was a limitation of any sort. What you describe is true of the other HMs, but with the water HMs, the water Pokemon of a particular generation have to be particularly terrible if I don't have 2+ Pokemon I'm ready to teach Surf/Waterfall to by the time I get them in any game (particularly before Nintendo started adding Water Pulse to more Pokemons' learnsets and a lot of water Pokemon stopped at Water Gun as their best STAB attack). It's never been "ugh, I need to make room for Surf", but "finally, I can use Surf".
If every HM was good enough for that, I wouldn't care at all about it being "forced" or not. If that works for you great, but: - The other HMs are still bad.
- I'd be annoyed even if they weren't.
Given Nintendo's glacial design policy toward Pokemon I doubt this is something that will ever change, but it's a rather vestigial and unnecessary feature that wouldn't be that hard to make palatable.
I mean, I haven't gotten super far in Sun/Moon, but don't the Ride Pokemon replace all the HMs? Isn't this issue now resolved?
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No idea I'm still on X/Y.
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On December 14 2016 06:10 Ansibled wrote:
Is DotA still dead?
I mean I had fun last night. Yams, onegu, ood, and LT might not have. But I had more networth than yams did on mid razor as Techies. New techies is wonderful.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2842112378
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11589 Posts
DotA has been dead.
This patch failed to resuscitate.
I'll still enjoy the pro games though.
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On December 14 2016 06:15 Seuss wrote:
No idea I'm still on X/Y.
Basically they changed / fixed it this gen. The new system works / looks / feels better in basically every way, although it makes a bit of narrative confusion.
On December 14 2016 04:37 Seuss wrote:
The obvious original intent behind HM moves was to connect your Pokemon to the game beyond the battles. It's certainly more in the theme of the game to have your Pokemon cutting down bushes and flying you around than having you pick up a pair of limbcutters from the Cerulean City Hardware Store or charter a flight somewhere.
It doesn't have to be that way. We can still accomplish the goal of HMs without needing to impinge upon a player's ability to customize their team. There's no good reason to force decisions in this case.
On December 13 2016 23:50 Seuss wrote:
But you can have that novelty value without having it collide headfirst with the combat system. There are simple solutions...
It's an archaic system that was cute at first but once half your pokemon have subpar moves just so you can travel about it feels awful and should therefore be given the boot.
On December 14 2016 02:07 Seuss wrote:
I like moves best when they're optional. Things like Sweet Scent, Teleport, or Rock Smash where my ability to travel or access areas isn't affected, but I get a benefit or neat interaction regardless. Cut is a travesty because I'm minding my own business when OH LOOK A TREE and now I have to backtrack because I didn't bring a pokemon that knew or could learn Cut. Nevermind that I have a pokemon that's literally a sword, can't cut down this tiny sapling.
HM moves are artificial limitations on what pokemon I can use and what move setups I can run. Making the moves better doesn't change that, it just makes it more mandatory.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the sweet scent / teleport / dig kind of thing. I do like when overworld effects are part of the reason to pick a sub-optimal (for competitive combat) move, in the same vein of high PP and so-on, but it certainly didn't end up that way after a few generations.
I've seen it argued elsewhere (not in the context of HMs) that progressing through the main story in pokemon games is a form of choice / customization. Some players like to just stay in one area and do like beauty contests and stuff, or complete the pokedex, or just battle their friends, etc., and I think this has been pushed by a lot of NPCs in the games / enabled more over time. I think I'm ok with HMs and other moves being tied to overworld progression as long as overworld progression is a conscious decision, but it's certainly too tied up into most all of the possible goals of the game (like I can't buy all the clothes without progressing in the story). An example done fairly close to right imo would be false swipe being an excellent move for it's specific purpose, not super necessary, doesn't leak into other game goals, etc.
Maybe this is generally asking for too much of an open world concept, which is possibly just too much to ask of pokemon as-is.
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On December 14 2016 02:07 Seuss wrote:
I like moves best when they're optional. Things like Sweet Scent, Teleport, or Rock Smash where my ability to travel or access areas isn't affected, but I get a benefit or neat interaction regardless. Cut is a travesty because I'm minding my own business when OH LOOK A TREE and now I have to backtrack because I didn't bring a pokemon that knew or could learn Cut. Nevermind that I have a pokemon that's literally a sword, can't cut down this tiny sapling.
HM moves are artificial limitations on what pokemon I can use and what move setups I can run. Making the moves better doesn't change that, it just makes it more mandatory.
The last time, afaik, that Cut was needed to finish the story was gen5.
On December 14 2016 05:59 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2016 05:38 TheYango wrote:
See, the thing is, I've just literally never felt like learning Surf or Waterfall was a limitation of any sort. What you describe is true of the other HMs, but with the water HMs, the water Pokemon of a particular generation have to be particularly terrible if I don't have 2+ Pokemon I'm ready to teach Surf/Waterfall to by the time I get them in any game (particularly before Nintendo started adding Water Pulse to more Pokemons' learnsets and a lot of water Pokemon stopped at Water Gun as their best STAB attack). It's never been "ugh, I need to make room for Surf", but "finally, I can use Surf".
If every HM was good enough for that, I wouldn't care at all about it being "forced" or not. If that works for you great, but: - The other HMs are still bad.
- I'd be annoyed even if they weren't.
Given Nintendo's glacial design policy toward Pokemon I doubt this is something that will ever change, but it's a rather vestigial and unnecessary feature that wouldn't be that hard to make palatable.
Nintendo doesn't make the Pokemon games, only publish them.
I'm just confused why they didn't make Rock Smash Brick Break in gen3.
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United States15536 Posts
SECRET SANTA MESSAGES ARE OUT!
Make merry ye holiday nerds.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On December 14 2016 15:29 Ketara wrote:
Why is dota dead?
Everyone's left to play the superior MOBA
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On December 14 2016 16:46 Scip wrote:Everyone's left to play the superior MOBA
Strange, whenever I log into 300 heroes I don't see any of you guys on...
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
On December 14 2016 18:57 GhandiEAGLE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2016 16:46 Scip wrote:On December 14 2016 15:29 Ketara wrote:
Why is dota dead? Everyone's left to play the superior MOBA Strange, whenever I log into 300 heroes I don't see any of you guys on...
WEOW fam, it's almost like you misunderstood me on purpose for a shitty comedic effect
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On December 14 2016 18:59 Scip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2016 18:57 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On December 14 2016 16:46 Scip wrote:On December 14 2016 15:29 Ketara wrote:
Why is dota dead? Everyone's left to play the superior MOBA Strange, whenever I log into 300 heroes I don't see any of you guys on... WEOW fam, it's almost like you misunderstood me on purpose for a shitty comedic effect
Scip it almost feels like your whole life is a series of misunderstandings that lead to shitty comedy, so you'd certainly have credibility on the matter :F
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Can you buy laptop sleeves for thicker laptops? Everything i see seems to be for notebooks/ultrabooks >.>
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If you need some background noise for today, Games Workshop is going to be streaming tabletop stuff for the next 6 hours or so, playing Age of Sigmar with commentary and discussing the game itself. Stream is here if interested.
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Some days in my line of work are crazy tedious, but some are just fun and super interesting.
Getting people's glaucoma under control, finding retinal issues, diagnosing Horner's syndrome was a big one.
/subtlehumblebrag
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On December 15 2016 05:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
Some days in my line of work are crazy tedious, but some are just fun and super interesting.
Getting people's glaucoma under control, finding retinal issues, diagnosing Horner's syndrome was a big one.
/subtlehumblebrag
My grandmother's glaucoma was diagnosed when she was visiting us and went to see my dads optician shop. They decided to do a bunch of tests with various equipment for lulz and randomly caught it really early, if that hadn't happened she's probably be blind by now 0.0
Also my granddad had an operation today to place a lense inside his eye (which apparently they do without anesthesia while he's awake, wtf), then two hours later had to rush back because apparently his eye had 7 times the normal pressure inside it, so the doctor stabbed it with a needle repeatedly until the pressure went down to normal levels.
Optometry is seriously voodoo sometimes
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EPT
