EPTThe LiquidLegends Lounge - Page 1549
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 13 2016 10:59 AsmodeusXI wrote: I'm still absolutely flabbergasted that HMs couldn't be overwritten for quite a while there. I mean, I like the Sun/Moon method of dealing with them (i.e. removing them) but how in the hell could they have thought that was a good idea even as far out as X/Y? Ah well, all's well that ends well. Presumably it was supposed to be a tradeoff for the fact that they were unlimited (while TMs were one-use--a questionable choice in its own right) that became obsolete when TMs became unlimited in Gen 5. | ||
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On December 13 2016 11:01 Seuss wrote: Needing specific moves in order to traverse the world is dumb and should have been left behind when Pokemon was still on the original Gameboy. I think it has novelty value, differentiating pokemon from other jrpgs where you just get an item allowing you to pass various overworld obstacles. The pokeflute, spray bottle, etc. meant that they still used the latter, though. I do really like ride pokemon, even if I have a rideable pokemon in my box way before I gain the ability to ride it on the overworld. I think the inability to overwrite HM moves helps to avoid kids from overwriting them for a cool move, and then having to lose that move 5 seconds later to keep progressing on the overworld. It's a bit silly and specific, but the games have a lot of similar things in them to prevent kids from making terrible accidents. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
In continuing with spanning various genres each week, I give you: + Show Spoiler + Bonus: The history behind this meme is actually really uplifting. Thank you 6ah for introducing me. (I also remember playing You Are a Pirate for my raids back in the day.) | ||
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Karis Vas Ryaar
United States4396 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 13 2016 12:04 TheHumanSensation wrote: I think the inability to overwrite HM moves helps to avoid kids from overwriting them for a cool move, and then having to lose that move 5 seconds later to keep progressing on the overworld. It's a bit silly and specific, but the games have a lot of similar things in them to prevent kids from making terrible accidents. Now that I think about it, the more relevant concern is that since Gen 1 had limited inventory and you actually stashed stuff in your PC, overwrite-able HMs would mean that it's possible to get permanently stuck by overwriting an HM in a segment where you needed the HM to leave, and not having it in your inventory to re-learn. Once we got a sectioned inventory where TMs/HMs were in their own inventory tab that could store all of them and you never stashed items, that concern became obsolete because you have all HMs with you at all times. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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TheHumanSensation
Canada1210 Posts
On December 13 2016 16:54 TheYango wrote: Now that I think about it, the more relevant concern is that since Gen 1 had limited inventory and you actually stashed stuff in your PC, overwrite-able HMs would mean that it's possible to get permanently stuck by overwriting an HM in a segment where you needed the HM to leave, and not having it in your inventory to re-learn. Once we got a sectioned inventory where TMs/HMs were in their own inventory tab that could store all of them and you never stashed items, that concern became obsolete because you have all HMs with you at all times. Ah, that makes sense. I was struggling to come up with actual game-ending scenarios, since there's apparently also HM restrictions on releasing pokemon. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
HYPE | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Edit: actually that one's prob better when you can't get the lyrics. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On December 13 2016 12:04 TheHumanSensation wrote: I think it has novelty value, differentiating pokemon from other jrpgs where you just get an item allowing you to pass various overworld obstacles. The pokeflute, spray bottle, etc. meant that they still used the latter, though. I do really like ride pokemon, even if I have a rideable pokemon in my box way before I gain the ability to ride it on the overworld. I think the inability to overwrite HM moves helps to avoid kids from overwriting them for a cool move, and then having to lose that move 5 seconds later to keep progressing on the overworld. It's a bit silly and specific, but the games have a lot of similar things in them to prevent kids from making terrible accidents. But you can have that novelty value without having it collide headfirst with the combat system. There are simple solutions like:
I could go on pretty much forever. It's an archaic system that was cute at first but once half your pokemon have subpar moves just so you can travel about it feels awful and should therefore be given the boot. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Honestly the biggest thing that necessitates HM slaves is that ouside of the water HMs, the rest are usually just total garbage. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
HM moves are artificial limitations on what pokemon I can use and what move setups I can run. Making the moves better doesn't change that, it just makes it more mandatory. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On December 14 2016 03:35 TheYango wrote: Concealing forced decisions by putting them behind obvious optimal ones is pretty common practice in modern game design anyway. You trick the player into forgetting that their decision is forced and give them a false sense of agency by making the deal look good enough that they wouldn't not take it anyway. This is no different from what other games do, it just looks bad because we have a birds-eye view of all the preceding problems with HM moves. Sure, but common practice or no you need to stop and ask, "What are we accomplishing by doing this?" The obvious original intent behind HM moves was to connect your Pokemon to the game beyond the battles. It's certainly more in the theme of the game to have your Pokemon cutting down bushes and flying you around than having you pick up a pair of limbcutters from the Cerulean City Hardware Store or charter a flight somewhere. That's all well and good, but as it stands Pokemon is a game about customization. You pick the 6 pokemon for your team, you name them, you choose their moves, and you sometimes go nuts trying to breed them. HMs are an artificial and unnecessary restriction on this aspect of the game. Which Pokemon and moves I can pick are warped by HMs in a way that goes against the spirit of the game. It doesn't have to be that way. We can still accomplish the goal of HMs without needing to impinge upon a player's ability to customize their team. There's no good reason to force decisions in this case. | ||
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