On August 31 2013 05:07 mordek wrote: I just started using cockatrice a few weeks ago. I used to do a lot of drafts back in middle/high school. And man does it make you feel old when you see the release dates of those sets O.O
I started playing during Revised Edition, lol. The NEWEST cards I have are circa 2000.
You also want cards that are good by themselves. Slivers are all about being weak alone but really crazy if you get everything in play. You have the problem where against strong Aggro decks they outpower you fast and quickly. Mid-range just plays bigger stuff and trades 1-for-1 and then you've exhausted all your key assets and they keep going. Control will 1-for-1 you early and stop you from snowballing and have Wrath effects to wipe the board if things get too dicey.
Also, because Slivers have that "everything on the board" snowball nature, you have to commit and overextend really hard. Think of it like pushing lane super hard to exert pressure and then mid lane roams and kills you. That's like getting wiped and you have no plan B.
They're definitely fun and cool. But they're not competitive unless something super broken is published which won't. Synergy-based decks (such as Creature Tribal decks like Slivers or Elves) are typically just not very good in Eternal formats, and need very strong cards to be powerful in Standard. In Casual formats like EDH they're great since it's all about crazy snowballing but if you're "that Sliver guy" you're going to have a massive target on your forehead.
You also want cards that are good by themselves. Slivers are all about being weak alone but really crazy if you get everything in play. You have the problem where against strong Aggro decks they outpower you fast and quickly. Mid-range just plays bigger stuff and trades 1-for-1 and then you've exhausted all your key assets and they keep going. Control will 1-for-1 you early and stop you from snowballing and have Wrath effects to wipe the board if things get too dicey.
Also, because Slivers have that "everything on the board" snowball nature, you have to commit and overextend really hard. Think of it like pushing lane super hard to exert pressure and then mid lane roams and kills you. That's like getting wiped and you have no plan B.
They're definitely fun and cool. But they're not competitive unless something super broken is published which won't. Synergy-based decks (such as Creature Tribal decks like Slivers or Elves) are typically just not very good in Eternal formats, and need very strong cards to be powerful in Standard. In Casual formats like EDH they're great since it's all about crazy snowballing but if you're "that Sliver guy" you're going to have a massive target on your forehead.
With slivers coming back in to Standard in 2014, I think that slivers might have a place there, primarily in green/red/white aggro-beatdown decks with some guild support. You have a 1 mana first strike sliver, 2 mana for +1/1 to all (and a +3/3 to all is a strong finisher), a haste sliver - theyre all not terrible on their own for aggro decks and if your opponent cant keep the board clean then theyll get overrun pretty easily. Meanwhile you have the standard threats of running a green red like nukes and stuff.
Problem is that ur standard red green and/or white aggro decks are still just better without slivers. The m14 slivers were reasonably strong but they did nothing to really shore up slivers' weaknesses. The other problem is that with the exception of the mana slivers they're generally not great in non-sliver tribe decks.
Typically, constructed successful tribal decks like elves (with glimpse), faerie, and merfolk fit into other archetypes outside of just tribal/beatdown. For example, tribal elves were combo decks that could combo out and basically play their whole deck turn 2 or 3 before glimpse was banned. Merfolk decks are pretty strong aggro and/or control, but are strictly a tier 2 legacy archetype. Faeries were strong control/aggro before bitterblossom was banned.
Slivers seems doable in legacy as a fringe deck, definitely not a top contender but you're also definitely not going to embarass yourself playing it. Unlike countersliver of old, what seems to work best these days is to go full on 5 colors, all creatures and leaning heavily on the strength of vial, crystalline and 12x muscle sliver. It pushes the aggro concept of merfolk to the extreme but without the protection of force or daze.
This 3-1'd the daily a few days ago, its caleb's exact 75 for those who might care/know about this already + Show Spoiler +
4 Ancient Ziggurat 1 Breeding Pool 4 Cavern of Souls 3 City of Brass 4 Mutavault 1 Steam Vents 3 Tarnished Citadel 1 Temple Garden
On August 31 2013 12:44 Louuster wrote: Slivers seems doable in legacy as a fringe deck, definitely not a top contender but you're also definitely not going to embarass yourself playing it. Unlike countersliver of old, what seems to work best these days is to go full on 5 colors, all creatures and leaning heavily on the strength of vial, crystalline and 12x muscle sliver. It pushes the aggro concept of merfolk to the extreme but without the protection of force or daze.
This 3-1'd the daily a few days ago, its caleb's exact 75 for those who might care/know about this already + Show Spoiler +
4 Ancient Ziggurat 1 Breeding Pool 4 Cavern of Souls 3 City of Brass 4 Mutavault 1 Steam Vents 3 Tarnished Citadel 1 Temple Garden
Well I mean, if you can somehow get around the issue of board sweepers completely cripping you, slivers are quite strong when paired with Aether vials. As it is, Slivers will never be a tier 1 maybe not even a tier 2 deck. They're without a doubt very fun to play and you can definitely take down some FNMs with them. I just wouldn't expect them to be winning or even placing at any Pro Tours or w/e.
Slivers might work in legacy if you can get it to run similar to merfolk. The only problem is you won't really have access to all the counterspells merfolk has. But you do have all the big pumps you would need.
totally spent went the last 3 hours watching Step Up and Step Up 2. hip-hop dance is such a guilty pleasure.
the problem with slivers is there are many other absurdly powerful creatures that don't need 2 other creatures of the same type to break the power curve. I'm pretty sure if you can make a more powerful creature aggro deck that's not sliver-based.
I've been trying to make them work in standard only, not really wanting to dig through the last 10 years of cards since I don't even know the name of the blocks :/ And in standard, they're very hit-or-miss tbh, and I have trouble finding a good mana curve (there are only 4 slivers costing 2 mana or less, one being the vigilance sliver).
One game though, I got pretty much the best start I've ever had. Turn 1 striking sliver, Turn 2 Mana sliver, Turn 3 Haste Sliver, And well turn 4 I played all my hand ofc... But you don't get such openings every games ><
EPT
