EPT
Haha I usually studiously avoid this but I have lapsed this time!
[GSL 2025] Code S Season 1 - RO4 and Grand Finals - Page 3
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26496 Posts
Haha I usually studiously avoid this but I have lapsed this time! | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26496 Posts
On May 17 2025 10:32 Blitzball04 wrote: I agree with that. It was frustrating to watch since all cure did was pulling the boys over and over. Amazing herO was able to keep composed in game 7. It wasn’t looking at the beginning of the push But seriously pull the boys? Fuck that It’s a viable move, and Cure has some pretty fiendish pushes. I think it’s more his call than necessarily indicative of the overall state of the matchup. I mean Clem doesn’t employ it a lot, and he’s doing OK | ||
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Gescom
Canada3509 Posts
On May 17 2025 18:01 bulldozer06701 wrote: Terran's late game sucks now in both tvz and tvp so nothing to do but pull the boys and try to do one big push. What else should Cure have done? Forfeit? Builld shitty thors or BCs or something? And yet we were very close to having a TvT final. I'm going to assume Cure is simply practicing half as much as he was 2y ago and couldn't be taxed to manage multi-prong harass. I should go back and watch the Ro12 games that I skipped... | ||
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dysenterymd
1250 Posts
On May 17 2025 23:37 WombaT wrote: It’s a viable move, and Cure has some pretty fiendish pushes. I think it’s more his call than necessarily indicative of the overall state of the matchup. I mean Clem doesn’t employ it a lot, and he’s doing OK I'm not sure how much we should read into herO/Serral/Clem games for balance right now becuase they're so far ahead of their peers. Clem's insane multitasking lets him do things in TvP nobody else can, Serral's spell caster control lets him win ZvP lategame when nobody else can, and herO does herO things. If we think herO is a better player than Cure (I do), even under normal balance Cure might all-in a lot. The fact that Cure pulled the same builds against Classic so much, who I would consider more of Cure's peer, says a lot more. I do think Terran late-game issues are more down to Toss getting so far ahead in middle game than an inherent problem with Terran late game composition. I don't think we should go overboard with toss nerfs though, since this is the first time in ages that Protoss has looked strong, and I don't think PvZ or PvT are grossly imbalanced or anything. Something like reducing energy recharge to 75 instead of 100, or bumping up the cooldown slightly, might be enough. | ||
Poopi
France12911 Posts
On May 17 2025 17:35 RandomPlayer wrote: Sc2 has been evolving for 15 years to.. rushing with t1 units and scvs because you can't win otherwise.. TvP really needs a fix. I mean if you get pro terrans using protoss instead of just playing the mirror and actually beating other top terrans, yeah no wonder the match-up will be timing pushes and/or all-ins. | ||
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Topin
Peru10110 Posts
in the first semifinal i thought Gumi was "throwing" the game going mech i was really surprised it worked. herO vs Cure g2 was so exciting i coudnt believe what was happening. i dont blame Cure for trying to end some of the games pulling the boys and at the end of the day it made it exciting to watch his excution and herOs defence. | ||
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chrusher97
Canada811 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33584 Posts
On May 17 2025 17:40 Elentos wrote: Watching herO work his way through Cure's bullshit and finally solving his bio/tank all-in gives the series character and makes it memorable though. Imo Cure realized 1 game in he was not gonna cut it against herO in a straight-up game. This wasn't the SC2 everyone was hoping to see, but it was way more exciting than most GSL finals. I think people don't really mentally separate finals with great individual games and finals with great tension/an overall story. Like, the 2014 Life vs sOs BlizzCon 7-gamer had maybe ONE solid back-and-forth game, but it's remembered as one of the most exciting ever because of the general flow of the series that led to game seven. It's really rare that you get a finals like Mvp vs Squirtle or MMA-DRG, where you have a handful of memorable games as high spots in a series that also have a great flow to it. | ||
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Gescom
Canada3509 Posts
On May 18 2025 13:20 chrusher97 wrote: Cure played perfect imo... TvP is impossible right now so all korean terrans are just doing some form of 2 base allin. What a lame narrative. Yikes. PvT was 15-14 through all the matches this GSL season. "So impossible" | ||
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RandomPlayer
Russian Federation400 Posts
On May 18 2025 16:11 Gescom wrote: What a lame narrative. Yikes. PvT was 15-14 through all the matches this GSL season. "So impossible" He meant that it's impossible to win tvp in a normal game, as the terran falls behind quickly. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26496 Posts
On May 18 2025 14:30 Waxangel wrote: I think people don't really mentally separate finals with great individual games and finals with great tension/an overall story. Like, the 2014 Life vs sOs BlizzCon 7-gamer had maybe ONE solid back-and-forth game, but it's remembered as one of the most exciting ever because of the general flow of the series that led to game seven. It's really rare that you get a finals like Mvp vs Squirtle or MMA-DRG, where you have a handful of memorable games as high spots in a series that also have a great flow to it. Yeah this is a great point | ||
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DarkGamer
Germany330 Posts
what i dont understand is, why toss gets so far ahead in the mid to lategame in income beside both players macro on the same level? the one macro game in the finals showed that very good and i think that is the problem in the balance. otherwise it seems fine. | ||
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Elentos
55568 Posts
On May 18 2025 14:30 Waxangel wrote: I think people don't really mentally separate finals with great individual games and finals with great tension/an overall story. Like, the 2014 Life vs sOs BlizzCon 7-gamer had maybe ONE solid back-and-forth game, but it's remembered as one of the most exciting ever because of the general flow of the series that led to game seven. It's really rare that you get a finals like Mvp vs Squirtle or MMA-DRG, where you have a handful of memorable games as high spots in a series that also have a great flow to it. Tell me about it. I've been rewatching tons of old finals recently out of curiosity, and most of them are just not good. A lot of them don't have an engaging flow and no fun games. | ||
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tigera6
3481 Posts
On May 19 2025 14:23 DarkGamer wrote: i liked the finals. what i dont understand is, why toss gets so far ahead in the mid to lategame in income beside both players macro on the same level? the one macro game in the finals showed that very good and i think that is the problem in the balance. otherwise it seems fine. Toss can throw their entire army to the frontline and expand like crazy thanks to Battery/Cannon and Warp Gate + Recall, Terran cant afford to over-expand without leaving hole for zealot run by, DT sneaking in and Warp Prism backstab. I think the issue also occur in the tech of Terran in TvP, all the nerfs on Ghost taking its tolls and they are not as effective as before. Sky Terran need to be built up the counts to be effective, but its impossible to do that with lower base count and continuously defending Protoss attack. The only way that Terran can win a standard macro game in current patch is either multi-prong attacks or somehow catch the entire Protoss army and then immediately attack. | ||
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SharkStarcraft
Austria2256 Posts
Toss BARELY wins 1 tournament in what feels like 100 years and everyone is calling for nerfs. Time for the Zerg Cabal to cook up some more nerfs - perhaps removing the cannon and the shield battery would be a great start to satisfy the broader public  As compensation I would suggest -5 seconds research time on ground armor level 2. | ||
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Heartland
Sweden24600 Posts
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