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On June 03 2024 06:55 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 06:49 Argonauta wrote:On June 03 2024 06:47 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:38 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I do hope that Maru can think about why he lost to Serral at Kato and Dallas and come back in better shape for EWC.
On the other hand I do think that Maru is probably unable to practice with Zergs of Serral's caliber. Dark, Solar, Ragnarok are obviously not on Serral's level. I think back in 2021 or earlier, playing all those games vs Rogue and Dark (who was better back then imo) was good practice for playing against Serral. And if that is part of the problem, I don't really see a way to solve it. He's on a team with Solar, and pretty sure Reynor would be happy to spar with him as long as he's in Korea. If that isn't enough practice, I guess just pay Solar and Dark to archon mode against him  I mean... Oliveira doesn't have any Zerg worth playing against at all in China, and was far far sharper. Serral looked extremely vulnerable to the 8-rax. Maru took 1 attempt at an 8-rax and it was his halfhearted backup plan and looked absolutely awful. You aren't going to tell me that Maru cannot 8-rax. It's just Serral living in Maru's head at this point. The desk and Olivera both said multiple times how olivera and serral practise together. Doesn't that kinda prove the point? Oliveira apparently needs to practice against Serral with some kind of ridiculous ping for both of them to get decent practice against hte other race. Bit weird for Serral (but maybe none of the Euro terrans want to play custom games, or it's his version of community service), but Oliveira has Dark on his team, but there's not really anybody else. Rex is probably the best zerg near China, and that is... not great
oh yeah, I think for Maru playing more games vs Serral wirthout such high stakes will help wonders to alleviate the mental block and finally play at his 100%
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On June 03 2024 06:57 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 06:55 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:49 Argonauta wrote:On June 03 2024 06:47 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:38 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I do hope that Maru can think about why he lost to Serral at Kato and Dallas and come back in better shape for EWC.
On the other hand I do think that Maru is probably unable to practice with Zergs of Serral's caliber. Dark, Solar, Ragnarok are obviously not on Serral's level. I think back in 2021 or earlier, playing all those games vs Rogue and Dark (who was better back then imo) was good practice for playing against Serral. And if that is part of the problem, I don't really see a way to solve it. He's on a team with Solar, and pretty sure Reynor would be happy to spar with him as long as he's in Korea. If that isn't enough practice, I guess just pay Solar and Dark to archon mode against him I mean... Oliveira doesn't have any Zerg worth playing against at all in China, and was far far sharper. Serral looked extremely vulnerable to the 8-rax. Maru took 1 attempt at an 8-rax and it was his halfhearted backup plan and looked absolutely awful. You aren't going to tell me that Maru cannot 8-rax. It's just Serral living in Maru's head at this point. The desk and Olivera both said multiple times how olivera and serral practise together. Doesn't that kinda prove the point? Oliveira apparently needs to practice against Serral with some kind of ridiculous ping for both of them to get decent practice against hte other race. Bit weird for Serral (but maybe none of the Euro terrans want to play custom games, or it's his version of community service), but Oliveira has Dark on his team, but there's not really anybody else. Rex is probably the best zerg near China, and that is... not great oh yeah, I think for Maru playing more games vs Serral wirthout such high stakes will help wonders to alleviate the mental block and finally play at his 100%
For sure Maru needs to find a way to play Serral on a daily basis
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On June 03 2024 07:00 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 06:57 Argonauta wrote:On June 03 2024 06:55 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:49 Argonauta wrote:On June 03 2024 06:47 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:38 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I do hope that Maru can think about why he lost to Serral at Kato and Dallas and come back in better shape for EWC.
On the other hand I do think that Maru is probably unable to practice with Zergs of Serral's caliber. Dark, Solar, Ragnarok are obviously not on Serral's level. I think back in 2021 or earlier, playing all those games vs Rogue and Dark (who was better back then imo) was good practice for playing against Serral. And if that is part of the problem, I don't really see a way to solve it. He's on a team with Solar, and pretty sure Reynor would be happy to spar with him as long as he's in Korea. If that isn't enough practice, I guess just pay Solar and Dark to archon mode against him I mean... Oliveira doesn't have any Zerg worth playing against at all in China, and was far far sharper. Serral looked extremely vulnerable to the 8-rax. Maru took 1 attempt at an 8-rax and it was his halfhearted backup plan and looked absolutely awful. You aren't going to tell me that Maru cannot 8-rax. It's just Serral living in Maru's head at this point. The desk and Olivera both said multiple times how olivera and serral practise together. Doesn't that kinda prove the point? Oliveira apparently needs to practice against Serral with some kind of ridiculous ping for both of them to get decent practice against hte other race. Bit weird for Serral (but maybe none of the Euro terrans want to play custom games, or it's his version of community service), but Oliveira has Dark on his team, but there's not really anybody else. Rex is probably the best zerg near China, and that is... not great oh yeah, I think for Maru playing more games vs Serral wirthout such high stakes will help wonders to alleviate the mental block and finally play at his 100% For sure Maru needs to find a way to play Serral on a daily basis
If Oli finds a way maru can do too.
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On June 03 2024 06:51 Waxangel wrote:I think it's pretty cool that ESL is doing career milestone trophies, but including EPT/DHM Europe is pretty dicey cause Oliveira is also at 10 if you include regionals. Obv there's some subjective lines you have to draw when you're handing out trophies like this (I think it's ridiculous that GomTV included their "world championship" as part of MVP's G5L), but it feels icky and bad optics to say only the EU regional "counts." Ofc they can just solve this by awarding Oliveira his own E10L trophy at the EWC 
Oliveira isn't white thus is irrelevant
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On June 03 2024 06:57 Argonauta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 06:55 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:49 Argonauta wrote:On June 03 2024 06:47 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:38 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I do hope that Maru can think about why he lost to Serral at Kato and Dallas and come back in better shape for EWC.
On the other hand I do think that Maru is probably unable to practice with Zergs of Serral's caliber. Dark, Solar, Ragnarok are obviously not on Serral's level. I think back in 2021 or earlier, playing all those games vs Rogue and Dark (who was better back then imo) was good practice for playing against Serral. And if that is part of the problem, I don't really see a way to solve it. He's on a team with Solar, and pretty sure Reynor would be happy to spar with him as long as he's in Korea. If that isn't enough practice, I guess just pay Solar and Dark to archon mode against him I mean... Oliveira doesn't have any Zerg worth playing against at all in China, and was far far sharper. Serral looked extremely vulnerable to the 8-rax. Maru took 1 attempt at an 8-rax and it was his halfhearted backup plan and looked absolutely awful. You aren't going to tell me that Maru cannot 8-rax. It's just Serral living in Maru's head at this point. The desk and Olivera both said multiple times how olivera and serral practise together. Doesn't that kinda prove the point? Oliveira apparently needs to practice against Serral with some kind of ridiculous ping for both of them to get decent practice against hte other race. Bit weird for Serral (but maybe none of the Euro terrans want to play custom games, or it's his version of community service), but Oliveira has Dark on his team, but there's not really anybody else. Rex is probably the best zerg near China, and that is... not great oh yeah, I think for Maru playing more games vs Serral wirthout such high stakes will help wonders to alleviate the mental block and finally play at his 100%
Maru about to bootcamp in Finland in ManyRegrets' house
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On June 03 2024 07:11 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 06:57 Argonauta wrote:On June 03 2024 06:55 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:49 Argonauta wrote:On June 03 2024 06:47 Acrofales wrote:On June 03 2024 06:38 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
I do hope that Maru can think about why he lost to Serral at Kato and Dallas and come back in better shape for EWC.
On the other hand I do think that Maru is probably unable to practice with Zergs of Serral's caliber. Dark, Solar, Ragnarok are obviously not on Serral's level. I think back in 2021 or earlier, playing all those games vs Rogue and Dark (who was better back then imo) was good practice for playing against Serral. And if that is part of the problem, I don't really see a way to solve it. He's on a team with Solar, and pretty sure Reynor would be happy to spar with him as long as he's in Korea. If that isn't enough practice, I guess just pay Solar and Dark to archon mode against him I mean... Oliveira doesn't have any Zerg worth playing against at all in China, and was far far sharper. Serral looked extremely vulnerable to the 8-rax. Maru took 1 attempt at an 8-rax and it was his halfhearted backup plan and looked absolutely awful. You aren't going to tell me that Maru cannot 8-rax. It's just Serral living in Maru's head at this point. The desk and Olivera both said multiple times how olivera and serral practise together. Doesn't that kinda prove the point? Oliveira apparently needs to practice against Serral with some kind of ridiculous ping for both of them to get decent practice against hte other race. Bit weird for Serral (but maybe none of the Euro terrans want to play custom games, or it's his version of community service), but Oliveira has Dark on his team, but there's not really anybody else. Rex is probably the best zerg near China, and that is... not great oh yeah, I think for Maru playing more games vs Serral wirthout such high stakes will help wonders to alleviate the mental block and finally play at his 100% Maru about to bootcamp in Finland in ManyRegrets' house
Lol yeah, Maru changing his ID to ManyRegrets and starting a team house for Koreans in Europe
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The ESL10 is sort of arbitrary, but I think it's being awarded for 10 offline victories? 4 WCS tournaments in 2018, 2 in 2019, 2 Katowice, and 2 ESL Masters. If it's just ESL tournaments Serral would have already won it with his 3 EU seasonal victories.
By those criterion, Oliveira has 1 and Special has 0.
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United States33686 Posts
On June 03 2024 07:13 dysenterymd wrote:
The ESL10 is sort of arbitrary, but I think it's being awarded for 10 offline victories? 4 WCS tournaments in 2018, 2 in 2019, 2 Katowice, and 2 ESL Masters. If it's just ESL tournaments Serral would have already won it with his 3 EU seasonal victories.
By those criterion, Oliveira has 1 and Special has 0.
no, it's only tournaments under ESL/DreamHack, both online and offline. Chobra listed all ten specifically during the presentation
3x EU regional champion (implied that this is DH/ESL only)
3x DH Masters Season champion
2x IEM Katowice champion
2x ESL Masters/Season champion
Regardless, Oliveira has 10+ under the same criteria, unless ESL explicitly says non-EU regionals are not real tournaments.
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Northern Ireland27305 Posts
On June 03 2024 07:07 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 06:51 Waxangel wrote:I think it's pretty cool that ESL is doing career milestone trophies, but including EPT/DHM Europe is pretty dicey cause Oliveira is also at 10 if you include regionals. Obv there's some subjective lines you have to draw when you're handing out trophies like this (I think it's ridiculous that GomTV included their "world championship" as part of MVP's G5L), but it feels icky and bad optics to say only the EU regional "counts." Ofc they can just solve this by awarding Oliveira his own E10L trophy at the EWC Oliveira isn't white thus is irrelevant
It’s for international tournaments though?
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On June 03 2024 07:17 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 07:13 dysenterymd wrote:
The ESL10 is sort of arbitrary, but I think it's being awarded for 10 offline victories? 4 WCS tournaments in 2018, 2 in 2019, 2 Katowice, and 2 ESL Masters. If it's just ESL tournaments Serral would have already won it with his 3 EU seasonal victories.
By those criterion, Oliveira has 1 and Special has 0. no, it's only tournaments under ESL/DreamHack, both online and offline. Chobra listed all ten specifically during the presentation Regardless, Oliveira has 10+ under the same criteria
Lol! Wait so do tournaments from 2018/2019 when Blizzard ran things not count? Because if they do Serral already won E10L.
Guess they just wanted to throw shade on the goat list.
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People acting a fool over the E10L trophy is funny. This community, man. Just savour the moment of an amazing player.
GG Serral and everyone who brought it.
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United States33686 Posts
On June 03 2024 07:19 Gescom wrote:
People acting a fool over the E10L trophy is funny. This community, man.
GG Serral and everyone who brought it.
They shoulda just made it a "GJ Serral" trophy, instead of putting up this pretense of objective standards
It's good to create traditions and celebrate your own history, but revealing you don't know your own history in the process is just embarrassing.
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On June 03 2024 07:19 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 07:17 Waxangel wrote:On June 03 2024 07:13 dysenterymd wrote:
The ESL10 is sort of arbitrary, but I think it's being awarded for 10 offline victories? 4 WCS tournaments in 2018, 2 in 2019, 2 Katowice, and 2 ESL Masters. If it's just ESL tournaments Serral would have already won it with his 3 EU seasonal victories.
By those criterion, Oliveira has 1 and Special has 0. no, it's only tournaments under ESL/DreamHack, both online and offline. Chobra listed all ten specifically during the presentation Regardless, Oliveira has 10+ under the same criteria Lol! Wait so do tournaments from 2018/2019 when Blizzard ran things not count? Because if they do Serral already won E10L. Guess they just wanted to throw shade on the goat list.
I'm surprised by how much impact the GOAT article series seems to have had on the community! I thought of it as a fun list that was one guy's opinion, but a lot of people seemed to think it was some kind of official endorsement or something from TL. And it might have even influenced ESL into creating this E10L thing.
Truly, Miz's articles are... the greatest GOAT list of all time.
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United States33686 Posts
On June 03 2024 07:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 07:19 dysenterymd wrote:On June 03 2024 07:17 Waxangel wrote:On June 03 2024 07:13 dysenterymd wrote:
The ESL10 is sort of arbitrary, but I think it's being awarded for 10 offline victories? 4 WCS tournaments in 2018, 2 in 2019, 2 Katowice, and 2 ESL Masters. If it's just ESL tournaments Serral would have already won it with his 3 EU seasonal victories.
By those criterion, Oliveira has 1 and Special has 0. no, it's only tournaments under ESL/DreamHack, both online and offline. Chobra listed all ten specifically during the presentation Regardless, Oliveira has 10+ under the same criteria Lol! Wait so do tournaments from 2018/2019 when Blizzard ran things not count? Because if they do Serral already won E10L. Guess they just wanted to throw shade on the goat list. I'm surprised by how much impact the GOAT article series seems to have had on the community! I thought of it as a fun list that was one guy's opinion, but a lot of people seemed to think it was some kind of official endorsement or something from TL. And it might have even influenced ESL into creating this E10L thing. Truly, Miz's articles are... the greatest GOAT list of all time.
Are we sure he's not just a compiler who racks up word count, but isn't actually the most dominant prose writer compared to stuchiu?
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great stuff this weekend .. plz no more srral maru finals xD .. semis id prefer
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United States1958 Posts
On June 03 2024 07:29 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 07:26 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On June 03 2024 07:19 dysenterymd wrote:On June 03 2024 07:17 Waxangel wrote:On June 03 2024 07:13 dysenterymd wrote:
The ESL10 is sort of arbitrary, but I think it's being awarded for 10 offline victories? 4 WCS tournaments in 2018, 2 in 2019, 2 Katowice, and 2 ESL Masters. If it's just ESL tournaments Serral would have already won it with his 3 EU seasonal victories.
By those criterion, Oliveira has 1 and Special has 0. no, it's only tournaments under ESL/DreamHack, both online and offline. Chobra listed all ten specifically during the presentation Regardless, Oliveira has 10+ under the same criteria Lol! Wait so do tournaments from 2018/2019 when Blizzard ran things not count? Because if they do Serral already won E10L. Guess they just wanted to throw shade on the goat list. I'm surprised by how much impact the GOAT article series seems to have had on the community! I thought of it as a fun list that was one guy's opinion, but a lot of people seemed to think it was some kind of official endorsement or something from TL. And it might have even influenced ESL into creating this E10L thing. Truly, Miz's articles are... the greatest GOAT list of all time. Are we sure he's not just a compiler who racks up word count, but isn't actually the most dominant prose writer compared to stuchiu?
Huh?
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On June 03 2024 07:25 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 07:19 Gescom wrote:
People acting a fool over the E10L trophy is funny. This community, man.
GG Serral and everyone who brought it. They shoulda just made it a "GJ Serral" trophy, instead of putting up this pretense of objective standards It's good to create traditions and celebrate your own history, but revealing you don't know your own history in the process is just embarrassing.
Embarrassing and worrisome for an organization that is famous for making arbitrary decisions of seeding disregarding their own rules and also making brackets behind doors.
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On June 03 2024 07:17 Waxangel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2024 07:13 dysenterymd wrote:
The ESL10 is sort of arbitrary, but I think it's being awarded for 10 offline victories? 4 WCS tournaments in 2018, 2 in 2019, 2 Katowice, and 2 ESL Masters. If it's just ESL tournaments Serral would have already won it with his 3 EU seasonal victories.
By those criterion, Oliveira has 1 and Special has 0. no, it's only tournaments under ESL/DreamHack, both online and offline. Chobra listed all ten specifically during the presentation 3x EU regional champion (implied that this is DH/ESL only) 3x DH Masters Season champion 2x IEM Katowice champion 2x ESL Masters/Season champion Regardless, Oliveira has 10+ under the same criteria, unless ESL explicitly says non-EU regionals are not real tournaments.
He did say international events and most of Oliveira's are from the China region so if we're being pedantic, Oliveira doesn't have 10 by those standards. I do agree that it's a bit silly though. Just call it a lifetime achievement award or something
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Wait so why can Oliveria scrim against Serral but Maru can't? All 3 aren't teammates so it shouldn't matter? The time zone difference isn't that huge either.
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United States33686 Posts
On June 03 2024 07:44 geokilla wrote:
Wait so why can Oliveria scrim against Serral but Maru can't? All 3 aren't teammates so it shouldn't matter? The time zone difference isn't that huge either.
I'm only vaguely aware of how it works but apparently Oliveira and some Chinese players have figured out a good VPN solution for playing to EU on reasonable-ish ping. Or at least that's what people say! Dunno why it's not more common for East Asia region players.
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EPT
