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Nasigil1
Profile Joined March 2024
114 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-06-02 22:57:19
June 02 2024 22:56 GMT
#861
It’s funny how some people like to talk about "prep based tournament" all the time but every time Serral plays Maru, it's Serral that came prepared with map specific strategies and Maru looked completely clueless.

In Katowice he caught Maru's pants down with two Roach push games. This time it's the Ultra rush and the Nydus/Roach combo in last game. Maru on the other hand was like "just let me get to late game pls". Not even a proxy Barracks. Come on.
SHODAN
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom1162 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-06-02 23:04:46
June 02 2024 23:04 GMT
#862
the GOAT discussion is cringe. Serral fanboys are cringe. Mizenhauer is cringe. Artosis is cringe. the special favourite trophies are cringe. the foreigner circlejerk is cringe. the Korea / GSL supremacy is cringe

it's plainly obvious that zerg macro is busted, that protoss can't keep up at the highest level, and that playing terran breaks your wrists - but the whole discussion gets polluted by emotional arguments about *your favourite player is the GOAT* or which tournaments matter. no hate towards Serral, just disappointment with the game. it's stupid that zerg can consistently produce enough units to A-move into a world-class opponent - all things being equal, with passive early / early-mid game - and just steamroll them with very little effort and even less counterplay. terran is supposed to be the timing attack race - but zerg has equally strong timing attacks in that matchup, plus a bunch of other major advantages. all 3 races should be more equally taxing and rewarding when it comes to both micro and macro. asymmetric balance should not = asymmetric skill

people have tuned out because SC2 gives us boring finals back-to-back-to-back, for years on end. balance council need to be less content about tip-toeing around the fundamental issues that are holding back competitive SC2
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18487 Posts
June 02 2024 23:06 GMT
#863
Maybe they're relying on Liquipedia "Premier" ranking, because European and NA qualifiers are counted as premier by Liquipedia, whereas other regions are counted as Major.

Why would ESL follow liquipedia's arbitrary tournament ranking? Who knows, but at least that could be an explanation.
Perceivere
Profile Joined February 2024
133 Posts
June 02 2024 23:10 GMT
#864
On June 03 2024 08:04 SHODAN wrote:
the GOAT discussion is cringe. Serral fanboys are cringe. Mizenhauer is cringe. Artosis is cringe. the special favourite trophies are cringe. the foreigner circlejerk is cringe. the Korea / GSL supremacy is cringe

it's plainly obvious that zerg macro is busted, that protoss can't keep up at the highest level, and that playing terran breaks your wrists - but the whole discussion gets polluted by emotional arguments about *your favourite player is the GOAT* or which tournaments matter. no hate towards Serral, just disappointment with the game. it's stupid that zerg can consistently produce enough units to A-move into a world-class opponent - all things being equal, with passive early / early-mid game - and just steamroll them with very little effort and even less counterplay. terran is supposed to be the timing attack race - but zerg has equally strong timing attacks in that matchup, plus a bunch of other major advantages. all 3 races should be more equally taxing and rewarding when it comes to both micro and macro. asymmetric balance should not = asymmetric skill

people have tuned out because SC2 gives us boring finals back-to-back-to-back, for years on end. balance council need to be less content about tip-toeing around the fundamental issues that are holding back competitive SC2

Hello, Mr. Anti-Cringe. Could you please explain how Dark and other zergs are failing to "produce enough units to A-move into" Maru and Clem? Just curious of what the light of your mastered knowledge of the game balance could shine upon us cringy plebs.
LukaMav
Profile Joined June 2024
28 Posts
June 02 2024 23:12 GMT
#865
On June 03 2024 07:56 Nasigil1 wrote:
It’s funny how some people like to talk about "prep based tournament" all the time but every time Serral plays Maru, it's Serral that came prepared with map specific strategies and Maru looked completely clueless.

In Katowice he caught Maru's pants down with two Roach push games. This time it's the Ultra rush and the Nydus/Roach combo in last game. Maru on the other hand was like "just let me get to late game pls". Not even a proxy Barracks. Come on.


The narrative only works for GSL

Maru getting stomped by Serral pretty standard. Maru is a tier below Serral for years.
LukaMav
Profile Joined June 2024
28 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-06-02 23:16:41
June 02 2024 23:14 GMT
#866
On June 03 2024 08:04 SHODAN wrote:
the GOAT discussion is cringe. Serral fanboys are cringe. Mizenhauer is cringe. Artosis is cringe. the special favourite trophies are cringe. the foreigner circlejerk is cringe. the Korea / GSL supremacy is cringe

it's plainly obvious that zerg macro is busted, that protoss can't keep up at the highest level, and that playing terran breaks your wrists - but the whole discussion gets polluted by emotional arguments about *your favourite player is the GOAT* or which tournaments matter. no hate towards Serral, just disappointment with the game. it's stupid that zerg can consistently produce enough units to A-move into a world-class opponent - all things being equal, with passive early / early-mid game - and just steamroll them with very little effort and even less counterplay. terran is supposed to be the timing attack race - but zerg has equally strong timing attacks in that matchup, plus a bunch of other major advantages. all 3 races should be more equally taxing and rewarding when it comes to both micro and macro. asymmetric balance should not = asymmetric skill

people have tuned out because SC2 gives us boring finals back-to-back-to-back, for years on end. balance council need to be less content about tip-toeing around the fundamental issues that are holding back competitive SC2


Crying about Zerg is OP is cringe. Terran has been proven to be the easiest and most forgiving race for years

Maru is hardly world class in anything beside turtling
Micro and macro Clem/Byun/Oliveria are miles better than Maru. Maru is just good at dragging games to cancer boring late game situations
Perceivere
Profile Joined February 2024
133 Posts
June 02 2024 23:25 GMT
#867
On June 03 2024 05:24 Perceivere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2024 05:08 tigera6 wrote:
On June 03 2024 05:06 Brutaxilos wrote:
I feel like Maru's going to do worse against Serral than Oliveira did

Every single build that Oliv did, Maru already showed that he could do it better, but that is assuming hes not dying to a Roach all-in.

Well, that first 8 rax was pretty much picture-perfect. It was Clem-level of terran perfection. Maru hasn't quite matched that, tbh. What Maru is better at is lategame. Really shows Oli has been practicing very hard.

Oh, how well my comment aged. Maru indeed couldn't match Oli/Clem's early-mid games. Or, at least, he didn't even try to; he was trying so hard to survive until lategame, where it is his bread and butter. Quick correction of the quoted comment: I meant that Maru's lategame is better than Oli's, not better than Clem's; they're roughly equal in that aspect.
SHODAN
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom1162 Posts
June 02 2024 23:27 GMT
#868
On June 03 2024 08:10 Perceivere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2024 08:04 SHODAN wrote:
the GOAT discussion is cringe. Serral fanboys are cringe. Mizenhauer is cringe. Artosis is cringe. the special favourite trophies are cringe. the foreigner circlejerk is cringe. the Korea / GSL supremacy is cringe

it's plainly obvious that zerg macro is busted, that protoss can't keep up at the highest level, and that playing terran breaks your wrists - but the whole discussion gets polluted by emotional arguments about *your favourite player is the GOAT* or which tournaments matter. no hate towards Serral, just disappointment with the game. it's stupid that zerg can consistently produce enough units to A-move into a world-class opponent - all things being equal, with passive early / early-mid game - and just steamroll them with very little effort and even less counterplay. terran is supposed to be the timing attack race - but zerg has equally strong timing attacks in that matchup, plus a bunch of other major advantages. all 3 races should be more equally taxing and rewarding when it comes to both micro and macro. asymmetric balance should not = asymmetric skill

people have tuned out because SC2 gives us boring finals back-to-back-to-back, for years on end. balance council need to be less content about tip-toeing around the fundamental issues that are holding back competitive SC2

Hello, Mr. Anti-Cringe. Could you please explain how Dark and other zergs are failing to "produce enough units to A-move into" Maru and Clem? Just curious of what the light of your mastered knowledge of the game balance could shine upon us cringy plebs.


Dark? he is too busy teching to infestors on 35 army supply
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10129 Posts
June 02 2024 23:28 GMT
#869
4-0.... damn it Maru!
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
Perceivere
Profile Joined February 2024
133 Posts
June 02 2024 23:33 GMT
#870
On June 03 2024 08:27 SHODAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2024 08:10 Perceivere wrote:
On June 03 2024 08:04 SHODAN wrote:
the GOAT discussion is cringe. Serral fanboys are cringe. Mizenhauer is cringe. Artosis is cringe. the special favourite trophies are cringe. the foreigner circlejerk is cringe. the Korea / GSL supremacy is cringe

it's plainly obvious that zerg macro is busted, that protoss can't keep up at the highest level, and that playing terran breaks your wrists - but the whole discussion gets polluted by emotional arguments about *your favourite player is the GOAT* or which tournaments matter. no hate towards Serral, just disappointment with the game. it's stupid that zerg can consistently produce enough units to A-move into a world-class opponent - all things being equal, with passive early / early-mid game - and just steamroll them with very little effort and even less counterplay. terran is supposed to be the timing attack race - but zerg has equally strong timing attacks in that matchup, plus a bunch of other major advantages. all 3 races should be more equally taxing and rewarding when it comes to both micro and macro. asymmetric balance should not = asymmetric skill

people have tuned out because SC2 gives us boring finals back-to-back-to-back, for years on end. balance council need to be less content about tip-toeing around the fundamental issues that are holding back competitive SC2

Hello, Mr. Anti-Cringe. Could you please explain how Dark and other zergs are failing to "produce enough units to A-move into" Maru and Clem? Just curious of what the light of your mastered knowledge of the game balance could shine upon us cringy plebs.


Dark? he is too busy teching to infestors on 35 army supply

I see, I see! Man, if only he had you as his coach, he would've realized that all he had to do was mass units and a-move. Please, someone, let Dark know about this brilliant Strategerie, so that Bliz's intern could get around to nerfing zerg again after Dark snatches all the GSLs from Maru!
SHODAN
Profile Joined November 2011
United Kingdom1162 Posts
June 02 2024 23:33 GMT
#871
On June 03 2024 08:14 LukaMav wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2024 08:04 SHODAN wrote:
the GOAT discussion is cringe. Serral fanboys are cringe. Mizenhauer is cringe. Artosis is cringe. the special favourite trophies are cringe. the foreigner circlejerk is cringe. the Korea / GSL supremacy is cringe

it's plainly obvious that zerg macro is busted, that protoss can't keep up at the highest level, and that playing terran breaks your wrists - but the whole discussion gets polluted by emotional arguments about *your favourite player is the GOAT* or which tournaments matter. no hate towards Serral, just disappointment with the game. it's stupid that zerg can consistently produce enough units to A-move into a world-class opponent - all things being equal, with passive early / early-mid game - and just steamroll them with very little effort and even less counterplay. terran is supposed to be the timing attack race - but zerg has equally strong timing attacks in that matchup, plus a bunch of other major advantages. all 3 races should be more equally taxing and rewarding when it comes to both micro and macro. asymmetric balance should not = asymmetric skill

people have tuned out because SC2 gives us boring finals back-to-back-to-back, for years on end. balance council need to be less content about tip-toeing around the fundamental issues that are holding back competitive SC2

Maru is just good at dragging games to cancer boring late game situations


in that case, why is Maru even trying to push Serral or hit timings before he has his boring lategame ultimate ghost army? surely he can just sit back, turtle and drag it out right? do you think Maru threw those games on purpose?
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 02 2024 23:34 GMT
#872
Ugh, hurts for Maru. Would love to watch him win another big one outside of Korea.
Telephone
Profile Joined October 2010
United States149 Posts
June 02 2024 23:35 GMT
#873
On June 03 2024 07:56 Nasigil1 wrote:
It’s funny how some people like to talk about "prep based tournament" all the time but every time Serral plays Maru, it's Serral that came prepared with map specific strategies and Maru looked completely clueless.

In Katowice he caught Maru's pants down with two Roach push games. This time it's the Ultra rush and the Nydus/Roach combo in last game. Maru on the other hand was like "just let me get to late game pls". Not even a proxy Barracks. Come on.


I mean, that's kinda exactly the point that argument is trying to make, for what it's worth.
bela.mervado
Profile Joined December 2008
Hungary418 Posts
June 02 2024 23:36 GMT
#874
i knew you do not fuck with the Finnish military
at this point it's obvious that they have updated and tweaked the firmware in the past weeks
and i suspect they even upgraded the hardware

Serral good unit
again, no one a-moves like him
<3
ZAWGURN
Profile Joined July 2018
96 Posts
June 02 2024 23:39 GMT
#875
I do wonder if a continued Serral dominance could hurt the game, if it might become boring to watch the same person win every tournament. Of course Serral is the best and he deserves it, I just wonder if it’s a possibility.
CJ herO #1 fan.
Balnazza
Profile Joined January 2018
Germany1381 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-06-02 23:41:09
June 02 2024 23:39 GMT
#876
On June 03 2024 08:33 SHODAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 03 2024 08:14 LukaMav wrote:
On June 03 2024 08:04 SHODAN wrote:
the GOAT discussion is cringe. Serral fanboys are cringe. Mizenhauer is cringe. Artosis is cringe. the special favourite trophies are cringe. the foreigner circlejerk is cringe. the Korea / GSL supremacy is cringe

it's plainly obvious that zerg macro is busted, that protoss can't keep up at the highest level, and that playing terran breaks your wrists - but the whole discussion gets polluted by emotional arguments about *your favourite player is the GOAT* or which tournaments matter. no hate towards Serral, just disappointment with the game. it's stupid that zerg can consistently produce enough units to A-move into a world-class opponent - all things being equal, with passive early / early-mid game - and just steamroll them with very little effort and even less counterplay. terran is supposed to be the timing attack race - but zerg has equally strong timing attacks in that matchup, plus a bunch of other major advantages. all 3 races should be more equally taxing and rewarding when it comes to both micro and macro. asymmetric balance should not = asymmetric skill

people have tuned out because SC2 gives us boring finals back-to-back-to-back, for years on end. balance council need to be less content about tip-toeing around the fundamental issues that are holding back competitive SC2

Maru is just good at dragging games to cancer boring late game situations


in that case, why is Maru even trying to push Serral or hit timings before he has his boring lategame ultimate ghost army? surely he can just sit back, turtle and drag it out right? do you think Maru threw those games on purpose?


Makes you wonder how Oliveira managed to produce a pretty close 2-3 against Serral through all that Zerg OPness. So you are basically saying Maru just sucks? That's cringe dude

On June 03 2024 08:39 ZAWGURN wrote:
I do wonder if a continued Serral dominance could hurt the game, if it might become boring to watch the same person win every tournament. Of course Serral is the best and he deserves it, I just wonder if it’s a possibility.


I mean, it definetly could be a problem, but I doubt it. AoE 2 got dominated by Viper for years and interest was growing, not declining.
"Wenn die Zauberin runter geht, dann macht sie die Beine breit" - Khaldor, trying to cast WC3 German-only
TL+ Member
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8991 Posts
June 02 2024 23:39 GMT
#877
Seems like I made the right fan boy decision skipping that final lol

Good job Serral, massive ESWC favorite.
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3562 Posts
June 02 2024 23:42 GMT
#878
On June 03 2024 08:39 Nakajin wrote:
Seems like I made the right fan boy decision skipping that final lol

Good job Serral, massive ESWC favorite.

Except he meets oliveira again
Locutos
Profile Joined January 2017
Brazil273 Posts
June 02 2024 23:45 GMT
#879
On June 03 2024 06:38 Nasigil1 wrote:
Did they just give a special GOAT trophy to Serral

Edit: okay it's the special one for 10 ESL. They mentioned multiple times "how can anyone doubt this man to be the greatest of all time", they are taking the TL series personally lol


Its was the best series ever.

S2 MIZ!!!
ZAWGURN
Profile Joined July 2018
96 Posts
June 02 2024 23:45 GMT
#880
As a herO fan, I feel like herO is to Maru is as Maru is to Serral. Although it’s usually close hero can never push over the edge to win a series, even if he’s ahead.
CJ herO #1 fan.
Prev 1 42 43 44 45 46 49 Next All
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