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Canada8991 Posts
On August 04 2023 06:16 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 06:14 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 06:07 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 06:05 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 06:03 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 05:48 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 05:44 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 05:35 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Interesting that Solar has such a good record vs Clem. Wasn't aware of that. Find it kind of strange given how bad Solar's record vs Maru is.
Solar started the big fight with 25 banes vs 80 marine. I find it generally strange how Clem’s record holds up versus almost anyone else in TvZ versus Reynor and Serral but is generally notably worse against Korean Zergs I think Clem is just amazing at low ping online play and suffers offline/with ping. Dark/Rogue (while he was around) are tricky so it makes sense that Clem would struggle against them, but Solar likes to brawl so Clem should match up fine against him in theory. Yeah having to play TvZ on NA east ping is kinda dumb for a 400k $ tournament :/. It hurts Clem's style much more. Do we know for sure that this is what they are doing? That's dumb as hell. I don't think they have a choice unfortunately, but Kashim is physically at the event and confirmed ping is around 70-80, which is what you get from France with a good internet to NA east. I mean Clem might struggle versus Solar anyways, but his style is more relient on being super clean. Him struggling more versus KR zergs might just be because he mostly plays versus them online (plus his nerves might prevent him from playing his best offline ^^') Solid showing from Solar and Maru, Onsyde is looking strong, while Reynor is still the 50-50 guy :D Wait why is this huge hyped prize pool tournament being played at 70-80 estimated ping exactly? This is news to me because they are offline in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and the ping to the servers isnt as good as an event hosted in for example Europe
I thought the tournament organizers could set up lan?
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On August 04 2023 06:19 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 06:16 TaKeTV wrote:On August 04 2023 06:14 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 06:07 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 06:05 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 06:03 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 05:48 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 05:44 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 05:35 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Interesting that Solar has such a good record vs Clem. Wasn't aware of that. Find it kind of strange given how bad Solar's record vs Maru is.
Solar started the big fight with 25 banes vs 80 marine. I find it generally strange how Clem’s record holds up versus almost anyone else in TvZ versus Reynor and Serral but is generally notably worse against Korean Zergs I think Clem is just amazing at low ping online play and suffers offline/with ping. Dark/Rogue (while he was around) are tricky so it makes sense that Clem would struggle against them, but Solar likes to brawl so Clem should match up fine against him in theory. Yeah having to play TvZ on NA east ping is kinda dumb for a 400k $ tournament :/. It hurts Clem's style much more. Do we know for sure that this is what they are doing? That's dumb as hell. I don't think they have a choice unfortunately, but Kashim is physically at the event and confirmed ping is around 70-80, which is what you get from France with a good internet to NA east. I mean Clem might struggle versus Solar anyways, but his style is more relient on being super clean. Him struggling more versus KR zergs might just be because he mostly plays versus them online (plus his nerves might prevent him from playing his best offline ^^') Solid showing from Solar and Maru, Onsyde is looking strong, while Reynor is still the 50-50 guy :D Wait why is this huge hyped prize pool tournament being played at 70-80 estimated ping exactly? This is news to me because they are offline in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and the ping to the servers isnt as good as an event hosted in for example Europe I thought the tournament organizers could set up lan?
From what I remember, Blizzard did make LAN versions exclusively for big tournaments like GSL but I remember hearing that for WoL, and I doubt current Blizzard is very cooperative in providing things like that anymore especially to first timers like Gamers8.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On August 04 2023 06:15 yubo56 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 05:48 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 05:44 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 05:35 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Interesting that Solar has such a good record vs Clem. Wasn't aware of that. Find it kind of strange given how bad Solar's record vs Maru is.
Solar started the big fight with 25 banes vs 80 marine. I find it generally strange how Clem’s record holds up versus almost anyone else in TvZ versus Reynor and Serral but is generally notably worse against Korean Zergs I think Clem is just amazing at low ping online play and suffers offline/with ping. Dark/Rogue (while he was around) are tricky so it makes sense that Clem would struggle against them, but Solar likes to brawl so Clem should match up fine against him in theory. See, but that's funny, since Clem is on a 7-0 streak against Dark in series lately, but is on a 0-6 losing streak vs Solar in series. By eye, that doesn't make a lot of sense, since Dark is one of the most resourceful and tricky and offbeat players to play against, while Clem excels in straight-up games, and Solar is quite a straight-up player. But the data don't lie. My guess is that Clem really respects Dark's craftiness and plays a little more patiently, and Dark's tendency to have bad early games makes it hard to convert wins without forcing mistakes via gimmicks, which won't work vs patient players (see Dark's games vs Maru / Cure as well). I think that vs the best players, Dark's early game basically dictates whether he can win or not, and Clem's taken advantage of this by simply playing offbeat early games into solid patient play. Solar is very different in that his early game is quite consistently good and textbook, and he wins by being very decisive with his hydra ling bane (HLB) into lurker viper play (much more Rogue-like). There's not really a simple way to get ahead vs Solar, and you just have to execute your active mid game better. Clem obviously has insanely good active mid and late game TvZ, but it's tailored to the EU Zergs, and Solar has equally insanely good ZvT that just seems a little more robust, giving him the consistency to win regularly of late. There's no obvious mindset to beat Solar, you just have to out play him (or proxy rax him kek)
Yeah that’s a good breakdown, nice post.
It’s nice that SC2 is varied enough that players still have their own preferences and stylistic quirks
Solar generally negotiates the early game pretty well and goes ham in the mid-game. But merely surviving in good shape to the late game necessarily means you’re going to take down Maru and his mastery there. See also Rag. Their game always follow the good early and midgame into ultimately losing pattern
Serral and Reynor are a bit greedier to try to get to late game quicker, which gives Clem perhaps some more room to make his relentless pushes work and trade series well. But I think this gives them a quicker lategame transition that can serve them quite well against Maru
Dark just does Dark things
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On August 04 2023 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 06:19 Nakajin wrote:On August 04 2023 06:16 TaKeTV wrote:On August 04 2023 06:14 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 06:07 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 06:05 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 06:03 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 05:48 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 05:44 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 05:35 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Interesting that Solar has such a good record vs Clem. Wasn't aware of that. Find it kind of strange given how bad Solar's record vs Maru is.
Solar started the big fight with 25 banes vs 80 marine. I find it generally strange how Clem’s record holds up versus almost anyone else in TvZ versus Reynor and Serral but is generally notably worse against Korean Zergs I think Clem is just amazing at low ping online play and suffers offline/with ping. Dark/Rogue (while he was around) are tricky so it makes sense that Clem would struggle against them, but Solar likes to brawl so Clem should match up fine against him in theory. Yeah having to play TvZ on NA east ping is kinda dumb for a 400k $ tournament :/. It hurts Clem's style much more. Do we know for sure that this is what they are doing? That's dumb as hell. I don't think they have a choice unfortunately, but Kashim is physically at the event and confirmed ping is around 70-80, which is what you get from France with a good internet to NA east. I mean Clem might struggle versus Solar anyways, but his style is more relient on being super clean. Him struggling more versus KR zergs might just be because he mostly plays versus them online (plus his nerves might prevent him from playing his best offline ^^') Solid showing from Solar and Maru, Onsyde is looking strong, while Reynor is still the 50-50 guy :D Wait why is this huge hyped prize pool tournament being played at 70-80 estimated ping exactly? This is news to me because they are offline in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and the ping to the servers isnt as good as an event hosted in for example Europe I thought the tournament organizers could set up lan? From what I remember, Blizzard did make LAN versions exclusively for big tournaments like GSL but I remember hearing that for WoL, and I doubt current Blizzard is very cooperative in providing things like that anymore especially to first timers like Gamers8.
I thought Gamers8 basically just got ESL to run this tournament for them? Perhaps I’m wrong I just got that impression
Y’argh
I’d put down some of the various instances of people needlessly eating banelings or other micro flubs down to the pressure of such a huge event.
It would fucking suck if it’s a ping issue. Maybe nothing can be done so shrug I guess.
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
Man Disruptors are basically paperweights versus someone with Byun level micro at times
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On August 04 2023 06:24 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 06:19 Nakajin wrote:On August 04 2023 06:16 TaKeTV wrote:On August 04 2023 06:14 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 06:07 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 06:05 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 06:03 Poopi wrote:On August 04 2023 05:48 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 05:44 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 05:35 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Interesting that Solar has such a good record vs Clem. Wasn't aware of that. Find it kind of strange given how bad Solar's record vs Maru is.
Solar started the big fight with 25 banes vs 80 marine. I find it generally strange how Clem’s record holds up versus almost anyone else in TvZ versus Reynor and Serral but is generally notably worse against Korean Zergs I think Clem is just amazing at low ping online play and suffers offline/with ping. Dark/Rogue (while he was around) are tricky so it makes sense that Clem would struggle against them, but Solar likes to brawl so Clem should match up fine against him in theory. Yeah having to play TvZ on NA east ping is kinda dumb for a 400k $ tournament :/. It hurts Clem's style much more. Do we know for sure that this is what they are doing? That's dumb as hell. I don't think they have a choice unfortunately, but Kashim is physically at the event and confirmed ping is around 70-80, which is what you get from France with a good internet to NA east. I mean Clem might struggle versus Solar anyways, but his style is more relient on being super clean. Him struggling more versus KR zergs might just be because he mostly plays versus them online (plus his nerves might prevent him from playing his best offline ^^') Solid showing from Solar and Maru, Onsyde is looking strong, while Reynor is still the 50-50 guy :D Wait why is this huge hyped prize pool tournament being played at 70-80 estimated ping exactly? This is news to me because they are offline in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia and the ping to the servers isnt as good as an event hosted in for example Europe I thought the tournament organizers could set up lan? From what I remember, Blizzard did make LAN versions exclusively for big tournaments like GSL but I remember hearing that for WoL, and I doubt current Blizzard is very cooperative in providing things like that anymore especially to first timers like Gamers8.
They would probably be afraid of that server software leaking and being pirated (not that it makes sense to be worried about piracy in a F2P game that they've nearly abandoned and don't make much money on anyways...)
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On August 04 2023 06:36 WombaT wrote:
Man Disruptors are basically paperweights versus someone with Byun level micro at times
Protoss design. It's not how well you can control this unit, it's how well your opponent can control against it.
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That is an.... interesting spot for the Robotics Bay.
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Classic is the new Protoss hope.
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I am glad to see pro Protoss players finally making extra Robotics Facilities. It's only been 10 years.
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wtf byun was looking good, went out for 2 min and he lost? T_T
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On August 04 2023 07:17 Vindicare605 wrote:
I am glad to see pro Protoss players finally making extra Robotics Facilities. It's only been 10 years.
the answer to Disruptor nerf was making more of them.
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On August 04 2023 07:19 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:17 Vindicare605 wrote:
I am glad to see pro Protoss players finally making extra Robotics Facilities. It's only been 10 years. the answer to Disruptor nerf was making more of them.
Well it's not just Disruptors. How many games did we used to see where losing a Warp Prism was a game ending mistake because Protoss could never build another one. "We need the Robotics for Immortals and Observers...." /facepalm. Like this was actually the argument Protoss players used to say to me in the LR threads.
Like there was some kind of limit to how many of them you could have.
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Some great Protoss performances today especially by Classic. Really surprising given their results for the last 6 months.
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Spirit vs Spirit, nice lol
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On August 04 2023 07:25 Die4Ever wrote:
Spirit vs Spirit, nice lol
Pretty sure it should be Spirit vs Elazer, I don't think they need to do a redraw, they're both 0-2 so it fits the rules
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Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament.
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On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament.
I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him.
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EPT
