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Northern Ireland25372 Posts
On August 04 2023 07:24 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:19 tigera6 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:17 Vindicare605 wrote:
I am glad to see pro Protoss players finally making extra Robotics Facilities. It's only been 10 years. the answer to Disruptor nerf was making more of them. Well it's not just Disruptors. How many games did we used to see where losing a Warp Prism was a game ending mistake because Protoss could never build another one. "We need the Robotics for Immortals and Observers...." /facepalm. Like this was actually the argument Protoss players used to say to me in the LR threads. Like there was some kind of limit to how many of them you could have.
In fairness in the olden days it was quite the money sink if you didn’t need it, and you were frequently being hella greedy elsewhere. At pro level anyway, at my scrub level I always got extra robos when I could. Being able to replace obs and prisms while still making army is too nice to pass up, or a panic dual robo chrono of Collosus after you lose a bunch.
In Legacy and if you secure muchos bases, extra robos only makes sense.
Considering you’re going to be hard pressed to beat a Terran of any quality without robo units past the midgame I’m quite enjoying Classic’s liberal building of extra robos
Ideally you don’t have shit engagements but they do happen, but you’re really cutting down the window where a Terran can be pounce if you get your Collosus/Disruptor count back in a round of production
As opposed to ‘Oh my Collosus all got wiped, I still have loads of gateway units and money, better hope they just leave me alone while I restock from one robo’
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Northern Ireland25372 Posts
On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him.
He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now
Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day
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On August 04 2023 07:41 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him. He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day
Classic honestly looked like a better player today than Serral.
Of course, after Serral gets a night of sleep and is better adjusted to the studio I doubt Classic will win. Cure is a rough draw for Clem, I don't really expect Clem to make it to the playoffs at this rate (unless he's really lucky with his last two opponents.)
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On August 04 2023 07:45 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:41 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him. He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day Classic honestly looked like a better player today than Serral. Of course, after Serral gets a night of sleep and is better adjusted to the studio I doubt Classic will win. Cure is a rough draw for Clem, I don't really expect Clem to make it to the playoffs at this rate (unless he's really lucky with his last two opponents.)
Clem could only avoid TvT for so long in a tournament where half of the players are Terrans.
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On August 04 2023 07:51 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:45 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 07:41 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him. He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day Classic honestly looked like a better player today than Serral. Of course, after Serral gets a night of sleep and is better adjusted to the studio I doubt Classic will win. Cure is a rough draw for Clem, I don't really expect Clem to make it to the playoffs at this rate (unless he's really lucky with his last two opponents.) Clem could only avoid TvT for so long in a tournament where half of the players are Terrans.
I mean, Clem's gone 2:3 in his best matchup, even if he dodged TvT he's not in great shape.
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Northern Ireland25372 Posts
On August 04 2023 07:45 dysenterymd wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:41 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him. He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day Classic honestly looked like a better player today than Serral. Of course, after Serral gets a night of sleep and is better adjusted to the studio I doubt Classic will win. Cure is a rough draw for Clem, I don't really expect Clem to make it to the playoffs at this rate (unless he's really lucky with his last two opponents.)
I guess the difference is that’s the worst I’ve seen Serral in a while and he pulled off a 2-0 ultimately. That’s the best I’ve seen Classic in a while and he’s still in the same spot.
Also that Carrier into ground into air toss against Reynor seemed a pure prep pocket build, I just wonder how many of those Classic still has in his locker.
Getting flashbacks to Classic’s last big Katowice run and the classic moment where he pulled off a DT blink allin on match point to take out Rogue, only to get absolutely stomped by Serral next round.
Hope I’m wrong but even if I’m not given the shape Classic seems in it seems likely he’ll take one of the two remaining matches to make playoffs regardless
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On August 04 2023 08:00 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:45 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 07:41 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him. He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day Classic honestly looked like a better player today than Serral. Of course, after Serral gets a night of sleep and is better adjusted to the studio I doubt Classic will win. Cure is a rough draw for Clem, I don't really expect Clem to make it to the playoffs at this rate (unless he's really lucky with his last two opponents.) Clem could only avoid TvT for so long in a tournament where half of the players are Terrans. I mean, Clem's gone 2:3 in his best matchup, even if he dodged TvT he's not in great shape.
Clem doesn't have it against Korean players
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Kind of sad that it now seems the only way we get Maru vs Serral is in the finals now unless one of them takes an unexpected loss tomorrow and gets seeded lower. Maru has mostly been in top shape this year outside of his chokes and not getting that matchup for the entire year will be very disappointing.
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On August 04 2023 08:05 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 07:45 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 07:41 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him. He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day Classic honestly looked like a better player today than Serral. Of course, after Serral gets a night of sleep and is better adjusted to the studio I doubt Classic will win. Cure is a rough draw for Clem, I don't really expect Clem to make it to the playoffs at this rate (unless he's really lucky with his last two opponents.) I guess the difference is that’s the worst I’ve seen Serral in a while and he pulled off a 2-0 ultimately. That’s the best I’ve seen Classic in a while and he’s still in the same spot. Also that Carrier into ground into air toss against Reynor seemed a pure prep pocket build, I just wonder how many of those Classic still has in his locker. Getting flashbacks to Classic’s last big Katowice run and the classic moment where he pulled off a DT blink allin on match point to take out Rogue, only to get absolutely stomped by Serral next round. Hope I’m wrong but even if I’m not given the shape Classic seems in it seems likely he’ll take one of the two remaining matches to make playoffs regardless
I think Classic lost to Dark in that tournament, not Serral, but that doesn't change your point
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I don't know how the rest of you feel, but to me this tournament feels like a big tournament like Katowice with its production values, great games, and I even love the new format.
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On August 04 2023 13:15 buzz_bender wrote:
I don't know how the rest of you feel, but to me this tournament feels like a big tournament like Katowice with its production values, great games, and I even love the new format.
The fact that it's an invitational only, the fact that it's playing with ping because there isn't a localized server and the fact that it's not affiliated with any league makes me think otherwise.
Big prize pool, big production, questionable competitive integrity.
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On August 04 2023 14:05 Vindicare605 wrote:The fact that it's an invitational only
Well, there were invite qualifiers. I don't really feel like anyone is missing necessarily based on the 24 we started with? I suspect they were being cautious because of VISA travel concerns. /shrug. A lot of annoyances recently with musical chairs on people pulling out of tournaments.
Without being too callous, I don't feel like the tournament becomes 'questionable' by having a bloated RO32 so that Hurricane, Ryung and Kelazhur can take a shot.
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On August 04 2023 14:09 Gescom wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 14:05 Vindicare605 wrote:The fact that it's an invitational only Well, there were invite qualifiers. I don't really feel like anyone is missing necessarily based on the 24 we started with? Maybe they were being cautious because of VISA travel concerns. /shrug
Yea qualifiers that were by invite only. a total of 24 players in the entire world were ALLOWED to play in this tournament from qualifier to final round. Sure it happens to have some of the best names in the world, but the fact that it wasn't open means that it's not a legit tournament on the level of the ESL's or GSL's.
The fact it isn't worth any EPT points is probably due to the exclusivity of those qualifiers also.
So this is a one off invitational. It has a nice prize pool, but if it wasn't for that no one would be taking it seriously as a legit tournament.
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Split hairs all you like... I'll choose to enjoy good games of StarCraft between the best players in the world.
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On August 04 2023 14:19 Gescom wrote:
Split hairs all you like... I'll choose to enjoy good games of StarCraft between the best players in the world.
Yea why should we care that our tournaments are fair and open for competition if the money is good and the games are good. It's all just entertainment right? Forget actual competition let's just turn this whole thing into professional wrestling, who cares if it's fake or not as long as the entertainment is good.
Again I'm enjoying these games too, but this tournament should not be considered anywhere near as legitimate as something like Katowice.
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The 24 invites were based on Katowice standings. Inviting people based on their placement in another event is basically what world championships have always done. Of course the invites were usually based on placements in multiple events instead of just one but it's still the same fundamental idea.
I agree that open qualifiers events are the ultimate test of SC2 skill and have always thought it's a travesty that world championships haven't had any true open qualifiers spots but I don't see how this is much different than a Blizzcon.
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On August 04 2023 08:14 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 08:00 QOGQOG wrote:On August 04 2023 07:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:45 dysenterymd wrote:On August 04 2023 07:41 WombaT wrote:On August 04 2023 07:34 Vindicare605 wrote:On August 04 2023 07:28 tigera6 wrote:
Solar played 2 great ZvT series, only have to face Maru, and Classic beating 2 world champ, only have to face another one. At least they wont let Serral and Maru play early in this tournament. I swear ESL is doing this to Solar on purpose at this point. I'd be so frustrated if I was him. He has to win sometime… Would he pretty hyped if it was now Oof for Classic he’s looked pretty damn good so far but I don’t see him taking out Serral. Still, another two bites of the cherry for him after his solid first day Classic honestly looked like a better player today than Serral. Of course, after Serral gets a night of sleep and is better adjusted to the studio I doubt Classic will win. Cure is a rough draw for Clem, I don't really expect Clem to make it to the playoffs at this rate (unless he's really lucky with his last two opponents.) Clem could only avoid TvT for so long in a tournament where half of the players are Terrans. I mean, Clem's gone 2:3 in his best matchup, even if he dodged TvT he's not in great shape. Clem doesn't have it against Korean players
Theory: He is the best foreign Terran with a huge margin, but the Koreans have plyed loads against Korean Terrans who are at Clem's level mechanically, or maybe better.
This especially shows in TvT, but less in TvP and TvZ, as there are more good foreigners to play against.
Tbh, having Clem in the scene likely helped other foreign pros loads in XvT matchups too!
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In term of competition, who do we really miss? DRG, Gumiho, Ragnarok, Bunny from the KR side , and then Special/Astrea/Scarlett from NA, possibly Lambo from EU. Among them Gumiho might be the most dissapointing case as he might have a real shot at having a deep run. And I think most players care about this more than ESL tournament other than the world championship because of the prize pool. Just think of this as a continuation of WESG pretty much.
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Northern Ireland25372 Posts
And WESG doesn’t really come too high in the prestige stakes
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Last Katowice was a long enough time ago that qualifiers based so heavily on it will miss out players who are currently hot. As it turns out the field is pretty close to what you’d expect, it’s not awful but having some open slots for wild cards would be nice. Also give some motivation for the Innos, Stats if the world to really get in shape
Ping though, that’s the biggy. For me anyway
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France12886 Posts
On August 04 2023 14:05 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2023 13:15 buzz_bender wrote:
I don't know how the rest of you feel, but to me this tournament feels like a big tournament like Katowice with its production values, great games, and I even love the new format. The fact that it's an invitational only, the fact that it's playing with ping because there isn't a localized server and the fact that it's not affiliated with any league makes me think otherwise. Big prize pool, big production, questionable competitive integrity.
It's like WESG with better production, but the ping issue is a bit dumb. Also seeing the KR translator all black / only eyes clothing feels odd for a starcraft tournament. The empty crowd does not really help either.
Good prizepool though, so pretty nice for the players (and viewers)
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EPT
