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United States32471 Posts
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Let's go Teebul!
EDIT:
I've never seen a proxy get scouted by a roaming Widow Mine before. Very unfortunate for Teebul.
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Piglet 0-1 down against Teebul after winning their first series 2-0. Rematch curse incoming?
EDIT:
Rematch curse stronk!
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Cham Kelazhur g2 was legendary... and it had the potential to go even longer
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Cham Kelazhur was such a clown fiesta. Please watch if you love that kind of series.
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On May 20 2022 06:06 [PkF] Wire wrote: Cham Kelazhur was such a clown fiesta. Please watch if you love that kind of series. I'll gladly admit I find games like these way more entertaining then crisp clean Korean games. Does that make me a bad person?
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On May 20 2022 15:52 _fool wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2022 06:06 [PkF] Wire wrote: Cham Kelazhur was such a clown fiesta. Please watch if you love that kind of series. I'll gladly admit I find games like these way more entertaining then crisp clean Korean games. Does that make me a bad person? of course not haha, scrappy games are the best !
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It just doesn't sit right with me how protoss is so fragile in the early, mid and late game against terran
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United States32471 Posts
I see it was a good day for the "rest of asia" portion of Oceania and Rest of Asia
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Canada8755 Posts
On May 21 2022 04:01 Waxangel wrote:I see it was a good day for the "rest of asia" portion of Oceania and Rest of Asia
Fun fact, with the victory of Teebull over Probe, this season will be the first since the creation of the OCE-SEA region back in 2015 to feature no Australian or New-Zealander in the top 2. Closest we got was a Risky-Butalways final, but Risky is still technicalty from New-Zealand.
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On May 21 2022 20:54 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2022 04:01 Waxangel wrote:I see it was a good day for the "rest of asia" portion of Oceania and Rest of Asia but Risky is still technicalty from New-Zealand. Careful, you might trigger some people
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Great series and excellent result for Milkicow vs MaxPax !
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Canada8755 Posts
Seeing Meomaika win is an absolute treat
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On May 22 2022 20:24 Nakajin wrote: Seeing Meomaika win is an absolute treat Sadly Maru failed in GSL so we're not guaranteed the rematch of the century.
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On May 22 2022 21:19 Elentos wrote:Sadly Maru failed in GSL so we're not guaranteed the rematch of the century. Maru will probably start from the open bracket and get to the Ro.32 (Group stage 3) as an unseeded player, so there is still a chance.
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Canada8755 Posts
On May 22 2022 22:15 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2022 21:19 Elentos wrote:On May 22 2022 20:24 Nakajin wrote: Seeing Meomaika win is an absolute treat Sadly Maru failed in GSL so we're not guaranteed the rematch of the century. Maru will probably start from the open bracket and get to the Ro.32 (Group stage 3) as an unseeded player, so there is still a chance.
I feel like there's a 50% that Maru is just too lazy to get on a plane and dosen't go
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Clem was way too aggressive against ShaDown
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Canada8755 Posts
On May 23 2022 00:54 buzz_bender wrote: Clem was way too aggressive against ShaDown
It's result like this that make me hate the ESL format. It's a massive upset, yet it will bear almost no impact on the tournament result by itself.
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wow Shadown !
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On May 23 2022 01:20 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2022 00:54 buzz_bender wrote: Clem was way too aggressive against ShaDown It's result like this that make me hate the ESL format. It's a massive upset, yet it will bear almost no impact on the tournament result by itself. Bring back single elimination Bo1
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Canada8755 Posts
On May 23 2022 01:51 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2022 01:20 Nakajin wrote:On May 23 2022 00:54 buzz_bender wrote: Clem was way too aggressive against ShaDown It's result like this that make me hate the ESL format. It's a massive upset, yet it will bear almost no impact on the tournament result by itself. Bring back single elimination Bo1
I know we are joking, but imagine how hype it would be to have a 64 player giga-bracket best of 1 tournament with random seeding. Almost everyone that benefit from the curent format is already richer than almost anyone in the history of SC2 anyway, it would shake things up a bit
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Soulspirit 2-1 Reynor
He really earned that win! Surprisingly entertaining week for the regionals
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On May 23 2022 04:58 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2022 01:51 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2022 01:20 Nakajin wrote:On May 23 2022 00:54 buzz_bender wrote: Clem was way too aggressive against ShaDown It's result like this that make me hate the ESL format. It's a massive upset, yet it will bear almost no impact on the tournament result by itself. Bring back single elimination Bo1 I know we are joking, but imagine how hype it would be to have a 64 player giga-bracket best of 1 tournament with random seeding. Almost everyone that benefit from the curent format is already richer than almost anyone in the history of SC2 anyway, it would shake things up a bit
I quite like the stability of those tournaments: we have other shorter/direct elimination tournaments, having the dreamhacks + katowice as the baseline league across the year makes sense to me. Seems similar to what's done in most sports (europe at least) with the stable weekly league on one hand, and then the occasional cups and tournaments.
Also, it's not entirely fair to say those upsets don't matter. Anyone of the big 4 not finishing first of its group would significantly mess-up the elimination bracket afterwards and break the seeding for the offline (I actually think last year we never got the big 4 in the end, correct?).
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Northern Ireland20675 Posts
On May 23 2022 01:20 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2022 00:54 buzz_bender wrote: Clem was way too aggressive against ShaDown It's result like this that make me hate the ESL format. It's a massive upset, yet it will bear almost no impact on the tournament result by itself. It’s really a problem of players rather than the format itself, but yes groups drag and are predictable.
Imagine this format applied to the GSL field of 4/5 years ago and it would (I imagine) have been bloody fantastic.
A single elim tournament would be more exciting and volatile, but Reynor and especially Serral almost never lose to players an appreciable level below them.
You’d likely end up with a more exciting early tournament and a more boring latter stages, with those guys butchering underdogs even more than they usually butcher the other top European players.
To just take Clem losing to Shadown, it would be nice if it had more stakes in it, but Clem reliably making it deep has given us some of the most consistently good TvZ rivalries anywhere in the world over the past year or two.
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On May 23 2022 01:20 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2022 00:54 buzz_bender wrote: Clem was way too aggressive against ShaDown It's result like this that make me hate the ESL format. It's a massive upset, yet it will bear almost no impact on the tournament result by itself.
That isn't really true, it puts a lot of pressure on the people who were competing with Shadown for 3rd/4th place in the group, goblin and Gungfu. Even Vanya's tournament is changed by it.
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LETS GO FUTURE AND VINDICTA!!!!!!
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Eager to see NA
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Didn't understand why people said queens are op until I watched that Scarlett Asuna game. I have seen the light
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> Didn't understand why people said queens are op until I watched that Scarlett Asuna game. I have seen the light
I don't understand why Asuna had to attack into spores queens and fungal/microbrial shroud. What's wrong with camping on 20 shield batteries per base and waiting for zerg to attack into you? Neeb plays that style with carriers/tempests and it seems to work well, because as good as queens are, shield battery and cannons are better.
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On May 24 2022 18:15 WombaT wrote: A single elim tournament would be more exciting and volatile, but Reynor and especially Serral almost never lose to players an appreciable level below them. Yeah, after Reynor's loss I decided to look at Serral's Aligulac history. The worst player he's lost to in the last 3 years in a bo3+ is Nightmare. After that, you get into ShoWTimE/Elazer/Lambo/DRG territory, most of which were hotly contested and/or in non-premier events. His stability against players worse than him is incredible.
The losses against DRG are actually the most jarring for me, given DRG's ZvZ is notoriously bad and he lost to him twice. There does seem to be at least somewhat of a random aspect to ZvZ where depending on how much you can either make your opponent make safety lings or catch him offguard with more lings and eek out a few more drones, you can just win with overwhelming roach numbers, but it has to be a pretty small effect given upsets are still fairly rare.
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ShaDown is playing out of his mind. It's clear that he has done a lot of prep against his opponents.
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On May 25 2022 19:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2022 18:15 WombaT wrote: A single elim tournament would be more exciting and volatile, but Reynor and especially Serral almost never lose to players an appreciable level below them. Yeah, after Reynor's loss I decided to look at Serral's Aligulac history. The worst player he's lost to in the last 3 years in a bo3+ is Nightmare. After that, you get into ShoWTimE/Elazer/Lambo/DRG territory, most of which were hotly contested and/or in non-premier events. His stability against players worse than him is incredible. The losses against DRG are actually the most jarring for me, given DRG's ZvZ is notoriously bad and he lost to him twice. There does seem to be at least somewhat of a random aspect to ZvZ where depending on how much you can either make your opponent make safety lings or catch him offguard with more lings and eek out a few more drones, you can just win with overwhelming roach numbers, but it has to be a pretty small effect given upsets are still fairly rare.
I guess you mean Hurricane? Serral has never played against Nightmare.
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On May 26 2022 02:28 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2022 19:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 24 2022 18:15 WombaT wrote: A single elim tournament would be more exciting and volatile, but Reynor and especially Serral almost never lose to players an appreciable level below them. Yeah, after Reynor's loss I decided to look at Serral's Aligulac history. The worst player he's lost to in the last 3 years in a bo3+ is Nightmare. After that, you get into ShoWTimE/Elazer/Lambo/DRG territory, most of which were hotly contested and/or in non-premier events. His stability against players worse than him is incredible. The losses against DRG are actually the most jarring for me, given DRG's ZvZ is notoriously bad and he lost to him twice. There does seem to be at least somewhat of a random aspect to ZvZ where depending on how much you can either make your opponent make safety lings or catch him offguard with more lings and eek out a few more drones, you can just win with overwhelming roach numbers, but it has to be a pretty small effect given upsets are still fairly rare. I guess you mean Hurricane? Serral has never played against Nightmare. It was all just a dream...
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Serral Skillous is some nice positional pvz
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Serral has no main and like 4 bases less but he's winning
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Yeah Skillous has money but his army has zero quality. Everytime they engage he loses 50 supply and Serral loses like 2 units
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Have to agree with ZG in the chat, it's surprising how extremely safe and conservative Serral is playing that lategame.
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It took Serral 30minutes to figure out that the best way to shut down Gateway multi-prong isnt BLord-Ultra-Infestor but the good old Lurker.
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On May 27 2022 02:18 [PkF] Wire wrote: Have to agree with ZG in the chat, it's surprising how extremely safe and conservative Serral is playing that lategame. I think that had a lot to do with his tech choice, you cant really be agressive with Blord-Infestor-Corruptor, you can only make a deathball with that and hope the Protoss will keep on hitting it and lose unit for free.
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On May 27 2022 02:31 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2022 02:18 [PkF] Wire wrote: Have to agree with ZG in the chat, it's surprising how extremely safe and conservative Serral is playing that lategame. I think that had a lot to do with his tech choice, you cant really be agressive with Blord-Infestor-Corruptor, you can only make a deathball with that and hope the Protoss will keep on hitting it and lose unit for free. Yeah that and in the end it was the right move, he got his win condition with the addition of lurkers and ended the game rather beautifully. But as Catz pointed out, he definitely had some timings when he could split and amove part of his army and roll Skillous ; easy to say when you have full vision, of course !
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On May 27 2022 02:33 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2022 02:31 tigera6 wrote:On May 27 2022 02:18 [PkF] Wire wrote: Have to agree with ZG in the chat, it's surprising how extremely safe and conservative Serral is playing that lategame. I think that had a lot to do with his tech choice, you cant really be agressive with Blord-Infestor-Corruptor, you can only make a deathball with that and hope the Protoss will keep on hitting it and lose unit for free. Yeah that and in the end it was the right move, he got his win condition with the addition of lurkers and ended the game rather beautifully. But as Catz pointed out, he definitely had some timings when he could split and amove part of his army and roll Skillous ; easy to say when you have full vision, of course ! Its just quite hard to both defend and attack with BLord at the same time, and you need like 10 BLord together to make it a formidable force, less than that and it could be ambushed by lots of Stalkers. And I think Skillous also got some chance as well before Serral made the Lurker, in particular how he could use the Mothership , or proxy the Nexus to recall all the army instantly from one end to the other and crush the base of Serral.
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Solid win for HM, MaxPax could need to win vs Lambo
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LP says Lambo won 2-1 vs Ptitdrogo, stream says it was 2-0 for Ptitdrogo... Who is right ?
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wow Epic took that g1, impressive
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France12463 Posts
What a cool pop off from Epic! Nice upset right there, the 8 rax brick is still potent
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and he closes out the deal ! Nice performance, quite unexpected I have to say !
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Another good day of SC2 ! The last days should be more interesting than on average with some interesting situations still not fully set
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SoulSpirit is a complete discovery for me. He's an interesting lad with fun playstyles !
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Nice adaptation from SoulSpirit vs Gerald so far
but taking that disruptor shot was not nice ^^
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SoulSpirit has a lot of good ideas and does a lot of things right, but he can still lose control of the games at crucial points. Still, the potential is there.
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Ukko and his changeling armies
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what a night to be alive (Vindicta - Disk g2 / Ukko - McCanning g3, don't miss)
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Ukko is actually using his changelings to block the HTs and abduct air units, that's amazing haha
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and it all ends with mass banelings crashing Mccanning's attempt to camp into a draw. Magnificent !
edit : actually only 1 viper left... Is it a draw ???
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to tell you what you are missing on : Ukko abducted a probe, and it was worth it
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whaaaaaaaaaaat
they drew lol
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Sorry to be off topic. Anyone know the kpop song that was playing during the wait screen?
Edit: wait screen on the main stream before Clem vs Showtime
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Uthermal so close to winning game2 against Serral
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That Serral is not so bad
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On May 30 2022 03:20 Kreuger wrote: Uthermal so close to winning game2 against Serral
Exactly. Group C was the easiest group. Serral ALWAYS gets a group where nobody is on his level. No Reynor, no Showtime, no Clem, etc
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this format is so boring, who came up with it :/ lasts so long and there is no any excitement.
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On May 30 2022 06:16 Zergiica wrote: this format is so boring, who came up with it :/ lasts so long and there is no any excitement.
I agree. Think a GSL style set of group stages would be much more exciting.
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On May 30 2022 06:28 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2022 06:16 Zergiica wrote: this format is so boring, who came up with it :/ lasts so long and there is no any excitement. I agree. Think a GSL style set of group stages would be much more exciting. while I'd like to see that, the current format is not too bad and allows lesser known players to get more exposition. Personally I rather enjoy it even though most results are very predictable
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On May 30 2022 06:16 Zergiica wrote: this format is so boring, who came up with it :/ lasts so long and there is no any excitement.
Personally I really enjoy this format.
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On May 30 2022 04:22 jackednstacked wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2022 03:20 Kreuger wrote: Uthermal so close to winning game2 against Serral Exactly. Group C was the easiest group. Serral ALWAYS gets a group where nobody is on his level. No Reynor, no Showtime, no Clem, etc
I assume the groups have some sort of seeding based on EPT points. As Serral, Reynor and Clem have tended to be regarded as the best three players in Europe they should never be in the same group, and it would be a mistake if they were. Put another way, Reynor/Clem always get an easy group as there is no Serral. Therefore Serral will always be the toughest opponent in whatever group he is in.
In terms of other Europeans who could meaningfully challenge one of the top three, Serral seems to get his fair share. Your example of ShowTime was actually in Serral's group at the last European regionals. The two before that he had Lambo in his group.
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Northern Ireland20675 Posts
On May 30 2022 06:28 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2022 06:16 Zergiica wrote: this format is so boring, who came up with it :/ lasts so long and there is no any excitement. I agree. Think a GSL style set of group stages would be much more exciting. It’s a trade-off, also one that is quite good for the lower tier players with their moolah for every win etc. Get some more exposure to build off and more competitive matches at this level.
You get a predictable, relatively boring group stage but the playoffs tend to be good, or as good as they can be.
Europe’s problems aren’t so much of format as player composition, there’s just such a gap between the big boys and the rest. GSL’s formats have tended to work because there’s enough players who can beat each other on any given day.
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Lambo got outplayed by Serral so hard that I almost doubt his good performance against Serral last year.
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Idk in thse games the natural advantages of zerg look so damn obvious once they get rolling imo.
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Zerg just has it all change my mind.
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You could really see the advantage zerg has in serral vs lambo
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On June 01 2022 01:12 Kreuger wrote:You could really see the advantage zerg has in serral vs lambo One can really see the uselessness in comments like these in yours here
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On June 01 2022 01:13 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2022 01:12 Kreuger wrote:You could really see the advantage zerg has in serral vs lambo One can really see the uselessness in comments like these in yours here
Im only here to be of service
Shouldnt post between sets at the gym, so easy to shitpost :p
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This round is unexpectedly full of bops, and I thought after a mostly boring group stage we would have some excited playoff round.
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Northern Ireland20675 Posts
On June 01 2022 01:44 tigera6 wrote: This round is unexpectedly full of bops, and I thought after a mostly boring group stage we would have some excited playoff round. Hopefully this last match will see the flourishing of the #YearOfHarstem
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Year Of Harstem we in here!!!
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Anyone else sad Disruptors seem to have almost completely replaced high templars from the matchup? HTs are so much better designed and lead to better interactions
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Northern Ireland20675 Posts
On June 01 2022 02:49 Charoisaur wrote: Anyone else sad Disruptors seem to have almost completely replaced high templars from the matchup? HTs are so much better designed and lead to better interactions Yeah I love some Templar-based PvT, ever since way back in WoL Parting was showing some stellar macro games with that style.
I wonder why it’s no longer in vogue, have top Ts just got too proficient at splitting at hitting their EMPs or what?
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HM must be so tilted at the end of that game 3, he was like, F it all with those balls.
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On June 01 2022 03:01 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2022 02:49 Charoisaur wrote: Anyone else sad Disruptors seem to have almost completely replaced high templars from the matchup? HTs are so much better designed and lead to better interactions Yeah I love some Templar-based PvT, ever since way back in WoL Parting was showing some stellar macro games with that style. I wonder why it’s no longer in vogue, have top Ts just got too proficient at splitting at hitting their EMPs or what? Probably a mix of the EMP radius buff/upgrade and Protoss players discovering just how insanely good Disruptors are in the matchup
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Harstem just nonstop throwing his balls in Heromarine's face :D
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hashtag
Year
OF
HEARTHSTONE!!!!!!
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Awsome game5
Harstem with great map awareness and disruptercontrol
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Year of Harstem!
I'm glad HeroMarine and Harstem went the distance after the sweeps earlier today. Great to see the big EU names still being vulnerable here and there.
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Harstem PvT is grossly underated, the man pushed Maru hard into a late PvT game last year, even beat him in the EU server. About the Disruptor, you need some insane micro to get the surround and to dodge the balls, and massing Libs+Tanks to zone them out effectively.
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On June 01 2022 04:06 tigera6 wrote: Harstem PvT is grossly underated, the man pushed Maru hard into a late PvT game last year, even beat him in the EU server. About the Disruptor, you need some insane micro to get the surround and to dodge the balls, and massing Libs+Tanks to zone them out effectively. Tanks suck but besides that you're right
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Nice for Harstem ! I thought this was going to be another bop so I didn't watch, going to catch up on the series !
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Harstem's elation at the end of game 5 was the kind of passion you love to see in SC2. Really impressive to see him place top 6 already. And if he can take down HM, who's to say he can't do the same for Clem? They have very similar TvP performance. I think most fans are gonna root for Clem to face off against Serral or Reynor in the UB finals though.
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On June 01 2022 03:01 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2022 02:49 Charoisaur wrote: Anyone else sad Disruptors seem to have almost completely replaced high templars from the matchup? HTs are so much better designed and lead to better interactions Yeah I love some Templar-based PvT, ever since way back in WoL Parting was showing some stellar macro games with that style. I wonder why it’s no longer in vogue, have top Ts just got too proficient at splitting at hitting their EMPs or what?
Because blizzard buffed ghosts multiple times ie free cloak upgrade and Emp radius made HT quite useless
Disruptor is a more reliable AOE and zoning
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Heromarine needed to play like Maru in going defensive later in the game when Harstem had so many disruptors. He was a bit too aggressive, and did not set up defensively well enough (no tanks?).
Well played by Harstem!
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On June 01 2022 11:53 buzz_bender wrote: Heromarine needed to play like Maru in going defensive later in the game when Harstem had so many disruptors. He was a bit too aggressive, and did not set up defensively well enough (no tanks?).
Well played by Harstem! There is not a lot of Terran, or anyone, currently playing like Maru TvP into late game, maybe other than Reynor off-race. Most Terran playing TvP with momentum, using mass Bio army to take good fight and ultimately crushed Protoss army before reaching lategame. Harstem army of pure Stalker/Zealot and Disruptor counter that style very well as long as he can track down all the side army drop from Terran, which he did in this game.
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On June 01 2022 14:32 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2022 11:53 buzz_bender wrote: Heromarine needed to play like Maru in going defensive later in the game when Harstem had so many disruptors. He was a bit too aggressive, and did not set up defensively well enough (no tanks?).
Well played by Harstem! Most Terran playing TvP with momentum, using mass Bio army to take good fight and ultimately crushed Protoss army before reaching lategame. Harstem army of pure Stalker/Zealot and Disruptor counter that style very well as long as he can track down all the side army drop from Terran, which he did in this game.
Oh, I agree, but I'm saying that what Harstem did was a full-blown counter to what Heromarine was doing. He needed to sit back, build tanks/libs for defense, and start building CCs etc. Harstem was catching him everytime he moves out, and Heromarine's drops did not do much at all, constantly dying and losing the whole army. His trades were just not good enough. It didn't help that Harstem had so many disruptors - I think Heromarine needed more tanks/libs against that army.
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On June 01 2022 11:11 TossHeroes wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2022 03:01 WombaT wrote:On June 01 2022 02:49 Charoisaur wrote: Anyone else sad Disruptors seem to have almost completely replaced high templars from the matchup? HTs are so much better designed and lead to better interactions Yeah I love some Templar-based PvT, ever since way back in WoL Parting was showing some stellar macro games with that style. I wonder why it’s no longer in vogue, have top Ts just got too proficient at splitting at hitting their EMPs or what? Because blizzard buffed ghosts multiple times ie free cloak upgrade and Emp radius made HT quite useless Disruptor is a more reliable AOE and zoning Free Cloak upgrade got reverted. They got free 75 starting energy upgrade though
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On June 01 2022 02:49 Charoisaur wrote: Anyone else sad Disruptors seem to have almost completely replaced high templars from the matchup? HTs are so much better designed and lead to better interactions It's not great having units that are so feast/famine in the game. They create too much volatility.
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Maxpax putting on a clinic against uThermal thus far.
EDIT:
Such a clinic that he made uThermal rage-quit the final game.
3-0 to the Danish prince.
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Why do terrans always get so salty when losing to Protoss?
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Uthermals mentality vs protoss is so massively bad it makes him lose won games
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On June 01 2022 23:43 Charoisaur wrote: Why do terrans always get so salty when losing to Protoss? Fucking lasers, man
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On June 01 2022 23:45 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2022 23:43 Charoisaur wrote: Why do terrans always get so salty when losing to Protoss? Fucking lasers, man pewpewpewlasers is my favourite Protoss composition.
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One of the worst throw of all time by Sha-DOWN
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poor Shadown ! Still a nice run, but losing that series (and especially the first game) this way must hurt
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the hightlights of that g1 my God... That stalker lift...
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Milkicow is promising. I'm curious to see how he will do vs Skillous, what his preparation looks like.
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that's fantastic prep already
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that's a rather good showing from Milkicow so far but I'm afraid it won't be enough
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hey the pull wasn't that far from working ^^
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On June 02 2022 03:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: hey the pull wasn't that far from working ^^ Yeah gonna be interesting how he performs in the future.
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On June 02 2022 03:41 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2022 03:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: hey the pull wasn't that far from working ^^ Yeah gonna be interesting how he performs in the future. He has nice potential for sure and has a knack for making people suffer even from very hard positions. I'll be curious to see how he evolves too.
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Scarlett looked totally relentless in that first game !
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So far Disk is getting completely swarmed
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Agree with Rotti, this ZvP meta could be very good for Scarlett
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+2 banes man, you can't afford even one mistake
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so many mirrors today... Probably going to skip most of the series and watch only Elazer Skillous
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Only sweeps so far. Hopefully we have a 5game series now
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Somehow the last series is not 3-0 but look just as bad, Elazer seems like not able to scout anything and got hit by the Protoss timing 3 times in a row, and only defended well once on a close fight.
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On June 03 2022 02:45 tigera6 wrote: Somehow the last series is not 3-0 but look just as bad, Elazer seems like not able to scout anything and got hit by the Protoss timing 3 times in a row, and only defended well once on a close fight. He isn't losing due to timings. He's losing by being overly aggressive and not knowing when to stop and drone up to further his advantage.
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On June 03 2022 02:58 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2022 02:45 tigera6 wrote: Somehow the last series is not 3-0 but look just as bad, Elazer seems like not able to scout anything and got hit by the Protoss timing 3 times in a row, and only defended well once on a close fight. He isn't losing due to timings. He's losing by being overly aggressive and not knowing when to stop and drone up to further his advantage. Game 1, he died because doing Queen attack into an Archon Chargelot timing, which you NEVER do unless its double Stargate. Its about doing the wrong thing at the wrong time, not about agressive. Game 2&3, he died, or almost die, to Glaive Adept of all things because he making too many lings and not enough Roach. Game 4 was the one Elazer went hard into all-in and didnt work, like you said.
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Another 3-0 haha. I hope this is the Universe's way of saying we are going to have an absolutely amazing final three days.
10/14 of the series so far have been 3-0s. Thank you based Harstem for giving us one great series.
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On June 03 2022 05:48 Pandain wrote: Another 3-0 haha. I hope this is the Universe's way of saying we are going to have an absolutely amazing final three days.
10/14 of the series so far have been 3-0s. Thank you based Harstem for giving us one great series. this is stompcity...
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not another 3-0, yay !
edit : still a stomp
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THE 3-0 TOURNAMENT - we making history boys!!!
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Lambo gave MaxPax a ZvP lesson in preparation. Ruthless.
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On June 03 2022 23:55 [PkF] Wire wrote: Lambo gave MaxPax a ZvP lesson in preparation. Ruthless. We lost showtime in pvp for this (a classic in protoss performance where the good pvp players kick out the better other mu players to then get rekt in the other mu )
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It feels like MaxPax is the one player that get affected the most from the Void Ray nerf, or reverted buff.
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On June 03 2022 23:58 tigera6 wrote: It feels like MaxPax is the one player that get affected the most from the Void Ray nerf, or reverted buff. MaxPatch
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On June 03 2022 23:57 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2022 23:55 [PkF] Wire wrote: Lambo gave MaxPax a ZvP lesson in preparation. Ruthless. We lost showtime in pvp for this (a classic in protoss performance where the good pvp players kick out the better other mu players to then get rekt in the other mu ) yeah it happens so often... Sad indeed, ShoWTime - Lambo would probably have been a better match
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would this DH-EU make the record for having the most 3-0 score in the playoff?
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Didn't think harstem would be the protoss hope in this DH EU
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On June 04 2022 00:51 darklycid wrote:Didn't think harstem would be the protoss hope in this DH EU there is hope for Protoss?
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serral with the bly tier build I love it
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Reynor is just too good, hes a combination of Rogue and Dark, playing with crazy timing /greedy build that throw Serral off too much, and his micro is insane as well.
Btw, I dont think I like how they delay the Harstem vs Clem game, because their opponent, Lambo, would have to prepare for BOTH matchup instead of one. I guess it could even out with the players from the upper match would have to play an extra Bo5, but still.
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I have to admit I like Reynor's interviews more.
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On June 04 2022 02:00 Xain0n wrote: I have to admit I like Reynor's interviews more. Italian bias?
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On June 04 2022 01:45 tigera6 wrote: Reynor is just too good, hes a combination of Rogue and Dark, playing with crazy timing /greedy build that throw Serral off too much, and his micro is insane as well.
Btw, I dont think I like how they delay the Harstem vs Clem game, because their opponent, Lambo, would have to prepare for BOTH matchup instead of one. I guess it could even out with the players from the upper match would have to play an extra Bo5, but still.
I think it evens out because whoever loses between Harstem/Clem also has little opportunity to prepare as well. And obviously it's not ideal but the other solution is Clem forefeiting and I'm sure no one wants that.
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Future had a rough group phase, I wonder how he will fare in this rematch vs Astrea
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overall a solid g2 from Future, but his control vs disruptors was not good enough. Still, the beginning of the series is promising.
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Future broke down after g2, sad because he wasn't that far away from making Astrea sweat a lot more
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Harstem played really well, but ultimately you can only get so far with Disruptor-Stalker against Mass Libs-Bio. And HM looking great so far, but I am suprised that Serral didnt expect HM to go for a 2-base pressure all-in, going for the gold base before bane speed even completed
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HM winning on Pride and Hardwire was not was I expected
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The mind game is just ridiculous, I would love it if HM going for a 3-rack proxy to end this match.
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HM dragged that out impressively long considering how far behind he was after that push
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BIG GABE!!! SERRAL OVERRATED!
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Immense choke from mr serral
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It's refreshing to see HM beat Serral once in three years.
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Serral die 3 games to mis-read opening, this is how he lost in ZvZ.
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Congrats to Big Gabe. Only caught the last two games. So does Serral still get a chance to compete offline at the world final event?
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On June 05 2022 01:47 Husyelt wrote: Congrats to Big Gabe. Only caught the last two games. So does Serral still get a chance to compete offline at the world final event?
Yes there's never going to be a world where he doesn't play that. Even if he didn't qualify directly for group stage (impossible, he would have to not be top 8 EU points) there's still an open bracket.
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On June 05 2022 01:47 Husyelt wrote: Congrats to Big Gabe. Only caught the last two games. So does Serral still get a chance to compete offline at the world final event? Yeah, he can play from the start of the tournament, the Ro80 or Group Stage 1 and make his way to the Bracket stage.
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is it monday already because this feels like its BIG GABE DAY
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On June 05 2022 01:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 01:47 Husyelt wrote: Congrats to Big Gabe. Only caught the last two games. So does Serral still get a chance to compete offline at the world final event? Yes there's never going to be a world where he doesn't play that. Even if he didn't qualify directly for group stage (impossible, he would have to not be top 8 EU points) there's still an open bracket. You have to be top 4 in DH EU to qualify for Group Stage 3 along with the other regions top players, everyone else start at the open bracket, I think
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wow Gabe that's unbelievable stuff ! Congrats !
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Crazy that this kind of push still works at high level
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This also makes the rest of the bracket way more exciting because I could see nearly every potential future match go either way, other than maybe Harstem Reynor
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What the fuck is this schedule, they didn't play Clem vs Harstem yesterday and now they play it until we have 2 matches left in the entire tournament?
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On June 05 2022 02:30 Durnuu wrote: What the fuck is this schedule, they didn't play Clem vs Harstem yesterday and now they play it until we have 2 matches left in the entire tournament? I don't get it either, anyone knows why they played the bracket this way ?
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On June 05 2022 02:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 02:30 Durnuu wrote: What the fuck is this schedule, they didn't play Clem vs Harstem yesterday and now they play it until we have 2 matches left in the entire tournament? I don't get it either, anyone knows why they played the bracket this way ? Only thing that can partly explain it is that Clem was invited by Macron alongside other french esports figures in a thinly veiled attempt to gain voters Still doesn't explain why on earth they would play so many matches today, they shouldn't play Reynor vs Clem or Heromarine vs the winner of this match
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On June 05 2022 02:48 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 02:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:On June 05 2022 02:30 Durnuu wrote: What the fuck is this schedule, they didn't play Clem vs Harstem yesterday and now they play it until we have 2 matches left in the entire tournament? I don't get it either, anyone knows why they played the bracket this way ? Only thing that can partly explain it is that Clem was invited by Macron alongside other french esports figures in a thinly veiled attempt to gain voters Still doesn't explain why on earth they would play so many matches today, they shouldn't play Reynor vs Clem or Heromarine vs the winner of this match The original schedule was 4 matches for today up to the Winner Final, the problem is that they couldnt figure out when to have Clem play Harstem despite there were like 3 days in between. So that match got pushed to today, and now we might have Harstem play 3 Bo5 matches in one days, which is just not fair.
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On June 05 2022 02:48 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 02:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:On June 05 2022 02:30 Durnuu wrote: What the fuck is this schedule, they didn't play Clem vs Harstem yesterday and now they play it until we have 2 matches left in the entire tournament? I don't get it either, anyone knows why they played the bracket this way ? Only thing that can partly explain it is that Clem was invited by Macron alongside other french esports figures in a thinly veiled attempt to gain voters Still doesn't explain why on earth they would play so many matches today, they shouldn't play Reynor vs Clem or Heromarine vs the winner of this match ah yeah, and that was shameless indeed. Maybe that's the explanation ! Thanks
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that low eco lategame from Lambo looked good but now Harstem seems to have the upper hand
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haha they were so convinced Lambo was winning... But 0 reprod and 0 ground army only takes you so far
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Man Lambo, you messed that one up !
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that was a very weird series
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Yeah, not sure why Lambo not just doing the same Queen Roach push every game and end it early.
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Good effort by the captain o7 Sad no toss ro4 but it is how it is.
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On June 05 2022 03:42 tigera6 wrote: Yeah, not sure why Lambo not just doing the same Queen Roach push every game and end it early. Trying to avoid zerg nerfs
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Canada8755 Posts
Alright I'm just checking in, wtf happen with Serral?
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On June 05 2022 03:43 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 03:42 tigera6 wrote: Yeah, not sure why Lambo not just doing the same Queen Roach push every game and end it early. Trying to avoid zerg nerfs I thought we are already ensured of that when Serral lost to HM, now this patch and map pool will run through the global tournament for sure, hell they might not change anything until after HomeStoryCup
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On June 05 2022 03:53 Nakajin wrote: Alright I'm just checking in, wtf happen with Serral? Gabed, Serral made 3 wrong read from HM opening that cost him 3 games
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On June 05 2022 03:53 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 03:53 Nakajin wrote: Alright I'm just checking in, wtf happen with Serral? Gabed, Serral made 3 wrong read from HM opening that cost him 3 games Tactical loss to keep the fire in the goat discussion
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On June 05 2022 03:53 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 03:43 Durnuu wrote:On June 05 2022 03:42 tigera6 wrote: Yeah, not sure why Lambo not just doing the same Queen Roach push every game and end it early. Trying to avoid zerg nerfs I thought we are already ensured of that when Serral lost to HM, now this patch and map pool will run through the global tournament for sure, hell they might not change anything until after HomeStoryCup Serral is clearly more skilled than his opponent and not a single one of his wins has ever had anything to do with balance, so him losing doesn't help avoiding the zerg nerfs. If anything, it helps buffs
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Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance..
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That was ugly. Hopefully whoever makes it through the lower bracket can give us a good finals
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Canada8755 Posts
On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance..
I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor.
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On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. you just imprinted the image of Serral and Reynor as the end boss of IWBTG in my head. Thanks, I shall probably never be able to erase it from my mind.
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Canada8755 Posts
On June 05 2022 05:10 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. you just imprinted the image of Serral and Reynor as the end boss of IWBTG in my head. Thanks, I shall probably never be able to erase it from my mind.
My pleasure
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Northern Ireland20675 Posts
On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively.
There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well.
The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again.
This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on.
All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level.
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On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that
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On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored.
Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable.
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On June 05 2022 10:01 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored. Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable. Please tell me you are joking, this map pool is by far the worst one in recent years for Terran in TvZ, and even Clem admitted as much during one of his interview that the map pool is negatively impacting his play style.
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On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. It would serve Clem much better, imo, to mix in HM/Cure style with all-in and pressure build, along with Maru style with more defensive style into his own style of TvZ to win more. His build has been the same since a year ago, 3CC with double Banshee and Helions, that is safe but also does not have the element of surprise if your opponent is a top player and get the defense setup properly. I know Clem used to mix in more build but I think it was off his success with the standard build, and try to throw opponent off-guard. Maybe hes saving those for important matches, but I havent seen much of those these days.
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On June 05 2022 08:30 [PkF] Wire wrote: W T F ??? I'm confused, what was this comment for?
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On June 05 2022 11:51 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 10:01 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored. Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable. Please tell me you are joking, this map pool is by far the worst one in recent years for Terran in TvZ, and even Clem admitted as much during one of his interview that the map pool is negatively impacting his play style. People have been, for years, deflecting any complaint about the strength of Zerg by saying it's a problem with the map pool. At least when they're not doing the mind-meltingly stupid "No, really, all the best players just happen to be Zerg" routine.
Is this map pool notably bad? Sure. Maybe. I guess. But a different map pool wouldn't change the results, as evidence by the last several years of map pools changes not changing the results.
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Clem just played poorly compared to his normal standard games, like the match between him and Reynor today. I don't think Clem cannot catch with Reynor/Serral's speed no longer since his domination days or Reynor/Serral just knew how to beat him consistently.
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On June 05 2022 12:14 AzAlexZ wrote:I'm confused, what was this comment for? I should have elaborated, sorry : Scarlett’s build in g3 (like a delayed speedling all-in with drones, but the timing looked very off and it got shut down so hard it was rather sad).
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On June 05 2022 12:36 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 11:51 tigera6 wrote:On June 05 2022 10:01 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored. Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable. Please tell me you are joking, this map pool is by far the worst one in recent years for Terran in TvZ, and even Clem admitted as much during one of his interview that the map pool is negatively impacting his play style. People have been, for years, deflecting any complaint about the strength of Zerg by saying it's a problem with the map pool. At least when they're not doing the mind-meltingly stupid "No, really, all the best players just happen to be Zerg" routine. Is this map pool notably bad? Sure. Maybe. I guess. But a different map pool wouldn't change the results, as evidence by the last several years of map pools changes not changing the results. Yeah, map pool is not the only issue, but its the easiest one to control and to change, thats why its so DAMN frustrating to see this current pool get passed AND kept for over half a year already.
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On June 05 2022 13:18 swarminfestor wrote: Clem just played poorly compared to his normal standard games, like the match between him and Reynor today. I don't think Clem cannot catch with Reynor/Serral's speed no longer since his domination days or Reynor/Serral just knew how to beat him consistently. I dont think Clem played that poorly, that was his standard game like against every other Zerg, but Reynor and Serral has figured out how to react to it better than before.
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On June 05 2022 12:36 QOGQOG wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 11:51 tigera6 wrote:On June 05 2022 10:01 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored. Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable. Please tell me you are joking, this map pool is by far the worst one in recent years for Terran in TvZ, and even Clem admitted as much during one of his interview that the map pool is negatively impacting his play style. People have been, for years, deflecting any complaint about the strength of Zerg by saying it's a problem with the map pool. At least when they're not doing the mind-meltingly stupid "No, really, all the best players just happen to be Zerg" routine. Is this map pool notably bad? Sure. Maybe. I guess. But a different map pool wouldn't change the results, as evidence by the last several years of map pools changes not changing the results. Eeeeeh on the last mappool Clem was consistently dominating Serral and Reynor so at least for him it's undeniable the maps are the biggest factor
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There is a world where HeroMarine wins this installment of the EU Regionals. I wouldn't mind such world.
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On June 05 2022 16:09 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 13:18 swarminfestor wrote: Clem just played poorly compared to his normal standard games, like the match between him and Reynor today. I don't think Clem cannot catch with Reynor/Serral's speed no longer since his domination days or Reynor/Serral just knew how to beat him consistently. I dont think Clem played that poorly, that was his standard game like against every other Zerg, but Reynor and Serral has figured out how to react to it better than before.
And we've been on the same map pool for so long! It's still the same map pool as Katowice, and GSL is already starting season 2 tomorrow! This map pool was already in rotation 3-4 months *before* Katowice. It's super frustrating to see nothing has been done about this.
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Northern Ireland20675 Posts
On June 05 2022 18:00 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 12:36 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 11:51 tigera6 wrote:On June 05 2022 10:01 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored. Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable. Please tell me you are joking, this map pool is by far the worst one in recent years for Terran in TvZ, and even Clem admitted as much during one of his interview that the map pool is negatively impacting his play style. People have been, for years, deflecting any complaint about the strength of Zerg by saying it's a problem with the map pool. At least when they're not doing the mind-meltingly stupid "No, really, all the best players just happen to be Zerg" routine. Is this map pool notably bad? Sure. Maybe. I guess. But a different map pool wouldn't change the results, as evidence by the last several years of map pools changes not changing the results. Eeeeeh on the last mappool Clem was consistently dominating Serral and Reynor so at least for him it's undeniable the maps are the biggest factor Was it that much better a pool for Terrans than this? We haven’t had a bad pool for Zergs in forever, it’s just degrees of how much they suit the race.
Things haven’t really gone as I expected.
Clem has the high mechanical level and the high risk-high reward style among foreign (and increasingly global) Terrans you kind of need to consistently go toe to toe with Serral and Reynor. And Heromarine has the rock solid, consistent play that’s good enough to beat almost anyone but that ends up running into a brick wall against a Serral/Reynor
But its Clem that’s dropped off just a little and HM has bridged the gap (slightly), which is kind of the opposite trajectory I was anticipating.
As Clem’s slight drop off has occurred when HM has been more competitive against those two, I dunno I think that points more to Clem struggling to maintain his levels with a super unforgiving style/Serral and Reynor adapting to his play than something purely down to maps.
Unless the maps particularly suit how HM approaches the game, which could be a part of it too
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On June 05 2022 22:30 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 18:00 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 12:36 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 11:51 tigera6 wrote:On June 05 2022 10:01 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored. Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable. Please tell me you are joking, this map pool is by far the worst one in recent years for Terran in TvZ, and even Clem admitted as much during one of his interview that the map pool is negatively impacting his play style. People have been, for years, deflecting any complaint about the strength of Zerg by saying it's a problem with the map pool. At least when they're not doing the mind-meltingly stupid "No, really, all the best players just happen to be Zerg" routine. Is this map pool notably bad? Sure. Maybe. I guess. But a different map pool wouldn't change the results, as evidence by the last several years of map pools changes not changing the results. Eeeeeh on the last mappool Clem was consistently dominating Serral and Reynor so at least for him it's undeniable the maps are the biggest factor Was it that much better a pool for Terrans than this? We haven’t had a bad pool for Zergs in forever, it’s just degrees of how much they suit the race. Things haven’t really gone as I expected. Clem has the high mechanical level and the high risk-high reward style among foreign (and increasingly global) Terrans you kind of need to consistently go toe to toe with Serral and Reynor. And Heromarine has the rock solid, consistent play that’s good enough to beat almost anyone but that ends up running into a brick wall against a Serral/Reynor But its Clem that’s dropped off just a little and HM has bridged the gap (slightly), which is kind of the opposite trajectory I was anticipating. As Clem’s slight drop off has occurred when HM has been more competitive against those two, I dunno I think that points more to Clem struggling to maintain his levels with a super unforgiving style/Serral and Reynor adapting to his play than something purely down to maps. Unless the maps particularly suit how HM approaches the game, which could be a part of it too I think its a combination, by the end of the last map pool, Clem style already got caught up by the other top Zerg, and I do remember Serral beat Clem convicingly in DH EU Winter last year. And to make matter worse, the new map pool further limit Clem success in the matchup. While HM style doesnt really depend on the map that much, hes more focused on the timing and all-in push rather than long engagement, and Maru style is about setting up defense and late game army control, Clem does depend more on the map layout (choke-rock-high ground, ect.) to set up his fighting position near Zerg base, forcing them to trade continuously and lose units over time.
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On June 05 2022 22:30 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2022 18:00 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 12:36 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 11:51 tigera6 wrote:On June 05 2022 10:01 QOGQOG wrote:On June 05 2022 07:07 Charoisaur wrote:On June 05 2022 06:23 WombaT wrote:On June 05 2022 04:54 Nakajin wrote:On June 05 2022 04:17 tigera6 wrote: Sorry to say, but Clem look outmatched, Reynor just too good at that kind of speed nowadays. You need to slow thing down to play Reynor more evenly, thats why I think HM has a better chance.. I'm sad that Clem may never become "the guy", I really hoped he could have been the heir of Serral and Reynor. It’s incredibly difficult, for Clem to be that guy, and for a time he was nailing it he’s got to play on their level but incredibly aggressively. There’s just innately less room for error in that playstyle than standard Zerg played incredibly well. The only real alternative we’ve seen the last couple of years is how Maru plays when he decides to split a map, and that’s possibly harder again. This isn’t a diss at Serral or Reynor, or a balance whine. They’re unbelievably good, are mechanical monsters and their decision making is almost always spot on. All things being equal, and I think they’re not far off (purely in TvZ), the rock solid defensive player should win out. I haven’t actually checked, so the numbers may be against me but I think Serral and Reynor have gradually got better against Clem since he ascended to his current level. I think the Zerg favored mappool plays a big role in that Coincidentally, every map pool for the last several years has been Zerg favored. Anyway, nice to see a non ZvZ finals coming up, even if it's probably going to be extremely one-sided. But congrats to HM! Making EU unpredictable. Please tell me you are joking, this map pool is by far the worst one in recent years for Terran in TvZ, and even Clem admitted as much during one of his interview that the map pool is negatively impacting his play style. People have been, for years, deflecting any complaint about the strength of Zerg by saying it's a problem with the map pool. At least when they're not doing the mind-meltingly stupid "No, really, all the best players just happen to be Zerg" routine. Is this map pool notably bad? Sure. Maybe. I guess. But a different map pool wouldn't change the results, as evidence by the last several years of map pools changes not changing the results. Eeeeeh on the last mappool Clem was consistently dominating Serral and Reynor so at least for him it's undeniable the maps are the biggest factor Was it that much better a pool for Terrans than this? We haven’t had a bad pool for Zergs in forever, it’s just degrees of how much they suit the race. Things haven’t really gone as I expected. Clem has the high mechanical level and the high risk-high reward style among foreign (and increasingly global) Terrans you kind of need to consistently go toe to toe with Serral and Reynor. And Heromarine has the rock solid, consistent play that’s good enough to beat almost anyone but that ends up running into a brick wall against a Serral/Reynor But its Clem that’s dropped off just a little and HM has bridged the gap (slightly), which is kind of the opposite trajectory I was anticipating. As Clem’s slight drop off has occurred when HM has been more competitive against those two, I dunno I think that points more to Clem struggling to maintain his levels with a super unforgiving style/Serral and Reynor adapting to his play than something purely down to maps. Unless the maps particularly suit how HM approaches the game, which could be a part of it too
Hardwire, Glittering Ashes, and Blackburn are significantly Zerg favored, and then there's....whatever Pride of Altaris is. This map pool is egregiously bad, but apparently a level playing field is too much to ask for, since ESL hasn't gotten off their asses to get it changed either.
I'm pretty sure Clem has said that the maps are difficult for him, and I'm inclined to take his word for it.
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Clem being down 15-20 army supply because of the workers count was killing him in any frontal fight. Maybe if Clem just give up the Viking count completely and gone with mass Ravens and more Marine-Tanks then he could have worked the comeback.
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I'm literally lolling at Gabe accidently sending his CC across the map. I've been watching SC2 since the beginning and I've never seen that hahaha
Someone in chat typed "planetary fortress rush?"
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What kind of strategy will Clem against Reynor this time? Don't just use the similar strategy like Banshees opener again as it is predictable.
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Why is Pride of Altaris still in the map pool?
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Whelp, that somehow felt not close at all... Could be a quick final!
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Clem on 3 base vs Reynor on 5 including the Gold, like what the actual F is this with Pride. ESL you gotta FIX IT, QUICK.
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On June 06 2022 03:47 patermatrix wrote: Whelp, that somehow felt not close at all... Could be a quick one!
Didn't feel close at any point . Map sucks but it also seems like Z is just way too strong at the absolute top level.
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On June 06 2022 03:47 swarminfestor wrote: Why is Pride of Altaris still in the map pool? Either ESL and the balance comittee are too lazy to review the new map pool, or there is an underlying issue that Zerg players need more help.
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On June 06 2022 03:47 swarminfestor wrote: Why is Pride of Altaris still in the map pool?
It shouldn't be. I think ESL is slow because we are not used to some ladder maps being so bad that tournament organizers need to intervene, but that's exactly what Pride is.
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I wonder which win felt more free for Reynor, the one he got being in the upper bracket or the one he got playing Pride of Altaris
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On June 06 2022 03:50 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 03:47 swarminfestor wrote: Why is Pride of Altaris still in the map pool? It shouldn't be. I think ESL is slow because we are not used to some ladder maps being so bad that tournament organizers need to intervene, but that's exactly what Pride is.
It was unfair when thinking that Reynor has already got one map advantage, which just 6 maps remaining. Clem should have veto that map right? Then, it should not be in the map pool for the final matches.
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Clem landed the 3rd CC and creep are 2 screen away, nice Zerg game. Edit: And 100 Drones.
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On June 06 2022 04:00 tigera6 wrote: Clem landed the 3rd CC and creep are 2 screen away, nice Zerg game. Edit: And 100 Drones.
Clem does it! I don't know how but he did!
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I only watch a few games every few months nowadays, but man I'm so glad to finally have a foreign terran that can be so solid and compared to what we've always seen before, consistent. And he's European ! And he's French ! Fuck yeah !
Every time i end up watching Clem vs Reynor or Clem vs Serral, those are absolute bangers
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I need an explanation for Reynor's decision to make 27 lurkers only supported by 30 lings against a terran that has 22 ghosts
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Clem making it more exciting with the last push
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Was so sure Clem had lost that game.
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Neither Clem nor Reynor are super great at lategame army control, and what we get is almost a throw from one guy to the other.
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Reynor's late game v T is really leagues worse than his early game
But it's understandable, you have to be as patient and tactical as Serral to beat it, which means only Serral can
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On June 06 2022 04:40 Durnuu wrote: I need an explanation for Reynor's decision to make 27 lurkers only supported by 30 lings against a terran that has 22 ghosts
Really weird, but we saw before that someone in desperate situation sometimes may showed unwise decision.
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good that mass infestor were bad for the game, but ghost +15 is accepted.
also nice that clem just snips away everything that has 2 or more sup, costs nothing.
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Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous.
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On June 06 2022 04:46 tigera6 wrote: Neither Clem nor Reynor are super great at lategame army control, and what we get is almost a throw from one guy to the other.
??? They are literally two of the best at lategame.
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On June 06 2022 04:47 t5Fab wrote: Reynor's late game v T is really leagues worse than his early game
But it's understandable, you have to be as patient and tactical as Serral to beat it, which means only Serral can
Hmmm if Serral faced Maru in late TvZ , I didn't think he could stand a chance especially in this map. All his blords+surpised burrowed infestor+fungals got obliterated by combinations of thors, hellbats, ghosts, and tanks.
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On June 06 2022 04:51 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 04:46 tigera6 wrote: Neither Clem nor Reynor are super great at lategame army control, and what we get is almost a throw from one guy to the other. ??? They are literally two of the best at lategame. compared to Maru and Serral they are clearly a bit worse but other than that you're of course right
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Reynor shouldn't have installed those windows updates...
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On June 06 2022 05:01 True_Spike wrote: These guys are just sick
^^
Hope we get a game 7!
On June 06 2022 05:01 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 04:51 Pandain wrote:On June 06 2022 04:46 tigera6 wrote: Neither Clem nor Reynor are super great at lategame army control, and what we get is almost a throw from one guy to the other. ??? They are literally two of the best at lategame. compared to Maru and Serral they are clearly a bit worse but other than that you're of course right
Agreed.
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On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough!
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On June 06 2022 04:51 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 04:46 tigera6 wrote: Neither Clem nor Reynor are super great at lategame army control, and what we get is almost a throw from one guy to the other. ??? They are literally two of the best at lategame. Thats why I used the word "super", that means comparing to the top tier players. Serral and Dark are better than Reynor at lategame, not because Reynor is worse in skill, but he just want to trade instead of playing the slow game. And Clem isnt in the same ballpark with Maru lategame.
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On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough!
It's 3-2 to the T. Your whining is fucking embarrassing.
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On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough!
It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid.
Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid.
This is the same.
On June 06 2022 05:11 Mozdk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's 3-2 to the T. Your whining is fucking embarrassing.
3-1. Reynor has a free game since he's coming from winners.
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Why not Reynor changing strategy to muta rather than keeping with ling+banes+ hydra?
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3-1. Reynor has a free game since he's coming from winners.
He's coming from winners because he 3-0'd Clem there though
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On June 06 2022 05:12 [PkF] Wire wrote: wth is Clem doing it ? Not with Glittering, that is a free win just like Pride. We will see how Blackburn goes.
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On June 06 2022 05:12 Coffeeling wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid. Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid. This is the same. Not at all wtf. Zerg wins lategame all the time. Maybe not super lategame split map scenario but in normal 5/6 base lategame Zerg is doing more than fine with the Mass Bane constant trading style
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On June 06 2022 05:13 swarminfestor wrote: Why not Reynor changing strategy to muta rather than keeping with ling+banes+ hydra? Clem is possibly better against Muta with his Marine and Mines control, forcing Clem to play mass Tanks is what Reynor probably wanted.
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Northern Ireland20675 Posts
On June 06 2022 05:26 tigera6 wrote:Not with Glittering, that is a free win just like Pride. We will see how Blackburn goes. It still boggles my mind that Pride made it in to this pool.
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Canada8755 Posts
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Reynor took many of those fights off-creep was head-scratching, but great win for Clem, hope he can return to that top form from 1 year ago. btw, ESL now gonna keep the same map pool for Valencia and beyond, lol.
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those banes behind the queens cost him the game
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Russian Federation5 Posts
Turned on the stream, still another series that I have watched 10000 times for the last 3,5 years. What a joke SC2 has become.
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On June 06 2022 05:43 Topin wrote: those banes behind the queens cost him the game It was terrible fight, it was off-creep, no bane speed , and Reynor wasnt mining from the gold anyway, he was better off waiting for 15-20 more secs for it.
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Russian Federation5 Posts
On June 06 2022 05:26 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:12 Coffeeling wrote:On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid. Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid. This is the same. Not at all, WTF? Zerg wins lategame all the time. Maybe not super lategame split map scenario but in normal 5/6 base lategame Zerg is doing more than fine with the Mass Bane constant trading style In what world? Zerg with +1 base has no chance against terran (when he reaches ghosts), with 2 maybe. In that stage Terrans starts trading absurdly efficiently. Wins like Terran with 25-33% map against Zerg 66-75% map are ordinary case.
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On June 06 2022 05:49 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:26 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2022 05:12 Coffeeling wrote:On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid. Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid. This is the same. Not at all, WTF? Zerg wins lategame all the time. Maybe not super lategame split map scenario but in normal 5/6 base lategame Zerg is doing more than fine with the Mass Bane constant trading style In what world? Zerg with +1 base has no chance against terran (when he reaches ghosts), with 2 maybe. In that stage Terrans starts trading absurdly efficiently. Wins like Terran with 25-33% map against Zerg 66-75% map is ordinary case.
Check some of the Reynor-Maru or Serral-Maru games from the past half year. Best answer to mass ghost is mass ling-bane attacks. They're very effective.
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Poor Reynor btw
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unfortunate ending, but it happens. thought the last game will be more spectacular.
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Russian Federation5 Posts
On June 06 2022 05:52 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:49 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote:On June 06 2022 05:26 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2022 05:12 Coffeeling wrote:On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid. Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid. This is the same. Not at all, WTF? Zerg wins lategame all the time. Maybe not super lategame split map scenario but in normal 5/6 base lategame Zerg is doing more than fine with the Mass Bane constant trading style In what world? Zerg with +1 base has no chance against terran (when he reaches ghosts), with 2 maybe. In that stage Terrans starts trading absurdly efficiently. Wins like Terran with 25-33% map against Zerg 66-75% map is ordinary case. Check some of the Reynor-Maru or Serral-Maru games from the past half year. Best answer to mass ghost is mass ling-bane attacks. They're very effective. The problem is, T can suddenly add some units to his 10+ ghosts. And it's GG. Ghosts, couple Tanks, Bio (composition may vary a little bit) and you can't bit that army composition at some point in game unless T makes a mistake himself and feeds. We have been watching this for 3,5 years now (after Broodlord-Infestor's era of 2018), no patches to make the game shift. Btw, rapid fire became absurd nowdays.
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Wow Clem, that was amazing ! Let's go NA now
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On June 06 2022 05:48 tigera6 wrote: It was terrible fight, it was off-creep, no bane speed , and Reynor wasnt mining from the gold anyway, he was better off waiting for 15-20 more secs for it. Yeah, this was one of those situations where Reynor would have profited from the painstaking patience characteristic of Serral. Serral would never have engaged in this way.
Congratulations to Clem and Reynor.
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On June 06 2022 05:52 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:49 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote:On June 06 2022 05:26 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2022 05:12 Coffeeling wrote:On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid. Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid. This is the same. Not at all, WTF? Zerg wins lategame all the time. Maybe not super lategame split map scenario but in normal 5/6 base lategame Zerg is doing more than fine with the Mass Bane constant trading style In what world? Zerg with +1 base has no chance against terran (when he reaches ghosts), with 2 maybe. In that stage Terrans starts trading absurdly efficiently. Wins like Terran with 25-33% map against Zerg 66-75% map is ordinary case. Check some of the Reynor-Maru or Serral-Maru games from the past half year. Best answer to mass ghost is mass ling-bane attacks. They're very effective. To be fair, when Maru reach THAT stage of mass Ghost lategame army setup, hes pretty near to unbeatable. Serral and Reynor, and Rogue, beat Maru by smashing him before he reach that point with lots of lingbane attack, or Muta sneak attack.
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On June 06 2022 06:01 Antithesis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:48 tigera6 wrote: It was terrible fight, it was off-creep, no bane speed , and Reynor wasnt mining from the gold anyway, he was better off waiting for 15-20 more secs for it. Yeah, this was one of those situations where Reynor would have profited from the painstaking patience characteristic of Serral. Serral would never have engaged in this way. Congratulations to Clem and Reynor. Totally agree, thats why I think Serral would have an easier time against Clem than Reynor did because hes playing almost flawlessly and taking no risk. Clem was doing next to no damage in the early game the whole match, and the only reason Reynor got caught was because he keep doing the same build timing (Hydra into Lurker) even when Clem had pre-emped it with double Tanks production in advance.
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France12463 Posts
Amazing run from Clem and HeroMarine, congratulations!
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On June 06 2022 05:59 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:52 Pandain wrote:On June 06 2022 05:49 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote:On June 06 2022 05:26 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2022 05:12 Coffeeling wrote:On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid. Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid. This is the same. Not at all, WTF? Zerg wins lategame all the time. Maybe not super lategame split map scenario but in normal 5/6 base lategame Zerg is doing more than fine with the Mass Bane constant trading style In what world? Zerg with +1 base has no chance against terran (when he reaches ghosts), with 2 maybe. In that stage Terrans starts trading absurdly efficiently. Wins like Terran with 25-33% map against Zerg 66-75% map is ordinary case. Check some of the Reynor-Maru or Serral-Maru games from the past half year. Best answer to mass ghost is mass ling-bane attacks. They're very effective. The problem is, T can suddenly add some units to his 10+ ghosts. And it's GG. Ghosts, couple Tanks, Bio (composition may vary a little bit) and you can't bit that army composition at some point in game unless T makes a mistake himself and feeds. We have been watching this for 3,5 years now (after Broodlord-Infestor's era of 2018), no patches to make the game shift. Btw, rapid fire became absurd nowdays. Well, this is just not true. Terran lategame trades more efficiently but by no way do they have an army that "can't be killed". And due to the usual economy advantage Zerg has they can overcome the lower efficiency quite easily UNLESS terran gets to split the map, but I'd argue if a Zerg lets a Terran take every base on his side of the map he deserves to lose because that can only happen if the Terran has outplayed the Zerg.
In short: lategame is balanced until split map scenario where it becomes terran favored.
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On June 06 2022 05:59 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 05:52 Pandain wrote:On June 06 2022 05:49 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote:On June 06 2022 05:26 Charoisaur wrote:On June 06 2022 05:12 Coffeeling wrote:On June 06 2022 05:03 Athenau wrote:On June 06 2022 04:51 Coffeeling wrote: Day #84305683 of Ghosts being ridiculous. It's ok, Zerg doesn't need to win every game. Sometimes just winning 90% of the time is enough! It's not about the Z win rate. It's just absurd that Ghosts invalidate the entire higher end of the Zerg tech tree. The best answer to Ghosts Zerg have is literally Ghosts. It's just stupid. Remember the time when PvZ was 50/50, but the entire matchup was about whether Z can hold off the 1-1-1 because the 1-1-1 was busted but the only thing that worked, and lategame Z just mopped toss? It was stupid. Fair, but stupid. This is the same. Not at all, WTF? Zerg wins lategame all the time. Maybe not super lategame split map scenario but in normal 5/6 base lategame Zerg is doing more than fine with the Mass Bane constant trading style In what world? Zerg with +1 base has no chance against terran (when he reaches ghosts), with 2 maybe. In that stage Terrans starts trading absurdly efficiently. Wins like Terran with 25-33% map against Zerg 66-75% map is ordinary case. Check some of the Reynor-Maru or Serral-Maru games from the past half year. Best answer to mass ghost is mass ling-bane attacks. They're very effective. The problem is, T can suddenly add some units to his 10+ ghosts. And it's GG. Ghosts, couple Tanks, Bio (composition may vary a little bit) and you can't bit that army composition at some point in game unless T makes a mistake himself and feeds. We have been watching this for 3,5 years now (after Broodlord-Infestor's era of 2018), no patches to make the game shift. Btw, rapid fire became absurd nowdays.
I know what you're trying to say but the pro results just don't bear out what you're saying. Like I said check out the Maru-Serral (2x) or Reynor-Maru games. Those are just the latest S-class examples.
The more the T is forced to change comp, so too can the zerg. And banelings are good man against everything but tanks.
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Erf, disappointing result for Scarlett. PvP finals can be fun though.
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On June 06 2022 07:19 [PkF] Wire wrote: Erf, disappointing result for Scarlett. PvP finals can be fun though.
Let's go Max Angel!
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On June 06 2022 07:36 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 07:19 [PkF] Wire wrote: Erf, disappointing result for Scarlett. PvP finals can be fun though. Let's go Max Angel! I like them both, no favorite here for me, I just hope we get good games !
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Canada8755 Posts
On June 06 2022 07:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 07:36 Pandain wrote:On June 06 2022 07:19 [PkF] Wire wrote: Erf, disappointing result for Scarlett. PvP finals can be fun though. Let's go Max Angel! I like them both, no favorite here for me, I just hope we get good games !
Carefull, your inner Korean is showing
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great 1st game
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On June 06 2022 05:44 Joyfulbeekeeper wrote: Turned on the stream, still another series that I have watched 10000 times for the last 3,5 years. What a joke SC2 has become.
You should learn from me
I usually just skip the first 10minutes of every single TvZ. Since it’s all the same boring start. You ain’t missing much unless it’s some sort of all in
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Canada8755 Posts
On June 06 2022 08:00 Topin wrote:great 1st game
Game 2 is also peak NA pvp, great stuff, looks both exausting and infuriating to play lol
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On June 06 2022 07:51 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2022 07:39 [PkF] Wire wrote:On June 06 2022 07:36 Pandain wrote:On June 06 2022 07:19 [PkF] Wire wrote: Erf, disappointing result for Scarlett. PvP finals can be fun though. Let's go Max Angel! I like them both, no favorite here for me, I just hope we get good games ! Carefull, your inner Korean is showing so far I'm rewarded lol
g2 is really the pinnacle of NA PvP
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this is so perfect, give me more of this
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hahahaaha wtf was that game xD
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even Astrea was laughing his ass out when it ended. That was glorious
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Canada8755 Posts
This serie is a the perfect dessert for a day of SC2
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congrats Neeb
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Neeb's recent success seems to stem from mixing his play up a lot more. He was doing this somewhat in 2020 but that translated to cheesing a ridiculous number of games and tanking his winrate against weaker players. Now he seems to be better at build order selection and balancing his approach during games. Hopefully he stays motivated.
Disk also had a really good tournament, on the NA side of things. His pvp is really sharp.
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Wait does Serral have to play the open bracket now? Holy moly he will get cheesed out
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Are there replays released for this>?
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Hmm I heard that Rogue and Trap were going to give up this tournament. Also, Maru may not present too unless he decides to play the open bracket.
I am bit thrilled after seeing Serral failed to qualify, and Clem succeeded on taking the throne instead. Now, with no Rogue and Trap in the upcoming tournament (and possibly Maru too), it definitely takes away enjoyment out of watching the game.
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On June 10 2022 12:55 swarminfestor wrote: Hmm I heard that Rogue and Trap were going to give up this tournament. Also, Maru may not present too unless he decides to play the open bracket.
If Rogue and Trap arent not joining, they probably would pick the next 2 player from GSL, which are Maru and Byun, to replace them into that Group Stage 3. But there has been no indication that the guys cant join the DH tournament. Personally, I think these guys just want to limit their traveling outside of KR, so they will go to Valencia but then will have to wait for a while more to travel again so they skip HSC, but thats just me. As for Maru, he already signed up for the Open Bracket stage, so I guess ,and hope, that he will join no matter what.
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On June 10 2022 13:00 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2022 12:55 swarminfestor wrote: Hmm I heard that Rogue and Trap were going to give up this tournament. Also, Maru may not present too unless he decides to play the open bracket.
If Rogue and Trap arent not joining, they probably would pick the next 2 player from GSL, which are Maru and Byun, to replace them into that Group Stage 3. But there has been no indication that the guys cant join the DH tournament. Personally, I think these guys just want to limit their traveling outside of KR, so they will go to Valencia but then will have to wait for a while more to travel again so they skip HSC, but thats just me. As for Maru, he already signed up for the Open Bracket stage, so I guess ,and hope, that he will join no matter what.
I am glad that Maru decides to join the Open Bracket.
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