TSL 7 - Losers Round 2 & 3

On June 21 2021 00:12 Rob-Zero wrote:
Heromarine clearly affected by the ping, as it is always the worst for the terrans and easy for the zerg. That´s sad, offline he would have stomped Dark, who really doesn´t look very strong

On June 21 2021 00:53 Elentos wrote:
True to form, Special is still relying on builds TY was using in 2018

On June 21 2021 00:57 sneakyfox wrote:


Tbf TY also tends to rely on builds TY was using in 2018

On June 21 2021 01:07 JJH777 wrote:
Serrals rate of spotting proxy rax early is so much higher than other Zergs.

On June 21 2021 01:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
That was a relatively good game from Special, and a relatively poor one from Serral given the start.

On June 21 2021 01:58 sneakyfox wrote:
Crazy that Dark and Clem have only ever played a single map against each other (won by Clem in the WTL).

On June 21 2021 02:47 Durnuu wrote:
Dark and getting 3/3 + adrenal glands in low economy games, name a more iconic duo

On June 21 2021 02:19 Durnuu wrote:

Not that crazy considering Clem has only recently started being good and region lock being a thing

On June 21 2021 03:19 JJH777 wrote:
I wish Dark would play Mutas once.

On June 21 2021 03:37 stilt wrote:
Lately, I feel like kor zerg have a superior approach to their eu counterpart in this meta.
Anyway, this game was a superb zerg gameplay by Dark, gg

On June 21 2021 03:42 ZigguratOfUr wrote:


I don't really agree. It's not just timings, he keeps on winning all these multi-task focused late games against the EU zergs too (on Romanticide especially). But Dark managed to get the counterattacks in that the EU zergs don't seem able to make work.

On June 21 2021 03:53 Shathe wrote:
Dark casually juggling viper, infestor, ravager mid game againts BIO...

On June 21 2021 03:53 Shathe wrote:
Dark casually juggling viper, infestor, ravager mid game againts BIO...

On June 21 2021 04:08 Morbidius wrote:
Clem is pretty good, but he is overhyped(not overrated). He pretty much has more hype behind him right now than Serral had going into Blizzcon 2018.

On June 21 2021 04:15 ZigguratOfUr wrote:


Well he has another chance to prove himself in 17 hours against Maru in NeXT.

On June 21 2021 07:51 JJH777 wrote:


It's not just that it affects Terran the most. It's also that the ping for Korea to NA is worse than most of EU to NA. That's especially true for western EU.

For Western EU countries it would actually be far more fair to play all games on NA West.

A lot of people have called Serral GOAT. Especially on Reddit. That is overhype. For current skill rather than overall achievement I'll agree that he's generally been rated fairly though maybe slightly overhyped at times.

On June 21 2021 08:55 JJH777 wrote:


Data posted here of which there has been very little has always indicated that Koreans are getting the short end with ping.

You can also use a website like this one: https://wondernetwork.com/

Plugging in some locations on that site shows EU is dramatically favored. EU countries have less than 100 ping to the east coast. Korea is almost 200. France literally has 70 ping to the eastern half of the US. Korea vs France on NA west would be 140ping for France vs 136 ping for Korea. Korea vs France on NA East would be nearly 200 ping vs 70 ping.

And yes I know this site and others like it aren't going to translate perfectly to SC2 but ultimately nothing is because one of the most important things is the individual players connections which we have no info on.

Edit: I was incorrect on the distances. Not sure how as I was putting it into Google as I was typing the post but just did it again and got different numbers.

On June 21 2021 07:30 Xain0n wrote:
Isn't it fun that the same people who were sure lag was the main reason for which Reynor beat Maru now aren't saying anything about ping affecting Terran the most?
Just pick one, guys.

I, for one, will be really interested to watch Clem play against the style Dark displayed on LAN or the same server; thus said, this series was truly good from Dark.

Speaking of overhype, everyone seem to genuinely love Clem and the idea of a foreign Terran eventually being a top player.
Once Serral started winning, he was never overhyped.

On June 21 2021 09:48 JJH777 wrote:


I live in California and using a wifi connection I get 170 ping to France. My ping to Seoul is 162. Using a lan connection would lower that a bit. That's very close together and roughly matches the percent difference from that website. That's still lower than Korea to NA East according to that site and I live as far from France as possible in the US besides Alaska. I also live in a rural area of California which will get worse pings on average than a city due in part to limited providers. For Paris to New York 70 ping seems reasonable depending on the quality of your ISP.

There is no way that playing on NA East is ever fair for Korea unless the country is in Eastern Europe.

Your flair says you live in Italy. Why don't you use speed test to see what your ping is to New York? Shouldn't be dramatically different from France. Maybe 10-20 ping.

On June 21 2021 09:54 Vindicare605 wrote:


For the record, I never blamed ping once for why Maru lost to Reynor. I blamed his completely stupid build order in game 4 when he gave the game away. I also blamed the map pool a little because Romanticide and Pillars of Gold are VERY Zerg favored in my opinion.

Funny how you were absent from this thread until your golden boy lost to a Zerg who you continue to never give the proper respect to because you're still mad about him winning Blizzcon that one year.

On June 21 2021 10:11 tigera6 wrote:

And which one do YOU pick? I am sure you dont want to say that EU Zerg got "lucky" because of Ping, but you dont want to say that Clem "hit the wall" with Dark who looked like outplaying him. Perosnally, I think Maru turtling style has less to do with Ping advantage/disavantage, or maybe he chose that style because of the ping problem and never got out of it. Clem style, who often prefer to send 85-90% of his army into the other side, seems to get read by Dark perfectly and his counter was spot-on in most of the series. To me, it wasnt about "the lag" but rather a strategic win for Dark.

Clem is a great Terran player already, but his "overhype" coming from people ALREADY calling him "the best Terran/player in the world" by literally beating the hell out of Reynor & Serral in the last couple months. I understand that EU crowd love to hype up "their own product", but to say a guy who hasnt yet won a global premiere tournament as THE top player seems to be a bit much. For the record, I still think Reynor is the reigning World Champ, obviously, until we get another interim-champ after the next DH Global or so.

On June 21 2021 09:54 Vindicare605 wrote:


For the record, I never blamed ping once for why Maru lost to Reynor. I blamed his completely stupid build order in game 4 when he gave the game away. I also blamed the map pool a little because Romanticide and Pillars of Gold are VERY Zerg favored in my opinion.

Funny how you were absent from this thread until your golden boy lost to a Zerg who you continue to never give the proper respect to because you're still mad about him winning Blizzcon that one year.

On June 21 2021 12:26 swarminfestor wrote:


I thought he targeting all the Korean players who demolished his favorite foreign players and the hatred goes to the players like Rogue, Maru and Dark as far as I remembered trying to disqualify their obvious dominant performances by whatever he thought the reason.

On June 21 2021 12:46 SamirDuran wrote:
I love how this thread goes from respecting and celebrating a win for Dark to a thread full of arguments just because his wonderboy lost

On June 21 2021 12:53 Morbidius wrote:
A high profile foreigner loss would not be complete without Xainon blaming it on something else and going on a stupid rant insulting every poster.

On June 21 2021 07:30 Xain0n wrote:
Isn't it fun that the same people who were sure lag was the main reason for which Reynor beat Maru now aren't saying anything about ping affecting Terran the most?
Just pick one, guys.

I, for one, will be really interested to watch Clem play against the style Dark displayed on LAN or the same server; thus said, this series was truly good from Dark.

Speaking of overhype, everyone seem to genuinely love Clem and the idea of a foreign Terran eventually being a top player.
Once Serral started winning, he was never overhyped.

On June 21 2021 18:01 Harris1st wrote:
I think Reynor and Serral should send Dark a gift basket for kicking out Clem :D

On June 21 2021 15:58 Poopi wrote:

Yes, Clem is a bit more at a disadvantage playing TvZ cross server than a zerg opponent (but he has time zone advantage), hard to quantify by how much though.
But in TvT you are as disadvantaged as the opponent given equal ping, so we would have to see their respective pings.
It’s merely a code A Terran though...

On June 21 2021 13:36 starkiller123 wrote:

its honestly a staple of TL these days lol

On June 21 2021 12:26 swarminfestor wrote:


I thought he targeting all the Korean players who demolished his favorite foreign players and the hatred goes to the players like Rogue, Maru and Dark as far as I remembered trying to disqualify their obvious dominant performances by whatever he thought the reason.

On June 21 2021 20:32 Charoisaur wrote:

Also he's salty because Dark beat down a player that trashes Serral lately, proving that he has superior ZvT compared to him.

On June 22 2021 02:28 Nakajin wrote:
TLO predictions are too easy, anyone wanna sing bet that Serral will win both TSL 7 and Next?

On June 22 2021 02:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:


Do you think he will win them both, or do you think he'll lose at least one?