EPT[GSL 2021] Super Tournament 1 - Finals Day - Page 6
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outscar
2832 Posts
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RKC
2848 Posts
He mentioned about PvP being his weakest MU during the interview. And he beat Zoun who had 2 PvP clean sweeps. True, Trap may have had the advantage of peeking into Zoun's matches. But the time gap was still rather tight, so he couldn't really prep much anyway. | ||
Poopi
France13022 Posts
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Husyelt
United States839 Posts
I do want to say balance wise TvP currently looks like a nightmare to play at the top level. Half of the mid game is just watching footmen in armor try to catch cavalry. Stims upon stims trying to catch up with the phoenix and positional advantages the Protoss can yield by simply choosing a different path. And I think the maps have too many escape routes for failed/false attacks. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27464 Posts
Having banged the Trap drum for forever, albeit not as fervently as Gemini it’s nice to see he’s getting results so good he can’t really be ignored in conversations about the best players around, and Zoun is a pretty interesting player stylistically. I wonder what it is about Super Tournaments that seem to boost power levels of the Protoss contingent quite considerably vs both GSL as well as international weekenders. | ||
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QOGQOG
834 Posts
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ssg
United States1779 Posts
On January 30 2021 23:17 outscar wrote: What the hell, Trap is destroying everyone lately. Another couple GSLs and we can consider him as toss GOAT? For sure. MC Exists | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
MC? Lol But yeah, not yet. Zest is still ahead overall. If Trap wins IEM, then matbe, and if he adds GSL to that then yeah, for sure  | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On January 31 2021 08:05 MarianoSC2 wrote: The gap between Zest's career achievements and Trap's career achievements is still substantial enough that even if Trap wins Katowice it's a hard no, not a maybe. MC? Lol But yeah, not yet. Zest is still ahead overall. If Trap wins IEM, then matbe, and if he adds GSL to that then yeah, for sure | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 31 2021 08:05 MarianoSC2 wrote: MC? Lol But yeah, not yet. Zest is still ahead overall. If Trap wins IEM, then matbe, and if he adds GSL to that then yeah, for sure Zest won 2 Code S titles and 1 IEM WC title. MC won 2 Code S titles and 1 IEM WC title. Both won some other tournaments(like HSC). If MC is lol, so is Zest. It's not like we have any other Protoss with such heavy titles. Classic and Rain are close, if only Classic won that IEM If Trap wins the IEM he overtakes both Rain and Classic, but he has no chance in overtaking neither of MC or Zest.Edit> Actually, considering the IEM is online, we may talk about the fact Rain won Code S and Starleague and Classic won SSL and a Code S title. Stats has these 2 titles as well. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On January 31 2021 08:52 deacon.frost wrote: Zest won 2 Code S titles and 1 IEM WC title. MC won 2 Code S titles and 1 IEM WC title. Both won some other tournaments(like HSC). If MC is lol, so is Zest. It's not like we have any other Protoss with such heavy titles. Classic and Rain are close, if only Classic won that IEM If Trap wins the IEM he overtakes both Rain and Classic, but he has no chance in overtaking neither of MC or Zest.Edit> Actually, considering the IEM is online, we may talk about the fact Rain won Code S and Starleague and Classic won SSL and a Code S title. Stats has these 2 titles as well. MC? I really love his attitude and antics. His 'ez man list' comment really tickles me to this day (I even occasionally use variants in my everyday conversation). But *cough cough* weak era.... A pure quantitative measurement of GOAT just don't work. Some trophies are worth more than others. Some premier tourneys are more 'premier' than others. Top 3 Protoss GOAT contenders would be Trap, Stats, and Classic. sOs and Zest are wildcards (form just too erratic). I really love Rain, but his SC2 reign was just too short to qualify in the GOAT discussion... | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On January 31 2021 12:36 RKC wrote: MC? I really love his attitude and antics. His 'ez man list' comment really tickles me to this day (I even occasionally use variants in my everyday conversation). But *cough cough* weak era.... A pure quantitative measurement of GOAT just don't work. Some trophies are worth more than others. Some premier tourneys are more 'premier' than others. Top 3 Protoss GOAT contenders would be Trap, Stats, and Classic. sOs and Zest are wildcards (form just too erratic). I really love Rain, but his SC2 reign was just too short to qualify in the GOAT discussion... This is some heavy recency bias. Trap may be in the discussion but no way is he above either Zest or sOs, players who have displayed their prowess over multiple expansions and who have, pound for pound, significantly more prestigious wins than Trap which you yourself say are significant measures when it comes to determining GOAT status. Trap has only won 4 titles which could be considered premier and he hasn't even got a starleague, blizzcon or iem Katowice. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On January 31 2021 17:47 Z3nith wrote: This is some heavy recency bias. Trap may be in the discussion but no way is he above either Zest or sOs, players who have displayed their prowess over multiple expansions and who have, pound for pound, significantly more prestigious wins than Trap which you yourself say are significant measures when it comes to determining GOAT status. Trap has only won 4 titles which could be considered premier and he hasn't even got a starleague, blizzcon or iem Katowice. Agreed. That's why I put Zest and sOs still within Top 5. I should've said that I was going by a more 'objective' view that most other people would agree. My main point was dismissing MC totally as a Toss dragon (and yes, same goes with Parting). The problem with 2020 is the lack of offline international tourneys and Blizzcon being shelved, So Stats and Traps being on the upswing kinda got shafted. Personally? My Top 3 is Classic, sOs and Zest. Trap and Stats are still stuck at Kong silver surfer level  | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On January 31 2021 18:25 RKC wrote: Agreed. That's why I put Zest and sOs still within Top 5. I should've said that I was going by a more 'objective' view that most other people would agree. My main point was dismissing MC totally as a Toss dragon (and yes, same goes with Parting). The problem with 2020 is the lack of offline international tourneys and Blizzcon being shelved, So Stats and Traps being on the upswing kinda got shafted. Personally? My Top 3 is Classic, sOs and Zest. Trap and Stats are still stuck at Kong silver surfer level Trap doesn't belong in the top 5 to begin with. In terms of the amount of tournaments they've won AND the quality of tournaments they've won (as Code S and its OSL/SSL equivalents, Katowice and Blizzcon clearly are the most important events) AND the longevity of their top player status - Zest, Stats, Classic, sOs, MC, CJ herO and Rain (not in order) are all pretty clearly above Trap. And that's only individual achievements and not considering Proleague at all. There's a solid case for Liquid HerO and PartinG as well. To dismiss MC because the competition was what it was is not really fair. He could only beat what was in front of him and so he did. It took many years for another Protoss to finally match his GSL results. And many people were still arguing in favor of Mvp after Inno tied him in Code S wins so that has to count for something  | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16103 Posts
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Harris1st
Germany7427 Posts
On a more serious note, Traps play recently is very impressive and he is now in my top 5 "Who will win IEM" Zoun also had a marvelous run and I really hope to see more of him this year | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States46532 Posts
On January 31 2021 19:09 Charoisaur wrote: Zest, sOs and Stats are clear top 3 Protoss GOATs, their achievements are far above any other Protoss player. The order of them is probably interchangeable though - I think I'd say Zest > sOs > Stats MC  | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
On January 31 2021 18:57 Elentos wrote: Trap doesn't belong in the top 5 to begin with. In terms of the amount of tournaments they've won AND the quality of tournaments they've won (as Code S and its OSL/SSL equivalents, Katowice and Blizzcon clearly are the most important events) AND the longevity of their top player status - Zest, Stats, Classic, sOs, MC, CJ herO and Rain (not in order) are all pretty clearly above Trap. And that's only individual achievements and not considering Proleague at all. There's a solid case for Liquid HerO and PartinG as well. To dismiss MC because the competition was what it was is not really fair. He could only beat what was in front of him and so he did. It took many years for another Protoss to finally match his GSL results. And many people were still arguing in favor of Mvp after Inno tied him in Code S wins so that has to count for something Funny how most people overlook Dear. I don't rate him highly for the same reason as MC. They lacked the longevity over different eras and expansions. Unfortunately, same as Rain (though I'm quite positive he would have reached Top 3 GOAT had he stayed on SC2). Mvp is not in my Top 3 Terran GOAT. Maybe not even in Top 5. Of course, I'm sure many would strongly disagree EDIT: Of course, Top 3 Zerg GOAT debate is perhaps the most fiery of all... | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12134 Posts
On January 31 2021 19:09 Charoisaur wrote: Zest, sOs and Stats are clear top 3 Protoss GOATs, their achievements are far above any other Protoss player. The order of them is probably interchangeable though - I think I'd say Zest > sOs > Stats sOs > Zest, MC > Stats, Rain, Classic > Dear, Trap On January 31 2021 21:22 RKC wrote: Funny how most people overlook Dear. I don't rate him highly for the same reason as MC. They lacked the longevity over different eras and expansions. Unfortunately, same as Rain (though I'm quite positive he would have reached Top 3 GOAT had he stayed on SC2). Mvp is not in my Top 3 Terran GOAT. Maybe not even in Top 5. Of course, I'm sure many would strongly disagree EDIT: Of course, Top 3 Zerg GOAT debate is perhaps the most fiery of all... Rain won a title at 2012 and 2015. 3 years. Wol and HotS champion. 3 years, 2 different eras, 2 different versions, multiple patches. | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
Yes, on reflection, maybe I would slip Rain in Top 5. Shame he has left BW as well | ||
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