On December 06 2020 18:27 M3t4PhYzX wrote: wait.. so this is not double elimination from ro32 but only from ro16?
duuuuude.. what?! this legit gotta be one of the absolute worst format ideas ever. What the actual fuck.. come on T _ T
the reasoning behind it is that they only had 3 weekends for the event. If they would have included Ro32 lower matches it would have taken an additional week which just is not there.
Also imo this format is way better compared to the 24DEBracket they used last time.
On December 06 2020 18:27 M3t4PhYzX wrote: wait.. so this is not double elimination from ro32 but only from ro16?
duuuuude.. what?! this legit gotta be one of the absolute worst format ideas ever. What the actual fuck.. come on T _ T
So what you're saying is that the next time the tourney should start from the ro16?
Or just play the first round of the lower bracket off-stream and let community casters cover it.
This is actually a very good idea. Personally I hate the fact that you are eliminated from the tourney losing just 1 match. You could get a really unlucky draw with this format. Also, the fact that some players get additional lives and some don't is just meh
On December 06 2020 22:41 Durnuu wrote: Yeah it's pretty damn confusing to have a losers brackets and half the players don't go there when they lose a match.
TSL organizers have a thing some tricky brackets. That said, I find this one pretty good, way better than the TSL 5 one.
On December 06 2020 18:27 M3t4PhYzX wrote: wait.. so this is not double elimination from ro32 but only from ro16?
duuuuude.. what?! this legit gotta be one of the absolute worst format ideas ever. What the actual fuck.. come on T _ T
So what you're saying is that the next time the tourney should start from the ro16?
Or just play the first round of the lower bracket off-stream and let community casters cover it.
This is actually a very good idea. Personally I hate the fact that you are eliminated from the tourney losing just 1 match. You could get a really unlucky draw with this format. Also, the fact that some players get additional lives and some don't is just meh
It's a BO5 though, which is not as volatile as BO3, so it's not that bad.
On December 06 2020 18:27 M3t4PhYzX wrote: wait.. so this is not double elimination from ro32 but only from ro16?
duuuuude.. what?! this legit gotta be one of the absolute worst format ideas ever. What the actual fuck.. come on T _ T
So what you're saying is that the next time the tourney should start from the ro16?
Or just play the first round of the lower bracket off-stream and let community casters cover it.
This is actually a very good idea. Personally I hate the fact that you are eliminated from the tourney losing just 1 match. You could get a really unlucky draw with this format. Also, the fact that some players get additional lives and some don't is just meh
It's a BO5 though, which is not as volatile as BO3, so it's not that bad.
yeah I agree, I find the format not that bad as well ; but ofc, if you're a Trap fan for instance, then you've got good reasons and have every right to dislike it wholeheartedly ^^
On December 06 2020 18:27 M3t4PhYzX wrote: wait.. so this is not double elimination from ro32 but only from ro16?
duuuuude.. what?! this legit gotta be one of the absolute worst format ideas ever. What the actual fuck.. come on T _ T
So what you're saying is that the next time the tourney should start from the ro16?
Or just play the first round of the lower bracket off-stream and let community casters cover it.
This is actually a very good idea. Personally I hate the fact that you are eliminated from the tourney losing just 1 match. You could get a really unlucky draw with this format. Also, the fact that some players get additional lives and some don't is just meh
It's a BO5 though, which is not as volatile as BO3, so it's not that bad.
yeah I agree, I find the format not that bad as well ; but ofc, if you're a Trap fan for instance, then you've got good reasons and have every right to dislike it wholeheartedly ^^
It's shit for every player who needs EPT points for the Katowice race because the first round gives no points, if you lose you're out right away and you'll generally have a worse seed for the first round and thus play a more difficult opponent.
Did ogaming not realize it starts 1hour earlier, or they didn't want to cast Lambo vs Cure? Rotterdam is a good caster too but I wanted to see more of Stephano casting in french!
Lambo just had too little eco in the end yet still it nearly was enough. Lurkers are scary, and they didnt even have viper support. Anyhow, fun series. Especially that campaign mission Cure needed to complete in the 3rd game
For Observer Plus battle report, what does damage percent mean? It doesn’t seem that useful if we already see units lost on each side and value of units lost to know who got the better end of the trade. The damage percent bar adds a lot of clutter and makes it hard to quickly process all the information.
Maybe it would be better to get rid of damage percent and skills used, and focus on just units lost, value of units lost, and the hero unit on each side that did the most damage.
On December 07 2020 02:59 Zzoram wrote: For Observer Plus battle report, what does damage percent mean? It doesn’t seem that useful if we already see units lost on each side and value of units lost. The damage percent bar adds a lot of clutter and makes it hard to quickly process all the information.
Maybe it would be better to get rid of damage percent and skills used, and focus on just units lost, value of units lost, and the hero unit on each side that did the most damage.
Agreed. The battle report is really awkward to use--it blocks the field of vision, so you have to be very careful about when to use it to not lose sight of the action, and it has so much information that you have to keep it up for a significant amount of time for the viewer to be able to read it. Not a great viewer experience.
Maybe production can get better at using it, but it probably needs less information regardless, so that the viewer can register the info faster.
Just two bars of unit symbols with numbers and the resource values of them below would work, and could be stuck in the top right corner. The symbols really don't need to be any bigger than on the production tab IMO.
On December 07 2020 02:59 Zzoram wrote: For Observer Plus battle report, what does damage percent mean?
first time seeing it, one player's resources lost as 100% and the other as percent of that maybe?
TvP once a robo facility is confirmed or a prism is seen and you already have six+ medivacs, would it be reasonable to get at least one viking always? They aren't that pricey.
On December 07 2020 03:12 irvnasty wrote: Feels like a quick Solar victory, but I'd love to see DRG show something in ZvZ.
ZvZ AND a team-kill? prolly some weirdass games coming
* I guess it's not technically a team-kill but the Freecs & Friends Zerg clique is like the EU Zerg clique in terms of knowing each other's strats it seems
On December 07 2020 03:12 irvnasty wrote: Feels like a quick Solar victory, but I'd love to see DRG show something in ZvZ.
ZvZ AND a team-kill? prolly some weirdass games coming
* I guess it's not technically a team-kill but the Freecs & Friends Zerg clique is like the EU Zerg clique in terms of knowing each other's strats it seems
DRG isn't even on Afreeca Freecs anymore It's just gonna be a stomp for Solar considering DRG's ZvZ level
On December 07 2020 03:12 irvnasty wrote: Feels like a quick Solar victory, but I'd love to see DRG show something in ZvZ.
ZvZ AND a team-kill? prolly some weirdass games coming
* I guess it's not technically a team-kill but the Freecs & Friends Zerg clique is like the EU Zerg clique in terms of knowing each other's strats it seems
DRG isn't even on Afreeca Freecs anymore It's just gonna be a stomp for Solar considering DRG's ZvZ level
whatever im gonna call elazer & friends the Qlash zergs forever
The carapace > attack theory in muta vs. muta ignores that mutas rarely end up fighting in a battle that doesn't just come down to numbers, and the mutas mostly fight other things.
On December 07 2020 03:24 irvnasty wrote: The carapace > attack theory in muta vs. muta ignores that mutas rarely end up fighting in a battle that doesn't just come down to numbers, and the mutas mostly fight other things.
yep, its a remnant of bw zvz where muta wars are almost the only way to go
Special botched that defense versus the broodlords soooo bad. Left his units clumped against banelings and in the open against broodlords. Just delay the fight and move behind sim city. Didn’t even have tanks sieges ffs
Casters were ignoring it a bit, but ye elazer fakes going ling bane and went for a 1/1 roach attack instead not needing bane speed. It looked like Special didnt enough damage though and profited from elazer not having bane speed but alas.
Also how many roach/ravager 1/1 "all ins" does it take on Oxide for terrans to just take the linear expansion. The whole reason zergs go for the roach attack on this map is because of the open area at the triangle third right, is the linear 3rd such a big downside or..
On December 07 2020 05:12 ilax30 wrote: Guess its a good thing Special plays in LATAM farming some money and season finals spot..
When he’s good he’s better than Elazer. But lately he’s had some glaringly bad play. Huge fan of his and watching him play like this is really frustrating honestly. Seems like things he can fix though, especially unit positioning and micro
On December 07 2020 05:12 ilax30 wrote: Guess its a good thing Special plays in LATAM farming some money and season finals spot..
When he’s good he’s better than Elazer. But lately he’s had some glaringly bad play. Huge fan of his and watching him play like this is really frustrating honestly. Seems like things he can fix though, especially unit positioning and micro
in this particular case i think ping was an issue unless he is having a really bad day. well played by Elazer though
On December 07 2020 05:12 ilax30 wrote: Guess its a good thing Special plays in LATAM farming some money and season finals spot..
When he’s good he’s better than Elazer. But lately he’s had some glaringly bad play. Huge fan of his and watching him play like this is really frustrating honestly. Seems like things he can fix though, especially unit positioning and micro
Yea I dunno anymore with Special, obviously he suddenly isnt a tier 3 terran, but I think I'm just gonna stop overestimate him in these matches. He shouldnt get back to his old lvl anymore, but I doubt he will do worse next year, bit rough.
On December 07 2020 05:12 ilax30 wrote: Guess its a good thing Special plays in LATAM farming some money and season finals spot..
Yeah, and farming those easy Code S spots. (when he can be in Korea)
With all due respect in season 3 we had players like Spear,Bomber and Nightmare qualifying. Even though Special isnt that fantastic anymore, qualifying for GSL shouldnt really be a issue still these days.. But then again he did get beaten quite easily by Spear, so who knows.
On December 07 2020 05:12 ilax30 wrote: Guess its a good thing Special plays in LATAM farming some money and season finals spot..
When he’s good he’s better than Elazer. But lately he’s had some glaringly bad play. Huge fan of his and watching him play like this is really frustrating honestly. Seems like things he can fix though, especially unit positioning and micro
in this particular case i think ping was an issue unless he is having a really bad day. well played by Elazer though
Oh I’m sure ping had an effect. But things like having two siege tanks and 8 marines with no sim city at home when he sees a Zerg spamming roach/ravager after having his fourth denied a couple times is very confusing and not ping related
But anyway I don’t wanna be too harsh. I know he’s spent time doing things other than sc2 which are good for him and everyone has responsibilities + other interests. Just hoping he learns from his mistakes and gets better because I’m a huge fan and he’s got many others
On December 07 2020 05:12 ilax30 wrote: Guess its a good thing Special plays in LATAM farming some money and season finals spot..
Yeah, and farming those easy Code S spots. (when he can be in Korea)
With all due respect in season 3 we had players like Spear,Bomber and Nightmare qualifying. Even though Special isnt that fantastic anymore, qualifying for GSL shouldnt really be a issue still these days.. But then again he did get beaten quite easily by Spear, so who knows.
Just remember--he lost all the games because of lag, even on the server that would theoretically have benefitted him.
On December 07 2020 06:11 TentativePanda wrote: Im pretty curious how Dark is gonna play. Havent watched his games recently but the results have been all over the place. I like when hes good
He's been liking lurkers a lot, but not sure how he'll play if uThermal busts out mech.
Atleast its nice Korea always gets 3 games on west and just the 2 on central for the people that keep saying its unfair for Koreans. We keep talking about the timezones but if you start kinda early against a foreigner you play at a decent time and have the ping advantage which is something.
On December 07 2020 06:11 TentativePanda wrote: Im pretty curious how Dark is gonna play. Havent watched his games recently but the results have been all over the place. I like when hes good
On December 07 2020 06:16 ilax30 wrote: Atleast its nice Korea always gets 3 games on west and just the 2 on central for the people that keep saying its unfair for Koreans. We keep talking about the timezones but if you start kinda early against a foreigner you play at a decent time and have the ping advantage which is something.
3 West, 2 Central is a decent compromise, since Western Europeans generally have slightly better ping to West than Koreans do to Central. Depends entirely on the player though. A bit rough for players further East like Skillous though if it's always going to be those servers.
On December 07 2020 06:29 Topin wrote: are libs superior to speed banshees in this position?
Im not sure if one is definitively better than the other. Banshees are better if you want to kill the SHs, and liberators are better if you want to lessen locust damage
On December 07 2020 06:29 Topin wrote: are libs superior to speed banshees in this position?
Dark has no anti-air other than biles (and vipers I guess) so banshees would be better imo. Nevermind the swarmhosts you can push all the ravagers away.
On December 07 2020 06:28 TentativePanda wrote: Ive said it before, but swarmhosts are really really bad units. Idc what twitch chat or casual viewers think
On December 07 2020 06:29 Topin wrote: are libs superior to speed banshees in this position?
Dark has no anti-air other than biles (and vipers I guess) so banshees would be better imo. Nevermind the swarmhosts you can push all the ravagers away.
On December 07 2020 06:28 TentativePanda wrote: Ive said it before, but swarmhosts are really really bad units. Idc what twitch chat or casual viewers think
On December 07 2020 06:52 irvnasty wrote: Not sure what Dark's aversion is to ling/bane comps. His roach plays would likely be stronger if they were less predictable.
For sure, lets be honest the whole reason roach ravager is strong against bio is because of the surprise and the first 1/1 timing attack. It just falls off so much after bio gets 2-2. Also knowing you are playing 2 games on West against a terran on quite a bit of ping.. I feel playing roach ravager is just making it much easier for uThermal to micro..
On December 07 2020 06:52 irvnasty wrote: Not sure what Dark's aversion is to ling/bane comps. His roach plays would likely be stronger if they were less predictable.
For sure, lets be honest the whole reason roach ravager is strong against bio is because of the surprise and the first 1/1 timing attack. It just falls off so much after bio gets 2-2. Also knowing you are playing 2 games on West against a terran on quite a bit of ping.. I feel playing roach ravager is just making it much easier for uThermal to micro..
I mean while Dark has always been kind of a roach boy, we know he can play ling bane styles maybe because of his wrist he sticks to the roaches even more currently?
On December 07 2020 06:16 ilax30 wrote: Atleast its nice Korea always gets 3 games on west and just the 2 on central for the people that keep saying its unfair for Koreans. We keep talking about the timezones but if you start kinda early against a foreigner you play at a decent time and have the ping advantage which is something.
the server distribution is pretty fair actually since central is absolutely brutal from Korea and some EU players are getting around 150-180 on west.
Uthermal really has been putting up results against top Koreans this year, should atleast hold on to his Kato play in position and hopefully qualify. Entertaining stuff
What i really like about Darks way of approaching the mu is that he goes for the production of terran instead of doing bad trades vs bases until the terran is out of money.
The Shopify stat screen is a neat graphic, but if I might offer a suggestion, it's good content for post-game analysis, but maybe less so for in-game, since it has so much info and covers most of the screen
On December 07 2020 07:35 Bagration wrote: The Shopify stat screen is a neat graphic, but if I might offer a suggestion, it's good content for post-game analysis, but maybe less so for in-game, since it has so much info and covers most of the screen
yah, it's trying to do too much when it should just be a version of the units lost tab that covers a single fight
On December 07 2020 07:35 Bagration wrote: The Shopify stat screen is a neat graphic, but if I might offer a suggestion, it's good content for post-game analysis, but maybe less so for in-game, since it has so much info and covers most of the screen
I thought the same thing. Very neat and informative, but it's definitely too big and contains too much information to take in during the game anyway. I'd love to see it brought up for post game commentary, and maybe they could create a reduced version of it to show in game.
Again a bit of a shame so many good players are just out after a single bo5. But thats life I guess, lower bracket from R1 would take another full weekend and time is money. gg's
On December 07 2020 08:35 ilax30 wrote: Again a bit of a shame so many good players are just out after a single bo5. But thats life I guess, lower bracket from R1 would take another full weekend and time is money. gg's
that's why this should have been a 24 man tournament like the last edition
the format was perfect, I don't understand the change at all.
On December 07 2020 08:40 Argonauta wrote: this foreigner favoritism in the brackets though
Which one? The matchups looked pretty bad for non koreans in the first place. Heromarine, Clem and uThermal(go figure) were the ones who were more likely to advance.
On December 07 2020 08:40 Argonauta wrote: this foreigner favoritism in the brackets though
Which one? The matchups looked pretty bad for non koreans in the first place. Heromarine, Clem and uThermal(go figure) where the ones who were more likely to advance.
Clem went to the next round despite lower map score
On December 07 2020 08:40 Argonauta wrote: this foreigner favoritism in the brackets though
Which one? The matchups looked pretty bad for non koreans in the first place. Heromarine, Clem and uThermal(go figure) where the ones who were more likely to advance.
The bracket graphic incorrectly showed Clem as having beaten ByuN.
ByuN beat Clem? Wtf? Did he manage to sleep and got up early to play, or he pulled an all-nighter and still won? If the 3 west, 2 central NA servers thing is true, it should be quite an advantage for KR players. Central is pretty bad for EU, so West I don’t even imagine. I think you barely play on it if you ladder on NA from EU since it tries to pair you to the best possible server, so at worst it’s central and at best east.
I am happy ByuN got through but disappointed Clem doesn’t even have a chance at lower bracket... tough draw, knew it would be heartbreaking either way. But I hoped for ByuN go get the best possible spot for Katowice so I’m glad of the result.
On December 07 2020 09:19 Poopi wrote: ByuN beat Clem? Wtf? Did he manage to sleep and got up early to play, or he pulled an all-nighter and still won? If the 3 west, 2 central NA servers thing is true, it should be quite an advantage for KR players. Central is pretty bad for EU, so West I don’t even imagine. I think you barely play on it if you ladder on NA from EU since it tries to pair you to the best possible server, so at worst it’s central and at best east.
I am happy ByuN got through but disappointed Clem doesn’t even have a chance at lower bracket... tough draw, knew it would be heartbreaking either way. But I hoped for ByuN go get the best possible spot for Katowice so I’m glad of the result.
ByuN went to bed earlier than usual and woke up in time for TSL, so he was well rested.
On December 07 2020 12:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: Wow. Foreigners really did hit rock bottom huh?
Hmm, kind of an odd take-away from the first weekend? Unless Rogue beating Harstem or Maru stomping Cham was unexpected somehow (and also Heromarine got past Armani). Dark and Cure were both favored pretty heavily, I'd say. Losing Clem in the first round sucks, but no shame in going out 2-3 to someone who 4-2'ed Maru a week ago.
On December 07 2020 12:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: Wow. Foreigners really did hit rock bottom huh?
Hmm, kind of an odd take-away from the first weekend? Unless Rogue beating Harstem or Maru stomping Cham was unexpected somehow (and also Heromarine got past Armani). Dark and Cure were both favored pretty heavily, I'd say. Losing Clem in the first round sucks, but no shame in going out 2-3 to someone who 4-2'ed Maru a week ago.
Wow ! Top 4 foreigner beat the worst korean. Nice excuses. Foreigners got smashed and looked absolutely hopeless. This is the definition of rock bottom.
On December 07 2020 12:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: Wow. Foreigners really did hit rock bottom huh?
Hmm, kind of an odd take-away from the first weekend? Unless Rogue beating Harstem or Maru stomping Cham was unexpected somehow (and also Heromarine got past Armani). Dark and Cure were both favored pretty heavily, I'd say. Losing Clem in the first round sucks, but no shame in going out 2-3 to someone who 4-2'ed Maru a week ago.
Wow ! Top 4 foreigner beat the worst korean. Nice excuses. Foreigners got smashed and looked absolutely hopeless. This is the definition of rock bottom.
No, it's not; first of all, the "worst korean" got to ro4 in Code S not much ago, he's not the weakest of the koreans who qualified for TSL and Heromarine is not a top 4 foreigner, he may be top 4 in EU.
Now, tell me which foreigner was favored in the matchups they had to play. MaxPax, Harstem, Cham and Skillous had no chance, their opponents were evidently much stronger; Lambo and uThermal had to fight an uphill battle while Clem-Byun was at best an even matchup considering that it was a TvT.
On December 07 2020 12:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: Wow. Foreigners really did hit rock bottom huh?
Hmm, kind of an odd take-away from the first weekend? Unless Rogue beating Harstem or Maru stomping Cham was unexpected somehow (and also Heromarine got past Armani). Dark and Cure were both favored pretty heavily, I'd say. Losing Clem in the first round sucks, but no shame in going out 2-3 to someone who 4-2'ed Maru a week ago.
Wow ! Top 4 foreigner beat the worst korean. Nice excuses. Foreigners got smashed and looked absolutely hopeless. This is the definition of rock bottom.
No, it's not; first of all, the "worst korean" got to ro4 in Code S not much ago, he's not the weakest of the koreans who qualified for TSL and Heromarine is not a top 4 foreigner, he may be top 4 in EU.
Now, tell me which foreigner was favored in the matchups they had to play. MaxPax, Harstem, Cham and Skillous had no chance, their opponents were evidently much stronger; Lambo and uThermal had to fight an uphill battle while Clem-Byun was at best an even matchup considering that it was a TvT.
Just more excuses and bending facts to suit your narrative. Armanis top 4 code S finish was a total fluke everyone knows that. He was the weakest korean in this tournament by far alongside Bunny. Top 3 foreigners are Serral, Reynor and Clem. And then you can basically coin toss between Heromarine, Showtime and maybe Time? So yeah, with the form of Neeb, Special, Scarlett and Astrea, Heromarine may very well be considered top 4 foreigner.
The rest is irrelevant, could not care less about the draws. All foreigners except 1 who drew the weakest opponent lost. Thats it, rock bottom, the same one koreans were supposedly at after 1 bad tournament
On December 07 2020 12:47 MarianoSC2 wrote: Wow. Foreigners really did hit rock bottom huh?
Hmm, kind of an odd take-away from the first weekend? Unless Rogue beating Harstem or Maru stomping Cham was unexpected somehow (and also Heromarine got past Armani). Dark and Cure were both favored pretty heavily, I'd say. Losing Clem in the first round sucks, but no shame in going out 2-3 to someone who 4-2'ed Maru a week ago.
Wow ! Top 4 foreigner beat the worst korean. Nice excuses. Foreigners got smashed and looked absolutely hopeless. This is the definition of rock bottom.
No, it's not; first of all, the "worst korean" got to ro4 in Code S not much ago, he's not the weakest of the koreans who qualified for TSL and Heromarine is not a top 4 foreigner, he may be top 4 in EU.
Now, tell me which foreigner was favored in the matchups they had to play. MaxPax, Harstem, Cham and Skillous had no chance, their opponents were evidently much stronger; Lambo and uThermal had to fight an uphill battle while Clem-Byun was at best an even matchup considering that it was a TvT.
Just more excuses and bending facts to suit your narrative. Armanis top 4 code S finish was a total fluke everyone knows that. He was the weakest korean in this tournament by far alongside Bunny. Top 3 foreigners are Serral, Reynor and Clem. And then you can basically coin toss between Heromarine, Showtime and maybe Time? So yeah, with the form of Neeb, Special, Scarlett and Astrea, Heromarine may very well be considered top 4 foreigner.
The rest is irrelevant, could not care less about the draws. All foreigners except 1 who drew the weakest opponent lost. Thats it, rock bottom, the same one koreans were supposedly at after 1 bad tournament
Ah, it's bad guy Mariano again! Can't say I missed this version.
The "rock bottom" argument for koreans was brought up by one of your comrades, trying to subvert it against foreigners would make little sense even if there were the premises to discuss such an issue; however, there isn't any. If you don't care about the draws you are just stating you don't want to discuss, you just want to yell how weak the foreigners are without taking a minute to analyze the facts.
Let's take Aligulac into consideration(yes, it's not perfect for cross region comparisons but it's much better when you have to compare players from the same region even if weekly cups are probably too relevant for the rankings; also, it agrees with you since Heromarine is #4 non korean) and look at the pairings: we have #1 KR vs #25 NK, #2 KR vs #20 NK, #3 KR vs #15 NK, #5 KR vs #3NK, #6 KR vs #12 NK, #8 KR vs #8 NK, #11 KR vs #10 NK, #17 KR vs #4NK. You have four matches evidently in favor of the koreans, one which favours non koreans(guess who won those?) and three kind of even(spoiler: they were); I assure you we would have seen different results if Serral had to play Bomber and Reynor had to face Zoun, not to mention koreans are generally better pound per pound(for example Cure who's #11 in Korea sits at 2787 mmr while Lambo, #10 among non koreans, only has 2623 mmr and would be #17 in South Korea).
I agree that you could have expected at least one more non korean advancing but to call these results "rock bottom" is totally out of place; I also agree that Armani's ro4 is most likely a fluke and that he is the weakest korean who was paired with a foreigner but he's not the weakest who has qualified for TSL, that's Bunny without any doubt if we take a look at their recent form/accomplishments.
EPT
Team Liquid / RotterdaM (for Lambo vs Cure only) | 
TakeTV | 
OGaming SC2 | 
Crank TV
RotterdaM (Kevin van der Kooi)
Wardi (Jonathon Ward)
Cure vs 
gz to the winner.
