EPTGreatest Map of All Time Tournament - Page 4
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/rGGJ5cM.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/7SfLmb6.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/i2Tbkj5.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/n9FKZ14.png) ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/AWCTpvQ.png) Group 13: Poll: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? Echo (26) Expedition Lost (10) Ruins of Endion (2) Interloper (2) Lerilak Crest (1) Slag Pits (1) 42 total votes Your vote: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? (Vote): Ruins of Endion Group 14: Poll: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? Overgrowth (36) Automaton (8) Crossfire (2) Desert Oasis (2) Honorgrounds (2) Atlas (1) 51 total votes Your vote: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? (Vote): Overgrowth Group 15: Poll: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? Daybreak (36) Cactus Valley (12) Alterzim Stronghold (4) Nerazim Crypt (1) DMZ (0) Star Station (0) 53 total votes Your vote: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? (Vote): DMZ Group 16: Poll: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? King Sejong Station (37) Submarine LE (4) Delta Quadrant (1) Terminus (1) Icarus (1) Central Protocol (0) 44 total votes Your vote: Which of these maps do you consider to be the best? (Vote): Delta Quadrant | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
 Ruins of EndionLerilak CrestExpedition LostSlag PitsInterloperEchoGroup 14: OvergrowthCrossfireAutomatonAtlasDesert OasisHonorgroundsGroup 15: DMZStar StationAlterzim StrongholdDaybreakNerazim CryptCactus ValleyGroup 16: Delta QuadrantTerminusKing Sejong StationCentral ProtocolIcarusSubmarine | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1940 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
Group 13 : I really hesitated a long time between Echo and Expedition Lost. In the end I voted for Expedition Lost because it had more memorable features. Echo was definitely a fine map though. Groups 14, 15, 16 : zero hesitation here, some of the best maps of all time in those groups. Overgrowth, Daybreak and KSS by quite a margin (they even got relatively weak groups, no other map in those groups really stands out imo, maybe Cactus Valley). [and huge thanks for the liquipedia links !] | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
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Azzur
Australia6267 Posts
G14: Overgrowth easily, although I had nostalgic memories of Desert Oasis and Crossfire G15: Daybreak easily, I consider Daybreak a strong contender for the title - as the first map that really defined SC2 maps, and most other maps are based on its concepts G16: King Sejong Station easily as well. Also thanks for the Liquipedia links! | ||
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RPR_Tempest
Australia7799 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Ruins of Endion was the successor to Ulrena. There were some fun games revolving around pushes from the gold, the top of the map was never used similarly to Ulrena and it was somewhere between a mediocre to average map. Lerilak Crest was a poor map from LotV beta. That natural gave Protoss players headaches. Expedition Lost was a trendsetter with its back door to the main and quite a few significant games were played on it including the very controversial game that resulted in MarineKing being accused of matchfixing. The gameplay of the back door wasn't always particularly fun. Slag Pits was another awful Blizzard map that ignored that Protosses kinda needed to forge FE. Interloper was a bit of a puzzling map. Zergs thought all the Line of Sight blockers made spreading creep very frustrating , a lot of the chokes could quite heavily be abused and its match-ups weren't particularly balanced, but also ran counter to the prevailing balance of the other maps in the pool. Echo was a good map in HotS, and also well liked when it was brought back for LotV. In particular there were many good ZvZs on Echo in a time where ZvZ was really coming into its own and evolving past being all about roach ravagers headbutting into each other. One thing that is interesting is that balance on Echo was very different in HotS and LotV. TvZ on Echo had been quite balanced in HotS but was very terran favoured in LotV (60% terran wins, 65% if you throw out games by weaker players), but the community didn't seem to notice, and moreover didn't care since the games were exciting. Blizzard's balance team often says that it's not just the balance that matters, but also the perception of balance and this certainly was the case for Echo. I'll go with Echo over Expedition Lost for this group. Group 14: No map has had more pro games played on it then Overgrowth. No map is more textbook and yet it has character--the extremely powerful watchtowers, the natural gas that can get hit from the third, the gold base. Sure, games on it in LotV were rather average, but it was made in a different era and it very much defined and shined in that era. And it has influenced map design ever since. People often say that pros would be happy with seven copies of the same map in the pool. That map is Overgrowth. Crossfire is one of those converted Blizzard maps that were somewhat common in the early days of SCII. As a result it has these very strong high ground with obnoxious chokes that mean armies get slaughtered by tanks. Automaton's a modern map which was pretty average. Backmining the gold was cool. Spawns made a big difference since you could jump in to snipe stim. Not particularly balanced, but it was ok. Atlas was quite a nice map even though it wasn't played much. Why GSL brought it back for a season in LotV is a mystery. Desert Oasis was one of the bizarre (from our modern outlook) WoL beta maps. Honorgrounds was a strange 4p map It was quite imbalanced. ByuN went 9-0 on it by always 3-rax reapering and then going for marine/reaper pushes while dropping the extremely vulnerable in main nat. I'm voting for Overgrowth obviously. Group 15: Can't remember anything about DMZ. The BW DMZ is way cooler. Star Station was a very bad Blizzard map that got remade to merely be bad. The fact that a community remade version ended up on ladder(https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/1l21ep/i_remade_star_station_as_a_2_player_map_and/) is one of the stranger ways maps have ended up on ladder. Alterzim Stronghold is the biggest sc2 map. There were some fun games on it (like when Has tried to cannon rush three bases), but it was just too big. Daybreak is the second most played map. It was on ladder for ages, was brought back even in LotV, and had many of the most iconic games of WoL on it (unfortunately those often involve BL/infestor). It is an early pioneer of reasonable map design, with a wallable natural and holdable third base and was hugely influencial. It also did split map quite heavily with play sometimes revolving around knocking out the sixth base. If Overgrowth stands for HotS, Daybreak stands for WoL. Nerazim Crypt is another terrible unplayed Blizzard ladder map. Cactus Valley is in many ways a variant on Whirlwind's ideas (though tbh there aren't that many ways you can place bases on a rotational 4p map). It was very balanced in HotS, very balanced in LotV (after some mistakes around mineral lines and liberators were fixed), and all around a solid map despite tank positions sometimes being tough to dislodge. I have a personal dislike for Daybreak, but it's still the obvious choice. Group 16: Delta Quadrant was an eminently reasonable Blizzard sc2 map that came in early WoL. Honestly hats off to those that made it. When you compare it to say Jungle Basin it's night and day. Terminus was a pretty cool map back in the day. It doesn't hold up at all from a modern standpoint, but there were some very nice games on it, including that minigun donut forcefield gif :https://i.imgur.com/AfBr9.mp4 King Sejong Station is another very prominent Starcraft map. Like many maps that did stints in several versions of the game it was so and so in LotV with siege tank attacks from across the rocks being quite annoying, but games on it in HotS were great. Its layout was quite non-standard for the day with the reverse natural and the fortress base on the center highground around which many a lategame revolved. Due to its non-standardness it was less influencial than Daybreak or Overgrowth, but personally I thought the games on it were better. Incidentally this is one aspect I disagree upon with this otherwise quite instructive article on maps: https://tl.net/forum/starcraft-2/507093-an-examination-of-the-history-of-the-map-pool Back in early LotV, the KD8 grenades of the reaper had half the cooldown and dealt twice the damage. This is one of many things that made Central Protocol a terrible map. Icarus was a relatively early experiment in playing with resources. Third and fourths could be awkward but it was an interesting map. Submarine's one of the current maps, but so far I feel like its had the bad luck of coming in at a time terran is strong. If a rushy map like it (or Kairos) comes in at a time where terran is weaker, well it's helping balance. If terran is strong it's quite the opposite. KSS is another obvious vote. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
Echo was a fucking abomination | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On June 29 2020 14:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Delta Quadrant was an eminently reasonable Blizzard sc2 map that came in early WoL. Honestly hats off to those that made it. When you compare it to say Jungle Basin it's night and day. that's funny, i remember players absolutely HATING it, mostly because of the rocks on the backdoor nat forcing you to take the forward base first - which for close spawns was like 5 seconds away from your opponent's forward base. | ||
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JTCC
Netherlands21 Posts
On June 29 2020 16:40 -NegativeZero- wrote: that's funny, i remember players absolutely HATING it, mostly because of the rocks on the backdoor nat forcing you to take the forward base first - which for close spawns was like 5 seconds away from your opponent's forward base. This agrees with my memory of the map. Community response was negative towards it and this is likely why it was only in the map pool for two seasons. Of the early maps that were in the original release map pool only Metalopolis and Xel Naga Caverns were met with positive responses. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
Also TL.net: Daybreak obvious choice | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On June 30 2020 02:29 Cricketer12 wrote: TL.net: BL/Infestor is annoying Also TL.net: Daybreak obvious choice nah I'm pretty sure Whirlwind, KSS or Overgrowth will rank higher than Daybreak. But the horrible balance of the BL/infestor days shouldn't be blamed on Daybreak which was definitely seminal and incredibly influential in mapmaking. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 30 2020 05:36 [PkF] Wire wrote: nah I'm pretty sure Whirlwind, KSS or Overgrowth will rank higher than Daybreak. But the horrible balance of the BL/infestor days shouldn't be blamed on Daybreak which was definitely seminal and incredibly influential in mapmaking. I don't think Daybreak is blameless even if game balance itself has to bear the brunt of the blame for BL/infestor. Its layout does splitmap quite heavily which is quite conducive to BL/infestor. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On June 30 2020 06:19 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I don't think Daybreak is blameless even if game balance itself has to bear the brunt of the blame for BL/infestor. Its layout does splitmap quite heavily which is quite conducive to BL/infestor. oh, I definitely agree Daybreak was by no means a perfect map. But it's hard not to acknowledge how influential it was and how it embodied SC2 for such a long spawn, that's the reason why I think it'll rank very high, and probably higher than a lot of objectively more solid maps. I noticed I forgot Cloud Kingdom in the list of maps that will probably beat Daybreak imo. But that's just my guess, let the votes speak ! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 30 2020 06:26 [PkF] Wire wrote: oh, I definitely agree Daybreak was by no means a perfect map. But it's hard not to acknowledge how influential it was and how it embodied SC2 for such a long spawn, that's the reason why I think it'll rank very high, and probably higher than a lot of objectively more solid maps. I noticed I forgot Cloud Kingdom in the list of maps that will probably beat Daybreak imo. But that's just my guess, let the votes speak ! Which is to say: "Sorry Cactus Valley. You're not in the same weight class." | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
On June 30 2020 06:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Which is to say: "Sorry Cactus Valley. You're not in the same weight class." as far as I'm concerned, no. But I admit I'm quite biased against 4p maps. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States14000 Posts
On June 30 2020 06:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Which is to say: "Sorry Cactus Valley. You're not in the same weight class." Blasphemy. Heresy. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24239 Posts
I'm actually surprised to see how much love Cactus Valley gets ! Honestly I don't mind it, though I don't personally have any fondness for the map. But now I'm actually curious to see if Daybreak will prevail in this group ; I thought it was obvious, after all perhaps it's not, especially since the group is rather weak except those two maps. | ||
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