Genuinely hyped, but I have no idea at which hour I should wake up. If there is still 50mn downtime, 1 hour for the Maru 3-0 / 3-1 TIME with filler, 1h or 1h30 for Stats, I can wake up normally. But I would hate waking up in the middle of Maru - Serral ;_;
On October 25 2019 02:47 Poopi wrote: Genuinely hyped, but I have no idea at which hour I should wake up. If there is still 50mn downtime, 1 hour for the Maru 3-0 / 3-1 TIME with filler, 1h or 1h30 for Stats, I can wake up normally. But I would hate waking up in the middle of Maru - Serral ;_;
On October 25 2019 02:47 Poopi wrote: Genuinely hyped, but I have no idea at which hour I should wake up. If there is still 50mn downtime, 1 hour for the Maru 3-0 / 3-1 TIME with filler, 1h or 1h30 for Stats, I can wake up normally. But I would hate waking up in the middle of Maru - Serral ;_;
I am actually asking myself the same.
Same problem here. This terrible times for EU will hurt the viewership a lot this year. I don't have data to back it up but I had the feeling that EU is the place with the most SC2 fans these days. Back in the MLG days the ratio was different but nowadays it's mostly Europeans I think.
Really unfortunate scheduling on Blizz/GSL's side.
The WCS twitch channel hides the option to watch the stream on delay (you know the one with the mario looking question mark block). So if you wake up a couple hours late you risk seeing results because they also separate each series into a different vod.
Out of the 13 games they've played against each other, they've opened with 2-rax reaper an astonishing 10 times with the following breakdown:
6 games did not involve 2-rax reaper 3 games involved Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME doing other stuff 1 game involved TIME opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and Maru doing other stuff 1 game involved both Maru and TIME doing proxy 2-rax reaper 2 games involve Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME going for the blind-counter defensive 2-rax reaper.
Can't wait for this one. Honestly Serral is up against the best TvZ player of all time here, a player who he is dead even with and a guy who almost swept him at Asus Rog. Yes current balance is what it is but I would still say that Maru, Stats and Serral are at least evenly matched. The state of the game is actually a bit of a shame because this could have been the moment when even the biggest doubters would have to admit that Serral is simply the best of em all.
Hope we get some good games and hope Maru does not completely bomb out and doesn't even meet Serral (which is also a possibility) So many options wow, I am super hyped. Anyway going with Maru and Stats here but its just a blind shot
The WCS twitch channel hides the option to watch the stream on delay (you know the one with the mario looking question mark block). So if you wake up a couple hours late you risk seeing results because they also separate each series into a different vod.
There you only click the latest video which will be the ongoing broadcast. Whenever the video finishes, you can just refresh and it will add the remaining video.
The WCS twitch channel hides the option to watch the stream on delay (you know the one with the mario looking question mark block). So if you wake up a couple hours late you risk seeing results because they also separate each series into a different vod.
There you only click the latest video which will be the ongoing broadcast. Whenever the video finishes, you can just refresh and it will add the remaining video.
I will give it a shot. It wasn't there this morning and I use that method 100% of the time for GSL on the app since I am always an hour late. Maybe having that link will make it work. Well, for those who have issue like me then at least there is an alternative. Thanks for the advise, cheers!
On October 25 2019 08:59 noego wrote: Lol Maru & Stats over Serral? Some people are really slow learners huh?
They would both be favorites over Serral if it wasn't for the current state of the game. With the state of the game right now I'll admit I'm surprised by the poll results but I guess people are just hoping. Zergs also seem kind of dumb right now though because there was basically no passive BL/Infestor play last night when it seems literally unbeatable for P/T. They still advanced but it felt like it could have been much less close.
Out of the 13 games they've played against each other, they've opened with 2-rax reaper an astonishing 10 times with the following breakdown:
6 games did not involve 2-rax reaper 3 games involved Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME doing other stuff 1 game involved TIME opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and Maru doing other stuff 1 game involved both Maru and TIME doing proxy 2-rax reaper 2 games involve Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME going for the blind-counter defensive 2-rax reaper.
I bet 0, last time maru use 2-rax reaper in WESG Asia qualifier against TIME and then lost(2-3), I don't think he will do it again
On October 25 2019 06:34 MarianoSC2 wrote: Can't wait for this one. Honestly Serral is up against the best TvZ player of all time here, a player who he is dead even with and a guy who almost swept him at Asus Rog. Yes current balance is what it is but I would still say that Maru, Stats and Serral are at least evenly matched. The state of the game is actually a bit of a shame because this could have been the moment when even the biggest doubters would have to admit that Serral is simply the best of em all.
Hope we get some good games and hope Maru does not completely bomb out and doesn't even meet Serral (which is also a possibility) So many options wow, I am super hyped. Anyway going with Maru and Stats here but its just a blind shot
I hope he loses against TIME and then beats Stats and TIME to avoid Serral in the group. Then meet him again in the finals. Or Serral loses and Maru wins. Doesn't matter what happens as long as they don't face each other now and in the finals so that the hype can build up.
Out of the 13 games they've played against each other, they've opened with 2-rax reaper an astonishing 10 times with the following breakdown:
6 games did not involve 2-rax reaper 3 games involved Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME doing other stuff 1 game involved TIME opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and Maru doing other stuff 1 game involved both Maru and TIME doing proxy 2-rax reaper 2 games involve Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME going for the blind-counter defensive 2-rax reaper.
I bet 0, last time maru use 2-rax reaper in WESG Asia qualifier against TIME and then lost(2-3), I don't think he will do it again
He was on a fever during that match and didn't even remotely try to play seriously.
Out of the 13 games they've played against each other, they've opened with 2-rax reaper an astonishing 10 times with the following breakdown:
6 games did not involve 2-rax reaper 3 games involved Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME doing other stuff 1 game involved TIME opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and Maru doing other stuff 1 game involved both Maru and TIME doing proxy 2-rax reaper 2 games involve Maru opening with proxy 2-rax reaper, and TIME going for the blind-counter defensive 2-rax reaper.
I bet 0, last time maru use 2-rax reaper in WESG Asia qualifier against TIME and then lost(2-3), I don't think he will do it again
He proxy-reapered TIME the last two times they played though (which is much after the WESG Asia qualifiers).
Looks like TIME hasn't gotten discouraged about the defensive 2-rax reaper after previously losing two games off that build order win. He did misread Maru though which is worrisome in of itself.
Kinda surprised by how well TIME transitions out of that opening. It feels like he should be at a disadvantage, but it really isn't the case. I guess Maru needs to make something happen with his faster starport to keep his opening edge.
Maru doesn't look great in TvT, makes sense given he only needed to beat Time to realistically never play against another Terran all tournament long, lol
On October 25 2019 13:11 Monochromatic wrote: Jesus Maru really messed up with that defense. A single tank defending his natural and he'd have 1-1 right now.
On October 25 2019 13:11 Zambrah wrote: Maru doesn't look great in TvT, makes sense given he only needed to beat Time to realistically never play against another Terran all tournament long, lol
He doesn't look terribly on point tactically though, and that's not a one match-up thing.
TIME winning two games because he just decisively charged into a position that Maru assumed no one would try to force their way through. I figure Maru will adapt, if that kind of situation arises again anyway.
I don't think this would be one of the biggest upsets in the WCS history, but I don't exactly have a list of what happened so far in my mind. Maru losing at Blizzcon games is a pretty common result, although he of course is the favourite here.
On October 25 2019 13:37 fgonzo wrote: Holy fuck. What can't Maru do against Terran. Won a game with quick, decisive strategy, won a long, drawn out macro game. Best TvT'er in forever.
Honestly didn't expect Time to win that, but I"m pleasantly surprise. A chinese player at blizzcon would be great for viewer numbers, so it would be cool if Serral and Time advanced.
Just you wait, Serral gonna win this, Time gonna 3-0 him, then Stats is gonna edge out Maru in an epic series, but lose yet again to Serral who's gonna win Blizzcon playing only zvz.
On October 25 2019 13:53 romson87 wrote: In the ultimate plot twist we're gonna get the elusive Serral vs Maru in loosers match
forget it, Maru v Serral is not happening, ever
I was only really wanting it to happen after Maru won all the GSL last year and Serral was on fire as well and everyone claimed Maru to be #1. Now Dark is ahead of Maru.
On October 25 2019 13:53 romson87 wrote: In the ultimate plot twist we're gonna get the elusive Serral vs Maru in loosers match
forget it, Maru v Serral is not happening, ever
Plot twist: because BOTH are actually the same AI. They can't face each other.
I wonder if that's ever happened to AlphaStar. Having to face itself on ladder due to matchmaking. One would hope that Deepmind would have avoided that, but who knows.
On October 25 2019 13:58 AlexZhang1012 wrote: Stats plz let us see Serral play agianst Maru... in the loser's match.
it s either Maru vs Serral or Stats vs Maru in the losers match. What a time to be alive. And since we know Serral would do anything to dodge Maru, he's gonna have to win this next series.
On October 25 2019 13:58 Nakajin wrote: Just you wait, Serral gonna win this, Time gonna 3-0 him, then Stats is gonna edge out Maru in an epic series, but lose yet again to Serral who's gonna win Blizzcon playing only zvz.
And we'll get the Maru-Serral argument FOREVER
If Time 3-0s Serral is there really an argument that Maru wouldn't beat him? Time clearly prepped hard for Maru and it paid off but his TvZ can't be anywhere near Maru's level.
On October 25 2019 13:58 Nakajin wrote: Just you wait, Serral gonna win this, Time gonna 3-0 him, then Stats is gonna edge out Maru in an epic series, but lose yet again to Serral who's gonna win Blizzcon playing only zvz.
And we'll get the Maru-Serral argument FOREVER
If Time 3-0s Serral is there really an argument that Maru wouldn't beat him? Time clearly prepped hard for Maru and it paid off but his TvZ can't be anywhere near Maru's level.
Hahahaha. Well now to hope Stats beats Serral so we get that TvZ we all want. And if that happens, Serral will probably go out last place now that would be something
I wish they'd give us a time estimate for the next game actually starting. If we're looking at 30+ minutes of this and interviews I probably just want to go to sleep and watch the vods
On October 25 2019 14:16 Argonauta wrote: Oh no... why they hire tasteless? He doesnt follow ghe game and now even releats jokes and mannerisms non stop. Rotti have to do heavy lifting here
Uh dunno people disliked Tasteless out there, we all have our favorite I guess. I would have loved ZG in place of Pig personally, but hey you can't make everyone happy
On October 25 2019 14:16 Argonauta wrote: Oh no... why they hire tasteless? He doesnt follow ghe game and now even releats jokes and mannerisms non stop. Rotti have to do heavy lifting here
riding on Artosis' coattails for years has its benefits
Is this going to be a repeat of the last game Stats and Serral played on Acropolis. Certainly looks that way. Admittedly Serral only has five bases, so it's not 100% lights out yet.
I love Serral, but the balance in late game PvZ is pretty screwed up right now. Considering he could go head to head against Stats is a balanced meta, this is pretty sad to watch in an imbalanced meta.
On October 25 2019 14:32 Sabu113 wrote: "Great neural parasites"
SC2 has gone full cycle. Infestor BL back to Infestor BL.
Hope Game 2 has some cheddar.
Imagine being so salty and biased, that in the middle of a game like this you wish for some quick cheese games
imagine cheering for one player and hoping he pulls out a higher win% strat
yeah, never understood that in any sports. Some people would rather see an uneventful, boring 0-0 if the outcome favors their team's overall chances, then seeing a showy 3-4 score after a hard fought game.
That s the equivalent of people looking at this game with 15 different unit-types and saying, man i just want to see some canon rushes.
And btw Stats has about 50-50% with lategame PvZ vs Serral.
I like protoss, but in this zerg era I actually end up going for terrans just to try and save the tournament from (even) more unbelievably shit-to-watch pvz
On October 25 2019 14:32 Sabu113 wrote: "Great neural parasites"
SC2 has gone full cycle. Infestor BL back to Infestor BL.
Hope Game 2 has some cheddar.
Imagine being so salty and biased, that in the middle of a game like this you wish for some quick cheese games
Just trying to see what I saw in this game at one point. It's like watching drunks box. It's just slow. It's not even a really impressive choke out. That zerg army is just so much more robust and the toss army is just too slow to punish any bad positioning. Normally the slow army has a strong punch. It doesn't with how this game is designed. The micro also underwhelms because its all spell casting.
But yeah my sample is pretty small these days. I'll give it another try at Blizzcon. I'll admit my favorite player in SC2 is that cheddarlord Taiwanese toss.
edit: This is not nearly as interesting as a good 0-0 football match. This is like watching Manchester United play right now.
Can't really say Stats played poorly or worse there. BL/Infestor is just too damn good. Not saying he didnt make mistakes that kinda snowballed like losing 9 probes + leaving nydus, but you can clearly say he did everything in a progamers way and still had nearly no cahnce in the real army fights :X
Chinese commentator A: Stats can keep himself alive if he do not have the engagement with Zerg main force. commentator B: So how could he win if he do not engage with Zerg A: well.....let's see
On October 25 2019 14:43 emperorofwild wrote: Chinese commentator A: Stats can keep himself alive if he do not have the engagement with Zerg main force. commentator B: So how could he win if he do not engage with Zerg A: well.....let's see
Serral is mad good and I want his achievements to not have the disclaimer that balance was bad when he won his second world championship in a row . Sadly that's how it might be right now.
On October 25 2019 14:43 emperorofwild wrote: Chinese commentator A: Stats can keep himself alive if he do not have the engagement with Zerg main force. commentator B: So how could he win if he do not engage with Zerg A: well.....let's see
Watching the commentators dance around "Zerg OP" is more fun than watching PvZ.
On October 25 2019 14:43 emperorofwild wrote: Chinese commentator A: Stats can keep himself alive if he do not have the engagement with Zerg main force. commentator B: So how could he win if he do not engage with Zerg A: well.....let's see
Watching the commentators dance around "Zerg OP" is more fun than watching PvZ.
I know it tends to boost the toxicity of the community but I like when casters are brutally honest about this kind of stuff instead of dancing around it.
On October 25 2019 14:43 emperorofwild wrote: Chinese commentator A: Stats can keep himself alive if he do not have the engagement with Zerg main force. commentator B: So how could he win if he do not engage with Zerg A: well.....let's see
Watching the commentators dance around "Zerg OP" is more fun than watching PvZ.
Stats is getting trashed here... Poor scouting from him. And poor strategy choice in the first game, trying to play an unwinnable game. PvZ is really in shambles right now
This 5 gate adept build is actually quite fun. Harstem made a nice tutorial about it last month. Of course Serral has played against it many times, and knows the perfect responses.
On October 25 2019 14:56 Noocta wrote: Hey look, it's the Air attack range buff Queen never needed.
Better buff queens some more, that one queen was really struggling killing that pesky and clearly overpowered warp prism.
"Zerg vs Zerg has become quite stale in part due to the many scouting options zerg posses, especially due to the overlord speed upgrade, as such we are testing an upgrade to queen anti-air to make sure sending a speed overlord into a base is a real commitment"
Stats is forced into these situations because there is no chance he wins later on anyway. And then all Serral has to do is to defend and be ahead by doing essentially nothing.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Gotta say, I'm really impressed to finally see a Zerg do the proper Broodlord micro. Not sure why it took so long for someone to understand you can do that with them.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
I mean sure, but if he sees the nydus, he simply wins the game on being ahead. So while its forgiving in a sense that you can kinda spam to try and put the nydus in place, it certainly is very commited though
On October 25 2019 15:05 Noocta wrote: Gotta say, I'm really impressed to finally see a Zerg do the proper Broodlord micro. Not sure why it took so long for someone to understand you can do that with them.
Soon they will learn there's a 100-100 upgrade on a idle building that make your infestor invisible
On October 25 2019 15:05 dysenterymd wrote: I think Maru beats Stats and then eliminates Time in the rematch
I wouldn't bet on it, while it appears Maru doing his GSL RO16 shenanigans with avoiding the winner match by losing first series, Stats v Maru BO5 is tricky as shit. It's one ofthose times of Maru outside GSL and MAru in the group stages.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Game 3 was not perfect balance wise.
Stats feels compelled to do adept timing, which is garbage with the new OL speed buff.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
I mean sure, but if he sees the nydus, he simply wins the game on being ahead. So while its forgiving in a sense that you can kinda spam to try and put the nydus in place, it certainly is very commited though
The issue with Nydus is that if Protoss makes one mistake they're dead, whereas zerg gets a number of second chances for the low low price of 50/50.
Serral didn't really even make a big attack that game. Some counter attacks, Muta damage, and then just let Stats walk in and hang himself by walking into the Brood Lords.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
I mean sure, but if he sees the nydus, he simply wins the game on being ahead. So while its forgiving in a sense that you can kinda spam to try and put the nydus in place, it certainly is very commited though
The issue with Nydus is that if Protoss makes one mistake they're dead, whereas zerg gets a number of second chances for the low low price of 50/50.
In that game Serral would have been dead without the Nydus working since he got his drones obliterated. In general though you are right it's too crazy.
When people say Stats lost because he made large mistakes, its the same deal when talking about when terrans "mismanage" their timing attacks against Protosses earlier this year.
When all the pressure is on one side to attack, because they inevitably lose in the late game because of game design, of course they are going to make more "mistakes" when attacking due to the defender's advantage.
On October 25 2019 15:05 dysenterymd wrote: I think Maru beats Stats and then eliminates Time in the rematch
I wouldn't bet on it, while it appears Maru doing his GSL RO16 shenanigans with avoiding the winner match by losing first series, Stats v Maru BO5 is tricky as shit. It's one ofthose times of Maru outside GSL and MAru in the group stages.
True, at the same time I feel Maru had enough time to prepare to at least advance in second . I want one of the two Terran to advance from this group, it's bad for the game if there's zero terran representation in the ro8
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
I mean sure, but if he sees the nydus, he simply wins the game on being ahead. So while its forgiving in a sense that you can kinda spam to try and put the nydus in place, it certainly is very commited though
The issue with Nydus is that if Protoss makes one mistake they're dead, whereas zerg gets a number of second chances for the low low price of 50/50.
In that game Serral would have been dead without the Nydus working since he got his drones obliterated.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Game 3 was not perfect balance wise.
Stats feels compelled to do adept timing, which is garbage with the new OL speed buff.
All Zerg has to do is survive to lategame.
Eh I don't agree. That build obviously gambles quite a bit on whether the zerg opens with overlord speed, but it's not an insta-loss if scouted either. Serral just reacted well and defended well enough.
Stats and Maru outclassed each other so hard the last 2 times they met I have no idea what to expect. Honestly more nervous for Maru right now, seems like he's in choke mode
Gotta love people saying ''This game was fine balance wise''. If a race is imbalanced its imbalanced as a whole, it can't be balanced in one game and imbalanced in another.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
I mean sure, but if he sees the nydus, he simply wins the game on being ahead. So while its forgiving in a sense that you can kinda spam to try and put the nydus in place, it certainly is very commited though
The issue with Nydus is that if Protoss makes one mistake they're dead, whereas zerg gets a number of second chances for the low low price of 50/50.
That's true for macro nydus, but these nydus allins aren't forgiving at all and it's very hard to win if your first nydus doesn't get up. While I think these allins are pretty stupid, you won't find many players who think they are imbalanced, especially after the armor nerf
The year is 2041. Starcraft 3 has languished in obscurity for years after its expansion was cancelled and the development team was shifted to work on Call of Duty Mobile and the Diablo esports project. Few tournaments remain, even fewer LANs. The legends of this long-forgotten thing called the GSL persist, though VODs have long since been lost. Elder legends from days gone by are the few remaining who attempt to compete on a regular basis.
The Kings of old are brought out in recognition for the largest RTS event in a decade: Cheeseadelphia 100. Kevin van der Kool is coaxed out of his position in the front office at Feynoord to give it one more ride, for old times' sake. And good thing, too, as magic happens. While so many legends have faded, their muscles succumbing to the natural progression of age, it's like these two haven't missed a beat. Neeb watches on in amazement as his daughter is out-microed time and again. Round after round, it seems impossible, but it's happening. The bracket doesn't lie: The Grand Finals will be the match decades in the making.
As the map vetoes conclude, Maru and Serral shake hands, and take their stations. They join the lobby, the admin signals to start...and nothing happens. The screen goes black. Frenzied calls are made to Activision HQ. Minutes turn to hours attempting to determine what has occurred. Finally, an old man steps onto the stage to announce that the final remaining operational Starcraft server has, like so much else, succumbed to the ravages of climate change. The tournament is over. RTS is officially dead.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
I mean sure, but if he sees the nydus, he simply wins the game on being ahead. So while its forgiving in a sense that you can kinda spam to try and put the nydus in place, it certainly is very commited though
The issue with Nydus is that if Protoss makes one mistake they're dead, whereas zerg gets a number of second chances for the low low price of 50/50.
In that game Serral would have been dead without the Nydus working since he got his drones obliterated.
let me tell you a secret
nydus eventually works vs protoss
it only works if you play against players 2 tiers below you
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Game 3 was not perfect balance wise.
Stats feels compelled to do adept timing, which is garbage with the new OL speed buff.
All Zerg has to do is survive to lategame.
Game 3 was not a balance issue. He decides to do a build which wasn't a real allin but rather a smaller commitment. If he kills 11 workers without actually losing 11 himself, that is alright. You could clearly tell that Protoss timing was still hard hitting and he was insanely far behind. In every match, you can pinpoint errors. I think nydus/swarmhost and bl/infestors are really an issue even if the Protoss is a) better and b) playing near perfect. Not saying Serral is worse per se, but I don't think Stats could have taken the main fights on acropolis a lot better and it wasnt close. Smaller stuff he can fix is not leaving nydus, not losing so many probes to harassment etc.
On October 25 2019 15:05 dysenterymd wrote: I think Maru beats Stats and then eliminates Time in the rematch
I wouldn't bet on it, while it appears Maru doing his GSL RO16 shenanigans with avoiding the winner match by losing first series, Stats v Maru BO5 is tricky as shit. It's one ofthose times of Maru outside GSL and MAru in the group stages.
True, at the same time I feel Maru had enough time to prepare to at least advance in second . I want one of the two Terran to advance from this group, it's bad for the game if there's zero terran representation in the ro8
... Dear god just looked at the brackets. Mostly Protoss and Zergs. That'll be miserable.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Game 3 was not perfect balance wise.
Stats feels compelled to do adept timing, which is garbage with the new OL speed buff.
All Zerg has to do is survive to lategame.
Game 3 was not a balance issue. He decides to do a build which wasn't a real allin but rather a smaller commitment. If he kills 11 workers without actually losing 11 himself, that is alright. You could clearly tell that Protoss timing was still hard hitting and he was insanely far behind. In every match, you can pinpoint errors. I think nydus/swarmhost and bl/infestors are really an issue even if the Protoss is a) better and b) playing near perfect. Not saying Serral is worse per se, but I don't think Stats could have taken the main fights on acropolis a lot better and it wasnt close. Smaller stuff he can fix is not leaving nydus, not losing so many probes to harassment etc.
G3 was him not walling.
At the same time we can ask if Stast would have goner for such build with a better balance situation, which is one of the things people here are saying. While it is not a blance issue game, it still is
On October 25 2019 15:11 Morbidius wrote: Gotta love people saying ''This game was fine balance wise''. If a race is imbalanced its imbalanced as a whole, it can't be balanced in one game and imbalanced in another.
Phrase it however you want. Maybe you prefer: "this game did not reflect any particular imbalances in the game".
On October 25 2019 15:05 dysenterymd wrote: I think Maru beats Stats and then eliminates Time in the rematch
I wouldn't bet on it, while it appears Maru doing his GSL RO16 shenanigans with avoiding the winner match by losing first series, Stats v Maru BO5 is tricky as shit. It's one ofthose times of Maru outside GSL and MAru in the group stages.
True, at the same time I feel Maru had enough time to prepare to at least advance in second . I want one of the two Terran to advance from this group, it's bad for the game if there's zero terran representation in the ro8
... Dear god just looked at the brackets. Mostly Protoss and Zergs. That'll be miserable.
Maru hwaiting.
There's a reason why the current meme on TL is 4 zergs in the RO4...
On October 25 2019 15:05 dysenterymd wrote: I think Maru beats Stats and then eliminates Time in the rematch
I wouldn't bet on it, while it appears Maru doing his GSL RO16 shenanigans with avoiding the winner match by losing first series, Stats v Maru BO5 is tricky as shit. It's one ofthose times of Maru outside GSL and MAru in the group stages.
True, at the same time I feel Maru had enough time to prepare to at least advance in second . I want one of the two Terran to advance from this group, it's bad for the game if there's zero terran representation in the ro8
... Dear god just looked at the brackets. Mostly Protoss and Zergs. That'll be miserable.
Maru hwaiting.
Time being the last hope of Terran would be a cool story, but then again I think his only realistic chance at a ro4 is if Reynor or Elazer tops their group and then goes against him in the ro8. Still, a Chinese player at blizzcon would be great for viewership numbers.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Game 3 was not perfect balance wise.
Stats feels compelled to do adept timing, which is garbage with the new OL speed buff.
All Zerg has to do is survive to lategame.
Game 3 was not a balance issue. He decides to do a build which wasn't a real allin but rather a smaller commitment. If he kills 11 workers without actually losing 11 himself, that is alright. You could clearly tell that Protoss timing was still hard hitting and he was insanely far behind. In every match, you can pinpoint errors. I think nydus/swarmhost and bl/infestors are really an issue even if the Protoss is a) better and b) playing near perfect. Not saying Serral is worse per se, but I don't think Stats could have taken the main fights on acropolis a lot better and it wasnt close. Smaller stuff he can fix is not leaving nydus, not losing so many probes to harassment etc.
G3 was him not walling.
At the same time we can ask if Stast would have goner for such build with a better balance situation, which is one of the things people here are saying. While it is not a blance issue game, it still is
I understand your point but I disagree with that statement. There have been situations in Starcraft where a race felt the need to allin. Best example would probably be WoL BL/Infestor TvZ. It was 2-2 timing or die trying or any other build that can finish the game before that state.
For the adept push, that has been around for ages and it was played when skytoss was broken still. If the game would be absolute fine in lategame, I would say Stats would probably rather go down his more macro heavy approach but I wouldnt make the argument that he only did that timing cause he felt its "unwinnable". If that would be his call and honest at that, he wouldn't play a single macro game.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Game 3 was not perfect balance wise.
Stats feels compelled to do adept timing, which is garbage with the new OL speed buff.
All Zerg has to do is survive to lategame.
Eh I don't agree. That build obviously gambles quite a bit on whether the zerg opens with overlord speed, but it's not an insta-loss if scouted either. Serral just reacted well and defended well enough.
Well that's the thing. Serral is the perfect Zerg and Stats is the perfect Protoss, at least in PvZ
If everything is played perfectly then zerg auto wins. and at the highest level it's so easy. have there even been any successful adept openings in gsl or wcs after the ol speed buff?
the risk to reward ratio is not protoss favored at all. even in g1 stats' proxy stargate wasnt even scouted and reacted to perfectly and it didnt put a dent in serral.
not to mention the fact that without the recent warp prism nerf, stats' prism wouldve survived in g3
On October 25 2019 15:05 dysenterymd wrote: I think Maru beats Stats and then eliminates Time in the rematch
I wouldn't bet on it, while it appears Maru doing his GSL RO16 shenanigans with avoiding the winner match by losing first series, Stats v Maru BO5 is tricky as shit. It's one ofthose times of Maru outside GSL and MAru in the group stages.
True, at the same time I feel Maru had enough time to prepare to at least advance in second . I want one of the two Terran to advance from this group, it's bad for the game if there's zero terran representation in the ro8
... Dear god just looked at the brackets. Mostly Protoss and Zergs. That'll be miserable.
Maru hwaiting.
Still, a Chinese player at blizzcon would be great for viewership numbers.
No it wouldn't, most Chinese viewers are not on Twitch so their number is not counted.
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
Game 3 was not perfect balance wise.
Stats feels compelled to do adept timing, which is garbage with the new OL speed buff.
All Zerg has to do is survive to lategame.
Game 3 was not a balance issue. He decides to do a build which wasn't a real allin but rather a smaller commitment. If he kills 11 workers without actually losing 11 himself, that is alright. You could clearly tell that Protoss timing was still hard hitting and he was insanely far behind. In every match, you can pinpoint errors. I think nydus/swarmhost and bl/infestors are really an issue even if the Protoss is a) better and b) playing near perfect. Not saying Serral is worse per se, but I don't think Stats could have taken the main fights on acropolis a lot better and it wasnt close. Smaller stuff he can fix is not leaving nydus, not losing so many probes to harassment etc.
G3 was him not walling.
At the same time we can ask if Stast would have goner for such build with a better balance situation, which is one of the things people here are saying. While it is not a blance issue game, it still is
I don't think balanced made Stats unable to build a pylon behind his stalker
On October 25 2019 15:16 FBTsingLoong wrote: It would be good if we can have an interview with the chief developer about the balance. Fxxk,I don't want to complain at all.But I can't help.
''When did you decide that what Starcraft 2 needed was another year of infestor/broodlord?''
On October 25 2019 15:00 TaKeTV wrote: First map was the only relevant in terms of balance-discussion. 2nd and 3rd Stats had horrible mistakes.
Nydus always feels kinda bad even when the Protoss makes mistakes since it feels so much more forgiving for the zerg. Game 3 was perfectly fine balance-wise though.
I mean sure, but if he sees the nydus, he simply wins the game on being ahead. So while its forgiving in a sense that you can kinda spam to try and put the nydus in place, it certainly is very commited though
The issue with Nydus is that if Protoss makes one mistake they're dead, whereas zerg gets a number of second chances for the low low price of 50/50.
In that game Serral would have been dead without the Nydus working since he got his drones obliterated.
let me tell you a secret
nydus eventually works vs protoss
it only works if you play against players 2 tiers below you
I can easily lost to nydus from player almost 1k MMR below. I suck, sure. But nydus is broken, simple.
At some point blizzard needs to realise that trying to balance lategame is totally futile and one race will always have an advantage, leading to defensive gameplay. Lategame of all races needs nerfing across the board IMO and midgame units should be the focus. Lategame and massive air units should be a way to close games if you are massively ahead, not a core strategy, goes for all races.
Just looking at the brackets... I think I now just want all protoss to lose. I would rather blizzvzvzvzcon than to have more than 1 pvz in the ro8.
I would LOVE all remaining terrans to get through but we all know that is not going to happen. zvz on repeat with the (probably 1) remaining T in the ro8 is the least worst probable outcome
Serral is a really good player, at this point nobody can denied that. But aid that player with broken units/mechanics/design and you will see this level of dominance. Just imagine if Stephano had corrosive bilis on his roach prime to defend against inmortal timmings.
On October 25 2019 15:18 Circumstance wrote: ...Well, I tried to divert the talk from an inherently toxic subject.
how is this a "toxic topic"
we are all sitting here for hours, most of us at ungodly hours, watching the game we enjoy because of the concept of asymmetric but balanced races
what happens when the balance is like this though?
instead of sweeping it under the rug acting like nothing is off, like the cringe attempts of doing so like the casters, we discuss it...why wouldnt we?
On October 25 2019 15:18 Circumstance wrote: ...Well, I tried to divert the talk from an inherently toxic subject.
how is this a "toxic topic"
we are all sitting here for hours, most of us at ungodly hours, watching the game we enjoy because of the concept of asymmetric but balanced races
what happens when the balance is like this though?
instead of sweeping it under the rug acting like nothing is off, like the cringe attempts of doing so like the casters, we discuss it...why wouldnt we?
its a toxic topic for numerous reasons. first reasons this thread derailed into balance whine and you just can't let go and be objective.
On October 25 2019 15:23 NotSoHappy wrote: i really hope we will get 4 zergs in ro4 so people get what they want, because you all want it, you silly masochists
I prefer ZvZ over PvZ by a lot atm so it wouldn't be the worst thing for me.
On October 25 2019 15:21 TheSneak wrote: Just looking at the brackets... I think I now just want all protoss to lose. I would rather blizzvzvzvzcon than to have more than 1 pvz in the ro8.
I would LOVE all remaining terrans to get through but we all know that is not going to happen. zvz on repeat with the (probably 1) remaining T in the ro8 is the least worst probable outcome
I don't want all Protoss to lose. I expect it (Except maybe Trap or Chintoss) but I don't want it
On the flip side v con would give hope that the dev team would finally get a clue. Knowing them from their patches though, they'd celebrate the death of Protoss as a job well done
Can we all take a moment to appreciate how sick Time is? When balance is a little better for Terran I can see him being a championship contender in the WCS circuit
On October 25 2019 15:28 dysenterymd wrote: Can we all take a moment to appreciate how sick Time is? When balance is a little better for Terran I can see him being a championship contender in the WCS circuit
ZvP's imbalance is well known; it's partially a consequence of the ridicolous wave of senseless whine against Protoss earlier this year(you were so happy to see Protoss nerfed back then, weren't you?), and it will be fixed after BlizzCon.
Blaming Serral for 3-0ing Stats while, if Rogue or Dark were the ones who did, I would be reading how godlike and skilled they are...
On October 25 2019 15:30 Xain0n wrote: Overflowing hypocrisy.
ZvP's imbalance is well known; it's partially a consequence of the ridicolous wave of senseless whine against Protoss earlier this year(you were so happy to see Protoss nerfed back then, weren't you?), and it will be fixed after BlizzCon.
Blaming Serral for 3-0ing Stats while, if Rogue or Dark were the ones who did, I would be reading how godlike and skilled they are...
On October 25 2019 15:30 Xain0n wrote: Overflowing hypocrisy.
ZvP's imbalance is well known; it's partially a consequence of the ridicolous wave of senseless whine against Protoss earlier this year(you were so happy to see Protoss nerfed back then, weren't you?), and it will be fixed after BlizzCon.
Blaming Serral for 3-0ing Stats while, if Rogue or Dark were the ones who did, I would be reading how godlike and skilled they are...
You weren't around yesterday when Dark beat Showtime were you?
On October 25 2019 15:30 Xain0n wrote: Overflowing hypocrisy.
ZvP's imbalance is well known; it's partially a consequence of the ridicolous wave of senseless whine against Protoss earlier this year(you were so happy to see Protoss nerfed back then, weren't you?), and it will be fixed after BlizzCon.
Blaming Serral for 3-0ing Stats while, if Rogue or Dark were the ones who did, I would be reading how godlike and skilled they are...
Wow, someone actually speaking the truth.
This is what sc2 community gets for whinning about the protoss all these years while it was the protoss what was underpowered in most of the patches.
To add to it, yesterday group were marginally won by the koreans and both special and showtime just fucked up their games for #2 spot.
On October 25 2019 15:30 Xain0n wrote: Overflowing hypocrisy.
ZvP's imbalance is well known; it's partially a consequence of the ridicolous wave of senseless whine against Protoss earlier this year(you were so happy to see Protoss nerfed back then, weren't you?), and it will be fixed after BlizzCon.
Blaming Serral for 3-0ing Stats while, if Rogue or Dark were the ones who did, I would be reading how godlike and skilled they are...
Are you on crack? People whined like crazy about Dark and soO beating Throwtime yesterday. Imagine if they beat Stats.
On October 25 2019 15:18 Circumstance wrote: ...Well, I tried to divert the talk from an inherently toxic subject.
how is this a "toxic topic"
we are all sitting here for hours, most of us at ungodly hours, watching the game we enjoy because of the concept of asymmetric but balanced races
what happens when the balance is like this though?
instead of sweeping it under the rug acting like nothing is off, like the cringe attempts of doing so like the casters, we discuss it...why wouldnt we?
Why not, but saying Stats lost the last game (the only one I saw so far) because of balance when he basically got massively behind with a little and very standart runby while he was executing a heavy pressure build (whatever it is) is not acting in good faith. Unless you want to nerf zergling' speed or sth.
On October 25 2019 15:30 Xain0n wrote: Overflowing hypocrisy.
ZvP's imbalance is well known; it's partially a consequence of the ridicolous wave of senseless whine against Protoss earlier this year(you were so happy to see Protoss nerfed back then, weren't you?), and it will be fixed after BlizzCon.
Blaming Serral for 3-0ing Stats while, if Rogue or Dark were the ones who did, I would be reading how godlike and skilled they are...
Are you on crack? People whined like crazy about Dark and soO beating Throwtime yesterday. Imagine if they beat Stats.
I was there. Someone complained, definitely did not whine like "crazy", this LR thread is much more whiny; some other stated that #1 KR beating #8 EU was in the natural order of things, regardless of balance.
Zerg is powerful right now, but balance is far from historically bad. At least random Zergs like Sniper and Roro aren't winning tournaments, it's Zerg who have already been very good in more balanced metas who are winning tournaments. It will still be good when Zerg is nerfed a bit after Blizzcon
On October 25 2019 15:39 OsaX Nymloth wrote: Wait, yesterday's LR told me mutt mutts are very bad unit and one should make them only when they want to lose. DID LR LIE TO ME?!
On October 25 2019 15:37 dysenterymd wrote: Zerg is powerful right now, but balance is far from historically bad. At least random Zergs like Sniper and Roro aren't winning tournaments, it's Zerg who have already been very good in more balanced metas who are winning tournaments. It will still be good when Zerg is nerfed a bit after Blizzcon
ALso why fly those medivacs in Time
I think the fact zergs like Sniper and Roro not winning tournaments is more an indictment on the state of the Korean scene that it is a comment on balance. I could easily counter with Ragnarok doing so well after being out for so long
On October 25 2019 15:18 Circumstance wrote: ...Well, I tried to divert the talk from an inherently toxic subject.
how is this a "toxic topic"
we are all sitting here for hours, most of us at ungodly hours, watching the game we enjoy because of the concept of asymmetric but balanced races
what happens when the balance is like this though?
instead of sweeping it under the rug acting like nothing is off, like the cringe attempts of doing so like the casters, we discuss it...why wouldnt we?
Why not, but saying Stats lost the last game (the only one I saw so far) because of balance when he basically got massively behind with a little and very standart runby while he was executing a heavy pressure build (whatever it is) is not acting in good faith. Unless you want to nerf zergling' speed or sth.
Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
On October 25 2019 15:37 dysenterymd wrote: Zerg is powerful right now, but balance is far from historically bad. At least random Zergs like Sniper and Roro aren't winning tournaments, it's Zerg who have already been very good in more balanced metas who are winning tournaments. It will still be good when Zerg is nerfed a bit after Blizzcon
ALso why fly those medivacs in Time
I think the fact zergs like Sniper and Roro not winning tournaments is more an indictment on the state of the Korean scene that it is a comment on balance. I could easily counter with Ragnarok doing so well after being out for so long
Don't talk shit about my boy Ragnarok. He plays nice honest zerg with ling/bane/muta or ling/bane/hydra.
On October 25 2019 15:37 dysenterymd wrote: Zerg is powerful right now, but balance is far from historically bad. At least random Zergs like Sniper and Roro aren't winning tournaments, it's Zerg who have already been very good in more balanced metas who are winning tournaments. It will still be good when Zerg is nerfed a bit after Blizzcon
ALso why fly those medivacs in Time
I think the fact zergs like Sniper and Roro not winning tournaments is more an indictment on the state of the Korean scene that it is a comment on balance. I could easily counter with Ragnarok doing so well after being out for so long
Don't talk shit about my boy Ragnarok. He plays nice honest zerg with ling/bane/muta or ling/bane/hydra.
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
On October 25 2019 15:43 dysenterymd wrote: Serral did win there with really good muta ling bane for what it's worth. Doesn't mean zerg isn't OP, just means Serral is more than a patch zerg
To be fair it's not like everything is OP about Zerg. It's mostly Nydus and Blord/Infestor that needs to be looked at. However none of these were critical in G1...
On October 25 2019 15:18 Circumstance wrote: ...Well, I tried to divert the talk from an inherently toxic subject.
how is this a "toxic topic"
we are all sitting here for hours, most of us at ungodly hours, watching the game we enjoy because of the concept of asymmetric but balanced races
what happens when the balance is like this though?
instead of sweeping it under the rug acting like nothing is off, like the cringe attempts of doing so like the casters, we discuss it...why wouldnt we?
Why not, but saying Stats lost the last game (the only one I saw so far) because of balance when he basically got massively behind with a little and very standart runby while he was executing a heavy pressure build (whatever it is) is not acting in good faith. Unless you want to nerf zergling' speed or sth.
not zergling speed
overlord speed
Wouldn't have change the fact Stats lost to zergling speed.
On October 25 2019 15:43 dysenterymd wrote: Serral did win there with really good muta ling bane for what it's worth. Doesn't mean zerg isn't OP, just means Serral is more than a patch zerg
To be fair it's not like everything is OP about Zerg. It's mostly Nydus and Blord/Infestor that needs to be looked at. However none of these were critical in G1...
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
On October 25 2019 15:30 Xain0n wrote: Overflowing hypocrisy.
ZvP's imbalance is well known; it's partially a consequence of the ridicolous wave of senseless whine against Protoss earlier this year(you were so happy to see Protoss nerfed back then, weren't you?), and it will be fixed after BlizzCon.
Blaming Serral for 3-0ing Stats while, if Rogue or Dark were the ones who did, I would be reading how godlike and skilled they are...
On October 25 2019 15:43 dysenterymd wrote: Serral did win there with really good muta ling bane for what it's worth. Doesn't mean zerg isn't OP, just means Serral is more than a patch zerg
To be fair it's not like everything is OP about Zerg. It's mostly Nydus and Blord/Infestor that needs to be looked at. However none of these were critical in G1...
TvZ is considered pretty balanced is it not?
Relative to ZvP at least. I think infestor broodlord is still really hard to beat, but nydus isn't quite as overwhelming mid game. Would still consider it slightly zerg favoured.
On October 25 2019 15:43 dysenterymd wrote: Serral did win there with really good muta ling bane for what it's worth. Doesn't mean zerg isn't OP, just means Serral is more than a patch zerg
To be fair it's not like everything is OP about Zerg. It's mostly Nydus and Blord/Infestor that needs to be looked at. However none of these were critical in G1...
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
They should make mutas 75/75 and proceed to destroy infestors, SHs and Nydus.
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
regardless of whether mutas are garbage or not
i dont know why anyone would compare them to hydras
What would people think about Nydus requiring infestation pit? I think Nydus versus protoss is very tempo based, and if you gave toss a bit more time to prepare it might make it a lot more manageable mid game
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Well, usually you have to make a choice between mutas and hydras because of the gas hence my comparaison. I thought you would understand that but whatever.
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
regardless of whether mutas are garbage or not
i dont know why anyone would compare them to hydras
Because hydras are the alternative lair tech option in ZvT that has surfaced after their multiple buffs in LotV and seems to consistently outperform mutas, except on very big and choky maps (eg Eastwatch)
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
They should make mutas 75/75 and proceed to destroy infestors, SHs and Nydus.
They'd still die to a spore in 2.5 seconds, so maybe that would be more reasonable (in ZvZ) than it sounds.
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
regardless of whether mutas are garbage or not
i dont know why anyone would compare them to hydras
Because hydras are the alternative lair tech option in ZvT that has surfaced after their multiple buffs in LotV and seems to consistently outperform mutas, except on very big and choky maps (eg Eastwatch)
Not completely sure, but Disco might be one of those maps. Hard to say with ravagers being so much more popular than hydras as is.
Yikes, this isn't looking good for Time. Serral has been pretty vocal that being down 20 supply is fine as long as you have decent creep spread against Terran, and he's up about 20 supply with great creep spread...
On October 25 2019 15:55 FBTsingLoong wrote: I got a question.What's the shorthand of armor or attack upgrade?For example,how do you call "Infantry Armor Level 3"?
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
They should make mutas 75/75 and proceed to destroy infestors, SHs and Nydus.
They'd still die to a spore in 2.5 seconds, so maybe that would be more reasonable (in ZvZ) than it sounds.
Mutas flock would became insanely strong. I trade an heavy nerf of hydras and bl for a buff on the spire time building and air upgrads tho.
On October 25 2019 15:53 Charoisaur wrote: The last 2 korean blizzcon winners have lost their initial match to a foreigner
Did they then go against one of the best players in the world and one of their nemesis? (Maru is equal in games against Stats and losing in mthe map score)
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
They should make mutas 75/75 and proceed to destroy infestors, SHs and Nydus.
They'd still die to a spore in 2.5 seconds, so maybe that would be more reasonable (in ZvZ) than it sounds.
Mutas flock would became insanely strong. I trade an heavy nerf of hydras and bl for a buff on the spire time building and air upgrads tho.
Spire should go back to the 200/150 cost from BW ;o
Nerfing BL Infestor might require buffs somewhere else to make things balanced in ZvP, but in ZvT it seems Zerg already has plenty of non BL infestor options.
On October 25 2019 16:00 dysenterymd wrote: Nerfing BL Infestor might require buffs somewhere else to make things balanced in ZvP, but in ZvT it seems Zerg already has plenty of non BL infestor options.
Also is Serral going to 6-0 the group of death?
He's gonna go 6-0 because he didnt play Maru. Simple as that
On October 25 2019 15:45 ChaosArcher wrote: Time is sooooo good. His baneling focus fire is very fun to watch. Anyone else should have been dead, but he is playing against the best in the world.
but the error tolerance for Terran and Zerg is not the same level. One baneling, boooom! gg for terran
On October 25 2019 15:43 stilt wrote: Mutas needs to be in mass, cost 50 gas more than hydras, have a low range, only long-ass air upgrads, they just demonstrated their potential but in the current meta, hydras seem way more stable and reasonnable to use.
is this a real post?
they perform completely different roles
mutas dont have to worry about tanks, hellbats, marauders, chargelots, adepts, immortals, colossi, etc...
mutas have unmatched mobility
hydras are a backbone ground unit. mutas are for harass/support
Mutalisks are garbage. They are shit at what they are supposed to do and worse at everything else. They need separated upgrades and use the most expensive tech building in the game.
Mutalisks are garbage.
regardless of whether mutas are garbage or not
i dont know why anyone would compare them to hydras
Because hydras are the alternative lair tech option in ZvT that has surfaced after their multiple buffs in LotV and seems to consistently outperform mutas, except on very big and choky maps (eg Eastwatch)
in what world do they consistently outperform mutas lol
you dont even build them in the same scenario (they are used in different strategies)
On October 25 2019 16:00 dysenterymd wrote: Nerfing BL Infestor might require buffs somewhere else to make things balanced in ZvP, but in ZvT it seems Zerg already has plenty of non BL infestor options.
Also is Serral going to 6-0 the group of death?
He's gonna go 6-0 because he didnt play Maru. Simple as that
In this case it's the other way around... Maru did not play him.
On October 25 2019 16:00 dysenterymd wrote: Nerfing BL Infestor might require buffs somewhere else to make things balanced in ZvP, but in ZvT it seems Zerg already has plenty of non BL infestor options.
Also is Serral going to 6-0 the group of death?
There is no group of death, serral is death and everyone else is just fighting for the number two spot
Also maru vs serral Will never happen Time after Time serral waits ans maru dodges
On October 25 2019 16:00 dysenterymd wrote: Nerfing BL Infestor might require buffs somewhere else to make things balanced in ZvP, but in ZvT it seems Zerg already has plenty of non BL infestor options.
Also is Serral going to 6-0 the group of death?
He's gonna go 6-0 because he didnt play Maru. Simple as that
In this case it's the other way around... Maru did not play him.
Maru is dodging Maru. Always has since he got embarrased by Maru at WESG
On October 25 2019 16:00 dysenterymd wrote: Nerfing BL Infestor might require buffs somewhere else to make things balanced in ZvP, but in ZvT it seems Zerg already has plenty of non BL infestor options.
Also is Serral going to 6-0 the group of death?
He's gonna go 6-0 because he didnt play Maru. Simple as that
On October 25 2019 15:45 ChaosArcher wrote: Time is sooooo good. His baneling focus fire is very fun to watch. Anyone else should have been dead, but he is playing against the best in the world.
but the error tolerance for Terran and Zerg is not the same level. One baneling, boooom! gg for terran
Terran has widow mines to return the favour. And are you seriously arguing that ling/bane/muta is broken?
This is just sad to watch. What a disappointing group... Time prepares to only snipe Maru and then let's Serral butcher him. Stats plays like crap today of all days, and Serral can just laugh again how easy they are making it for him. Meh
On October 25 2019 16:04 MarianoSC2 wrote: This is just sad to watch. What a disappointing group... Time prepares to only snipe Maru and then let's Serral butcher him. Stats plays like crap today of all days, and Serral can just laugh again how easy they are making it for him. Meh
TIME did not make it easy for Serral, game 1 he almost won. That could have changed things a bit.
On October 25 2019 16:04 MarianoSC2 wrote: This is just sad to watch. What a disappointing group... Time prepares to only snipe Maru and then let's Serral butcher him. Stats plays like crap today of all days, and Serral can just laugh again how easy they are making it for him. Meh
TIME did not make it easy for Serral, game 1 he almost won. That could have changed things a bit.
On October 25 2019 16:04 MarianoSC2 wrote: This is just sad to watch. What a disappointing group... Time prepares to only snipe Maru and then let's Serral butcher him. Stats plays like crap today of all days, and Serral can just laugh again how easy they are making it for him. Meh
On October 25 2019 16:08 Meeii wrote: Well it could not have been a worse start of the day. Just wait for Maru to lose to Stats now and then Stats winning against Time.
Guess that's what happens if you have the best player in the world playing the by far strongest race in the game. He makes the game unwatchable because it looks so unfair
gotta increase Serral's chance of winning Blizzcon to around 60% now
Can't see anyone beating him in a series (unless Maru survives the group and plays Serral later in the tournament but I bet even if he made it out of this group, he'd lose to anyone in order to dodge Serral).
On October 25 2019 16:04 MarianoSC2 wrote: This is just sad to watch. What a disappointing group... Time prepares to only snipe Maru and then let's Serral butcher him. Stats plays like crap today of all days, and Serral can just laugh again how easy they are making it for him. Meh
how did stats play like crap...?
Game1 bad strategy, game2 abysmal scouting, game3 didn't wall. Those are mistakes he should not be making at this level. Even more so a player well known for his immaculate defense
On October 25 2019 16:11 NoS-Craig wrote: The balance anger in this thread is real. Here I am thinking all the hate towards Terran in BW because of Flash was bad.
We're 3/8 Zergs in the RO8 ATM and there is a good chance it won't stop at this number.
On October 25 2019 16:08 Meeii wrote: Well it could not have been a worse start of the day. Just wait for Maru to lose to Stats now and then Stats winning against Time.
I think the day has gone pretty well, so far.
Hey, I agree! :D Now for Stats to win against Maru and after that I don't really care who wins at TIME vs Stats as I like Stats but having a Terran advance would be nice too.
On October 25 2019 15:45 ChaosArcher wrote: Time is sooooo good. His baneling focus fire is very fun to watch. Anyone else should have been dead, but he is playing against the best in the world.
but the error tolerance for Terran and Zerg is not the same level. One baneling, boooom! gg for terran
Terran has widow mines to return the favour. And are you seriously arguing that ling/bane/muta is broken?
No, ling/bane/muta is not broken, but with Nydus it is broken. in this case, massive anti-air missles become useless when facing mutas, you still have to pull your major army back to defend, then it is hardly to defend its front.
On October 25 2019 16:04 MarianoSC2 wrote: This is just sad to watch. What a disappointing group... Time prepares to only snipe Maru and then let's Serral butcher him. Stats plays like crap today of all days, and Serral can just laugh again how easy they are making it for him. Meh
how did stats play like crap...?
Game1 bad strategy, game2 abysmal scouting, game3 didn't wall. Those are mistakes he should not be making at this level. Even more so a player well known for his immaculate defense
game 1 stats outplayed serral lol. unless by bad strategy u mean attempting to go lategame
game 2 stats missed the randomly placed nydus network by a few pixels
game 3 was subpar but he wouldve lost anyway thanks to how ridiculous OL speed is now
On October 25 2019 16:09 Kitai wrote: At this point the polls should just be about who we think the Blizzcon runner-up will be.
1. Reynor 2. Rogue 3. Dark
Make your choice.
Not feeling Reynor. He has yet to translate circuit success into playing well vs Koreans. Could see Dark or Rogue pretty easily. Personally, I hope it's Classic.
On October 25 2019 16:04 v5872012 wrote: funny overlord speed + mutalisk + nydus + bl/infestor can't tell why zerg can lose
Serral the biggest (and best) patchzerg abuser of all time
That's so incredibly wrong! A multipatch Zerg, maybe. Why just not admit he's incredibly skilled, regardless of how strong Zerg is?
I admit it all the time. It's just a shame we can't see his real skill level compared to other pros because of the state of the game. It diminishes his otherwise great feats. And unlucky that one of the players who could beat him got sniped yet again. (shame on you Maru)
On October 25 2019 16:14 Azzur wrote: Too bad its impossible to have 8 Zergs in the Ro8. Ah well, will settle for 6/8
I'd expect 4/8, tomorrow I expect none and then Rogue should make it unless Neeb and Trap go complete beastmode. At this point I'd trust Neeb more than Trap to beat Rogue, Trap is slumping hard.
On October 25 2019 16:04 v5872012 wrote: funny overlord speed + mutalisk + nydus + bl/infestor can't tell why zerg can lose
Serral the biggest (and best) patchzerg abuser of all time
That's so incredibly wrong! A multipatch Zerg, maybe. Why just not admit he's incredibly skilled, regardless of how strong Zerg is?
I admit it all the time. It's just a shame we can't see his real skill level compared to other pros because of the state of the game. It diminishes his otherwise great feats. And unlucky that one of the players who could beat him got sniped yet again. (shame on you Maru)
Didn't you have the opportunity of seeing what his skill level was last year, for example? Why would you ever pretend he won because of his race?
On October 25 2019 16:04 v5872012 wrote: funny overlord speed + mutalisk + nydus + bl/infestor can't tell why zerg can lose
Serral the biggest (and best) patchzerg abuser of all time
That's so incredibly wrong! A multipatch Zerg, maybe. Why just not admit he's incredibly skilled, regardless of how strong Zerg is?
Funny thing is, the non-sarcastic version of this was actually a question I was pondering not long ago. Who was the biggest patchpro ever?
Unpopular opinion, but I actually think it's Zest. His amazing form in 2014 was during a period of time where protoss was super dominant and he won playing almost entirely PvP's. While he has become more rounded since then, his initial success was some of the biggest bracket / balance luck of all time imo.
On October 25 2019 16:09 Kitai wrote: At this point the polls should just be about who we think the Blizzcon runner-up will be.
1. Reynor 2. Rogue 3. Dark
Make your choice.
Not feeling Reynor. He has yet to translate circuit success into playing well vs Koreans. Could see Dark or Rogue pretty easily. Personally, I hope it's Classic.
Yeah, I have a feeling Reynor is also only exceptionally strong against Serral in ZvZ, he doesn't really do that well against other Zergs in ZvZ. And even against Serral, I wouldn't favour him.
On October 25 2019 16:20 Circumstance wrote: I would argue that Roro was bigger than Sniper. Sniper proved his credentials by remaining in esports at a high level for another six years.
RorO was by far the best Zerg for the entire duration of the GSL he won. After his success, he remained the best player on Samsung Galaxy, as their designated ace, and de facto carried the team in Proleague.
People who call RorO a patchzerg don't know much about RorO.
On October 25 2019 16:20 Circumstance wrote: I would argue that Roro was bigger than Sniper. Sniper proved his credentials by remaining in esports at a high level for another six years.
RorO was by far the best Zerg for the entire duration of the GSL he won. After his success, he remained the best player on Samsung Galaxy, as their designated ace, and de facto carried the team in Proleague.
People who call RorO a patchzerg don't know much about RorO.
He could have been a great player if he didn't retire so quick
On October 25 2019 16:09 Kitai wrote: At this point the polls should just be about who we think the Blizzcon runner-up will be.
1. Reynor 2. Rogue 3. Dark
Make your choice.
Not feeling Reynor. He has yet to translate circuit success into playing well vs Koreans. Could see Dark or Rogue pretty easily. Personally, I hope it's Classic.
If what I hear is true, Reynor is almost 7k mmr on korean server, and you can all see what's the state of ZvP right now. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get out of the group!
On October 25 2019 16:22 DieuCure wrote: If Maru doesn't survive this Blizzcon will have a terrible viewership.
ZvZvZvZvP is fun for WCS Circuit fans, but not necessarily for SC2 fans.
Yes, I really hope he'll be able to qualify. How was TIME vs Serral? I only saw the typical muta harassing, banelings waiting for big a click while terran tries to pre-spread while clearing creep game (2nd loss of TIME)
On October 25 2019 16:20 Circumstance wrote: I would argue that Roro was bigger than Sniper. Sniper proved his credentials by remaining in esports at a high level for another six years.
RorO was by far the best Zerg for the entire duration of the GSL he won. After his success, he remained the best player on Samsung Galaxy, as their designated ace, and de facto carried the team in Proleague.
People who call RorO a patchzerg don't know much about RorO.
He could have been a great player if he didn't retire so quick
Maru just dodged Serral so he does not have to reveal any build orders, so he can stomp him later in the playoffs. At least thats what i want to believe, that would be the foresight of a true champion.
On October 25 2019 16:31 Rob-Zero wrote: Maru just dodged Serral so he does not have to reveal any build orders, so he can stomp him later in the playoffs. At least thats what i want to believe, that would be the foresight of a true champion.
On October 25 2019 16:31 Rob-Zero wrote: Maru just dodged Serral so he does not have to reveal any build orders, so he can stomp him later in the playoffs. At least thats what i want to believe, that would be the foresight of a true champion.
Which means playing a TvT for him. His bestest everest match up
On October 25 2019 16:09 Kitai wrote: At this point the polls should just be about who we think the Blizzcon runner-up will be.
1. Reynor 2. Rogue 3. Dark
Make your choice.
Not feeling Reynor. He has yet to translate circuit success into playing well vs Koreans. Could see Dark or Rogue pretty easily. Personally, I hope it's Classic.
If what I hear is true, Reynor is almost 7k mmr on korean server, and you can all see what's the state of ZvP right now. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get out of the group!
Harstem said multiple times on his stream that Reynor is a monster in ZvP right now, and in his prediction video on YT he said he expect him to win his group tomorrow against herO and Classic, so I guess at least we can be cautiously optimistics.
On October 25 2019 16:11 NoS-Craig wrote: The balance anger in this thread is real. Here I am thinking all the hate towards Terran in BW because of Flash was bad.
The difference: in BW normally the final is between Flash and Jaedong, but in current patch, it is exiting game is serral vs another zerg.
luckily korea just have two good zergs and we can see a non-zvz final, though it were two clean sweeps.
Serral is no doubt the best zerg and the best player atm, but zerg is simply the op race. Protoss chose a lategame strategy being called "bad strategy", then what we can say.
On October 25 2019 16:09 Kitai wrote: At this point the polls should just be about who we think the Blizzcon runner-up will be.
1. Reynor 2. Rogue 3. Dark
Make your choice.
Not feeling Reynor. He has yet to translate circuit success into playing well vs Koreans. Could see Dark or Rogue pretty easily. Personally, I hope it's Classic.
If what I hear is true, Reynor is almost 7k mmr on korean server, and you can all see what's the state of ZvP right now. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get out of the group!
Harstem said multiple times on his stream that Reynor is a monster in ZvP right now, and in his prediction video on YT he said he expect him to win his group tomorrow against herO and Classic, so I guess at least we can be cautiously optimistics.
At least when i watch Serral i can see him winning because of his skill, sure zerg is favored right now, but he is clearly outplaying his opponents with clever positioning and good map awareness etc. It was not like Dark vs Showtime where Dark only won games with swarmhost Nydus, that was really sad to watch.
On October 25 2019 16:11 NoS-Craig wrote: The balance anger in this thread is real. Here I am thinking all the hate towards Terran in BW because of Flash was bad.
The difference: in BW normally the final is between Flash and Jaedong
On October 25 2019 16:39 Rob-Zero wrote: At least when i watch Serral i can see him winning because of his skill, sure zerg is favored right now, but he is clearly outplaying his opponents with clever positioning and good map awareness etc. It was not like Dark vs Showtime where Dark only won games with swarmhost Nydus, that was really sad to watch.
Good map awareness. Talks about Zerg. With creep. And overlords. Mkey.
On October 25 2019 16:39 Rob-Zero wrote: At least when i watch Serral i can see him winning because of his skill, sure zerg is favored right now, but he is clearly outplaying his opponents with clever positioning and good map awareness etc. It was not like Dark vs Showtime where Dark only won games with swarmhost Nydus, that was really sad to watch.
Good map awareness. Talks about Zerg. With creep. And overlords. Mkey.
Takes one thing out of the post just to criticise someone instead of giving some proper reply to the real statement. Mkey.
Zerg have every f**** advantage they have in this season. Maps Overlord speed eliminate every tactics Protoss/Terran gonna use in early game. Mutalisk + Nydus eliminate every chance that Protoss/Terran can push in mid game. BL/Infestor eliminate every chance that Protoss/Terran can win in late game. Balance is now a hillarious joke, so the matchup.
On October 25 2019 17:08 NoS-Craig wrote: Those Carriers got owned in the end. Looked like Stats didn't have enough time to get enough Carriers out to stop Maru.
I think Vikings + EMP is just too brutal for carriers to survive.
On October 25 2019 17:21 Geo.Rion wrote: What a one sided series :/ Must be some sort of balance issue, right?
nah
Mr. Protoss himself, one of the only 2 protoss players in the world who could win a non NA premier tournament over the last 2 years, just plays badly and makes mistakes
On October 25 2019 17:26 NotSoHappy wrote: how's ro8 seeded?
Depends what kind of cheating will Blizzard pull of this time? The last year they did some weird ruling right before the "random" lottery happened. (kinda ish random)
On October 25 2019 17:26 NotSoHappy wrote: how's ro8 seeded?
Depends what kind of cheating will Blizzard pull of this time? The last year they did some weird ruling right before the "random" lottery happened. (kinda ish random)
Blizzard's mistake last year was that they seeded thinking they had to help Serral make it to the finals and that Maru would destroy everything on the way there. They had to do it the other way around.
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The quality of this forum is taking a massive nosedive when morons like you presume to call Serral a patchzerg (TM). When you let contrarians who rarely offer substance like Deacon.Frost run amok with borderline troll comments 24/7, ish turns into Twitch chat eventually. Good times.
On October 25 2019 17:18 fgonzo wrote: Wow! Stats played as perfectly as any Protoss can. But Maru just played better. Great game
You mean Maru played well while Stats played terribly?
Stats could have played like a god and he still would've lost 0-3. It's not the players, it's the balance.
Didn't he 3-0 this very same player in similar fashion on the same patch 2 months ago?
no
stats 3-0'd maru before enhanced shockwave came out
after enhanced shockwave maru is like 5-0 against stats (code S now this)
Maru is a 21 years old 4GSL in a row winner, whereas Stats is like 26 last WCS KR seed on the best year for protoss regarding WCS seeds, so that means the patch allowed better terran players to win in TvP. Against a good PvTer Maru still lost 1-4 so protoss definitely has options against terran.
I'm just tuning in now. Though I don't know why I'm bothering. Rematch curse means that Maru can basically be AFK and win. Has nothing to do with skill at this point.
On October 25 2019 17:26 NotSoHappy wrote: how's ro8 seeded?
Depends what kind of cheating will Blizzard pull of this time? The last year they did some weird ruling right before the "random" lottery happened. (kinda ish random)
Blizzard's mistake last year was that they seeded thinking they had to help Serral make it to the finals and that Maru would destroy everything on the way there. They had to do it the other way around.
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Hey, wasn't that about saving the terran race? Haven't you realized TIME plays Terran as well? There will be at least one Terran in the ro8, don't worry.
I really hope TIME beats Maru, but I fear this won't happen.
On October 25 2019 17:26 NotSoHappy wrote: how's ro8 seeded?
Depends what kind of cheating will Blizzard pull of this time? The last year they did some weird ruling right before the "random" lottery happened. (kinda ish random)
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Hey, wasn't that about saving the terran race? Haven't you realized TIME plays Terran as well? There will be at least one Terran in the ro8, don't worry.
I really hope TIME beats Maru, but I fear this won't happen.
Maru is the only terran with a remote chance at beating the other zergs / protoss in ro8. I thought it was obvious?
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Hey, wasn't that about saving the terran race? Haven't you realized TIME plays Terran as well? There will be at least one Terran in the ro8, don't worry.
I really hope TIME beats Maru, but I fear this won't happen.
Maru is the only terran with a remote chance at beating the other zergs / protoss in ro8. I thought it was obvious?
No, other terrans may have chance to beat protoss, but Maru is the only hope for beating zergs (though I think he has no chance when facing serral/dark)
On October 25 2019 17:18 fgonzo wrote: Wow! Stats played as perfectly as any Protoss can. But Maru just played better. Great game
You mean Maru played well while Stats played terribly?
Stats could have played like a god and he still would've lost 0-3. It's not the players, it's the balance.
Didn't he 3-0 this very same player in similar fashion on the same patch 2 months ago?
no
stats 3-0'd maru before enhanced shockwave came out
after enhanced shockwave maru is like 5-0 against stats (code S now this)
Maru is a 21 years old 4GSL in a row winner, whereas Stats is like 26 last WCS KR seed on the best year for protoss regarding WCS seeds, so that means the patch allowed better terran players to win in TvP. Against a good PvTer Maru still lost 1-4 so protoss definitely has options against terran.
nah. Protoss is done for
Protoss players are getting slaughtered in gsl and wcs by terran players....except neeb who advanced vs time and trap.
we both know that if trap and maru were to face each other again gun to your head you think maru wins. Trap just played like a god to beat maru in code S. I don't think it's reproducible
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
I dont think any coach in their right mind would ever advocate for game-throwing in an elimination group phase, let alone in this particular group. Like imagine that conversation: aight, Maru, we're going up first, so we're allining on the idea of Serral wins the next round. Now, listen, you must NOT under any circumstances meet him at group stage and reveal builds, so what u re gonna do is throw the game against the underdog, beat Stats - who knocked you out several times, and then proceed to meet Time again, since he's 100% gonna lose in the WG, and beat him this time around.
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
wasn't the previous patch even worse
Not really, people went around crying that Protoss were op.
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
I dont think any coach in their right mind would ever advocate for game-throwing in an elimination group phase, let alone in this particular group. Like imagine that conversation: aight, Maru, we're going up first, so we're allining on the idea of Serral wins the next round. Now, listen, you must NOT under any circumstances meet him at group stage and reveal builds, so what u re gonna do is throw the game against the underdog, beat Stats - who knocked you out several times, and then proceed to meet Time again, since he's 100% gonna lose in the WG, and beat him this time around.
Why not? Based on the strength of PvZ you can plan ahead all 3 games. I wouldn;t recommend it because SC2 is IMO still too volatile for this, but it's doable.
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
On October 25 2019 17:10 Xain0n wrote: Stats playing perfect? Maru best player in the world? Ok...
You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
Why is the ''pinnacle of Protoss'' barely at Blizzcon and far behind 3 other Protoss players? I'm not defending Broodlord/infestor but Stats even lost a final to soO this year, he has been very shaky, even when Hurricane and Parting were tearing up GSL.
On October 25 2019 17:13 Morbidius wrote: [quote] You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
I dont think any coach in their right mind would ever advocate for game-throwing in an elimination group phase, let alone in this particular group. Like imagine that conversation: aight, Maru, we're going up first, so we're allining on the idea of Serral wins the next round. Now, listen, you must NOT under any circumstances meet him at group stage and reveal builds, so what u re gonna do is throw the game against the underdog, beat Stats - who knocked you out several times, and then proceed to meet Time again, since he's 100% gonna lose in the WG, and beat him this time around.
Why not? Based on the strength of PvZ you can plan ahead all 3 games. I wouldn;t recommend it because SC2 is IMO still too volatile for this, but it's doable.
Sure, man, sure. JAGW coaches with the strats, Blizzard rigging brackets, man never landing on the moon and many other conspiration theories are all confirmed!
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
I dont think any coach in their right mind would ever advocate for game-throwing in an elimination group phase, let alone in this particular group. Like imagine that conversation: aight, Maru, we're going up first, so we're allining on the idea of Serral wins the next round. Now, listen, you must NOT under any circumstances meet him at group stage and reveal builds, so what u re gonna do is throw the game against the underdog, beat Stats - who knocked you out several times, and then proceed to meet Time again, since he's 100% gonna lose in the WG, and beat him this time around.
i remember the gsl group with him and rogue and it seemed like boys had some strategy for it. just because its risky strategy doesn't mind it can't be used by some coaches and certain players not saying that it did, but we'll never know
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
I dont think any coach in their right mind would ever advocate for game-throwing in an elimination group phase, let alone in this particular group. Like imagine that conversation: aight, Maru, we're going up first, so we're allining on the idea of Serral wins the next round. Now, listen, you must NOT under any circumstances meet him at group stage and reveal builds, so what u re gonna do is throw the game against the underdog, beat Stats - who knocked you out several times, and then proceed to meet Time again, since he's 100% gonna lose in the WG, and beat him this time around.
i remember the gsl group with him and rogue and it seemed like boys had some strategy for it. just because its risky strategy doesn't mind it can't be used by some coaches and certain players not saying that it did, but we'll never know
Exactly what I was writing in the group thread. Glad I;m not the only one
On October 25 2019 17:13 Morbidius wrote: [quote] You're still here? Patchzerg isn't playing right now.
The Patchzerg of patches:
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
Why is the ''pinnacle of Protoss'' barely at Blizzcon and far behind 3 other Protoss players? I'm not defending Broodlord/infestor but Stats even lost a final to soO this year, he has been very shaky, even when Hurricane and Parting were tearing up GSL.
what are you even talking about? parting and hurricane do not even sniff stats jockstrap
Stats IS the pinnacle of protoss. The worst you can call him is the 3rd best, barely behind classic and trap
but classic is not as well rounded, while trap cannot win a trophy. If you think stats is far behind 3 other protoss players you are delusional.
He is also the best PvZer in the world so I dont know why youre knocking him. If stats cant do it, nobody can.
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
On October 25 2019 17:56 Circumstance wrote: TIME tried to open aggressive and greedy at the same time.
Ah, someone is watching the game instead of discussing balance & Serral! Pretty fun game.
I just kept seeing the same thing flashing through my mind as I saw when these two played before: "It's all about upgrades." Upgrade advantage has been such a major determining factor in every game these two have played today, except for the reaper rush game.
On October 25 2019 17:24 deacon.frost wrote: [quote] Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
[quote] Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
So you didnt even watch the entire series and youre confident that stats is the one who is making mistakes all night long?
It's telling that THE MACRO PROTOSS....the gold standard of protoss is resorting to cheese, all in, and cannon rushes on the brink of elimination.
4.0.0 4.0.2 BU 4.1.1 BU 4.1.4 BU 4.2.1 BU 4.3.0 BU 4.7.1 4.8.2 4.8.3 BU
At least.
That "patchzerg" joke is already very old, lame, and stupid, even if sarcasm added.
Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
On October 25 2019 17:24 Poopi wrote: Hopefully Maru beats TIME, should be doable. I really really hope ro8 will be watchable, save us Maru!!
Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
Why is the ''pinnacle of Protoss'' barely at Blizzcon and far behind 3 other Protoss players? I'm not defending Broodlord/infestor but Stats even lost a final to soO this year, he has been very shaky, even when Hurricane and Parting were tearing up GSL.
what are you even talking about? parting and hurricane do not even sniff stats jockstrap
Stats IS the pinnacle of protoss. The worst you can call him is the 3rd best, barely behind classic and trap
but classic is not as well rounded, while trap cannot win a trophy. If you think stats is far behind 3 other protoss players you are delusional.
He is also the best PvZer in the world so I dont know why youre knocking him. If stats cant do it, nobody can.
He is the best ''standard'' PvZer in the world but as i said, he has looked shaky this year. Demolishing his group at IEM only to lose to an out of shape soO in the grand finals, demolishing Serral at HSC and then playing like he was drunk the following day. He played at Serral's level everytime they faced so far, but this time he just didn't.
On October 25 2019 17:56 Circumstance wrote: TIME tried to open aggressive and greedy at the same time.
Ah, someone is watching the game instead of discussing balance & Serral! Pretty fun game.
I just kept seeing the same thing flashing through my mind as I saw when these two played before: "It's all about upgrades." Upgrade advantage has been such a major determining factor in every game these two have played today, except for the reaper rush game.
Sure, especially in TvT with marines which have extreme attack speed with Stim.
On October 25 2019 17:56 Circumstance wrote: TIME tried to open aggressive and greedy at the same time.
Ah, someone is watching the game instead of discussing balance & Serral! Pretty fun game.
Someone is not at work where the Twitch is pretty risky to watch and Blizzard can't put the livestream on YouTube because.
What about watching from the TL.net client? does that count as twitch?
The connection is to Twitch anyway. Longterm live connection to Twitch isn't good no matter what you watch there as a simple google search says "Twitch is the world's leading live streaming platform for gamers and the things we love. Watch and chat now with millions of other fans from around the world." And the word gamers is the key word no matter what you watch there :D It's like opening Pornhub, sure, there are non-porn videos there, but they're so small minority
On October 25 2019 17:56 Circumstance wrote: TIME tried to open aggressive and greedy at the same time.
Ah, someone is watching the game instead of discussing balance & Serral! Pretty fun game.
Someone is not at work where the Twitch is pretty risky to watch and Blizzard can't put the livestream on YouTube because.
What about watching from the TL.net client? does that count as twitch?
The connection is to Twitch anyway. Longterm live connection to Twitch isn't good no matter what you watch there as a simple google search says "Twitch is the world's leading live streaming platform for gamers and the things we love. Watch and chat now with millions of other fans from around the world." And the word gamers is the key word no matter what you watch there :D It's like opening Pornhub, sure, there are non-porn videos there, but they're so small minority
Twitch is becoming more like pornhub everyday. IRL and ''just chatting'' streams are taking over.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
So you didnt even watch the entire series and youre confident that stats is the one who is making mistakes all night long?
It's telling that THE MACRO PROTOSS....the gold standard of protoss is resorting to cheese, all in, and cannon rushes on the brink of elimination.
welcome to starcraft in 2019 where if you play macro every game like eg inno did you can be blind countered.
On October 25 2019 17:31 Morbidius wrote: [quote] Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
So you didnt even watch the entire series and youre confident that stats is the one who is making mistakes all night long?
It's telling that THE MACRO PROTOSS....the gold standard of protoss is resorting to cheese, all in, and cannon rushes on the brink of elimination.
welcome to starcraft in 2019 where if you play macro every game like eg inno did you can be blind countered.
nonsense, Innovation wasn't in Evil Geniuses Didn't you mean EG rage, uh, I meant EG IdrA?
On October 25 2019 18:08 JoeCool wrote: Looks like we might get the long awaited MvS after all...
On October 25 2019 17:24 deacon.frost wrote: [quote] Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
[quote] Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
Why is the ''pinnacle of Protoss'' barely at Blizzcon and far behind 3 other Protoss players? I'm not defending Broodlord/infestor but Stats even lost a final to soO this year, he has been very shaky, even when Hurricane and Parting were tearing up GSL.
what are you even talking about? parting and hurricane do not even sniff stats jockstrap
Stats IS the pinnacle of protoss. The worst you can call him is the 3rd best, barely behind classic and trap
but classic is not as well rounded, while trap cannot win a trophy. If you think stats is far behind 3 other protoss players you are delusional.
He is also the best PvZer in the world so I dont know why youre knocking him. If stats cant do it, nobody can.
He is the best ''standard'' PvZer in the world but as i said, he has looked shaky this year. Demolishing his group at IEM only to lose to an out of shape soO in the grand finals, demolishing Serral at HSC and then playing like he was drunk the following day. He played at Serral's level everytime they faced so far, but this time he just didn't.
That would be the same soO who went through Serral, Zest and herO to get to the final? Also at HSC he literally said he was coming over to drink, so it's almost certain he had a hangover.
On October 25 2019 17:31 Morbidius wrote: [quote] Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
So you didnt even watch the entire series and youre confident that stats is the one who is making mistakes all night long?
It's telling that THE MACRO PROTOSS....the gold standard of protoss is resorting to cheese, all in, and cannon rushes on the brink of elimination.
welcome to starcraft in 2019 where if you play macro every game like eg inno did you can be blind countered.
Serral plays macro everygame just like Inno and he's doing fine.
On October 25 2019 17:24 deacon.frost wrote: [quote] Did he won IEM before the patch? Why is his winter/spring so weak compared to the later stage after some patching of the Blizzcon patch then?
[quote] Maru v Rogue incoming, shitty teamkill result expected.
Are you for real? Serral wasn't in his best shape in early 2019, and wasn't strong enough to win tournaments against top koreans in early 2018.
Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
Why is the ''pinnacle of Protoss'' barely at Blizzcon and far behind 3 other Protoss players? I'm not defending Broodlord/infestor but Stats even lost a final to soO this year, he has been very shaky, even when Hurricane and Parting were tearing up GSL.
what are you even talking about? parting and hurricane do not even sniff stats jockstrap
Stats IS the pinnacle of protoss. The worst you can call him is the 3rd best, barely behind classic and trap
but classic is not as well rounded, while trap cannot win a trophy. If you think stats is far behind 3 other protoss players you are delusional.
He is also the best PvZer in the world so I dont know why youre knocking him. If stats cant do it, nobody can.
He is the best ''standard'' PvZer in the world but as i said, he has looked shaky this year. Demolishing his group at IEM only to lose to an out of shape soO in the grand finals, demolishing Serral at HSC and then playing like he was drunk the following day. He played at Serral's level everytime they faced so far, but this time he just didn't.
He is the best PvZer in the world bar none
soO did not only beat stats. soO crushed protoss legends en route to winning the IEM so you cant chalk that up to stats being shaky. in fact stats is the one who put up the best fight.
HSC is a meme tournament and st ats probably was drunk the next day.
stats beat serral and solar at asus tournament
you can criticize him all you want but the fact of the matter is that he is by far the best pvzer in the world and he is the only protoss player who can win a trophy over the last 2 years, aside from classic
if stats, the protoss standard, is getting dumpstered then there is a problem with the race
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
I guess it is 4-1 unless Maru proceeds with proxy rax build.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
So you didnt even watch the entire series and youre confident that stats is the one who is making mistakes all night long?
It's telling that THE MACRO PROTOSS....the gold standard of protoss is resorting to cheese, all in, and cannon rushes on the brink of elimination.
welcome to starcraft in 2019 where if you play macro every game like eg inno did you can be blind countered.
Serral plays macro everygame just like Inno and he's doing fine.
Serral plays zerg of course he can do the same thing every game and win
On October 25 2019 17:31 Morbidius wrote: [quote] Jeez i wonder why his shape was bad, i could not possibly imagine what clicked for Serral to become strong again just in time for Blizzcon.
You are severely insulting your own intelligence here. BAD shape? He still collected a ro8 at IEM(won by a Zerg, Serral's results must be for sure tied to how strong his race is, right?) and a final at WESG. Serral even lost WCS tournaments twice against Reynor, a Zerg, in the finals...
Serral was playing subpar for his own standards, but he still collected incredibly good results; compare him with Rogue: when he was out of shape earlier this year he looked C tier and was repeatedly eliminated in the first stage of the tournaments he entered.
Serral won GSL vs the World in 2019 in the patch before the current one. Stop being so deluded, please, and start recognizing Serral is top tier regardless of balance.
He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
So you didnt even watch the entire series and youre confident that stats is the one who is making mistakes all night long?
It's telling that THE MACRO PROTOSS....the gold standard of protoss is resorting to cheese, all in, and cannon rushes on the brink of elimination.
welcome to starcraft in 2019 where if you play macro every game like eg inno did you can be blind countered.
except stats is cheesing and going for timings as well, and still losing
On October 25 2019 17:34 swarminfestor wrote: I think Maru purposely evade Serral in the bracket, probably after he got the advice from the coach or Rogue.
if he smokes time 3:0 then yes, be it close then no
I guess it is 4-1 unless Maru proceeds with proxy rax build.
seems like it, pretty funny tbh must have something special prepared for serral later in the tournament
On October 25 2019 17:45 Poopi wrote: [quote] He is but it wouldn't have been a 6-0 in a better balanced game.
you could make a case with g1 of vs stats, but g2,g3 its on stats. same with time. serral played better, end of story. grow up
when stats is swept by rogue....."it's on stats" when stats is swept by maru...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by dark...."it's on stats" when stats is swept by serral..."it's on stats"
at what point do you admit when the pinnacle of Protoss is regularly decimated that it's not "on stats" ?
did we watch same games? it wasnt like serral was playing sh nydus every game. stats made mistakes, end of story. also im not saying pvz is fine, its not, but in these particular games, its on stats.
stats had better engagements
and youre ignoring all the other series i listed
while losing probes here and there making scouting mistakes making other mistakes its not 0:1 case so stop arguing that it is
ignored because not really patient enough to argue about other series, i watched last game of maru vs stats and stats make a gamble that didn't pay off plus mistakes and he lost.
So you didnt even watch the entire series and youre confident that stats is the one who is making mistakes all night long?
It's telling that THE MACRO PROTOSS....the gold standard of protoss is resorting to cheese, all in, and cannon rushes on the brink of elimination.
welcome to starcraft in 2019 where if you play macro every game like eg inno did you can be blind countered.
Serral plays macro everygame just like Inno and he's doing fine.
Serral plays zerg of course he can do the same thing every game and win
Such nonsense!
I also want to remind you guys that the ro8 will be played at Anaheim, not in Korea. All the comparison with GSL group stages and playoffs should end here.
So Maru loses a close 3-2 series to TIME, which was a huge upset, avoiding the winners match against Serral, just to go on and smash Stats into obliterating TIME in the decider match.
On October 25 2019 18:31 Akio wrote: So Maru loses a close 3-2 series to TIME, which was a huge upset, avoiding the winners match against Serral, just to go on and smash Stats into obliterating TIME in the decider match.
What do we make of this?
that he needed some time to warm up, as he does a lot of the time, and that he was able to adapt to Time's playstyle
On October 25 2019 18:31 Akio wrote: So Maru loses a close 3-2 series to TIME, which was a huge upset, avoiding the winners match against Serral, just to go on and smash Stats into obliterating TIME in the decider match.
On October 25 2019 18:31 Akio wrote: So Maru loses a close 3-2 series to TIME, which was a huge upset, avoiding the winners match against Serral, just to go on and smash Stats into obliterating TIME in the decider match.
It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
Don't you wanna see Big Gabe triumph for the love of the mistreated Terran race?
Tomorrow Reynor will hopefully show us that he has become a true champion.
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
in the middle of the night? so you're not in France right now?
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
in the middle of the night? so you're not in France right now?
Yes I am, and at like 7am or even earlier Maru lost to TIME.
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
in the middle of the night? so you're not in France right now?
Yes I am, and at like 7am or even earlier Maru lost to TIME.
7AM is only middle of the night by gamer standards
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
in the middle of the night? so you're not in France right now?
Yes I am, and at like 7am or even earlier Maru lost to TIME.
7AM is only middle of the night by gamer standards
Well if I slept before and I sleep after and it's still dark outside, I call that middle of the night
Let's just take a moment, and appreciate the fact, that after 2 days of constant balance whining and player bashing, we have the most obvious, paper-form results, that anyone could have expected, but we eve had some unexpected and surprising performances on the way here>
Group A - Dark, sOo Group B - Serral, Maru
Not sure on what patch or map-pool would this be surprising or considered an upset.
On October 25 2019 19:39 Geo.Rion wrote: Let's just take a moment, and appreciate the fact, that after 2 days of constant balance whining and player bashing, we have the most obvious, paper-form results, that anyone could have expected, but we eve had some unexpected and surprising performances on the way here>
Group A - Dark, sOo Group B - Serral, Maru
Not sure on what patch or map-pool would this be surprising or considered an upset.
Considering the soO's recent results he wasn't that much of a favorite. Nobody would be surprised him not advancing. Jsut saying he wasn't the clear favorite like Dark.
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
in the middle of the night? so you're not in France right now?
Yes I am, and at like 7am or even earlier Maru lost to TIME.
"middle of the night". enjoy that lifestyle while it lasts, guessing you're in Uni or smth? i was preparing for my first business call of the day when Maru lost to Time.
On October 25 2019 19:39 Geo.Rion wrote: Let's just take a moment, and appreciate the fact, that after 2 days of constant balance whining and player bashing, we have the most obvious, paper-form results, that anyone could have expected, but we eve had some unexpected and surprising performances on the way here>
Group A - Dark, sOo Group B - Serral, Maru
Not sure on what patch or map-pool would this be surprising or considered an upset.
while i agree with you on that, one could also point out that the two Zergs in Group A both advanced and the only Zerg in Group B advanced in first place. the only Zerg loss so far this tournament was a ZvZ. again, i do agree with you these results don't automatically point towards any imbalance, but it's not exactly a great sample to say Zerg isn't doing well either.
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
in the middle of the night? so you're not in France right now?
Yes I am, and at like 7am or even earlier Maru lost to TIME.
"middle of the night". enjoy that lifestyle while it lasts, guessing you're in Uni or smth? i was preparing for my first business call of the day when Maru lost to Time.
Well my alarm clock was set-up for 7:50am which is respectable I'd say. You are free to choose your own chains but don't expect others to follow the same path.
On October 25 2019 20:05 TentativePanda wrote: For those who watched, did Maru throw vs TIME so he didn’t have to play against Serral. Semi serious question lmao
From what I read and what I've seen on replay (glimpled quickly through it), it seems like Maru played a bit better / warmed-up in the second encounter AND was better prepared for TIME aggressive playstyle. So I don't think he threw at all in the first bo5, but I think he'd have won if it was direct elimination in his first encounter vs TIME.
On October 25 2019 19:39 Geo.Rion wrote: Let's just take a moment, and appreciate the fact, that after 2 days of constant balance whining and player bashing, we have the most obvious, paper-form results, that anyone could have expected, but we eve had some unexpected and surprising performances on the way here>
Group A - Dark, sOo Group B - Serral, Maru
Not sure on what patch or map-pool would this be surprising or considered an upset.
Considering the soO's recent results he wasn't that much of a favorite. Nobody would be surprised him not advancing. Jsut saying he wasn't the clear favorite like Dark.
To be sure, soo wasnt a lock going in, but between the 3 of them he still was the slight favorite, after all he's the only one who won anything this year. Maybe if you replay that group 10 times, he gets out only 4-5 times, but still more often than the two WCS players
On October 25 2019 18:45 Poopi wrote: It's surrealist how we won't ever see the match we are waiting for lol. Funny waking up in the middle of the night and seeing that Maru lost to TIME though. Gratz Maru, all hopes are on you now for terrans. Tomorrow the protoss hope will arise!
in the middle of the night? so you're not in France right now?
Yes I am, and at like 7am or even earlier Maru lost to TIME.
"middle of the night". enjoy that lifestyle while it lasts, guessing you're in Uni or smth? i was preparing for my first business call of the day when Maru lost to Time.
Well my alarm clock was set-up for 7:50am which is respectable I'd say. You are free to choose your own chains but don't expect others to follow the same path.
haha that's quite the dramatic line there :D i meant it when i said enjoy that lifestyle. if you find a way to enjoy it for your whole life, congrats. at my job i don't even have to show up at a certain time, i just need to get my work done in time for deadlines and i'm good. but i frequently have calls with customers rather early in the morning so yeah, obviously gotta be awake for those.
Well it wasn’t that easy for Maru, losing the first bo5. Then against Stats it was two close games he could have lost, only the Thunderbird game was a stomp against Stats. Same for TIME, two close games then a stomp ; the score doesn’t tell the whole story.
On October 25 2019 21:03 IshinShishi wrote: Maru didnt seem upset at all after the first loss to TIME, I wouldnt say he threw, but he probably didnt try hard either
Why would he not try? Maru is the only one whose losses are because of "not trying". I find this absurd.
There's no way Maru was "not trying" against Time in the first match, getting second in this group makes Blizzcon much harder for him as now it's very likely he gets one of Dark or Rogue/Trap as his RO8 opponent. Also groups were released far enough in advance for the round of 16 to be considered a "preparation" format, even if classic delayed finalized groups for a few weeks.
If I had to guess, Maru focused most of his prep on Stats and Serral (which is perfectly understandable), and Time brought some really good builds to bear and played better than expected, but by the time they got to the deciders match Time didn't have any hidden builds left and Maru adapted to his playstyle.
On October 25 2019 23:16 dysenterymd wrote: There's no way Maru was "not trying" against Time in the first match, getting second in this group makes Blizzcon much harder for him as now it's very likely he gets one of Dark or Rogue/Trap as his RO8 opponent. Also groups were released far enough in advance for the round of 16 to be considered a "preparation" format, even if classic delayed finalized groups for a few weeks.
If I had to guess, Maru focused most of his prep on Stats and Serral (which is perfectly understandable), and Time brought some really good builds to bear and played better than expected, but by the time they got to the deciders match Time didn't have any hidden builds left and Maru adapted to his playstyle.
Yes it was very obvious that Maru wanted to advance from first place and was very well prepared for that. Shame we could not see his TvZ, I am sure he practiced his heart out to be prepared for the winners match against both Stats and Serral. He just underestimated Time. On the other hand it was apparent from Times plays today and even from the interview that his only goal today was to beat Maru, and he managed to surprise him and snipe him with quality prepared builds (Inno you bastard! )
Intresting thing is, Maru is regarded here as a very heavy prep. reliant player. Well he adjusted to Times play perfectly in just an hour or 2, and showed that he is a far superior player in the rematch.
Bottom line anyone who thinks Maru wanted to dodge Serral on purpose is out of his mind. Maru is the best TvZ player of all time. Even with this balance, he would be more than a match. Even Serral mentioned numerous times that he would rather not play Maru
Serious question though, if Maru and Serral can only play each other in the finals, who can stop Maru? I'd say Dark would be the worst draw for Maru, Rogue should be easier but it's his teammate so quite risky. Trap will probably not qualify as first seed / reach ro4. Overall Maru has a decent shot at going further should he dodge Dark and pray for him to be eliminated in a ZvZ.
On October 25 2019 23:49 Poopi wrote: Serious question though, if Maru and Serral can only play each other in the finals, who can stop Maru? I'd say Dark would be the worst draw for Maru, Rogue should be easier but it's his teammate so quite risky. Trap will probably not qualify as first seed / reach ro4. Overall Maru has a decent shot at going further should he dodge Dark and pray for him to be eliminated in a ZvZ.
I'd say Dark-Rogue-Trap-Reynor and maybe Classic all have a decent shot
On October 25 2019 23:49 Poopi wrote: Serious question though, if Maru and Serral can only play each other in the finals, who can stop Maru? I'd say Dark would be the worst draw for Maru, Rogue should be easier but it's his teammate so quite risky. Trap will probably not qualify as first seed / reach ro4. Overall Maru has a decent shot at going further should he dodge Dark and pray for him to be eliminated in a ZvZ.
I'd say Dark-Rogue-Trap-Reynor and maybe Classic all have a decent shot
Reynor :D Good one. Classic also a big no, Maru completely roflstomped him in his PvT peak. He is struggling against the likes of Heromarine right now. Dark and Rogue. Trap seems to be in a slump so I don't think so...
On October 25 2019 23:49 Poopi wrote: Serious question though, if Maru and Serral can only play each other in the finals, who can stop Maru? I'd say Dark would be the worst draw for Maru, Rogue should be easier but it's his teammate so quite risky. Trap will probably not qualify as first seed / reach ro4. Overall Maru has a decent shot at going further should he dodge Dark and pray for him to be eliminated in a ZvZ.
I'd say Dark-Rogue-Trap-Reynor and maybe Classic all have a decent shot
Reynor :D Good one. Classic also a big no, Maru completely roflstomped him in his PvT peak. He is struggling against the likes of Heromarine right now. Dark and Rogue. Trap seems to be in a slump so I don't think so...
Well Maru is 2-2 in tvz since the last patch so I'd say any very good zerg has a shot and Reynor has a good tvz
You guys are underestimating the fact BlizzCon is a weekender(actually, a tournament played in a single day this year) and won't be played in Asia: Maru never won a similar tournament in his whole career, under these conditions I could easily see herO snipe him out in the ro8.
If we ignore this consideration, the most dangerous opponents for Maru are Dark, Trap(if he qualifies and I'm not sure of that) and Rogue.
On October 26 2019 00:26 Xain0n wrote: You guys are underestimating the fact BlizzCon is a weekender(actually, a tournament played in a single day this year) and won't be played in Asia: Maru never won a similar tournament in his whole career, under these conditions I could easily see herO snipe him out in the ro8.
If we ignore this consideration, the most dangerous opponents for Maru are Dark, Trap(if he qualifies and I'm not sure of that) and Rogue.
herO is a good shout. For no particular logical reason it just feels absolute typical herO to knock out Maru here if he gets out.
It’s quite a good tournament for Maru IMO, his vP can be stellar at times but he seems to falter when he has to run a potential gauntlet of Protoss players, all with their particular styles and quirks.
Given the state of PvZ and the quality of the Zergs at the tournament I feel it’s more likely that the Protoss contingent will be squeezed out before they become much of a factor, although hopefully not.
On October 25 2019 23:49 Poopi wrote: Serious question though, if Maru and Serral can only play each other in the finals, who can stop Maru? I'd say Dark would be the worst draw for Maru, Rogue should be easier but it's his teammate so quite risky. Trap will probably not qualify as first seed / reach ro4. Overall Maru has a decent shot at going further should he dodge Dark and pray for him to be eliminated in a ZvZ.
I'd say Dark-Rogue-Trap-Reynor and maybe Classic all have a decent shot
Reynor :D Good one. Classic also a big no, Maru completely roflstomped him in his PvT peak. He is struggling against the likes of Heromarine right now. Dark and Rogue. Trap seems to be in a slump so I don't think so...
That series was closer than it appeared, fine margins at that level. Artosis and NoRegret did a good job breaking it down on In Depth and Classic was pretty genuinely unlucky at some key moments of that series.
Maru was still better but my perception shifted a bit from it being a stomp to Classic being outplayed, but not by a huge amount.
It’s Classic, he’s been performing against expectations for a good chunk of the year, I wouldn’t have him favoured against Maru but I’d still give him a shot. Especially given Maru hasn’t really brought his best form to tournaments like this in the past.
Reynor is eventually going to bring his best form against a top Korean when it matters. Whispers are that his vP is pretty terrifying at the minute, but from what I’ve seen from him in the past and when they played against each other I’m not sure Maru would be a scalp he could take now, especially given Maru’s vZ chops.
On October 26 2019 00:26 Xain0n wrote: You guys are underestimating the fact BlizzCon is a weekender(actually, a tournament played in a single day this year) and won't be played in Asia: Maru never won a similar tournament in his whole career, under these conditions I could easily see herO snipe him out in the ro8.
Well Maru never played that many tournaments outside of Asia to begin with. In his entire career he's left asia for two WCS (back in 2013), then three blizzcons and three katowices.
That's not a lot for a 9 year SC2 career, compared to the 50+ premier events he's attended in korea.
Not saying he doesn't play worse in weekenders, he does, but it's not like he's done a lot of them
On October 26 2019 00:26 Xain0n wrote: You guys are underestimating the fact BlizzCon is a weekender(actually, a tournament played in a single day this year) and won't be played in Asia: Maru never won a similar tournament in his whole career, under these conditions I could easily see herO snipe him out in the ro8.
Well Maru never played that many tournaments outside of Asia to begin with. In his entire career he's left asia for two WCS (back in 2013), then three blizzcons and three katowices.
That's not a lot for a 9 year SC2 career, compared to the 50+ premier events he's attended in korea.
Not saying he doesn't play worse in weekenders, he does, but it's not like he's done a lot of them
Come on, not the weekender argument again. This was the group stage, the Blizzcon main event is 1/4 finals, semifinals, finals, same as WESG for example, which he did win once. Maru's gonna know his first opponent way before the event begins, and should he win that, his next 2 opponents are gonna be Dark and Serral. If he doesnt win it's not because it's a weekender, or he couldnt prepare for specific opponents.
On October 25 2019 23:49 Poopi wrote: Serious question though, if Maru and Serral can only play each other in the finals, who can stop Maru? I'd say Dark would be the worst draw for Maru, Rogue should be easier but it's his teammate so quite risky. Trap will probably not qualify as first seed / reach ro4. Overall Maru has a decent shot at going further should he dodge Dark and pray for him to be eliminated in a ZvZ.
I'd say Dark-Rogue-Trap-Reynor and maybe Classic all have a decent shot
Reynor :D Good one. Classic also a big no, Maru completely roflstomped him in his PvT peak. He is struggling against the likes of Heromarine right now. Dark and Rogue. Trap seems to be in a slump so I don't think so...
Reynor is eventually going to bring his best form against a top Korean when it matters. Whispers are that his vP is pretty terrifying at the minute, but from what I’ve seen from him in the past and when they played against each other I’m not sure Maru would be a scalp he could take now, especially given Maru’s vZ chops.
Reynor just does not hype me at all... Havent achieved anything meaningful aside from sniping Serral a couple of times. Which seems to excite Serral and WCS fanboys, but the reality is that he always got stomped by the first good korean he came across in a serious tournament environment.
Specifically Maru made him look like a total scrub and it wasnt that long ago they played together. So I see absolutely no grounds to claim Reynor would have a shot here, but maybe I will be surprised. Wouldnt be the first time anyway
On October 25 2019 23:49 Poopi wrote: Serious question though, if Maru and Serral can only play each other in the finals, who can stop Maru? I'd say Dark would be the worst draw for Maru, Rogue should be easier but it's his teammate so quite risky. Trap will probably not qualify as first seed / reach ro4. Overall Maru has a decent shot at going further should he dodge Dark and pray for him to be eliminated in a ZvZ.
I'd say Dark-Rogue-Trap-Reynor and maybe Classic all have a decent shot
Reynor :D Good one. Classic also a big no, Maru completely roflstomped him in his PvT peak. He is struggling against the likes of Heromarine right now. Dark and Rogue. Trap seems to be in a slump so I don't think so...
Reynor is eventually going to bring his best form against a top Korean when it matters. Whispers are that his vP is pretty terrifying at the minute, but from what I’ve seen from him in the past and when they played against each other I’m not sure Maru would be a scalp he could take now, especially given Maru’s vZ chops.
Reynor just does not hype me at all... Havent achieved anything meaningful aside from sniping Serral a couple of times. Which seems to excite Serral and WCS fanboys, but the reality is that he always got stomped by the first good korean he came across in a serious tournament environment.
Specifically Maru made him look like a total scrub and it wasnt that long ago they played together. So I see absolutely no grounds to claim Reynor would have a shot here, but maybe I will be surprised. Wouldnt be the first time anyway
Beating Serral twice in meaningful matches is pretty decent anyway.
He’s clearly a hell of a talent but hasn’t really brought it to bear against Koreans this year, weird as his first Code S run was impressive and arguably ahead of schedule.
This result I think made me believe that TIME/Oliveira confidently can beat Maru in the final BO7 just like what we observed yesterday. Once you beat Maru in BO3 or BO5 series before, the path seems clearer and smooth as you gained confidence to beat someone who was the biggest favorite of tournament. Although Maru revenged him later 3-0 in the same day...