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GSL Code S Season 3
2019 Global StarCraft II League Season 3/Code SStreams & Casters
Map Pool
Grand Finals
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Results
CSS: FO-nTTaX
Begrudgingly fulfilling obligations: Wax
Banner: GSL
[GSL 2019] Code S Season 3 - Grand Finals
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
CSS: FO-nTTaX Begrudgingly fulfilling obligations: Wax Banner: GSL | ||
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
Poll: Who will win? (Head) Rogue (35) Trap (10) 45 total votes Your vote: Who will win? (Head) Poll: Who do you WANT to win? (Heart) Rogue (24) Trap (23) 47 total votes Your vote: Who do you WANT to win? (Heart) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25567 Posts
Doubt I’ll wake up for it live planning to watch as-live though. Please don’t disappoint me, or at least if Trap loses I hope it’s a series for the ages. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7327 Posts
At least my not watching will give Trap a chance to win! PLEASE WIN TRAP | ||
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
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XDEKSDEEXD
622 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13977 Posts
On September 28 2019 12:50 Shellshock wrote: need rogue to win so i can win the liquibet season I really hope he does...because if he doesn't I lost this season because of the semi finals alone.... | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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Alejandrisha
United States6565 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:24 AzAlexZ wrote: lol btw the first LOTV Blizzcon champ is Byun lol Yeah idk what that was lol | ||
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:25 Waxangel wrote: oh no they said the words "Serral" now this thread is cursed BUT IS HE REALLY THE BEST?? | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18035 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
I dont know. It is still debatable. | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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fgonzo
108 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Acrofales
Spain18035 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:30 fgonzo wrote: Whoever wins this match will 100% win Blizzcon. I don't think anyone can win against the person who wins this one.  | ||
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dankobanana
Croatia238 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
(also the only one but hey) | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:31 dankobanana wrote: how is it possible to cast games for so long and still say Rogue's biggest strength is his late game. He is basically Zers s0s :D For Artosis it's still 2017. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:31 Waxangel wrote: I feel bad about how GSL is just actively excising MLG Anaheim from history :[ They showed it in Trap's achievement list! | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:37 Waxangel wrote: Was this a gamble by Trap hoping there wouldn't be OL speed, or was it some next-level late scout timing by Rogue? It waa a fake immortal all-in, he was most likely expecting Rogue to pump roaches and not get OL speed | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4014 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4014 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:38 Elentos wrote: It's still stupid you can have multiple worms active from 1 network. yes how can't they see it? Nydus mechanics is really wrong. And im a zerg player. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:41 Noonius wrote: I only want Rogue to win because LB's. Other than that, I couldn't care less who wins at least it's not Maru | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
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xongnox
540 Posts
It's so | ||
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-Strider-
Mexico1605 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:40 Ej_ wrote: Now give me the 4p map 12pool for the quick 2-0 into a 30min series. mmh reading my mind. that'd be sooo dirty, i like it | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
Throwback to IEM Katowice | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4014 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:47 Ej_ wrote: I think we are in contestion for the worst GSL final, including the ones NesTea won I told you before it started, but you didn't believe me. | ||
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:42 Kitai wrote: At least that was a fun/unique game. Not too often you see a robo-first double-stargate countered by nydus Ok it's getting less fun lol | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
User was warned for this post. | ||
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
and now a quick 20 minute break, guys | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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-Strider-
Mexico1605 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:48 HolydaKing wrote: LOL these games are such a disaster for Trap. He could have done so much more with his 2 dts if he knew he had no detection for like 30 seconds. He couldn't have done anything, the overseer was morphing and zerg units can move. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Motlu
Australia884 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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xongnox
540 Posts
Autumn 2019 : Kill them before Nydus ? So he should do some photon rush+proxy i guess, only way tt | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:49 Ej_ wrote: He couldn't have done anything, the overseer was morphing and zerg units can move. He could have sniped the 3rd at least, or forced a ton of transfuses (which wouldn't have helped tho if he the game went on like it did). The overseer took a while. | ||
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Motlu
Australia884 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:50 HolydaKing wrote: He could have sniped the 3rd at least, or forced a ton of transfuses (which wouldn't have helped tho if he the game went on like it did). The overseer took a while. He did attack the hatchery, there's not nearly enough time to get anything done. Did we watch the same game? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:50 xongnox wrote: Spring & Summer 2019 : kill'them before BL+infestors ! Autumn 2019 : Kill them before Nydus ? So he should do some photon rush+proxy i guess, only way tt or probe rush, finally Naniwa can make a come back | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:51 Ej_ wrote: He did attack the hatchery, there's not nearly enough time to get anything done. Did we watch the same game? Yes, with a single DT, the other went scout around. And even that one didn't attack it right away. Anyway, Trap couldn't know. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:52 HolydaKing wrote: Yes, with a single DT, the other went scout around. And even that one didn't attack it right away. Anyway, Trap couldn't know. I think you vastly underestimate the amount of time it takes for DT to kill a hatchery | ||
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Noa Greenini
265 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:51 Ej_ wrote: He did attack the hatchery, there's not nearly enough time to get anything done. Did we watch the same game? He wasted one of them nothing. You're watching the same game but you need to pay attention ;-) | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:50 HolydaKing wrote: He could have sniped the 3rd at least, or forced a ton of transfuses (which wouldn't have helped tho if he the game went on like it did). The overseer took a while. lol what, the only thing he could've done would've been to force more transfuses, which as you said, wouldn't have helped that game. | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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rednusa
651 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:52 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'm somehow pretty skeptical of those Nydus being in the slightest "reactionary". It's reactionary to Protoss not massing immortals and batteries on 2 bases. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:52 HolydaKing wrote: Yes, with a single DT, the other went scout around. And even that one didn't attack it right away. Anyway, Trap couldn't know. dude, Rogue got the scout off with the early ling runby and had his lair going up at the perfect time for no damage, give it a rest | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:55 Ej_ wrote: It's reactionary to Protoss not massing immortals and batteries on 2 bases. It's reactionary to Protoss not massing immortals and batteries on 1 base. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:56 blooblooblahblah wrote: It's reactionary to Protoss not massing immortals and batteries on 1 base. Printf was right! | ||
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dankobanana
Croatia238 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:55 Ej_ wrote: It's reactionary to Protoss not massing immortals and batteries on 2 bases. Let's just say I'm not going to doubt Hurricane's wisdom of opening void ray every game against Rogue. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
Also for a 3 base nydus all-in. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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darklycid
3512 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:58 Ej_ wrote: King's Cove is a nice map for 40min BL/inf game. Also for a 3 base nydus all-in. Which map isn't good for a nydus | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:58 Ej_ wrote: King's Cove is a nice map for 40min BL/inf game. Also for a 3 base nydus all-in. 40 min BL/inf with no chance for Trap whatsoever all game long into a 12 pool or a botched cannon rush would be the perfect scenario for a terrible finals. And it's not even unlikely. | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On September 28 2019 17:53 Kitai wrote: If we're being real, Trap played like garbage in the 2nd game. His front entrance was constantly leaking zerglings and he lost 400 gas worth of sentries from a simple ling poke before anything complicated happened. Pretty sure that's not a "nerf zerg" moment. Yeah. You're probably supposed to lose to an early allin after a mistake like that. He also lost the immortal there shortly after (or was about to as he tapped out), again, outside the wall, to lings. Nydus probably needs some adjustments, but there was a lot that went wrong for Trap before the first one popped. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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rotta
5589 Posts
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SC-Shield
Bulgaria829 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:05 Penev wrote: Does this mean it's the last GSL? not the last GSL. Only the last GSL where WCS points are awarded, since there's no need for them next year. No global finals, you see | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:07 Waxangel wrote: Why's Rogue playing these Lair timings like 5 seconds too loose? There some build trickery here from Trap? Or what? Like bloobloo said, this is the fastest possible 2 base DT drop | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:07 Waxangel wrote: Why's Rogue playing these Lair timings like 5 seconds too loose? There some build trickery here from Trap? Or what? Yes, see my post above, this isn't the normal DT drop build, it's super fast and greedy and has 1 less gate so you're not actually ever planning to morph 2 archons (at least not right away). You also have to go gas first and not scout to pull it off. | ||
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darklycid
3512 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:08 blooblooblahblah wrote: Yes, see my post above, this isn't the normal DT drop build, it's super fast and greedy and has 1 less gate so you're not actually ever planning to morph 2 archons (at least not right away). You also have to go gas first and not scout to pull it off. Well even the most common DT opening in Korea is with 3 gate rather than 4. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:08 Ej_ wrote: Yo what's up with this creep high way? He's gonna crash 40 banelings into Trap and win easily | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:09 Ej_ wrote: Also I love how Trap kills 8 drones for free and now 4 minutes later, he's 40 supply down Blizzard is too afraid of losing Serral if they nerf zerg | ||
Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:09 Ej_ wrote: Also I love how Trap kills 8 drones for free and now 4 minutes later, he's 40 supply down maybe you've learned something about the break-even point for a risky build | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:10 Ziggy wrote: oversleeping when theres a gsl final going on ftw You didn't miss anything worthwhile | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:09 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Well even the most common DT opening in Korea is with 3 gate rather than 4. These days yeah, I think it's better but there's still leeway in how greedy you want to push the timing. | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:10 Durnuu wrote: Blizzard is too afraid of losing Serral if they nerf zerg Sure, like Serral wasn't winning when no other Zerg was(despite the race not being weak). Zerg were overall nerfed last patch, if that wouldn't have been enough they'll be nerfed again... | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:15 Xain0n wrote: Sure, like Serral wasn't winning when no other Zerg was(despite the race not being weak). Zerg were overall nerfed last patch, if that wouldn't have been enough they'll be nerfed again... Welcome to the thread. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:15 Xain0n wrote: Sure, like Serral wasn't winning when no other Zerg was(despite the race not being weak). Zerg were overall nerfed last patch, if that wouldn't have been enough they'll be nerfed again... oh come on that was such an obvious bait | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
I already commented fifty posts ago, you must have missed that. Keep whining about 2012, please. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:19 Xain0n wrote: I already commented fifty posts ago, you must have missed that. Keep whining about 2012, please. Whining? I loved watching Stephano beat Koreans. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:20 sashkata wrote: This could have been Maru vs Rogue. Even Dark vs Trap was more likely than that. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:20 sashkata wrote: This could have been Maru vs Rogue. Right? I sank in my chair when Trap beat Maru. It's been so long since a TvZ finals too | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:22 blooblooblahblah wrote: I'm upset we don't have a Zerg nexus yet If that happens I'll never call Rogue a patchzerg ever again | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:22 blooblooblahblah wrote: I'm upset we don't have a Zerg nexus yet This a serious game, Rogue would never disreapect his teamhouse brother. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:22 Waxangel wrote: it's kind of amazing that after all of this, the gas bank lead for Rogue is 'only' like 1500 didn't age well | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:23 Ej_ wrote: This a serious game, Rogue would never disreapect his teamhouse brother. But the style pointzzz | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:24 Ej_ wrote: Did that HT just kill an IT with AUTOATTACKS? Protoss is a joke | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
plz just remove neural parasite lol or infested terrans | ||
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dankobanana
Croatia238 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
at all | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:25 Penev wrote: infested terrans should really not be a thing at all All infestor spells thread a thin line between broken and useless. Usually drunkenly. | ||
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blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:25 Charoisaur wrote: at least he plays an aggressive style and not this Serral turtle-until-he-taps-out style. "Welcome to the thread", I was missing such enlightening insight. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:26 blooblooblahblah wrote: Man if Trap had detection there he could've killed a lot of infestors It's too bad he didn't use the 3k mineral bank he had earlier to just build random cannons all over his bases. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:27 Durnuu wrote: Give me a Charoisaur vs Xain0n discussion please, at least that could be entertaining A true GSL final, involving 2 foreigners at least. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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djraphi23
France2262 Posts
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Haukinger
Germany131 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? ... Did you miss last season? | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? Dark already won last season | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? Dark won the last GSL you goof. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? after four months you mean ? | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:27 Durnuu wrote: Give me a Charoisaur vs Xain0n discussion please, at least that could be entertaining I dunno, at this point it's about as repetitive as good old Blord/fester | ||
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rasi86
44 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? Boy have I got news for you. | ||
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rednusa
651 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? Dark last season? | ||
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darklycid
3512 Posts
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capu
Finland224 Posts
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Noa Greenini
265 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:27 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It's too bad he didn't use the 3k mineral bank he had earlier to just build random cannons all over his bases. Yup, plus a couple defensive DTs for the nydus aggression maybe. In the end it was a total stomp, Rogue had a lot of fun that game. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? Not even four months, did you forget Dark? | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:29 capu wrote: reverse sweep inc? maybe trap has prepared sweet sweet builds for upcoming maps. I appreciate your optimism. I suppose there's a reason Finland is the happiest country in the world! | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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OsaX Nymloth
Poland3244 Posts
does that mean TERRANS won this GSL (by proxy)? | ||
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rasi86
44 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 djraphi23 wrote: OK, so basically Blizzcon is going to be Serral vs Rogue. No way a terran or a protoss wins. Thinking the same. Its a shame | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:29 HolydaKing wrote: Yup, plus a couple defensive DTs for the nydus aggression maybe. In the end it was a total stomp, Rogue had a lot of fun that game. it definitely felt that way. Going for the style points when he knew the game was 100% his. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:30 Elentos wrote: Come on Rogue play 1 game without nydus. "just play with ur mouse only plz" | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:30 Elentos wrote: Come on Rogue play 1 game without nydus. He could ravager all-in Trap. For diversity. | ||
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djraphi23
France2262 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:29 capu wrote: reverse sweep inc? maybe trap has prepared sweet sweet builds for upcoming maps. ROFL ! Sick joke man | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
Honestly it's just as stupid as Infestor Brood lord from WoL, maybe dumber. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:29 Durnuu wrote: I appreciate your optimism. I suppose there's a reason Finland is the happiest country in the world! It's drugs. | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:29 swarminfestor wrote: I loved Infestor play. Good one from Rogue. ive never seen this sentence typed out before lol. reminds me of "GREAT FUNGALS TASTELESS" back in 2013 | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? Well, it has already been said by other users but I'm afraid I will be excluded if I don't also point out dark won the previous one. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:30 Durnuu wrote: Can't wait for Trap to keep losing to zergs in finals next year, much like soO in 2013/2014 No expansion to save him now | ||
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SuperFanBoy
New Zealand1068 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:28 Haukinger wrote: Can a zerg actually finally win a gsl after four years? Dark won last season | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
We're just tired of seeing poor local clickbait esports articles about Serral winning so we're optimistic about Protoss' chances | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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rednusa
651 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:33 Akio wrote: We're just tired of seeing poor local clickbait esports articles about Serral winning so we're optimistic about Protoss' chances Ohh, I see. No wait, pretty sure it's drugs. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:34 sneakyfox wrote: Ohh, I see. No wait, pretty sure it's drugs. Yeah it's drugs. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:37 Durnuu wrote: You know Trap is done for when player cams show up GSL PRODUCTION | ||
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Arcanefrost
Belgium1257 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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darklycid
3512 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
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Noonius
Estonia17413 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:40 Ziggy wrote: remember how the last proleague final was also a 4:0? Please do not mention that one ever again | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:40 Ziggy wrote: remember how the last proleague final was also a 4:0? Careful there, you're treading in dead game territory | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:40 Ziggy wrote: remember how the last proleague final was also a 4:0? :/ | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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rasi86
44 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:40 Durnuu wrote: Careful there, you're treading in dead game territory It's ok he's a writer nobody can report him. | ||
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Noa Greenini
265 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
A God among men | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4014 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? Rogue. But I'm a dark hater so maybe don't listen to me. Assuming you mean Korean. otherwise you are wrong. It's Serral. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? or Serral ? | ||
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darklycid
3512 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? Bold move | ||
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fLyiNgDroNe
Belgium4014 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? anyone who's style and nationality you personally like more obviously | ||
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rasi86
44 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? Rouge, Dark, Serral - doesnt matter. The winner is the state of the balance | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? Still Dark. He was at the start of the year and has only added to that with a far better year than Rogue in 2019. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Poopi
France12889 Posts
It's gonna be a fun blizzcon! | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18035 Posts
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rednusa
651 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? soO | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
When Rogue starts winning, you know it's time to nerf Zerg. Jokes aside, a player of his caliber deserves a Code S title. At least there is Charoisaur with his hilarious jokes! | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
. | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:42 Charoisaur wrote: who is the best Zerg of LotV? Dark or Rogue? Infestor. | ||
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
damn rogue | ||
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:44 Acrofales wrote: No clue if that's on Trap being bad, Rogue going beast mode or ZvP being broken, but that was the most boring finals I've watched in a while. At least game 3 was entertaining in the same way it's "entertaining" to watch a cat play with a wounded bird... If you think Trap is bad I don't know what to tell you. It's obviously ZvP You do realize that Protoss has been continually nerfed since the end of 2018 right? User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:44 Xain0n wrote: Trap has reached Byul level(better, to be honest, since his losses were in consecutive finals); I hope he won't turn into soO and eventually get his Code S. When Rogue starts winning, you know it's truly time to nerf Zerg. Jokes aside, a player of his caliber deserves a Code S title. ByuL also got back-to-back finals. Could even say back-to-back-to-back if you consider SSL. | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
Dehaka | ||
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romson87
Poland487 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:43 Proko wrote: Rogue. But I'm a dark hater so maybe don't listen to me. Assuming you mean Korean. otherwise you are wrong. It's Serral. Rogue wasn't getting bitchslapped out of Blizzcon by Gumiho when Zerg wasn't as good as it is today. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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djraphi23
France2262 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:44 Z3nith wrote: Still Dark. He was at the start of the year and has only added to that with a far better year than Rogue in 2019. Unlike Dark, Rogue wins in all finals. So Rogue. And Dark never looked as dominant as Rogue. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:46 Morbidius wrote: Rogue wasn't getting bitchslapped out of Blizzcon by Gumiho when Zerg wasn't as good as it is today. Well no, he was getting bitchslappped by Neeb out of GSL playoffs | ||
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NotSoHappy
445 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:47 Shuffleblade wrote: Thanks goes to Stats, Zest, Dear and Hurricane but not sOs. Seriously, sOs not helping his teammate? =P probably helped Trap | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:45 Waxangel wrote: Stats, Zest, Dear, Hurricane, Solar helped Rogue in practice, pretty cool :O I like to call this the "I have no good Protoss players on my team" approach. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:47 Shuffleblade wrote: Thanks goes to Stats, Zest, Dear and Hurricane but not sOs. Seriously, sOs not helping his teammate? =P I think Jin Air players chose not to take sides | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
guess what it does | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:47 Shuffleblade wrote: Thanks goes to Stats, Zest, Dear and Hurricane but not sOs. Seriously, sOs not helping his teammate? =P You need good players to help practice for a GSL final. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:46 Morbidius wrote: Rogue wasn't getting bitchslapped out of Blizzcon by Gumiho when Zerg wasn't as good as it is today. Trash level bait, Serral was still "only" a ladder king back then; if there is someone who wins when Zerg is strong, that's Rogue. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:47 djraphi23 wrote: Unlike Dark, Rogue wins in all finals. So Rogue. And Dark never looked as dominant as Rogue. When Dark was at his first peak Zerg was the weakest race in Korea. Not true for either of Rogue's peaks | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:47 Penev wrote: I have an idea for a new Zerg unit; The Festerworm guess what it does Yeah yeah we know, but which body part does it use for what it does? | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:47 Shuffleblade wrote: Thanks goes to Stats, Zest, Dear and Hurricane but not sOs. Seriously, sOs not helping his teammate? =P jin air green wings teammates didnt help maru, trap, or rogue | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18035 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:45 BerserkSword wrote: If you think Trap is bad I don't know what to tell you. It's obviously ZvP You do realize that Protoss has been continually nerfed since the end of 2018 right? Let me clarify: Trap's PvZ. Obviously his PvP and PvT are very strong. | ||
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romson87
Poland487 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33425 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:49 romson87 wrote: No "see you next year" from CEO? You've finally got it! | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:47 Waxangel wrote: I think Trap's PvZ win-rates on the year (match or maps) are now lower than Hurricane's :[ That's pretty impressive considering Hurricane managed to lose PvZs to two players I've never heard of just this month. Though Trap truly played terribly today. | ||
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Z3nith
485 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:49 romson87 wrote: No "see you next year" from CEO? We still got the Super Tournament. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Penev
28483 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:49 sneakyfox wrote: Yeah yeah we know, but which body part does it use for what it does? Ah, I see we have a connoisseur! The answer is yes | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24208 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
edit: not that I complain tho, GSL has the best production anyway | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:45 Durnuu wrote: ByuL also got back-to-back finals. Could even say back-to-back-to-back if you consider SSL. Uh, I stand corrected; I remembered S1 and S3, it was S2 and S3 instead. Trap is officially ByuL level. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
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stilt
France2749 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:46 Morbidius wrote: Rogue wasn't getting bitchslapped out of Blizzcon by Gumiho when Zerg wasn't as good as it is today. Oh, another frustrated hater who gonna have a very bad time at the next blizzcon <3 | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:52 yht9657 wrote: So Blizzard doesn't even care to host group stages for WCS Global Finals edit: not that I complain tho, GSL has the best production anyway Well they always held the group stages in their studio and people complained about there being no crowd. Now there's gonna be a crowd. | ||
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Proko
United States1022 Posts
In contrast to a foreigner advantage in the past, I suppose. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:53 Proko wrote: Yowza. Probably a pretty big advantage for Koreans at Blizzcon early rounds this year. Bad new for foreigners. Well it's not like they have anything else to do so they can just come to Korea early and take advantage of the superior practice environment. | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:54 sneakyfox wrote: Well it's not like they have anything else to do so they can just come to Korea early and take advantage of the superior practice environment. And then everybody will be at a disadvantage when we reach Anaheim. | ||
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Penev
28483 Posts
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Mettis
84 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:49 romson87 wrote: No "see you next year" from CEO? Probably because you'll see him in a few weeks in Korea.. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:54 sneakyfox wrote: Well it's not like they have anything else to do so they can just come to Korea early and take advantage of the superior practice environment. I wasn't following anymore. Will they hold Global Final's group stages in Korea? Are you sure this is going to be a disadvantage for foreigners? It actually seemed the opposite last GSL vs the World. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:57 Xain0n wrote: I wasn't following anymore. Will they hold Global Final's group stages in Korea? Yes | ||
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MoDiV
United States90 Posts
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:01 MoDiV wrote: is the ro16 in korea as well or just the group stages? Those are the same thing. Playoffs are in Anaheim. | ||
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MoDiV
United States90 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:02 Elentos wrote: Those are the same thing. Playoffs are in Anaheim. im dumb. | ||
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Poopi
France12889 Posts
On September 28 2019 18:49 Xain0n wrote: Trash level bait, Serral was still "only" a ladder king back then; if there is someone who wins when Zerg is strong, that's Rogue. So Rogue and Serral both became something other than ladder king at the same time :o. | ||
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RealityTheGreat
China564 Posts
Come and warn me User was warned for this post | ||
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repomaniak
Poland324 Posts
and more clips... + Show Spoiler + GSL sexy zerg sign GSL Trap cheer GSL signs Taiwan/ Russia GSL maru & creator delivering juice boxes GSL cheer GSL proleague to gsl rogue x trap GSL audience GSL signs GSL MVP in the studio GSL rogues mom ? GSL finals rogue interview rogue ceremony | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
I honestly don't know what goes through the minds of the balance team. Completely neuter a race just because of over representation at a super tournament and a "protossed" meme...is this what starcraft has become? I hate to say it, but I think this might be SC2's death knell or close to it. WTF are we even watching nowadays? Stats and Classic are on their way out and they are the only one who have won trophies for the entire race since 2017, aside from Neeb who farms NA. SC is and always has been about 3 races. When one of them is not trophy viable it's over. And the balance team has proven once again that they are either incompetent or dont take the balance seriously Protoss talent is helpless. Stats and Classic each win a smaller premier tournament every year, and the rest of the protoss greats like Zest, sOs, and hero just get trashed and are aging anyway. sigh | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:16 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed it. Is it worth checking out or is it the usual ZvP stomp? don't watch it. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:16 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed it. Is it worth checking out or is it the usual ZvP stomp? you can pass on this one for sure | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:07 Poopi wrote: So Rogue and Serral both became something other than ladder king at the same time :o. During Serral's dominant run last year, no other Zerg won a title(Serral won five) and only Reynor reached a final(even if Lambo, Dark and Rogue were eliminated by Serral himself in the ro4). During Rogue's run in 2017-2018, Serral and Scarlett won titles and Snute, soO, Solar reached a final; this year, since Code S S3 started, Reynor and Serral won titles and Elazer, Solar reached a final. The difference should be pretty clear. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:16 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed it. Is it worth checking out or is it the usual ZvP stomp? Oh it's in contention for worst GSL final since NesTea vs Inca. | ||
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lolfail9001
Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:21 Elentos wrote: Oh it's in contention for worst GSL final since NesTea vs Inca. Thanks, though i guess it's worth checking out if i get depressed again, if it's this bad. | ||
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Poopi
France12889 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:19 Xain0n wrote: During Serral's dominant run last year, no other Zerg won a title(Serral won five) and only Reynor reached a final(even if Lambo, Dark and Rogue were eliminated by Serral himself in the ro4). During Rogue's run in 2017-2018, Serral and Scarlett won titles and Snute, soO, Solar reached a final; this year, since Code S S3 started, Reynor and Serral won titles and Elazer, Solar reached a final. The difference should be pretty clear. It's pretty tiring to repeat oneself but in WCS (both Circuit and KR) zergs were doing super fine with or without Serral. They also did pretty well in prizemoney $$$ won. It was also pretty clear during BlizzCon that Stats would have no shot at the finals and either of Serral/Rogue would have won it, so it was about who wins the ZvZ in ro4. Of course no other zerg won a title if you exclude Serral, since Serral won all WCS circuits events lol. They still had fantastic results. Zerg was super strong in 2017 (with the hydra buff and stuff) when Rogue won. It was also super strong in 2018 when Serral won (especially with the horrendous full of light big ass map where Lambo beat TY, don't remember the name), and it seems strong in 2019 as well, especially now that protoss got nerfed (both were kinda strong at the start of the year) And it's okay. You can accept the fact that both Rogue and Serral peaked in favorable meta, it doesn't take away the fact that they were the most successfull zerg in their respective dominant years. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 19:30 Poopi wrote: It's pretty tiring to repeat oneself but in WCS (both Circuit and KR) zergs were doing super fine with or without Serral. They also did pretty well in prizemoney $$$ won. It was also pretty clear during BlizzCon that Stats would have no shot at the finals and either of Serral/Rogue would have won it, so it was about who wins the ZvZ in ro4. Of course no other zerg won a title if you exclude Serral, since Serral won all WCS circuits events lol. They still had fantastic results. Zerg was super strong in 2017 (with the hydra buff and stuff) when Rogue won. It was also super strong in 2018 when Serral won (especially with the horrendous full of light big ass map where Lambo beat TY, don't remember the name), and it seems strong in 2019 as well, especially now that protoss got nerfed (both were kinda strong at the start of the year) And it's okay. You can accept the fact that both Rogue and Serral peaked in favorable meta, it doesn't take away the fact that they were the most successfull zerg in their respective dominant years. I was counting GSL too and excluding the first half of the year(when Rogue IEM, Dark reached multiple finals and Serral clearly wasn't at their level yet); also, such a heavy Zerg environment in WCS produced only one ZvZ mirror final(Serral vs Reynor) with the race being as strong as you claim? Zerg weren't doing fine in GSL(TvP and TvT finals in Code S S1 and S2, PvP in Super Tournament II). It was "pretty clear" that Stats, who alone won two of the three maps Serral lost at BlizzCon, couldn't have beaten Rogue? I don't think so, that's your opinion. While Zerg clearly looks like the strongest race now, when Serral peaked in 2018 it was a good race hard that he personally carried hard. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Boo for bad games | ||
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norterrible
United States618 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
And like, why is nydus worm even a thing. Why did they make it? Zerg is not only the fastest moving race by far, but also already has mass drop capability with overlords. | ||
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Crocolisk Dundee
870 Posts
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On September 28 2019 20:53 travis wrote: Maybe trap's playing pvz wrong but the state of the game looks... so awful. Late game zerg really does look like "play well and win for sure" most games. I know it's a balance whine but the tournament is over so I feel like it's ok. And like, why is nydus worm even a thing. Why did they make it? Zerg is not only the fastest moving race by far, but also already has mass drop capability with overlords. mass drop overlords are hardly a strength of zerg, they are awful. | ||
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Chibuyo
Germany14 Posts
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gulii
Sweden2791 Posts
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
On September 28 2019 21:07 91matt wrote: mass drop overlords are hardly a strength of zerg, they are awful. I'm not saying it's a strength of zerg, I am saying it's an option that was already there. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On September 28 2019 21:03 Crocolisk Dundee wrote: The most exciting moment in this finals was when the camera showed Curious in the audience. In my mind, Mvp won this GSL finals, hands down. Time for a new GOAT discussion thread?!?!! | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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BigRedDog
461 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 28 2019 21:39 BigRedDog wrote: I only saw the first and last game but I would say the final is actually Dark vs Rogue. That was definitely a nail-biter series. when you realise the really final was Rogue vs Zest | ||
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Zambrah
United States7327 Posts
Disappointing. | ||
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greenturtle23
86 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
soO won his first significant championship Dark made and then won his first GSL finals Rogue made his first GSL ro4, finals, then won the tournament. It is the first year in LotV and first time since 2015 with 4 ZvZ finals of significant tournaments. | ||
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MrShankly
United Kingdom371 Posts
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Inrau
35 Posts
On September 28 2019 21:54 Fango wrote: when you realise the really final was Rogue vs Zest And Zest could have won that 4th game had he stormed better in the final engagement and didnt clump up his army. I'd like to see storm drops before the infestors get neural. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
Might not be the greatest balance guys | ||
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Poopi
France12889 Posts
On September 28 2019 22:44 Nakajin wrote: Of the last 40 tournament finalist, 22 were zerg and of the last 20 champion 13 were zerg. Might not be the greatest balance guys But someone told me Serral was the greatest esport athlete ever? Was I fooled? | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 20:53 travis wrote: Maybe trap's playing pvz wrong but the state of the game looks... so awful. Late game zerg really does look like "play well and win for sure" most games. I know it's a balance whine but the tournament is over so I feel like it's ok. And like, why is nydus worm even a thing. Why did they make it? Zerg is not only the fastest moving race by far, but also already has mass drop capability with overlords. Don't feel bad, complaining about balance and game design is basically what game commentary is about at this point. Even Tastosis are saying it all the time. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 28 2019 22:50 Poopi wrote: But someone told me Serral was the greatest esport athlete ever? Was I fooled? Why? Serral is probably most of these on his own | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On September 28 2019 22:50 Poopi wrote: But someone told me Serral was the greatest esport athlete ever? Was I fooled? You were. The hierarchy is Taeja >> Zest > Serral | ||
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Poopi
France12889 Posts
On September 28 2019 22:54 sneakyfox wrote: Don't feel bad, complaining about balance and game design is basically what game commentary is about at this point. Even Tastosis are saying it all the time. Why do you think they are talking about it now? Iirc during broodlord infestor they didn’t mention it | ||
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Carminedust
487 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
trap could never leave his base because he always had like 50 supply of tech units defending a new nydus and he couldn't afford things like cannons because he kept losing buildings in the main anyway happy for rogue and not that angry about balance personally but the games just plain sucked to watch | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 22:50 Poopi wrote: But someone told me Serral was the greatest esport athlete ever? Was I fooled? Since the start of 2018, Zerg took 17 Premier tournaments and Serral won 10 of those by himself(Rogue and Reynor won 2 while soO, Dark and Scarlett won 1 each); also, Zerg lost 11 finals if I'm counting correctly(Serral lost 3) while Protoss lost 13. You were not fooled, Serral truly is great and Zerg being very strong in the last few months has nothing to deal with that. At the moment, Protoss should lead with 87 Premier titles followed by Zerg with 86 and Terran with 85, but this should be verified(I'm not sure if I am on par with Liquipedia's last changes). | ||
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greenturtle23
86 Posts
1. There can be several nyduses that can pop up at once as long as you have vision. 2. There is no cap on the number of units that can travel. 2 is especially problematic because it means an entire army can pop in to an opponents base, and even more importantly retreat out. Comboed with infested terrans, it is just silly. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 28 2019 22:31 MrShankly wrote: Was Trap half asleep during those games? Nah the balance team was | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last 8 WCS - zerg Last 2 GSL - zerg Last 4 IEM - zerg Last 2 blizzcon - zerg Last 2 GSL vs TW - zerg Last 2 HSC - zerg Shame they had to lose game 7s in the last 2 WeSG as well or they would have an entire monopoly over sc2. And before anyone says half of them were Serral, you're right. Serral is the best zerg. If zerg is winning everything then it makes sense the best of them would win the most. Take him away and other zergs would have more trophies (reynor wins every wcs, rogue wins another blizzcon etc). | ||
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WerderBremen
Germany1070 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
At this time I am starting to think that Blizzard wants Serral to win another Blizzcon no matter what. Funny thing is that he actually didn’t need any help, this only devaluates his wins as it does with Rogue. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 28 2019 23:57 Xamo wrote: At this time I am starting to think that Blizzard wants Serral to win another Blizzcon no matter what. Funny thing is that he actually didn’t need any help, this only devaluates his wins as it does with Rogue. The entire mission of the WCS system since 2016 was to get a foreigner champion so at this point the conspiracy only grows stronger | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 28 2019 23:16 Poopi wrote: Why do you think they are talking about it now? Iirc during broodlord infestor they didn’t mention it Probably because the game was mature and in a quite good state for 2017 and 2018 (except perhaps TvP) so now it's felt all the harder because we know how good it could be. Blizzard screwed up big time. | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3111 Posts
Game 3 was especially rough (though admittedly hilarious in its own way). I'm about as resistant to balance whine as they come, but the fact that you have a single unit Zerg can build in late game that in itself counters every aspect of Protoss late game (fungal counters melee units & small units, infested terrans counter air, neural counters all big slow important units, when Protoss late game=small numbers of slow important mostly air units + swarms of Chargelots) already frustrated me, & now it turns out that Infestors also are the best harass unit in the game, with perma-cloak & the ability to pop up anywhere & kill both probes & buildings...bleh. Seeing Zerg use the same unit to kill the Protoss economy & infrastructure, get out without losing anything, & then immediately use the same units to stomp all over their late game army is just not particularly fun or dynamic to watch, to say the least. The Nydus Worm is something I'm more fond of, & I think it has its place in the game, but the issue seems to be the way in which it allows Zerg to instantly translate an extremely defensive stance (build lots of Queens! build lots of Roaches! which are both rather slow, ungainly units that are supposed to have as a downside the fact that by making yourself safe from all-ins & harass you're neutering your long-term offensive potential) into a game-ending all-in that bypasses all defenses & translates most Zerg defensive advantages directly to the enemy's main (now all those slow, ungainly defensive units are in your base, on creep, with instant reinforce!). The basic issue is that it just feels like while Zerg has a number of things that feel really strong in different, complimentary ways, Protoss...doesn't. You can have a race with big advantages at certain points if the other race has units/abilities/etc that can pull off dramatic swings in turn. I dunno what that would be for Protoss, though (warp prism all-ins were, but I dunno if they still are). Anyway, as I said, I don't like balance whine, so I will say Rogue played well, & I'm happy he won a final finally. Also PvT seems to be in a really excellent state atm, so I look forward to seeing some good games in the Global Finals there. | ||
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parksonsc
175 Posts
On September 29 2019 01:08 Captain Peabody wrote: That was...a depressing finals. Game 3 was especially rough (though admittedly hilarious in its own way). I'm about as resistant to balance whine as they come, but the fact that you have a single unit Zerg can build in late game that in itself counters every aspect of Protoss late game (fungal counters melee units & small units, infested terrans counter air, neural counters all big slow important units, when Protoss late game=small numbers of slow important mostly air units + swarms of Chargelots) already frustrated me, & now it turns out that Infestors also are the best harass unit in the game, with perma-cloak & the ability to pop up anywhere & kill both probes & buildings...bleh. Seeing Zerg use the same unit to kill the Protoss economy & infrastructure, get out without losing anything, & then immediately use the same units to stomp all over their late game army is just not particularly fun or dynamic to watch, to say the least. The Nydus Worm is something I'm more fond of, & I think it has its place in the game, but the issue seems to be the way in which it allows Zerg to instantly translate an extremely defensive stance (build lots of Queens! build lots of Roaches! which are both rather slow, ungainly units that are supposed to have as a downside the fact that by making yourself safe from all-ins & harass you're neutering your long-term offensive potential) into a game-ending all-in that bypasses all defenses & translates most Zerg defensive advantages directly to the enemy's main (now all those slow, ungainly defensive units are in your base, on creep, with instant reinforce!). The basic issue is that it just feels like while Zerg has a number of things that feel really strong in different, complimentary ways, Protoss...doesn't. You can have a race with big advantages at certain points if the other race has units/abilities/etc that can pull off dramatic swings in turn. I dunno what that would be for Protoss, though (warp prism all-ins were, but I dunno if they still are). Anyway, as I said, I don't like balance whine, so I will say Rogue played well, & I'm happy he won a final finally. Also PvT seems to be in a really excellent state atm, so I look forward to seeing some good games in the Global Finals there. Firstly, dont pretend like you are not balance whining like anyone would, given this shitty final. Secondly, PvT is in excellent state? You must be kidding. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 28 2019 23:37 Fango wrote: btw zerg has a streak in almost every tournament series Last 8 WCS - zerg Last 2 GSL - zerg Last 4 IEM - zerg Last 2 blizzcon - zerg Last 2 GSL vs TW - zerg Last 2 HSC - zerg Shame they had to lose game 7s in the last 2 WeSG as well or they would have an entire monopoly over sc2. And before anyone says half of them were Serral, you're right. Serral is the best zerg. If zerg is winning everything then it makes sense the best of them would win the most. Take him away and other zergs would have more trophies (reynor wins every wcs, rogue wins another blizzcon etc). That's a more subtle way of discrediting Serral: now that's objectively impossible to say that he is not good enough or that he wasn't extensively tested in a certain matchup, it must be that Serral won his titles because Zerg is simply too strong, forgetting that in this "Zerg Summer" he won only 2 out of his 10(and that he won when balance was better or even unfavorable to Zerg like at HSC XVIII). Coming more strictly to your point, while it's true that Zerg have been performing very well in WCS and international tournaments(while they had never won a Code S in LoTV before Dark did three months ago), Serral is not just the best when Zerg winning is a foregone conclusion as you are saying; let's take a look at what would have happened if we took him out of the equation(assuming he lost every ro4), with the exception of Code S and IEM that Serral never won(meaning that those streaks would be intact anyway). HSC's titles are entirely due to Serral being Serral, no other Zerg was close to winning: at XVIII, we would have had a Bunny-Inno final while at XIX the final would have most likely been TY-Zest. As for BlizzCon, a Zerg had to win in 2017, no doubt, but last year Stats could have very well taken out Rogue in the eventual finals considering how he fared against Serral's ZvP, by far the best in the world at the time; Serral's contribution was needed to create the streak, a 50% to say the least. Serral's mark on GSL vs The World is even more evident: Stats would have arguably been favored against Dark in 2018 while Elazer's chanches would have been very slim against Classic last August. Last comes WCS! In 2018, at Leipzeig the final would have been Showtime-Special, at Austin Lambo could have maybe been favored over Mana, at Valencia Big Gabe would have been given the task of stopping Has' miracolous run while we'd have had a mirror final at Montreal(probably Reynor winning it and going to BlizzCon). In 2019, Reynor actually won twice(not sure if he could have beaten Heromarine at WCS Winter while I could see him make short work of Showtime at WCS Summer) and he would have been arguably favored over Special at WCS Spring and Neeb at WCS Fall. There would be an open Zerg streak in WCS although probably as large as 3 titles. According to this abstraction, Serral's presence would have gifted the Zerg race 6/7 Premier titles(and one Major); otherwise, we might have seen a non korean Terran win a WCS Circuit and Protoss' record in finals being considerably better, with Stats probably becoming the best player ever to play the race. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Zerg's current streak: Last 8 WCS Last 2 GSL Last 4 IEM Last 2 blizzcon Last 2 GSL vs TW Last 2 HSC Zerg's current streak minus Serral: Last 5 WCS Last 4 IEM Last 2 blizzcon Last 2 GSL Still looks busted to me. (and yes I took some assumptions like Rogue winning blizzcon last year and reynor winning every wcs this year but those results would have been highly favoured). | ||
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lifecanwait
96 Posts
What Trap could have done better is put cannons/observers in important places near his base, so Infestors cannot get through unseen. But against nyduses in multiple locations there is nothing you can do, as the Zergs just tend to sacrifice overlords to have full vision. That definitely should be changed in the future. | ||
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LordYama
United States370 Posts
Oh it's in contention for worst GSL final since NesTea vs Inca. Didn't that one feature some comical slow banelings chasing probes around a nexus or pylon? That reference brings that image to my mind for some reason. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 29 2019 02:24 Fango wrote: Yah that's exactly my point, take Serral away and zerg is still the best race. This isn't like Maru winning GSL when no other terran made ro8. Serral is not close to being the lone zerg contending for championships (Dark, Reynor, soO, Rogue, and maybe even Elazer or Solar can be thrown in there). Zerg's current streak: Last 8 WCS Last 2 GSL Last 4 IEM Last 2 blizzcon Last 2 GSL vs TW Last 2 HSC Zerg's current streak minus Serral: Last 5 WCS Last 4 IEM Last 2 blizzcon Last 2 GSL Still looks busted to me. (and yes I took some assumptions like Rogue winning blizzcon last year and reynor winning every wcs this year but those results would have been highly favoured). You mean it's not like Terran winning seven Code S in a row as it was the case earlier this year(or TY not winning Code S because Maru did)? Reynor most likely wouldn't have won all of the WCS stops in 2019 and the idea that Rogue would have it won against Stats last BlizzCon is frankly ridicolous, it would have been a coin toss. Zerg won 6 out of the last 8 Premier Tournaments(GPL included...), a balance problem most likely exists in this "Zerg Summer", and it will be addressed next patch, be sure of that; this only is what is making Zerg's numbers look off the scale if we remove Serral, who is even bigger of a factor. Instead of having 7 T-5 P-17 Z as Premier Tournament winner since the start of 2018, without Serral we would have had something like 9 T-9 P-11 Z: much more balanced overall despite the "Zerg Summer" imbalance being barely scratched(only GSL vs the World 2019 would have had a different champion). | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
this isn't a race representation issue, it's a "lategame zvp is a stupid circus" issue, but yeah let's have the same stupid tinfoil rants about CoNsPiraCies To MaKe seRrAL wIN!!!! | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 29 2019 02:56 Tsubbi wrote: Was Trap sick or something? His played looked absolutely awful no, that's actually what it looks like when a world class protoss defends against nydus attacks (no sarcasm) | ||
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Sombre
United Kingdom86 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 29 2019 03:12 Sombre wrote: My friend says the Sandwiches they handed out were bizarre. Ham and cheese with caramel sauce We should talk more about these things and not about the current balance. Ham + cheese + caramel huh, definitely a weird composition but i'd try it. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 29 2019 03:15 The_Red_Viper wrote: We should talk more about these things and not about the current balance. Ham + cheese + caramel huh, definitely a weird composition but i'd try it. More importantly, how will this meta develop over the coming month?! For the super tournament they could serve falaffel with ice cream but what will happen at the global finals ro16? Noodle soup with marshmellows? Gummy bear kimchi?!? What the hell is going on afreeca you madmen | ||
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Captain Peabody
United States3111 Posts
On September 29 2019 03:15 The_Red_Viper wrote: We should talk more about these things and not about the current balance. Ham + cheese + caramel huh, definitely a weird composition but i'd try it. Yeah, doesn't actually sound bad. It would depend a lot on what kind of bread they used tho | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On September 29 2019 02:57 brickrd wrote: no, that's actually what it looks like when a world class protoss defends against nydus attacks (no sarcasm) Yeah, a build like Rogue did in game 1 and 2 is exceptionally hard to hold. It's one of those builds where if one nydus gets built you just lose, but even worse because zerg also attacks the front wall, anything less than a perfect response to both fronts is a loss because at that point in the game protoss doesn't usually have enough units to deal with both mass queens with transfuse and a mass ling attack. The infestor/broodlord + nydus infestor harass strategy is something Puck actually brought up a long long time ago (as in right after the nydus buff first happened) as being borderline impossible to beat if zerg plays it right. You have to spend resources to defend against units that only cost energy, and because of how infestors are they will almost always do damage with harass while not costing the zerg anything. It's problematic to say the least. | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
On September 29 2019 03:43 Captain Peabody wrote: Yeah, doesn't actually sound bad. It would depend a lot on what kind of bread they used tho their bread was probably really soft and soggy white bread  as a german most bread is horrible tho :D | ||
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-Kaiser-
Canada932 Posts
If they're really set on infestors being such a multi-purpose, powerful unit, do they need to only cost 100/150? They're barely only more expensive than mutas, but they're easily the most powerful spellcaster and historically problematic. It doesn't really even hurt to lose them because their comp secures so much income. Might be nice to see some creativity with Protoss lategame. Could make mothership immune to neural and give it some range? P needs some way to besiege the Zerg army if Z is always going to win a straight engagement. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On September 29 2019 03:37 sneakyfox wrote: More importantly, how will this meta develop over the coming month?! For the super tournament they could serve falaffel with ice cream but what will happen at the global finals ro16? Noodle soup with marshmellows? Gummy bear kimchi?!? What the hell is going on afreeca you madmen I heard lambo say that the korean sandwich meta is behind the eu one, so maybe afreeca is trying to be gimmicky and work with surprise ingredients to get the edge. | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
Game 1: Trap tried to mindgame, which relied solely on Rogue not scouting and being caught off guard. The build itself (early robo into 2-stargate phoenix off 2 base) is dead in the water against any type of all-in. His gambit failed, Rogue got the scout, and chose to all-in. Nydus was the flavor of the day, but a roach/ravager/ling all-in would have worked just as well against hardly any ground units and a small phoenix count. Game 2: Trap played bad. I don't know how else to put it. He basically died to being caught off-guard by small amounts of lings over and over, and once again, the nydus itself was just the cherry on top of Trap's poop cake. Game 3: The only game that I think most of the balance discussion should actually revolve around. I don't think Trap was powerless as much as he was unprepared. That was the only high-profile game that I know of where the infestor-nydus combo was used to such great effect. It looked like Trap tried to improvise a strategy against it but didn't really know what to do. Just a couple more observers might have gone a long way, because we saw how insanely cost-effective those disruptor shots were against the unprotected infestors. The problem was that most of the time he couldn't actually see the infestors, and he whiffed a few key shots that could have turned the tide. The whole game was basically Rogue whipping out a new playstyle to say, "See? I really am still a lategame monster." Maybe we should withhold our judgment on it until our Protoss pros have had some time to think about and test some solutions. Game 4 was basically just a well-defended all-in whose outcome rested on a few key moments. TL;DR ZvP might be in a rough spot right now, but I don't think this particular series is a shining example of a good balance discussion (besides maybe game 3). | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 29 2019 05:24 Kitai wrote: TL;DR ZvP might be in a rough spot right now, but I don't think this particular series is a shining example of a good balance discussion (besides maybe game 3). you are arguing with a strawman. no one here is saying "trap played better and should have won but balance stole it from him," people are saying 1) the games were dogshit to watch, pretty much everyone agrees on this 2) whether he "should have won" or not in any particular game, nydus strategies look unreasonably oppressive you don't have to think trap is "better" or "played better" or "should have won" to think that nydus is fucked up On September 29 2019 05:29 Kitai wrote: Also: I don't think this finals was *nearly* as bad as NesTea vs Inca. Yes, it was mostly a beatdown, but at least Trap tried different strategies instead of "well, the spore crawlers stopped my DT Hail Mary the last three games, but THIS one will be different!" to each his own but i think most people find it frustrating, not exciting, to watch someone try hail mary cheese builds while being obliterated 4-0 and no one is using just this series to base their nydus opinions on - i've been seeing pros die to nydus, GM streamers die to nydus, and casual ladder players die to nydus for months, nobody just randomly decided this based on one finals | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
On September 29 2019 02:48 Xain0n wrote: Instead of having 7 T-5 P-17 Z as Premier Tournament winner since the start of 2018, without Serral we would have had something like 9 T-9 P-11 Z: much more balanced overall despite the "Zerg Summer" imbalance being barely scratched(only GSL vs the World 2019 would have had a different champion). if you remove the best Zerg out of the equation you also have to remove the best Terran and the best Protoss out of the equation for a fair comparison | ||
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Kitai
United States873 Posts
On September 29 2019 05:31 brickrd wrote: to each his own but i think most people find it frustrating, not exciting, to watch someone try hail mary cheese builds while being obliterated 4-0 Yes, you just described the entire Inca vs NesTea finals, which is why I said it was worse - especially because it was the same cheese every game. | ||
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Elentos
55553 Posts
On September 29 2019 05:32 Charoisaur wrote: if you remove the best Zerg out of the equation you also have to remove the best Terran and the best Protoss out of the equation for a fair comparison Taking out Maru, Serral and Stats leaves us with 3 Protoss, 2 Terran and 7 Zerg Premier wins since the start of 2018 with a major asterisk on 1 of the Terran wins because you have to be really biased to consider GPL a Premier. And also minor asterisks on Protoss and Zerg because WCS Winter is iffy too. | ||
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necrosexy
451 Posts
also, would anyone else like to seriously argue that nydus is "ok"? lol ... | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15972 Posts
On September 29 2019 06:00 necrosexy wrote: The wheel hath come full circle! also, would anyone else like to seriously argue that nydus is "ok"? lol ... Yes it promotes action-packed, exciting games! Protoss needs to learn how to defend properly. | ||
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Poopi
France12889 Posts
Congrats to Rogue tho, a new GSL champion is always nice and he deserves it after so long ro8 curse / mental block | ||
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RogerChillingworth
2954 Posts
Rogue wins tournaments with queen/nydus/ling. It's just what he does. I figured there were gonna be at least 1 or 2 of those in there, along with a Trap proxy and a couple immortal all-ins. Z seems strong right now, but I feel it's mostly Rogue's play style that makes his series unfun to watch. I dno, I just never enjoy a Rogue series. I said on reddit I think Dark/Maru would have been a great finals and that Maru didn't monster mode it vs Trap. He just kinda died. Got downvoted into oblivion. Hate to say I told you so, but the mixture of ZvP, Trap playing bad, and Rogue's playstyle doesn't exactly set us up for a great back-and-forth finals. (Of course, we couldn't have predicted Trap would underperform, but the fact that it's a team-kill may hint at something along those lines, for either rogue or trap). | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On September 29 2019 05:39 Elentos wrote: Taking out Maru, Serral and Stats leaves us with 3 Protoss, 2 Terran and 7 Zerg Premier wins since the start of 2018 with a major asterisk on 1 of the Terran wins because you have to be really biased to consider GPL a Premier. And also minor asterisks on Protoss and Zerg because WCS Winter is iffy too. If you want to play my game, the removed Premier tournaments(from most to less recent) without Maru and Stats(considering him as the best Protoss), would have the following alternate finals:TIME/herO vs Solar, Classic vs Trap, TY vs Zest, sOs vs Rogue, Showtime/Special vs Dark, Classic vs Zest, Dark vs herO, Reynor vs Dark, soO vs Dark. It's undeniable that Terran would have suffered, without Maru; this would set it up to something like 14/15 Z-10/9 P-5 T since 2018 but at this point there would just be too many question marks. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25567 Posts
Specifically as it pertains to PvZ and not other matchups, nyduses are really brutal. Protoss rely on walling and powering, and can survive no problem if they’re playing defensively. However they can’t really beat BL/Infestor, so they hit sharp pre-BL timings. Which Zergs were better at defending recently anyway but now they have cheaper OL speed to boot. It feels Protoss are really, really constricted in this matchup against quality Zergs nowadays. They can try to hit some early timing, although Zergs are better at sniffing these out. They can try to hit a pre-Brood timing but nydus backstabs as they move out really bleed out the push, or they can attempt to beat BL/Infestor straight up which doesn’t tend to go very well. If your gameplan is doing something like a fakeout into double stargate build and hoping your opponent misreads it, I just don’t think that is a good matchup dynamic at all. I don’t think any individual element is broken but in combination they’re a bad mix. If your racial strength in a matchup is the element of surprise and the opponent race both got stuff better figured out by players, then got an additional buff to their ability to scout said surprises. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25567 Posts
On September 29 2019 02:57 brickrd wrote: no, that's actually what it looks like when a world class protoss defends against nydus attacks (no sarcasm) Basically. He really didn’t even play that badly at all, which is the frustrating thing. A combination of nyduses popping up all over the place, cloaked Infestor runbys, while trying to do something offensively it’s just incredibly difficult to deal with, it looks sloppy as an observer sure but Rogue hit him from so many angles all the time. Rogue utilised all these elements fantastically and really played a great series. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25567 Posts
On September 28 2019 23:22 brickrd wrote: something is wrong with nydus... i don't even think it's BL infestor. like BL infestor is strong, maybe slightly imba, but the constant nyduses everywhere at every stage of the game are what turns it into a circus. not sure what the correct adjustment is, maybe spawn time...? trap could never leave his base because he always had like 50 supply of tech units defending a new nydus and he couldn't afford things like cannons because he kept losing buildings in the main anyway happy for rogue and not that angry about balance personally but the games just plain sucked to watch I feel it’s the combination of various factors, least looking at game 3. Protoss can’t really kill BL/Infestor if the Zerg is good, so they hit a timing before that really gets set. Protoss armies tend to. be kinda garbage split up around a map (unlike say Bio), so the nydus backstab to counter that attempt at a timing is really potent. I’ve seen Trap hit a lot of really sharp timings to kill Zergs pre-Brood lately, or at least before BL/Infestor hits critical mass in places like Olimoleague and whatnot. Rogue’s counter in the relevant games was super solid strategically, just nydus and either the Protoss pulls back to defend and misses that timing, or you start hitting eco and production so the reinforcement potential is reduced and the timing doesn’t work even if you fully commit. It’s really strong play, you kind of have to respect the Nydus once it pops up in your base. I’ve felt they were (to me anyway) mystifyingly underused by Zergs in mid/late game scenarios until relatively recently, but the top dogs have added it to their toolkit | ||
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CKSide
United States223 Posts
Nonetheless, despite it being one sided, i thoroughly enjoyed the finals. Congratulations Rogue! | ||
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fgonzo
108 Posts
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Xamo
Spain880 Posts
On September 29 2019 14:57 fgonzo wrote: Holy shit Rogue was amazing. He completely outplayed Trap in every single aspect. And Trap was playing like a PvZ god too. Rogue also completely dismantled Dark. Yeah I'm pretty sure that Rogue will win Blizzcon as long as he doesn't get any top level Terrans in his bracket. Did you watch BlizzCon last year? I do not think he can beat Serral in a BO5 either. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On September 29 2019 04:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: I heard lambo say that the korean sandwich meta is behind the eu one, so maybe afreeca is trying to be gimmicky and work with surprise ingredients to get the edge. It's going to be real showdown. Can't wait to see Lambo tweeting about it from home while the best Circuit players are in Seoul playing the Ro16 | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
zerg OP i know but its more like he got no really good zerg practice partner for a better preparation may be team JA should poach Dark who s somewhat less chadness than rogue | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6937 Posts
On September 29 2019 09:02 Wombat_NI wrote: Basically. He really didn’t even play that badly at all, which is the frustrating thing. A combination of nyduses popping up all over the place, cloaked Infestor runbys, while trying to do something offensively it’s just incredibly difficult to deal with, it looks sloppy as an observer sure but Rogue hit him from so many angles all the time. Rogue utilised all these elements fantastically and really played a great series. Well, Rogue was everywhere, Trap was not. Therefore Trap played bad Sure the defending in these situations costs more of your attention than attacking, but Traps defending was still awful | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25567 Posts
On October 01 2019 19:02 Harris1st wrote: Well, Rogue was everywhere, Trap was not. Therefore Trap played bad Sure the defending in these situations costs more of your attention than attacking, but Traps defending was still awful I mean wouldn’t go as far to say Trap played well, and he made big mistakes, but a 5 or 6/10 rating would be what I’d give. Problem was Rogue was playing great Starcraft, plus had a good anti-Trap gameplan too. Pity really, hope Trap makes it back to a finals and clutch it out in the future. | ||
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