Bomber vs ByuN Game 1 Bomber vs ByuN Game 2 Bomber vs ByuNGame 3 Bomber vs ByuN Game 4 Bomber vs ByuN Game 5 Bomber vs ByuN Game 6 Bomber vs ByuN Game 7 Grand Finals
Solar vs TY Game 1 Solar vs TY Game 2 Solar vs TY Game 3 Solar vs TY Game 4 Solar vs TY Game 5 Solar vs TY Game 6 Solar vs TY Game 7
LotV is (from what I've seen so far) much more fast paced and fun to watch. Can't wait to actually grind on ladder. Something else I've noticed, specifically with this tournament, is that Korean Terran players have REALLY strong fundamentals which is why they were always on top when a new iteration of sc2 was released (WoL, HotS, LotV).
Well on the ladder it is mostly either surviving or attacking before the 10 minute mark at the moment. There is no down period, you always have been on your toes. When you do manage to hit the midgame you have so many tools to make things happen that games still don't last long haha, well at least as zerg. Upgrading overlords to transport units, then you have ravagers, lurkers, vipers, stronger ultra lisks and actual cracklings. Win or lose I'm really enjoying the game at the moment.
On November 15 2015 22:09 The_Red_Viper wrote: bo7 for the third place match? I mean more games in general is good, but bo5 for this would have been enough too imo
On November 15 2015 22:09 The_Red_Viper wrote: bo7 for the third place match? I mean more games in general is good, but bo5 for this would have been enough too imo
Semis were bo7, why would you go back to bo5 for a more important match?
On November 15 2015 22:09 The_Red_Viper wrote: bo7 for the third place match? I mean more games in general is good, but bo5 for this would have been enough too imo
Semis were bo7, why would you go back to bo5 for a more important match?
most tournaments do best of 5 or more commonly bo3 for third place match, if they have one at all
On November 15 2015 22:09 The_Red_Viper wrote: bo7 for the third place match? I mean more games in general is good, but bo5 for this would have been enough too imo
Semis were bo7, why would you go back to bo5 for a more important match?
most tournaments do best of 5 or more commonly bo3 for third place match, if they have one at all
But 3rd/4th place is a difference of more than 1000$ t.t
On November 15 2015 22:09 The_Red_Viper wrote: bo7 for the third place match? I mean more games in general is good, but bo5 for this would have been enough too imo
Semis were bo7, why would you go back to bo5 for a more important match?
most tournaments do best of 5 or more commonly bo3 for third place match, if they have one at all
On November 15 2015 22:23 KingofdaHipHop wrote: it's a shame we didn't get to watch any PvP or ZvZ, would've loved to see what all the matchups look like in a box format
Never forget Stork's proxy 4 gate, that should become a thing in PvP t.t
I had a game on Dusk Towers where I lost tons of economy but had an upgrade lead so my trades got too good over time. Bomber is gonna be in trouble if he can't find a way to end it now.
On November 15 2015 22:59 KingofdaHipHop wrote: I still wish that ByuN was in the finals though, I really wanted to see all 3 of his matchups also TY TvT coulda been cool
By the way, I looked this up on Aligulac yesterday, TY has the highest SC2 TvT winrate in all of KeSPA.
Just wondering about what has Byun actually done to warrant all of this praise and the treatment of him as the second coming of MVP and Boxer in one perfect human being??
On November 15 2015 23:18 RaFox17 wrote: Just wondering about what has Byun actually done to warrant all of this praise and the treatment of him as the second coming of MVP and Boxer in one perfect human being??
He's won about 5 billion online cups since he reappeared from the depths of the Void, including wins against really high level (KeSPA) players. And he just plays really well.
On November 15 2015 23:18 RaFox17 wrote: Just wondering about what has Byun actually done to warrant all of this praise and the treatment of him as the second coming of MVP and Boxer in one perfect human being??
He's won about 5 billion online cups since he reappeared from the depths of the Void, including wins against really high level (KeSPA) players. And he just plays really well.
On November 15 2015 23:18 RaFox17 wrote: Just wondering about what has Byun actually done to warrant all of this praise and the treatment of him as the second coming of MVP and Boxer in one perfect human being??
He's won about 5 billion online cups since he reappeared from the depths of the Void, including wins against really high level (KeSPA) players. And he just plays really well.
On November 15 2015 23:18 RaFox17 wrote: Just wondering about what has Byun actually done to warrant all of this praise and the treatment of him as the second coming of MVP and Boxer in one perfect human being??
He's won about 5 billion online cups since he reappeared from the depths of the Void, including wins against really high level (KeSPA) players. And he just plays really well.
Are they on Lotv and Hots?
Both, yes. Plus obviously his mysterious dis- and reappearance grants him a +7 hype bonus on the internet.
On November 15 2015 23:18 RaFox17 wrote: Just wondering about what has Byun actually done to warrant all of this praise and the treatment of him as the second coming of MVP and Boxer in one perfect human being??
He's won about 5 billion online cups since he reappeared from the depths of the Void, including wins against really high level (KeSPA) players. And he just plays really well.
Are they on Lotv and Hots?
Both, yes. Plus obviously his mysterious dis- and reappearance grants him a +7 hype bonus on the internet.
from a strategy game standpoint (i've played starcraft, and i've tried chess and a few other games) the lotv nydus just disgusts me. but well done by solar i guess! LOL
On November 15 2015 23:30 Liquid`Snute wrote: from a strategy game standpoint (i've played starcraft, and i've tried chess and a few other games) the lotv nydus just disgusts me. but well done by solar i guess! LOL
On November 15 2015 23:30 Liquid`Snute wrote: from a strategy game standpoint (i've played starcraft, and i've tried chess and a few other games) the lotv nydus just disgusts me. but well done by solar i guess! LOL
If it disgusts you it means you have some honor and dignity
I hope solar does this 4 times in a row and gets 4 easy wins. I want this strategy to get as much exposure as possible so it can (hopefully) get fixed.
Solar did nydus builds in beta all the time, at times he nydused ForGG and then right after that Ryung. I feel like this should have had enough exposure by now.
On November 15 2015 23:30 Liquid`Snute wrote: from a strategy game standpoint (i've played starcraft, and i've tried chess and a few other games) the lotv nydus just disgusts me. but well done by solar i guess! LOL
Hey Snute. How's it going over in China?
hi, good lilbow and i play matches tomorrow! we spend a lot of time doing nothing but they're taking great care of us hotel/food wise ~ and being a pedestrian in shanghai traffic is almost as silly as nydus worms :D
On November 15 2015 23:30 Liquid`Snute wrote: from a strategy game standpoint (i've played starcraft, and i've tried chess and a few other games) the lotv nydus just disgusts me. but well done by solar i guess! LOL
Hey Snute. How's it going over in China?
hi, good lilbow and i play matches tomorrow! we spend a lot of time doing nothing but they're taking great care of us hotel/food wise ~ and being a pedestrian in shanghai traffic is almost as silly as nydus worms :D
You and Lilbow are gonna archon, right? Which race will you play? Hope you have a lot of fun
On November 15 2015 23:30 Liquid`Snute wrote: from a strategy game standpoint (i've played starcraft, and i've tried chess and a few other games) the lotv nydus just disgusts me. but well done by solar i guess! LOL
Hey Snute. How's it going over in China?
hi, good lilbow and i play matches tomorrow! we spend a lot of time doing nothing but they're taking great care of us hotel/food wise ~ and being a pedestrian in shanghai traffic is almost as silly as nydus worms :D
kinda sucks how spread out the games are, but I hope you guys enjoy yourself
Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
So many suggestions are out there, like giving it high armor instead, anything is better than invincibility imo.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
So many suggestions are out there, like giving it high armor instead, anything is better than invincibility imo.
Instead of making it invincible, they should make it invisible.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
The idea with that was to lower the opportunity cost aswell as make more it viable for defensive play (to connect ur bases) to be more like in bw??
Atleast that was the argumented by the pros and people in favor of it some like 2 years ago
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
Its purely defensive in brood war and the exact opposite in sc2.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
yep.
i've seen it used like that only like a few times..
I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
nydus canal was a hive tech building that could be placed on your creep, connecting it to another creep (=base, as OL didnt drop creep) Zerg used it to defend far away expansions (most commonly defending 2 different naturals and securing 4 bases with 2 chokes that way)
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
Right. And because of ravagers and stuff there's even more opportunities for Zergs to exploit holes in mech play. Not to mention... nydus still gud.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
nydus canal is integral for zergs once they reach hive tech, basically allowing the zerg to defend their bases with the fact that it cuts down army travel time to nothing.
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
nydus canal was a hive tech building that could be placed on your creep, connecting it to another creep (=base, as OL didnt drop creep) Zerg used it to defend far away expansions (most commonly defending 2 different naturals and securing 4 bases with 2 chokes that way)
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
Isn't the Zerg army generally smaller in HotS mostly because you build drones for the first 4 bases while Terran makes SCVs for the first 3?
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
Completely defensive can only be placed on creep, good for army movement bad for all-ins -Abathur
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
Well of course it's always a bit bigger in terms of supply but in LotV it is also a lot stronger.
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
I think mech might be unplayable. I remember in the dreamhack qualifiers Bunny lost to Cladorhiza with 3/3 cyclone, hellbat, liberator, tank vs 1/1 roach, hydra, liberator, coruptor.
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
I think mech might be unplayable. I remember in the dreamhack qualifiers Bunny lost to Cladorhiza with 3/3 cyclone, hellbat, liberator, tank vs 1/1 roach, hydra, liberator, coruptor.
Dude if you let the Zerg get to 1/1 liberators you done fucked up anyway.
Flash beat Jaedong with mech in their showmatch but I doubt he'll play it that much, doesn't seem great.
On November 16 2015 00:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think just need long range units to counter ravager,siege tanks should do the work
He shut down the first ravager push nicely with siege tanks. Then started building liberators although the counter unit from zerg was already out. Should've just kept building tanks imo.
Zerg is most likely too strong, but still bad decision making from TY imo.
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
soO vs Flash on Foxtrot :D
top 3 marine control also when soO is involved it's not game ending damage unless he has 0 drones left killing 30 ish drones at 8 min means nothing to the great injector
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
I think mech might be unplayable. I remember in the dreamhack qualifiers Bunny lost to Cladorhiza with 3/3 cyclone, hellbat, liberator, tank vs 1/1 roach, hydra, liberator, coruptor.
doesn't help that vehicle and ship weapons are split again
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
Completely defensive can only be placed on creep, good for army movement bad for all-ins -Abathur
one day we'll see it totally destroy players on 4 player maps and it'll be GG. Every zerg will start uising it.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
Completely defensive can only be placed on creep, good for army movement bad for all-ins -Abathur
I remember an offensive game with it, Flash lost it. I think against Shine?
edit: You had to build a hatchery in the enemy main though, haha
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
soO vs Flash on Foxtrot :D
top 3 marine control also when soO is involved it's not game ending damage unless he has 0 drones left killing 30 ish drones at 8 min means nothing to the great injector
but for real, there was that Life vs Taeja game on KSS that was the best game of HotS
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
soO vs Flash on Foxtrot :D
top 3 marine control also when soO is involved it's not game ending damage unless he has 0 drones left killing 30 ish drones at 8 min means nothing to the great injector
but for real, there was that Life vs Taeja game on KSS that was the best game of HotS
On November 16 2015 00:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think just need long range units to counter ravager,siege tanks should do the work
He shut down the first ravager push nicely with siege tanks. Then started building liberators although the counter unit from zerg was already out. Should've just kept building tanks imo.
Zerg is most likely too strong, but still bad decision making from TY imo.
Yah,i really dont know what liberator does but i saw them doing nothing while the zerg army sit in their front.
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
I think mech might be unplayable. I remember in the dreamhack qualifiers Bunny lost to Cladorhiza with 3/3 cyclone, hellbat, liberator, tank vs 1/1 roach, hydra, liberator, coruptor.
doesn't help that vehicle and ship weapons are split again
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
Completely defensive can only be placed on creep, good for army movement bad for all-ins -Abathur
I remember an offensive game with it, Flash lost it. I think against Shine?
edit: You had to build a hatchery in the enemy main though, haha
Yea but that wasnt standard play, also SHINE is literally the Zerg devil
On November 16 2015 00:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think just need long range units to counter ravager,siege tanks should do the work
He shut down the first ravager push nicely with siege tanks. Then started building liberators although the counter unit from zerg was already out. Should've just kept building tanks imo.
Zerg is most likely too strong, but still bad decision making from TY imo.
Yah,i really dont know what liberator does but i saw them doing nothing while the zerg army sit in their front.
Nah liberators are really good, but ravagers hardcounter them pretty hard
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
I think mech might be unplayable. I remember in the dreamhack qualifiers Bunny lost to Cladorhiza with 3/3 cyclone, hellbat, liberator, tank vs 1/1 roach, hydra, liberator, coruptor.
doesn't help that vehicle and ship weapons are split again
On November 16 2015 00:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think just need long range units to counter ravager,siege tanks should do the work
He shut down the first ravager push nicely with siege tanks. Then started building liberators although the counter unit from zerg was already out. Should've just kept building tanks imo.
Zerg is most likely too strong, but still bad decision making from TY imo.
Zerg is kinda silly on the macro side, really. Solar is producing soOfinite amounts of units. He didn't have the macro for that in HotS.
On November 15 2015 23:53 Arvendilin wrote: Why did they never try to just lower the cost of spawning the Nydus Worm(and maybe make the main thing a bit more expensive if needed) instead of this invincibility bullshit? O_o
cause no matter how cheap you made it it was very weak and not able to get up most of the time. I still would've liked to see something different done about it thou
Nydus worms are absolutely horrible by default. It is an allin mechanic, nothing more. We don't need that in the game, so you either redesign it for different purposes or you just remove it
it was used awesomely in bw.
For very different reasons, in sc2 the bw purpose would be a non issue.
how did it work in bw
Completely defensive can only be placed on creep, good for army movement bad for all-ins -Abathur
I remember an offensive game with it, Flash lost it. I think against Shine?
edit: You had to build a hatchery in the enemy main though, haha
Yea but that wasnt standard play, also SHINE is literally the Zerg devil
Yes i know, i just remembered that game now with the nydus talk :D
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
soO vs Flash on Foxtrot :D
top 3 marine control also when soO is involved it's not game ending damage unless he has 0 drones left killing 30 ish drones at 8 min means nothing to the great injector
but for real, there was that Life vs Taeja game on KSS that was the best game of HotS
On November 16 2015 00:04 Jer99 wrote: man what the hell do you do against Zerg?
Watch byun. Standard hots style. mmm. Byun doesn't even use liberators vs ultras. He prefers ghosts.
ByuN is a literal god and even he loses most of his games against Solar though.
He would lose most of his games vs solar in hots so working as intended I suppose :D btw how awful is mech in lotv? I imagine you just insta lose once zerg get's viper broodlord rolling
I think mech might be unplayable. I remember in the dreamhack qualifiers Bunny lost to Cladorhiza with 3/3 cyclone, hellbat, liberator, tank vs 1/1 roach, hydra, liberator, coruptor.
doesn't help that vehicle and ship weapons are split again
On November 16 2015 00:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think just need long range units to counter ravager,siege tanks should do the work
He shut down the first ravager push nicely with siege tanks. Then started building liberators although the counter unit from zerg was already out. Should've just kept building tanks imo.
Zerg is most likely too strong, but still bad decision making from TY imo.
Yah,i really dont know what liberator does but i saw them doing nothing while the zerg army sit in their front.
It picks a cricles and does a lot of single target damage in it and has aoe attack It's a flying thor
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
soO vs Flash on Foxtrot :D
top 3 marine control also when soO is involved it's not game ending damage unless he has 0 drones left killing 30 ish drones at 8 min means nothing to the great injector
but for real, there was that Life vs Taeja game on KSS that was the best game of HotS
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
soO vs Flash on Foxtrot :D
top 3 marine control also when soO is involved it's not game ending damage unless he has 0 drones left killing 30 ish drones at 8 min means nothing to the great injector
but for real, there was that Life vs Taeja game on KSS that was the best game of HotS
soO vs taeja, and Flash vs Bbyong were better.
soO vs Taeja turned into a death animation once Taeja secured his 4th
Life vs Taeja turned into a death animation once Taeja decided to secure his 4th
On November 16 2015 00:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think just need long range units to counter ravager,siege tanks should do the work
He shut down the first ravager push nicely with siege tanks. Then started building liberators although the counter unit from zerg was already out. Should've just kept building tanks imo.
Zerg is most likely too strong, but still bad decision making from TY imo.
Zerg is kinda silly on the macro side, really. Solar is producing soOfinite amounts of units. He didn't have the macro for that in HotS.
Solar had excellent macro in hots. What he lacked compared to soO more in micro and engagements
On November 16 2015 00:11 [sc1f]eonzerg wrote: I think just need long range units to counter ravager,siege tanks should do the work
He shut down the first ravager push nicely with siege tanks. Then started building liberators although the counter unit from zerg was already out. Should've just kept building tanks imo.
Zerg is most likely too strong, but still bad decision making from TY imo.
Zerg is kinda silly on the macro side, really. Solar is producing soOfinite amounts of units. He didn't have the macro for that in HotS.
Yeah zerg economy is sick and their lategame looks too strong. But it's still weird from TY. He had the counter to roach/ravager (Tanks and banshees) and then said "fuck it I will build Liberators now". More medivacs for the bio and more tanks would've done way better.
On November 16 2015 00:28 Deathstar wrote: HAHAHA SLOW OVERLORD DROP
Funniest thing about that was his reaction: Let's save the roaches and load them back in and fly away. Then he realized the Overlord doesn't have a Medivac's speed
I swear even if TY brings it back and makes the series seem close, Solar can rely on the nydus gods for 1 more win. Can't we just get a ling/bane/muta game for once? FFS
On November 16 2015 00:31 Elentos wrote: I swear even if TY brings it back and makes the series seem close, Solar can rely on the nydus gods for 1 more win. Can't we just get a ling/bane/muta game for once? FFS
On November 16 2015 00:31 Ammanas wrote: Does the ravager ability (whatever it's called, the yellow goo dropping from the sky) actually deal friendly fire?
I haven't played properly since WoL but what i'm gleaning from this thread is that zerg can finally take control of the tempo of the midgame and terrans are too used to having that in the bag (and are complaining incessantly about it)
On November 16 2015 00:31 Sif_ wrote: Is there any point in building marauders if the zerg isnt going for banelings? Serious question
They are still good vs stalkers and roaches, don't exaggerate. They still slow your opponent's army too, so they are great at chasing down ravagers etc. I actually ike the marauder change, so they don't hardcounter roaches and stalkers quite as hard, but the ultra armor needs a nerf asap.
Exactly as I thought before the tournament - inviting people that didn't play enough of Lotv will look just sad. It's the easiest 10k that Solar won in his life while losing to Bly this week in bo3.
On November 16 2015 00:43 The_Red_Viper wrote: Mediocre games today. Ravagers still stupid, LOTV still meh. GG Solar though and thank you TB for giving us content!
I want to believe.
If Byun had made it LOTV wouldn't have looked so meh...
On November 16 2015 00:43 Nerchio wrote: Exactly as I thought before the tournament - inviting people that didn't play enough of Lotv will look just sad. It's the easiest 10k that Solar won in his life while losing to Bly this week in bo3.
On November 16 2015 00:43 Nerchio wrote: Exactly as I thought before the tournament - inviting people that didn't play enough of Lotv will look just sad. It's the easiest 10k that Solar won in his life while losing to Bly this week in bo3.
On November 16 2015 00:43 Nerchio wrote: Exactly as I thought before the tournament - inviting people that didn't play enough of Lotv will look just sad. It's the easiest 10k that Solar won in his life while losing to Bly this week in bo3.
On November 16 2015 00:43 Nerchio wrote: Exactly as I thought before the tournament - inviting people that didn't play enough of Lotv will look just sad. It's the easiest 10k that Solar won in his life while losing to Bly this week in bo3.
Reality, Gumiho and ByuN should've been the 3 terrans and it would've looked a lot less onesided.
TY played well enough to actually beat ByuN (as opposed to the other 2 most of the time). I feel like saying someone else should have played in his stead doesn't do him justice.
On November 16 2015 00:45 Jer99 wrote: what happened in the last game? missed it
2 base roach ravager rush which TY never got the scout on and died
i've also had a near impossible time scouting this
TY was close with his reapers
I think because of the 3rd CC it wouldn't have mattered if he scouted it. You could see he reacted well without actually scouting it but everything was too late for the attack.
On November 16 2015 00:43 Nerchio wrote: Exactly as I thought before the tournament - inviting people that didn't play enough of Lotv will look just sad. It's the easiest 10k that Solar won in his life while losing to Bly this week in bo3.
Reality, Gumiho and ByuN should've been the 3 terrans and it would've looked a lot less onesided.
TY played well enough to actually beat ByuN (as opposed to the other 2). I feel like saying someone else should have played in his stead doesn't do him justice.
Well in TvT it just came down to mechanics and learning how to use the new tanks. But strategy wise TY has no idea about non mirror matchups I think. The other guys saw this roach ravager stuff a 100 times while playing tournaments during the beta. Maybe the tournament was just played too early.
The tvt yesterday was still great though and I enjoyed it, so thanks TB and Sandisk!
On November 16 2015 00:42 Elentos wrote: This sucked and it's all on Solar.
?????????????????????????????
it sucked because he played well?
His strategies caused crappy games to happen.
You mean you want him to use bad strategies when playing for 10k?
As if you would.
So you're saying every single LotV strategy that doesn't involve roaches and/or ravagers is bad.
Perhaps what I should have said is, would you use strategies you weren't confident with for 10k?
If Solar thinks roach ravager is going to win, why would he not do it in favour of a harder to play style? The other styles don't have to be 'bad' in terms of being able to win to be bad, they just have to be worse than the style that will win.
To clarify what I mean, a strategy can have a 60% win record vs Terran, but if there is a strategy with a 70% win record the first strategy is perhaps a bad choice.
On November 16 2015 00:42 Elentos wrote: This sucked and it's all on Solar.
?????????????????????????????
it sucked because he played well?
His strategies caused crappy games to happen.
You mean you want him to use bad strategies when playing for 10k?
As if you would.
So you're saying every single LotV strategy that doesn't involve roaches and/or ravagers is bad.
Perhaps what I should have said is, would you use strategies you weren't confident with for 10k?
If Solar thinks roach ravager is going to win, why would he not do it in favour of a harder to play style? The other styles don't have to be 'bad' in terms of being able to win to be bad, they just have to be worse than the style that will win.
To clarify what I mean, a strategy can have a 60% win record vs Terran, but if there is a strategy with a 70% win record the first strategy is perhaps a bad choice.
In that case he should just nydus every game because TY probably has about as much of a clue how to deal with that as any other Terran Solar beats with it.
On November 16 2015 00:42 Elentos wrote: This sucked and it's all on Solar.
?????????????????????????????
it sucked because he played well?
His strategies caused crappy games to happen.
You mean you want him to use bad strategies when playing for 10k?
As if you would.
So you're saying every single LotV strategy that doesn't involve roaches and/or ravagers is bad.
Then Life vs Lilbow was also bad because of Life, according to your logic.
And...? Even if Lilbow responded perfectly to every all-in, would that have made the games good? Doubtful.
Yes it would. I don't understand why people consider games that are not 20min+ bad. I love the intensitity in early game aggression which is why I'm loving LotV so much. The decision making and micro needed for those low eco aggressiv games are immense and much more entertaining to watch then turteling for 30+min and fight one-two fights and game over.
LoTV is definitely more exciting than HoTS, due to the action happening faster although i have a feeling once Blizz swings the nerf bat on a few units, it turn out just like HoTS in the end, dull flat and boring units with a stale meta
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
Im confused. Is it not standard bio TvZ where both sides stay at around equal supply(and that with Zerg having usually more workers) It's not PvZ.
On November 16 2015 00:42 Elentos wrote: This sucked and it's all on Solar.
?????????????????????????????
it sucked because he played well?
His strategies caused crappy games to happen.
You mean you want him to use bad strategies when playing for 10k?
As if you would.
So you're saying every single LotV strategy that doesn't involve roaches and/or ravagers is bad.
Then Life vs Lilbow was also bad because of Life, according to your logic.
And...? Even if Lilbow responded perfectly to every all-in, would that have made the games good? Doubtful.
Yes it would. I don't understand why people consider games that are not 20min+ bad.
And I don't understand why people overinterpret comments on the internet. Oh well. I never said that, but there's a difference between short and intense games and short games where one player is obviously ded. Case in point, game 5. It was 4 minutes long but there was no intensity because TY was obviously gonna lose.
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
Im confused. Is it not standard bio TvZ where both sides stay at around equal supply(and that with Zerg having usually more workers) It's not PvZ.
Zero army scales up more quickly because the units are weaker but cheaper. Once the game goes on long enough Terran had an army supply advantage.
On November 16 2015 00:08 JackBeckman wrote: I don't really know. It seems like in every TvZ game I see the army of the zerg player is almost always bigger than the army of the Terran player, no matter how well the Terran player harasses etc. I know it's too early to say but it feels as if Zerg as a race is a bit too strong right now.
Show me a hots tvz where the zerg army isn't bigger if the terran hasn't done game ending damage
Im confused. Is it not standard bio TvZ where both sides stay at around equal supply(and that with Zerg having usually more workers) It's not PvZ.
Zero army scales up more quickly because the units are weaker but cheaper. Once the game goes on long enough Terran had an army supply advantage.
Hellions and marines which are core in early TvZ are cheapest units in the game (per supply)
On November 16 2015 02:43 Topdoller wrote: LoTV is definitely more exciting than HoTS, due to the action happening faster although i have a feeling once Blizz swings the nerf bat on a few units, it turn out just like HoTS in the end, dull flat and boring units with a stale meta
I think it's quite clear the dev team want extremely powerful units that can allow for large comebacks.
On November 16 2015 09:46 smOOthMayDie wrote: can we get replays??
+1 would be nice to have the replays!
For the umpteenth time, we are not releasing replays. It is absolutely not worth disadvantaging progamers for the few people who actually want to download them.
On November 16 2015 09:46 smOOthMayDie wrote: can we get replays??
+1 would be nice to have the replays!
For the umpteenth time, we are not releasing replays. It is absolutely not worth disadvantaging progamers for the few people who actually want to download them.
Totally respect the pros not wanting to release their replays, but I will respectfully disagree that "few people" download them. Spawning Tool has really solid analytics about people looking at the data extracted from the replays as well as downloading the replays directly.
In anyways, thanks for the hard work and quick effort to run this tournament: it's great to see such high quality content and games happening so quickly in LotV!
On November 16 2015 09:46 smOOthMayDie wrote: can we get replays??
+1 would be nice to have the replays!
For the umpteenth time, we are not releasing replays. It is absolutely not worth disadvantaging progamers for the few people who actually want to download them.
Totally respect the pros not wanting to release their replays, but I will respectfully disagree that "few people" download them. Spawning Tool has really solid analytics about people looking at the data extracted from the replays as well as downloading the replays directly.
In anyways, thanks for the hard work and quick effort to run this tournament: it's great to see such high quality content and games happening so quickly in LotV!
I have my own metrics as to how many people download SHOUTcraft replays and the answer is nowhere near enough justifying making the pros uncomfortable.
It's just that it's really difficult to find pro replays and build orders so short after release of the expansion. There's probably more demand than there was for earlier shoutcraft tournaments.
On November 17 2015 14:08 Varest wrote: It's just that it's really difficult to find pro replays and build orders so short after release of the expansion. There's probably more demand than there was for earlier shoutcraft tournaments.
There's a reason for that, none of them want to give them out when there are a couple of big events very soon. Why give away your early advantage?
On November 16 2015 09:46 smOOthMayDie wrote: can we get replays??
+1 would be nice to have the replays!
For the umpteenth time, we are not releasing replays. It is absolutely not worth disadvantaging progamers for the few people who actually want to download them.
Totally respect the pros not wanting to release their replays, but I will respectfully disagree that "few people" download them. Spawning Tool has really solid analytics about people looking at the data extracted from the replays as well as downloading the replays directly.
In anyways, thanks for the hard work and quick effort to run this tournament: it's great to see such high quality content and games happening so quickly in LotV!
I have my own metrics as to how many people download SHOUTcraft replays and the answer is nowhere near enough justifying making the pros uncomfortable.
Fair enough. Well, if you ever run a tournament in the future where you are comfortable releasing replay packs and want to make sure they get in front of as many people as possible, you know where you find us, and we would be happy to spread the shoutcraft brand that way!
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l9s0Xxa.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/c/c6/Uk.png)
SHOUTcraft 
O'Gaming![[image loading]](http://s.gr-assets.com/assets/icons/twitter_icon-7d4a7be5917c6c8e687413669d687b1c.jpg){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6wl40.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/561.jpg)
VS ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/951.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1WiQGNY.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/8rmIIPJ.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4797.jpg)
VS ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/575.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/O3RPPD5.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4pMCUvn.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
Bomber <Central Protocol> 
Solar <Prion Terraces> ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l5YZ8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3wcCS.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WdLE8.png)
also TY TvT coulda been cool
