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On June 29 2015 07:22 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:20 plotspot wrote:
Congrats Hydra, might be the best Zerg right now. In wcs, sure. Overall? No way I wouldn't say he's far off though, I mean the Korean Zergs aren't very impressive right now. Byul is probably better, but I'd say Hydra is top 5 for sure. Hard to say anyway, we will see at Blizzcon maybe.
you can't compare the korean zergs who do exceptionally well in gsl and ssl against top notch koreans to hydra stomping a bunch of foreigners.
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No Liquid player in the final, and a Korean winner.
Today was a good day.
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United States97274 Posts
On June 29 2015 07:25 Wintex wrote:
i am nostradamus
wow dude you totally predicted the champion that 90% of TL picked. How did you manage to pull it off?
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On June 29 2015 07:32 Serimek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:22 HolydaKing wrote:On June 29 2015 07:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:20 plotspot wrote:
Congrats Hydra, might be the best Zerg right now. In wcs, sure. Overall? No way I wouldn't say he's far off though, I mean the Korean Zergs aren't very impressive right now. Byul is probably better, but I'd say Hydra is top 5 for sure. Hard to say anyway, we will see at Blizzcon maybe. Top 5? Maybe, but even there it's pretty hard to say tbh I think it's debatable that Hydra is a strong enough Zerg to have decent results in GSL or StarLeague (ro16, ro8 ?), which put him easily in the same batch of players as ByuL, Curious, Life or Rogue. So top 5 quite plausible, but more 5th than 1st. Hydra is the only player I could being able to play decently in Korea from this WCS season to be honest. With Polt semi-retired, WCS is weaker than ever.
To reach his Gfinity finals, Hydra beat players like FanTaSy, Rogue or sOs so I'd say he's on par with quite a lot of Proleague players.
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On June 29 2015 07:36 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:32 Serimek wrote:On June 29 2015 07:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:22 HolydaKing wrote:On June 29 2015 07:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:20 plotspot wrote:
Congrats Hydra, might be the best Zerg right now. In wcs, sure. Overall? No way I wouldn't say he's far off though, I mean the Korean Zergs aren't very impressive right now. Byul is probably better, but I'd say Hydra is top 5 for sure. Hard to say anyway, we will see at Blizzcon maybe. Top 5? Maybe, but even there it's pretty hard to say tbh I think it's debatable that Hydra is a strong enough Zerg to have decent results in GSL or StarLeague (ro16, ro8 ?), which put him easily in the same batch of players as ByuL, Curious, Life or Rogue. So top 5 quite plausible, but more 5th than 1st. Hydra is the only player I could being able to play decently in Korea from this WCS season to be honest. With Polt semi-retired, WCS is weaker than ever. To reach his Gfinity finals, Hydra beat players like FanTaSy, Rogue or sOs so I'd say he's on par with quite a lot of Proleague players.
He was CJ's core player in Proleague before they accused him and effOrt of matchfixing and bought ByuL.
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On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless.
I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system.
Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene.
Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories.
Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting
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started watching through the broadcast late so i just finished watching the final :D
if hydra had lost that game 2 on echo then protoss would have had to be removed from the game lol
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wow, totally called it, Hydra was the obvious champion here
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On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting
Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won.
We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh
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On June 29 2015 07:27 Supter wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:24 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 07:23 sharkie wrote:
Beating any Korean in eliminations is remarkable regardless of form or matchup since foreigners very rarely do that that's the dumbest thing I read today and I also saw my Aligulac ranking. I realized i spent way too much time in this thread today since I understood that reference.
You can never spend too much time in a LR thread.
Especially when it has a PASSIONBOARD.
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On June 29 2015 07:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won. We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh
Polt disagrees with you
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On June 29 2015 07:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won. We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh
Don't get me wrong. I think that having good results outside of the WCS tournaments is important and should be rewarded. But the WCS system should first and foremost reward good play in the WCS. But while I think that's true if you just can't cut it in your WCS region you shouldn't be at Blizzcon. While I'd never argue that Zest is a bad player or a player worse than Bunny he will very likely attend Blizzcon almost exclusively because of a nonWCS tournament versus Bunny who does amazingly well in WCS.
Players like Showtime and MMA are pretty fucked because they both got a semifinals and then fell off. I'm not saying the system should reward something like that, but if the WCS doesn't reward consistency in the WCS more so than it does affiliated tournaments then why even have the system?
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On June 29 2015 07:39 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:36 Boucot wrote:On June 29 2015 07:32 Serimek wrote:On June 29 2015 07:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:22 HolydaKing wrote:On June 29 2015 07:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:20 plotspot wrote:
Congrats Hydra, might be the best Zerg right now. In wcs, sure. Overall? No way I wouldn't say he's far off though, I mean the Korean Zergs aren't very impressive right now. Byul is probably better, but I'd say Hydra is top 5 for sure. Hard to say anyway, we will see at Blizzcon maybe. Top 5? Maybe, but even there it's pretty hard to say tbh I think it's debatable that Hydra is a strong enough Zerg to have decent results in GSL or StarLeague (ro16, ro8 ?), which put him easily in the same batch of players as ByuL, Curious, Life or Rogue. So top 5 quite plausible, but more 5th than 1st. Hydra is the only player I could being able to play decently in Korea from this WCS season to be honest. With Polt semi-retired, WCS is weaker than ever. To reach his Gfinity finals, Hydra beat players like FanTaSy, Rogue or sOs so I'd say he's on par with quite a lot of Proleague players. He was CJ's core player in Proleague before they accused him and effOrt of matchfixing and bought ByuL.
His 10-16 record was mediocre though
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honestly i think the current system works fine. if we're being honest, foreigners obviously get more points and more placement than they would "deserve" if we're talking about pure head to head skill compared with koreans. but obviously international presence and the regions interacting is important as well, so there has to be a balance.
any time you try to find that balance it's not going to be perfect, there probably ISN'T a perfect system. but the season finals had plenty of foreigners in RO8, one in the final, and with good performances one or two foreigners might squeak into blizzcon. i think this works and is fine. i don't think criticizing the minutiae of wcs vs non-wcs is productive, because honestly people who follow this game follow all the major tournaments, there's no confusion about who the players are and what the big events are
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On June 29 2015 08:03 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:39 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 07:36 Boucot wrote:On June 29 2015 07:32 Serimek wrote:On June 29 2015 07:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:22 HolydaKing wrote:On June 29 2015 07:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:20 plotspot wrote:
Congrats Hydra, might be the best Zerg right now. In wcs, sure. Overall? No way I wouldn't say he's far off though, I mean the Korean Zergs aren't very impressive right now. Byul is probably better, but I'd say Hydra is top 5 for sure. Hard to say anyway, we will see at Blizzcon maybe. Top 5? Maybe, but even there it's pretty hard to say tbh I think it's debatable that Hydra is a strong enough Zerg to have decent results in GSL or StarLeague (ro16, ro8 ?), which put him easily in the same batch of players as ByuL, Curious, Life or Rogue. So top 5 quite plausible, but more 5th than 1st. Hydra is the only player I could being able to play decently in Korea from this WCS season to be honest. With Polt semi-retired, WCS is weaker than ever. To reach his Gfinity finals, Hydra beat players like FanTaSy, Rogue or sOs so I'd say he's on par with quite a lot of Proleague players. He was CJ's core player in Proleague before they accused him and effOrt of matchfixing and bought ByuL. His 10-16 record was mediocre though
I mean they had a reason to accuse him.
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On June 29 2015 08:00 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won. We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh Don't get me wrong. I think that having good results outside of the WCS tournaments is important and should be rewarded. But the WCS system should first and foremost reward good play in the WCS. But while I think that's true if you just can't cut it in your WCS region you shouldn't be at Blizzcon. While I'd never argue that Zest is a bad player or a player worse than Bunny he will very likely attend Blizzcon almost exclusively because of a nonWCS tournament versus Bunny who does amazingly well in WCS. Players like Showtime and MMA are pretty fucked because they both got a semifinals and then fell off. I'm not saying the system should reward something like that, but if the WCS doesn't reward consistency in the WCS more so than it does affiliated tournaments then why even have the system?
To be fair Zest won so many points because Katowice was really stacked (Tier 1 tournament), way more than the actual WCS. I think that the double use of WCS (imo WCS [tournament] shoulda been called UWCS) is source of confusion, but the WCS system rewards consistency through the whole WCS system, not just WCS [tournament]. In other words, the points that a Korean gets by making Ro8 GSL and Ro16 SSL, a foreigner should get them by making Ro8 WCS and two or three Ro8/16 at DH/Gfinity/IEM/etc. I think that's the spirit of the WCS system.
Now this system suffers from some issues because (a) KR Koreans travel to foreign tournaments too and (b) there are less WCS-affiliated foreign events than we could expect (less DH, no RedBull events, no HSC).
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On June 29 2015 08:13 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 08:00 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won. We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh Don't get me wrong. I think that having good results outside of the WCS tournaments is important and should be rewarded. But the WCS system should first and foremost reward good play in the WCS. But while I think that's true if you just can't cut it in your WCS region you shouldn't be at Blizzcon. While I'd never argue that Zest is a bad player or a player worse than Bunny he will very likely attend Blizzcon almost exclusively because of a nonWCS tournament versus Bunny who does amazingly well in WCS. Players like Showtime and MMA are pretty fucked because they both got a semifinals and then fell off. I'm not saying the system should reward something like that, but if the WCS doesn't reward consistency in the WCS more so than it does affiliated tournaments then why even have the system? To be fair Zest won so many points because Katowice was really stacked (Tier 1 tournament), way more than the actual WCS. I think that the double use of WCS (imo WCS [tournament] shoulda been called UWCS) is source of confusion, but the WCS system rewards consistency through the whole WCS system, not just WCS [tournament]. In other words, the points that a Korean gets by making Ro8 GSL and Ro16 SSL, a foreigner should get them by making Ro8 WCS and two or three Ro8/16 at DH/Gfinity/IEM/etc. I think that's the spirit of the WCS system. Now this system suffers from some issues because (a) KR Koreans travel to foreign tournaments too and (b) there are less WCS-affiliated foreign events than we could expect (less DH, no RedBull events, no HSC).
I think WCS system should awards additional points relative to beaten opponents' WCS points. Basically make them bounty hunt.
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On June 29 2015 08:13 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 08:03 OtherWorld wrote:On June 29 2015 07:39 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 07:36 Boucot wrote:On June 29 2015 07:32 Serimek wrote:On June 29 2015 07:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:22 HolydaKing wrote:On June 29 2015 07:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:20 plotspot wrote:
Congrats Hydra, might be the best Zerg right now. In wcs, sure. Overall? No way I wouldn't say he's far off though, I mean the Korean Zergs aren't very impressive right now. Byul is probably better, but I'd say Hydra is top 5 for sure. Hard to say anyway, we will see at Blizzcon maybe. Top 5? Maybe, but even there it's pretty hard to say tbh I think it's debatable that Hydra is a strong enough Zerg to have decent results in GSL or StarLeague (ro16, ro8 ?), which put him easily in the same batch of players as ByuL, Curious, Life or Rogue. So top 5 quite plausible, but more 5th than 1st. Hydra is the only player I could being able to play decently in Korea from this WCS season to be honest. With Polt semi-retired, WCS is weaker than ever. To reach his Gfinity finals, Hydra beat players like FanTaSy, Rogue or sOs so I'd say he's on par with quite a lot of Proleague players. He was CJ's core player in Proleague before they accused him and effOrt of matchfixing and bought ByuL. His 10-16 record was mediocre though I mean they had a reason to accuse him.
Honestly, looking back at their WR in 2014 and with the perspective given by the matchfixing scandals of 2015, while Coach Park's accusations are not acceptable without adequate proof that we don't know of, they are understandable.
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On June 29 2015 08:15 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 08:13 OtherWorld wrote:On June 29 2015 08:00 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
[quote]
Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won. We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh Don't get me wrong. I think that having good results outside of the WCS tournaments is important and should be rewarded. But the WCS system should first and foremost reward good play in the WCS. But while I think that's true if you just can't cut it in your WCS region you shouldn't be at Blizzcon. While I'd never argue that Zest is a bad player or a player worse than Bunny he will very likely attend Blizzcon almost exclusively because of a nonWCS tournament versus Bunny who does amazingly well in WCS. Players like Showtime and MMA are pretty fucked because they both got a semifinals and then fell off. I'm not saying the system should reward something like that, but if the WCS doesn't reward consistency in the WCS more so than it does affiliated tournaments then why even have the system? To be fair Zest won so many points because Katowice was really stacked (Tier 1 tournament), way more than the actual WCS. I think that the double use of WCS (imo WCS [tournament] shoulda been called UWCS) is source of confusion, but the WCS system rewards consistency through the whole WCS system, not just WCS [tournament]. In other words, the points that a Korean gets by making Ro8 GSL and Ro16 SSL, a foreigner should get them by making Ro8 WCS and two or three Ro8/16 at DH/Gfinity/IEM/etc. I think that's the spirit of the WCS system. Now this system suffers from some issues because (a) KR Koreans travel to foreign tournaments too and (b) there are less WCS-affiliated foreign events than we could expect (less DH, no RedBull events, no HSC). I think WCS system should awards additional points relative to beaten opponents' WCS points. Basically make them bounty hunt.
Hmm that's interesting, although I'm too tired to think about how it'd work out in practice.
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