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On June 29 2015 08:15 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 08:13 OtherWorld wrote:On June 29 2015 08:00 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
[quote]
Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won. We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh Don't get me wrong. I think that having good results outside of the WCS tournaments is important and should be rewarded. But the WCS system should first and foremost reward good play in the WCS. But while I think that's true if you just can't cut it in your WCS region you shouldn't be at Blizzcon. While I'd never argue that Zest is a bad player or a player worse than Bunny he will very likely attend Blizzcon almost exclusively because of a nonWCS tournament versus Bunny who does amazingly well in WCS. Players like Showtime and MMA are pretty fucked because they both got a semifinals and then fell off. I'm not saying the system should reward something like that, but if the WCS doesn't reward consistency in the WCS more so than it does affiliated tournaments then why even have the system? To be fair Zest won so many points because Katowice was really stacked (Tier 1 tournament), way more than the actual WCS. I think that the double use of WCS (imo WCS [tournament] shoulda been called UWCS) is source of confusion, but the WCS system rewards consistency through the whole WCS system, not just WCS [tournament]. In other words, the points that a Korean gets by making Ro8 GSL and Ro16 SSL, a foreigner should get them by making Ro8 WCS and two or three Ro8/16 at DH/Gfinity/IEM/etc. I think that's the spirit of the WCS system. Now this system suffers from some issues because (a) KR Koreans travel to foreign tournaments too and (b) there are less WCS-affiliated foreign events than we could expect (less DH, no RedBull events, no HSC). I think WCS system should awards additional points relative to beaten opponents' WCS points. Basically make them bounty hunt.
lol that'd be fun but no way it ever happens
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On June 29 2015 08:13 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 08:00 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:51 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting Well the wcs system as a whole also includes weekend tournaments like IEM and Dreamhack. Look at Zest for example, 1.5k of his wcs points come from the IEM he won. We could argue if this is a good thing (i think it is), but having good results ONLY in the main wcs tournaments just doesn't cut it tbh Don't get me wrong. I think that having good results outside of the WCS tournaments is important and should be rewarded. But the WCS system should first and foremost reward good play in the WCS. But while I think that's true if you just can't cut it in your WCS region you shouldn't be at Blizzcon. While I'd never argue that Zest is a bad player or a player worse than Bunny he will very likely attend Blizzcon almost exclusively because of a nonWCS tournament versus Bunny who does amazingly well in WCS. Players like Showtime and MMA are pretty fucked because they both got a semifinals and then fell off. I'm not saying the system should reward something like that, but if the WCS doesn't reward consistency in the WCS more so than it does affiliated tournaments then why even have the system? To be fair Zest won so many points because Katowice was really stacked (Tier 1 tournament), way more than the actual WCS. I think that the double use of WCS (imo WCS [tournament] shoulda been called UWCS) is source of confusion, but the WCS system rewards consistency through the whole WCS system, not just WCS [tournament]. In other words, the points that a Korean gets by making Ro8 GSL and Ro16 SSL, a foreigner should get them by making Ro8 WCS and two or three Ro8/16 at DH/Gfinity/IEM/etc. I think that's the spirit of the WCS system. Now this system suffers from some issues because (a) KR Koreans travel to foreign tournaments too and (b) there are less WCS-affiliated foreign events than we could expect (less DH, no RedBull events, no HSC).
That's also not happening because of how re qualification into the league works. Don't win WCS? You get guaranteed 50 points. Come in top 8 of GSL? Guaranteed Code S points. I think that's where a lot of the problem lies. You can get instantly fucked over by not winning the entire region.
IMO they should seed the champion of each tournament into Blizzcon (as, if you're not pigbaby, they already unofficially have been for the past few years), turn code A/SSL Challenge back into either the group format or tournament format + up/down, make WCS [tournament] challenger whatever code A is format wise and say top 8/4 of GSL/WCS/SSL are all seeded into the next season. Make WCS (GSL/WCS/SSL) worth more points to reward consistency in WCS [tournaments] and keep all the residency requirements as is.
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On June 29 2015 07:39 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 07:33 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:26 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:15 D-light wrote:On June 29 2015 07:14 chipmonklord17 wrote:On June 29 2015 07:12 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On June 29 2015 07:11 chipmonklord17 wrote:
In all seriousness does this mean we could actually get TWO nonkoreans at Blizzcon? Bunny and Lilbow will likely go to all of the events left that give points and are 2 of the best players in WCS Or zero. I sincerely hope after 2 ro4 finishes at least bunny makes it in. That would be so ridiculous if he didn't Sometimes being the top foreigner isn't enough though. Its not about whether he's a foreigner or not its about consistently being at the top of your region. For example, Bunny has had equal results in WCS as Stats has in GSL/SSL and far better results than Fantasy, Rogue, Dark, and Zest yet is just barely in the top 16. It's really about how you look at it though: - Do you think being the best in your region should give you automatically a spot at blizzcon even if your region is WAY worse than other regions competing for spots. - Or do you think Blizzcon should be for the best 16 players of the year. I personally don't give a damn about foreigners being at blizzcon if they don't have any chance there regardless. I don't care about them being at blizzcon either (although I'd enjoy it) but players who do well in the WCS (read WCS/GSL/SSL) should be rewarded with WCS points regardless of region. The fact that Bunny is performing in the WCS better than all of the players I've named yet he's barely in BC contention shows a flaw in the system. Lets not forget that the Korean players have two tournaments a season meaning they have twice the access to points. And to stay in either's premier league, and continue gaining meaningful amounts of WCS points requires top 8 or top 4 compared to just the winner. That's one of the real flaws in my opinion. The system doesn't promote or distinguish consistency in the non Korean regions while rewarding it in the Korean scene. Don't get me wrong I think that Korea should have more leagues because they're better players but the difference between the GSL/SSL and WCS are stupid and don't reward actually being consistent in the WCS (WCS/SSL/GSL) outside of victories. Also why on earth is the non Korean tournament called the WCS AND the group of them together called the WCS. Its really annoying while ranting
soO was 2nd in all 3 GSLs last year and barely made it in. He had to go to Dreamhack to cement his place. Foreigners do have better opportunities to get points on all the IEMs, Dreamhacks, Red Bulls and Gfinities of the world. That's why the system was changed to what it is now. Two semifinals in WCS is nothing special to guarantee a seed in the finals.
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Dont worry guys, we still have a long ways to go so that we can get some koreans to push bunny out of the top 16.
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Here is your top 16 players atm with only points from wcs/gsl/ssl. Enjoy!!!
1. Life 3900
2. Maru 3750
3. Dream 3550
4. Hydra 3350
5. Polt 2950
6. herO 2950
7. Classic 2650
8. Rain 2450
9. PartinG 2350
10. Stats 2100
11. ByuL 2000
12. Rogue 2000
13. Bunny 1850
14. Lilbow 1350
15. TLO 1250
16. Dear 1200
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On June 29 2015 09:10 SNSeigifried wrote:
Here is your top 16 players atm with only points from wcs/gsl/ssl. Enjoy!!!
1. Life 3900
2. Maru 3750
3. Dream 3550
4. Hydra 3350
5. Polt 2950
6. herO 2950
7. Classic 2650
8. Rain 2450
9. PartinG 2350
10. Stats 2100
11. ByuL 2000
12. Rogue 2000
13. Bunny 1850
14. Lilbow 1350
15. TLO 1250
16. Dear 1200
TLO vs Maru would be interesting, for sure.
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United States97276 Posts
On June 29 2015 09:19 Boucot wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 09:10 SNSeigifried wrote:
Here is your top 16 players atm with only points from wcs/gsl/ssl. Enjoy!!!
1. Life 3900
2. Maru 3750
3. Dream 3550
4. Hydra 3350
5. Polt 2950
6. herO 2950
7. Classic 2650
8. Rain 2450
9. PartinG 2350
10. Stats 2100
11. ByuL 2000
12. Rogue 2000
13. Bunny 1850
14. Lilbow 1350
15. TLO 1250
16. Dear 1200
TLO vs Maru would be interesting, for sure.
We could see how creative Maru is with his cheese
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On June 29 2015 09:10 SNSeigifried wrote:
Here is your top 16 players atm with only points from wcs/gsl/ssl. Enjoy!!!
1. Life 3900
2. Maru 3750
3. Dream 3550
4. Hydra 3350
5. Polt 2950
6. herO 2950
7. Classic 2650
8. Rain 2450
9. PartinG 2350
10. Stats 2100
11. ByuL 2000
12. Rogue 2000
13. Bunny 1850
14. Lilbow 1350
15. TLO 1250
16. Dear 1200
Bunny still can't avoid Hydra hahaha
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On June 29 2015 09:10 SNSeigifried wrote:
Here is your top 16 players atm with only points from wcs/gsl/ssl. Enjoy!!!
1. Life 3900
2. Maru 3750
3. Dream 3550
4. Hydra 3350
5. Polt 2950
6. herO 2950
7. Classic 2650
8. Rain 2450
9. PartinG 2350
10. Stats 2100
11. ByuL 2000
12. Rogue 2000
13. Bunny 1850
14. Lilbow 1350
15. TLO 1250
16. Dear 1200
3 foreigners? Pls
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On June 29 2015 09:10 SNSeigifried wrote:
Here is your top 16 players atm with only points from wcs/gsl/ssl. Enjoy!!!
1. Life 3900
2. Maru 3750
3. Dream 3550
4. Hydra 3350
5. Polt 2950
6. herO 2950
7. Classic 2650
8. Rain 2450
9. PartinG 2350
10. Stats 2100
11. ByuL 2000
12. Rogue 2000
13. Bunny 1850
14. Lilbow 1350
15. TLO 1250
16. Dear 1200
WCS system is so flawed still... No way should any foreigner be in the top 16 aside from Polt and Hydra. But you guys said Polt played like Prime so that isn't a good sign. Guess he'll need to go back to Korea to actually stand a chance against good Koreans?
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Life is #1? Polt is above herO? TLO is above Dear?
What is this I don't even--
I agree. The WCS system is really flawed.
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On June 29 2015 12:07 geokilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 09:10 SNSeigifried wrote:
Here is your top 16 players atm with only points from wcs/gsl/ssl. Enjoy!!!
1. Life 3900
2. Maru 3750
3. Dream 3550
4. Hydra 3350
5. Polt 2950
6. herO 2950
7. Classic 2650
8. Rain 2450
9. PartinG 2350
10. Stats 2100
11. ByuL 2000
12. Rogue 2000
13. Bunny 1850
14. Lilbow 1350
15. TLO 1250
16. Dear 1200
WCS system is so flawed still... No way should any foreigner be in the top 16 aside from Polt and Hydra. But you guys said Polt played like Prime so that isn't a good sign. Guess he'll need to go back to Korea to actually stand a chance against good Koreans?
Yeah Polt needs to go back to Korea before he can compete with Koreans. Because he hasn't been in America for years and beating good Koreans the whole time.
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On June 29 2015 12:13 usopsama wrote:
Life is #1? Polt is above herO? TLO is above Dear?
What is this I don't even--
I agree. The WCS system is really flawed.
People seem to forget life won a GSL literally 3 months ago.
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Times like this, it's good to look at the positives.
-Three foreigner-vs-Korean sets were won by foreigners (all of them convincingly), and one foreigner made the finals. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.
-Bunny is currently in the Top 16, and there are 3 foreigners in the top 25.
-ROOT finally has a championship they can be proud of. That is an organization that absolutely deserves it.
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Thailand4189 Posts
On June 29 2015 12:13 usopsama wrote:
Life is #1? Polt is above herO? TLO is above Dear?
What is this I don't even--
I agree. The WCS system is really flawed.
Life just won GSL...
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United States97276 Posts
On June 29 2015 13:35 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 12:13 usopsama wrote:
Life is #1? Polt is above herO? TLO is above Dear?
What is this I don't even--
I agree. The WCS system is really flawed. Life just won GSL...
yeah but he's not a former BW pro so usopsama doesn't respect him
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On June 29 2015 08:16 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 08:13 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 08:03 OtherWorld wrote:On June 29 2015 07:39 Ej_ wrote:On June 29 2015 07:36 Boucot wrote:On June 29 2015 07:32 Serimek wrote:On June 29 2015 07:24 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:22 HolydaKing wrote:On June 29 2015 07:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:On June 29 2015 07:20 plotspot wrote:
Congrats Hydra, might be the best Zerg right now. In wcs, sure. Overall? No way I wouldn't say he's far off though, I mean the Korean Zergs aren't very impressive right now. Byul is probably better, but I'd say Hydra is top 5 for sure. Hard to say anyway, we will see at Blizzcon maybe. Top 5? Maybe, but even there it's pretty hard to say tbh I think it's debatable that Hydra is a strong enough Zerg to have decent results in GSL or StarLeague (ro16, ro8 ?), which put him easily in the same batch of players as ByuL, Curious, Life or Rogue. So top 5 quite plausible, but more 5th than 1st. Hydra is the only player I could being able to play decently in Korea from this WCS season to be honest. With Polt semi-retired, WCS is weaker than ever. To reach his Gfinity finals, Hydra beat players like FanTaSy, Rogue or sOs so I'd say he's on par with quite a lot of Proleague players. He was CJ's core player in Proleague before they accused him and effOrt of matchfixing and bought ByuL. His 10-16 record was mediocre though I mean they had a reason to accuse him. Honestly, looking back at their WR in 2014 and with the perspective given by the matchfixing scandals of 2015, while Coach Park's accusations are not acceptable without adequate proof that we don't know of, they are understandable.
Oh gosh. I didn't know Hydra and effOrt left in such controversial fashion. What were CJ's allegations and evidence? Any link or thread on this?
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On June 29 2015 13:38 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2015 13:35 Wildmoon wrote:On June 29 2015 12:13 usopsama wrote:
Life is #1? Polt is above herO? TLO is above Dear?
What is this I don't even--
I agree. The WCS system is really flawed. Life just won GSL... yeah but he's not a former BW pro so usopsama doesn't respect him
You know me so well, I am touched.
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On June 29 2015 13:44 RKC wrote:
Oh gosh. I didn't know Hydra and effOrt left in such controversial fashion. What were CJ's allegations and evidence? Any link or thread on this?
+ Show Spoiler +On January 19 2015 05:45 lemmata wrote:Part 2:  EffOrt says that his second retirement (SC2) was because he was unjustly suspected of match-fixing. He was apparently doing poorly against SC2 Protoss. The coaching staff and the scrubs on the team started suspecting both EffOrt and Hydra of match-fixing. EffOrt says they denied suspecting him but he knew what they were saying behind his back. It was serious enough that our man  XellOs, retired from pro-gaming but still a CJ employee at the time, vigorously came to their defense. EffOrt says that his mother's health played a role, but the main reason that he retired was because he couldn't stand being suspected of match-fixing like that. EffOrt said that he was absolutely furious at Coach Park (formerly of SKT) for doing this to him and said that Coach Park shouldn't touch him if he had any sense. Apparently, XellOs immediately quit his job at CJ when EffOrt retired and Hydra left. The day after this broadcast, a sober EffOrt said that he was embarrassed to have shown himself getting so drunk, but that he doesn't take back anything he said about Coach Park. EffOrt said that Coach Park is an SOB and that he would stab him to death if he could.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/brood-war/466030-afreeca-feed?page=21
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I saw Mana posting on his fb page that WCS will be in Poland. Any source on this? Where i can read some details?
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EPT
