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[Code S] Grand Finals Season 1 2015 - Page 115

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Dreamer.T
Profile Joined December 2009
United States3584 Posts
March 22 2015 11:18 GMT
#2281
On March 22 2015 19:27 bo1b wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 19:24 ETisME wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:17 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:15 ETisME wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.

His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless.

mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.


Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short.

I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster.

"Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was.


Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered.

Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee.
And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech.
he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance
he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had

No "aura of invincibility" has ever looked as staggering as a person who failed to defeat someone else, you're completely right.

On March 22 2015 19:16 Inflicted wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.

His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless.

mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.


Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short.

I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster.

"Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was.


Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered.

What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on...


Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will".

Which is very different to "innovation is just going to win" until he didn't.

he was good enough to get into GSL finals against the top performer of the "OP" race at the time and he was still top performing and almost took out life. He was the most consistent top player ignoring the race balance.
Unlike innovation who only looked strong during the peak of terran

Which is still irrelevant to the discussion lol. I'm not debating who was the most successful.


Ok, I'm seeing what you're referring to. Though I personally still think that Mvp prime displayed the most dominant games, I nevertheless agree that Innovation's early HotS hellbat TVZ reign of terror was one of the most dominant displays of raw skill. You can argue that maybe one of his games against zerg opponents was the most lop-sided beat-down in the history of sc2. It just didn't last long compared to Mvp's extended period of dominance.
Forever the best, IMMvp <3
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55591 Posts
March 22 2015 11:21 GMT
#2282
On March 22 2015 20:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Behind every great Starcraft BO7 series between 2 great players is a great game designer.

Congratz to Life, Parting

and DAVID KIM ! ! !

Yes, the three biggest tournaments of the year so far have been won by a Protoss, a Terran and a Zerg. Clearly, David Kim succeeded.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
PepsiMaxxxx
Profile Joined October 2012
Sweden5452 Posts
March 22 2015 11:22 GMT
#2283
I dunno what I've done to deserve this but my three favorite players of each race won a championship each during the span of a week.
Great times to be alive!
bo1b
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Australia12814 Posts
March 22 2015 11:23 GMT
#2284
On March 22 2015 20:18 Dreamer.T wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 19:27 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:24 ETisME wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:17 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:15 ETisME wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.

His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless.

mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.


Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short.

I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster.

"Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was.


Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered.

Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee.
And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech.
he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance
he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had

No "aura of invincibility" has ever looked as staggering as a person who failed to defeat someone else, you're completely right.

On March 22 2015 19:16 Inflicted wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:
[quote]
mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.


Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short.

I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster.

"Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was.


Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered.

What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on...


Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will".

Which is very different to "innovation is just going to win" until he didn't.

he was good enough to get into GSL finals against the top performer of the "OP" race at the time and he was still top performing and almost took out life. He was the most consistent top player ignoring the race balance.
Unlike innovation who only looked strong during the peak of terran

Which is still irrelevant to the discussion lol. I'm not debating who was the most successful.


Ok, I'm seeing what you're referring to. Though I personally still think that Mvp prime displayed the most dominant games, I nevertheless agree that Innovation's early HotS hellbat TVZ reign of terror was one of the most dominant displays of raw skill. You can argue that maybe one of his games against zerg opponents was the most lop-sided beat-down in the history of sc2. It just didn't last long compared to Mvp's extended period of dominance.

From release of hots until his match vs drg is a pretty long time tbh. It wasn't hellbat tvz that was his forte anyway, it was 4m.
REyeM
Profile Joined August 2014
2674 Posts
March 22 2015 11:25 GMT
#2285
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw
S4 Arrows, never forget. RIP Woongjin Stars.
XiaoJoyce-
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
China2908 Posts
March 22 2015 11:29 GMT
#2286
Life Defeat both Flash and Parting . .
Pew! Pew! Chitty Chitty Bang Bang!
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
March 22 2015 11:30 GMT
#2287
On March 22 2015 20:25 REyeM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw


Not in sc2. PartinG is a Nestea Award recipient and probably the 3rd best Protoss of all-time. He's been overdue for a final appearance if anything.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
Thrillz
Profile Joined May 2012
4313 Posts
March 22 2015 11:31 GMT
#2288
Man I'm always sad when I realize that the scariest peak also happened to be the shortest dammit bogus what a waste...and then I wonder what if....like if stx situation wasn't so bad..maybe we'll see someone burst onto lotv and destroy everyone.....
REyeM
Profile Joined August 2014
2674 Posts
March 22 2015 11:33 GMT
#2289
On March 22 2015 20:30 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:25 REyeM wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw


Not in sc2. PartinG is a Nestea Award recipient and probably the 3rd best Protoss of all-time. He's been overdue for a final appearance if anything.


For someone like me who started watching sc2 in late 2013, he is
S4 Arrows, never forget. RIP Woongjin Stars.
KingAlphard
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Italy1705 Posts
March 22 2015 11:36 GMT
#2290
On March 22 2015 20:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


Poor Classic D:


I don't get all this hate on Classic? He is one of the most solid protosses in korea and he just gets shit all over all the time
JamesT
Profile Blog Joined October 2014
United States681 Posts
March 22 2015 11:37 GMT
#2291
On March 22 2015 20:33 REyeM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:30 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:25 REyeM wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw


Not in sc2. PartinG is a Nestea Award recipient and probably the 3rd best Protoss of all-time. He's been overdue for a final appearance if anything.


For someone like me who started watching sc2 in late 2013, he is

Lets just say then that Parting is the 2012 world champion.
How are you doing today?
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 22 2015 11:40 GMT
#2292
Hell yeah Life won it
Life, Maru and Zest all won a tournament lately, couldn't be much better for me tbh^^
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
HellHound
Profile Joined September 2014
Bulgaria5962 Posts
March 22 2015 11:40 GMT
#2293
On March 22 2015 20:25 REyeM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw

What demented logic do you need to use to deem that someone in code s since 2012 is random?
Classic GosoO |sOs| Everyone has to give in, let Life win | Zest Is The Best | Roach Cultist | I recognize the might and wisdom of my Otherworldly overlord | Air vs Air 200/200 SC2 is best SC2 | PRIME has been robbed | Fuck prime go ST | ROACH ROACH ROACH
REyeM
Profile Joined August 2014
2674 Posts
March 22 2015 11:43 GMT
#2294
On March 22 2015 20:40 HellHound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:25 REyeM wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw

What demented logic do you need to use to deem that someone in code s since 2012 is random?


My point was not to call him random rather than to say that it was more surprising to see PartinG in the finals than Dear, Zest and maybe even Classic.
S4 Arrows, never forget. RIP Woongjin Stars.
HellHound
Profile Joined September 2014
Bulgaria5962 Posts
March 22 2015 11:46 GMT
#2295
On March 22 2015 20:43 REyeM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:40 HellHound wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:25 REyeM wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw

What demented logic do you need to use to deem that someone in code s since 2012 is random?


My point was not to call him random rather than to say that it was more surprising to see PartinG in the finals than Dear, Zest and maybe even Classic.

I don't think we see enough of any of them at the moment to be able to rank them well :D
I'd like Classic to take a second GSL tho
Classic GosoO |sOs| Everyone has to give in, let Life win | Zest Is The Best | Roach Cultist | I recognize the might and wisdom of my Otherworldly overlord | Air vs Air 200/200 SC2 is best SC2 | PRIME has been robbed | Fuck prime go ST | ROACH ROACH ROACH
REyeM
Profile Joined August 2014
2674 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-22 11:51:05
March 22 2015 11:49 GMT
#2296
On March 22 2015 20:46 HellHound wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:43 REyeM wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:40 HellHound wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:25 REyeM wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


PartinG is more random than Zest and/or Dear. He just has more fans due the fact that most of audience didn't follow bw

What demented logic do you need to use to deem that someone in code s since 2012 is random?


My point was not to call him random rather than to say that it was more surprising to see PartinG in the finals than Dear, Zest and maybe even Classic.

I don't think we see enough of any of them at the moment to be able to rank them well :D
I'd like Classic to take a second GSL tho


Well, they were all really on top of their game during their championship runs.

Especially in Dear and Zest case, Zest even had an amazing following year with even more titles. (of which one of them happened like two weaks ago)
S4 Arrows, never forget. RIP Woongjin Stars.
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-22 11:55:24
March 22 2015 11:49 GMT
#2297
On March 22 2015 20:36 KingAlphard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2015 20:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On March 22 2015 20:03 Liman wrote:
Finally we see some proper players in finals,not some random Protosses.


Poor Classic D:


I don't get all this hate on Classic? He is one of the most solid protosses in korea and he just gets shit all over all the time


He won one of the worst code S seasons in a rather dull final then proceeded to not do much thereafter.

Additionally, Classic was third in a consecutive streak of Protoss champs in a time where people were fed up with watching the race win.

Personally, he just never blew me away. Good player, but never struck me as a champion. Unlike PartinG and herO with their godly micro, Rain with his solid defensive play, Zest who seemed to be an excellent reactionary player with godly macro, or sOs who was just plain fucking weird. Classic was kinda just there as a guy who impressively adapted quickly from race switching.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24239 Posts
March 22 2015 11:59 GMT
#2298
I'm so happy PartinG lost and Life won. PartinG is a cool guy but he's quite everything I hate about my race, though with pristine micro.

Next Code S finals MMA vs DRG ?
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
March 22 2015 12:09 GMT
#2299
On March 22 2015 20:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:
I'm so happy PartinG lost and Life won. PartinG is a cool guy but he's quite everything I hate about my race, though with pristine micro.

Next Code S finals MMA vs DRG ?

That will never ever happen again (final between the two)
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
sibs
Profile Joined July 2012
635 Posts
March 22 2015 12:15 GMT
#2300
On March 22 2015 18:19 stuchiu wrote:

Adversity comes down to the playing field, teh meta and the matchups they faced at critical junctures.
This is too broad a topic but basically Mvp fought bl/infestor with a broken back and beat Protoss during the second Protoss revolution of the meta against 3 of the top 5 best Protoss players. He also beat Terrans during the reign of GomTvT.

Life played in BL/infestor but he never was able to dominate it at the end cause of his ZvZ unlike Mvp during the TvT era. He won MLG under WM and Hellbats, fell off for an year and made a comeback at the end of 2014 where I do think the meta was basically even for all races.

In terms of meta they played in Mvp had it worse.

Playing Field: Life wins this as the most current era usually means its header. Though its not always the case in every game (like the current iteration of LoL and the breakup of their best teams).



lol, really MVP playing during WoL to early HOTS had a tougher "meta" than Life during WoL to hots?

Wasn't GSL Terran dominated for every single season except the last few with BL+Infestor, then HOTS comes, and it's all about terran again, this was the period MVP played, the period Terran got nerfed time and time again, and the race continued to shine.


You can make an argument either way right now, maybe you value GSL's more, maybe you value strength of competiton more etc.... but at least make good arguments, not try to paint like MVP was fighting against the odds, how many of MVP finals were against other Terran's rofl? Like 80% of them?
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