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What exactly are we talking about?
I've been a part of many Federer - Nadal discussions, and so many people there, like here now, won't listen to any reason!
Your Mvp dominance is FAR exaggerated, he didn't even dominate a year like people here are suggesting and calling Life's domination of 6 months (first one, end of 2012) as short spanned. Mvp's lasted around that time too. These two are almost equally grounded, both got a Blizzcon, one has 3 GSLs, the other has 4 but with less impressive foreign tournament results.
Oh and by the way, I cannot believe someone earlier in the thread would call Mvp more clutch than Life. Just watch his finals versus Maru in Taipei, or Iron Squid finals vs DRG. Life is the definition of clutch. But I do stand by my claim that is not how you rank your players, you rank them by their achievements since everything else is subjective to your own race or preference.
Bottom line is, right about now, they're equal.
But there is bright future in front of one and the other one is retired.
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Did I miss something great?
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On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered.
Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee.
And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech.
he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance
he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had
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Australia18228 Posts
On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on...
Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will".
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On March 22 2015 19:15 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee. And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech. he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had
No "aura of invincibility" has ever looked as staggering as a person who failed to defeat someone else, you're completely right.
On March 22 2015 19:16 Inflicted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on... Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will".
Which is very different to "innovation is just going to win" until he didn't.
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On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was.
I agree with you to some extent. Can't say with confidence that I'd put Bogus firmly over Mvp but I definitely think he's comparable with regards to peak performances. Bogus was strong (and still is) in like every format imaginable: GSL, team league, qualifiers, online tournaments, and foreign events. His only weaknesses appeared to be cheese and other Terrans.
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On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was.
Probably. His peak was the best relatively speaking and met the minimum for everyone to consider him to be the consensus best player... But he failed to get a lot of wins... Failing in the gsl also really hurt considering how short his period was.
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On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on...
Mvp destroyed Nestea most of the time. The fact that MMA beated him was a surprise for many people. He had tons firs places finish in 2011. Innovation didn't even come close. He didnt' win that much major tournament at all. Innovation failed to live up to the hype people were building up for him.
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On March 22 2015 19:20 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on... Mvp destroyed Nestea most of the time. The fact that MMA beated him was a surprise for many people. He had tons firs places finish in 2011. Innovation didn't even come close. He didnt' win that much major tournament at all.
How is that relevant in the slightest? Theres a real fucking between "greatest player" and "most dominant player". And mvp is just not the most dominant player in sc2 history.
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On March 22 2015 19:17 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:15 ETisME wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee. And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech. he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had No "aura of invincibility" has ever looked as staggering as a person who failed to defeat someone else, you're completely right. Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:16 Inflicted wrote:On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on... Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will". Which is very different to "innovation is just going to win" until he didn't.
he was good enough to get into GSL finals against the top performer of the "OP" race at the time and he was still top performing and almost took out life. He was the most consistent top player ignoring the race balance.
Unlike innovation who only looked strong during the peak of terran
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Most dominant player was Fruitdealer your scrubs.
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Zest wins IEM
imba/bracket luck/coinflipvp
Life wins GSL
Not as good as Mvp
Sweet bitterness, keep it coming! <3
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On March 22 2015 19:23 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:20 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on... Mvp destroyed Nestea most of the time. The fact that MMA beated him was a surprise for many people. He had tons firs places finish in 2011. Innovation didn't even come close. He didnt' win that much major tournament at all. How is that relevant in the slightest? Theres a real fucking between "greatest player" and "most dominant player". And mvp is just not the most dominant player in sc2 history.
Both can not be seperated entirely... The greatest player should be dominant in certain period of time.
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On March 22 2015 19:24 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:17 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:15 ETisME wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee. And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech. he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had No "aura of invincibility" has ever looked as staggering as a person who failed to defeat someone else, you're completely right. On March 22 2015 19:16 Inflicted wrote:On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on... Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will". Which is very different to "innovation is just going to win" until he didn't. he was good enough to get into GSL finals against the top performer of the "OP" race at the time and he was still top performing and almost took out life. He was the most consistent top player ignoring the race balance. Unlike innovation who only looked strong during the peak of terran
Which is still irrelevant to the discussion lol. I'm not debating who was the most successful.
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On March 22 2015 19:27 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:24 ETisME wrote:On March 22 2015 19:17 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:15 ETisME wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee. And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech. he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had No "aura of invincibility" has ever looked as staggering as a person who failed to defeat someone else, you're completely right. On March 22 2015 19:16 Inflicted wrote:On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on... Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will". Which is very different to "innovation is just going to win" until he didn't. he was good enough to get into GSL finals against the top performer of the "OP" race at the time and he was still top performing and almost took out life. He was the most consistent top player ignoring the race balance. Unlike innovation who only looked strong during the peak of terran Which is still irrelevant to the discussion lol. I'm not debating who was the most successful.
Maybe it's only you who view Innovation as more dominant than Mvp in his peak then lol. I can't imagine such a thing.
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On March 22 2015 19:27 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 19:24 ETisME wrote:On March 22 2015 19:17 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:15 ETisME wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. Plus Mvp more or less perfected the TvZ hellion banshee. And he was one of the few who could play bio equally as well as mech. he almost took out life when zerg was overwhelming the balance he took out squirtle who looked like the best protoss we ever had No "aura of invincibility" has ever looked as staggering as a person who failed to defeat someone else, you're completely right. On March 22 2015 19:16 Inflicted wrote:On March 22 2015 19:12 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 19:09 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 19:07 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short. I'm not talking about successful as such as I am "aura of invincibility", does anyone seriously think that mvp's perdiod of dominance was as intimidating as innovations? Like the guy was a monster. "Stale build orders", hellbats etc do nothing to disprove that in his period of dominance, for however long it was, was probably the hardest hitting period there was. Mvp's aura far exceed Innovation's imo. Mvp at his peak was viewed as Invincible and expected win any tournaments he entered. What? Was this during the same period of time he was competing with nestea, or the time that mkp and drg were winning the non gsl events, or when he got beaten by mma in gsl? It's hard to argue he was the greatest sc2 player so far, but come on... Mvp beat NesTea in most of their encounters. It was more "If Mvp doesn't win, then NesTea will". Which is very different to "innovation is just going to win" until he didn't. he was good enough to get into GSL finals against the top performer of the "OP" race at the time and he was still top performing and almost took out life. He was the most consistent top player ignoring the race balance. Unlike innovation who only looked strong during the peak of terran Which is still irrelevant to the discussion lol. I'm not debating who was the most successful.
in which way was innovation even close to mvp in terms of "invincible"?
I supposed in a very short period of time he did look that way, but when he falls off that quickly, no one really consider him so.
Lots of players had these moments when they looked pretty invincible, squirtle and zest for example.
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I missed these finals unfortunately, Sunday noon's meal too tasty.
Life won eh. Grats. Parting showed some good stuff if it went 4-3. good result, satisfying result
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Russian Federation1016 Posts
imho, it was the best finals of major tournament in a while. Definitely better than the yesterday's one. All hail Life! And Parting too. It's really great that both of them are StarTale former players.
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EPT
