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On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless.
mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.
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On March 22 2015 18:12 Nebuchad wrote:
There's something kind of sad about people fighting over which player is the best and why. Tournaments are snapshots in time. Did Mvp win some of his GSL at an easier time? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He still won them. Could Mvp have won more tournaments if he didn't have health issues? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He does. People don't argue over whether Kasparov would beat Carlsen today if he hadn't gone into politics. They don't because there's obviously no answer, and the question isn't even interesting.
Agreed on all the points you mentioned. But it's just a fact that it's easier to win 3 titles if there are 7+ tournaments a year, compared an era with 3 GSL seasons a year. And that's NOT irrelevant.
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On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.
I've been through all their reigns of terror, and only Life comes close. Innovation was ridiculous for a bit, and then hellbats got nerfed and he hasn't been that way ever since. Even when he was good, innovation was just a mechanical beast. Every build was the same. He was not inspiring at all. There is no history rewriting on my part at all.
Btw, does anyone know what Mvp is doing atm? I haven't heard from him in ages, I'm assuming he's retired?
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
On March 22 2015 18:33 Dreamer.T wrote:
Does anyone know what Mvp is doing atm? I haven't heard from him in ages, I'm assuming he's retired?
General of Korea's airforce. I heard they'll soon show their prototype of the battlecruiser
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Not a word. The last thing I heard about Mvp was some random tweet from Wolf saying he'd appear where no one thought he'd be.
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United States23455 Posts
On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.
Wtf nope? This is just flat out not true. I'm surprised at you sir
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On March 22 2015 18:33 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:12 Nebuchad wrote:
There's something kind of sad about people fighting over which player is the best and why. Tournaments are snapshots in time. Did Mvp win some of his GSL at an easier time? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He still won them. Could Mvp have won more tournaments if he didn't have health issues? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He does. People don't argue over whether Kasparov would beat Carlsen today if he hadn't gone into politics. They don't because there's obviously no answer, and the question isn't even interesting. Agreed on all the points you mentioned. But it's just a fact that it's easier to win 3 titles if there are 7+ tournaments a year, compared an era with 3 GSL seasons a year. And that's NOT irrelevant.
I basically wrote an entire article talking about how the 9+ Korean lans this year and the mass changes in HotS means this is the last year for a player to surpass Mvp as the GOAT in WoL/HotS
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/473230-korea-2015-battle-for-the-empty-throne
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Maybe he'll resurface again during Lotv with cybernetic wrists.
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Oh. This wasn't at the regular GSL broadcast time.
At least Life won, go life.
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I hope Zest wins the remaining NSSLs and GSL he can win, as well as BlizzCon and some foreign tournaments, so that that discussion could stop once and for all.
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Australia18228 Posts
On March 22 2015 18:36 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:33 Swisslink wrote:On March 22 2015 18:12 Nebuchad wrote:
There's something kind of sad about people fighting over which player is the best and why. Tournaments are snapshots in time. Did Mvp win some of his GSL at an easier time? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He still won them. Could Mvp have won more tournaments if he didn't have health issues? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He does. People don't argue over whether Kasparov would beat Carlsen today if he hadn't gone into politics. They don't because there's obviously no answer, and the question isn't even interesting. Agreed on all the points you mentioned. But it's just a fact that it's easier to win 3 titles if there are 7+ tournaments a year, compared an era with 3 GSL seasons a year. And that's NOT irrelevant. I basically wrote an entire article talking about how the 9+ Korean lans this year and the mass changes in HotS means this is the last year for a player to surpass Mvp as the GOAT in WoL/HotS http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/473230-korea-2015-battle-for-the-empty-throne
Too bad WECG ain't happening
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On March 22 2015 18:38 Inflicted wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:36 stuchiu wrote:On March 22 2015 18:33 Swisslink wrote:On March 22 2015 18:12 Nebuchad wrote:
There's something kind of sad about people fighting over which player is the best and why. Tournaments are snapshots in time. Did Mvp win some of his GSL at an easier time? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He still won them. Could Mvp have won more tournaments if he didn't have health issues? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He does. People don't argue over whether Kasparov would beat Carlsen today if he hadn't gone into politics. They don't because there's obviously no answer, and the question isn't even interesting. Agreed on all the points you mentioned. But it's just a fact that it's easier to win 3 titles if there are 7+ tournaments a year, compared an era with 3 GSL seasons a year. And that's NOT irrelevant. I basically wrote an entire article talking about how the 9+ Korean lans this year and the mass changes in HotS means this is the last year for a player to surpass Mvp as the GOAT in WoL/HotS http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/473230-korea-2015-battle-for-the-empty-throne Too bad WECG ain't happening
Still have that promised IEM I think.
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On March 22 2015 18:33 Dreamer.T wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. I've been through all their reigns of terror, and only Life comes close. Innovation was ridiculous for a bit, and then hellbats got nerfed and he hasn't been that way ever since. Even when he was good, innovation was just a mechanical beast. Every build was the same. He was not inspiring at all. There is no history rewriting on my part at all. Btw, does anyone know what Mvp is doing atm? I haven't heard from him in ages, I'm assuming he's retired?
Bogus really had the best opportunity imo, when he was destroying people with crazy winrates and just dominating in PL and individual leagues. Everyone knew he was the scariest player, then hellbats got nerfed and his team situation got worse, eventually disbanding and going to a foreign team. The rest is history. It was just too short though...not long enough to rack up a ton of wins.
I'm curious when the next breakout will be... Zest was the last major breakout that had the opportunity.
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On March 22 2015 18:37 Abradix1 wrote:
Oh. This wasn't at the regular GSL broadcast time.
At least Life won, go life.
Regular broadcast time would be now, that'd be a bit late for a sunday.
On March 22 2015 18:38 OtherWorld wrote:
I hope Zest wins the remaining NSSLs and GSL he can win, as well as BlizzCon and some foreign tournaments, so that that discussion could stop once and for all.
But didn't you hear it from SackOfWetMice? Zest is a patchtoss! <.<
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On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have.
Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short.
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Well, aside from the comparisons to Mvp, Life is 10/11 premiers with about 30 days left to tie Taeja's record in 2.5 years (assuming Taeja continues to coast through 2015).
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On March 22 2015 18:31 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:26 Nebuchad wrote:On March 22 2015 18:19 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2015 18:17 Nebuchad wrote:On March 22 2015 18:15 Darkhorse wrote:On March 22 2015 18:12 Nebuchad wrote:
There's something kind of sad about people fighting over which player is the best and why. Tournaments are snapshots in time. Did Mvp win some of his GSL at an easier time? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He still won them. Could Mvp have won more tournaments if he didn't have health issues? Yeah, and that's irrelevant. He does. People don't argue over whether Kasparov would beat Carlsen today if he hadn't gone into politics. They don't because there's obviously no answer, and the question isn't even interesting. Your mom... Doesn't... Have an answer... And isn't interesting! Shut up it's late. Also arguing is fun. What's the point of arguing if there is one correct answer? ...Being right? Well obviously we all THINK we're right that's why we're arguing our points. Of course this argument is over an opinion, so it's basically everyone trying to convince eachother that their opinion is better/backed up by more facts! That's not what a fact is though. Comparison of two players playing a different race at a different time under different circumstances is pretty much imagination. Which is fine, btw. I love imagination. I just don't like to have debates over it. ... You did read what I wrote right? The part where I said we were arguing about an opinion not a fact? I'm saying we're trying to use facts (ie GSL trophies/length of careers) to support our opinions. Also YOU don't have to debate! That's the beauty of it! Participation is optional! Huzzah!
That is true. Have a nice day.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51706 Posts
On March 22 2015 18:41 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 22 2015 18:32 bo1b wrote:On March 22 2015 18:22 Dreamer.T wrote:
Like others have said, during MVP's god year, he basically won everything, and no player comes close to having that aura of invincibility. When he joined a tournament, odds are you bet your money on him. I remember when him and Nestea were still shoulder to shoulder with regards to gsl wins, and people were wondering how their rivalry would end up. Well, it became obvious when MVP trounced over him several times. He wasn't this cookie cutter terran with superb mechanics (though in his prime before his wrist issues, he was a mechanical beast) like Innovation. He did builds that made your jaw drop. Like, it would be unorthodox, but a it unraveled throughout the game, you would slowly see the genius behind it. Everything just went according to plan, as if MVP just predicts the future and his opponent plays into his plans perfectly.
His character was also interesting. I remember he wasn't the player who was a huge turn on. He wasn't flashy, in fact most people found him boring and dull. But he gave 0 fucks. Who cares if his mouth is wide open while playing? He just destroys his opponents regardless. mvp's "aura of invincibility' was far lesser then innovations, lifes etc. People rewrite history far too much with him in order to fit some narrative they absolutely must have. Innovation didn't even come close. His reign was very short.
yeah, bogus's reign was more like a drizzle.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On March 22 2015 18:41 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
Well, aside from the comparisons to Mvp, Life is 10/11 premiers with about 30 days left to tie Taeja's record in 2.5 years (assuming Taeja continues to coast through 2015).
STILL WAITING ON THE NEXT DEFENSIVE MACRO TERRAN WHO WINS ON DECISION MAKING WORLD
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EPT
