For the most part I was unimpressed with Maru's play.
Game 1 I think he should have gone for ghosts. He decided to go marauder heavy and just split vs the storms, which worked out well except he had no answer for the zealots. I saw he made maybe two hellbats and two mines the entire game. I'm not sure why he didn't keep up with that production - I think, if he had more hellbats (or any ghosts....), he would have easily taken this game.
Game 2 he scouted the twilight tech but did not double produce marauders? Why did the 3rd barracks not get any addons? And then his upgrades, and his 3rd, were very delayed.
I know a lot of people want to say, "oh, Maru lost, therefore imbalance!" but really he played a very sloppy series. Classic played solid and deserved to win.
On February 21 2014 18:53 vthree wrote: Serious, so many protoss are afraid of the blink cool down nerf. But nothing in that game made the blink cool down necessary...
What? everytime he was inside Marus base he was waiting for the cooldown to finish and lost units in the progress. When he was chasing the units in the middle, he was waiting for it to finish so he could blink forward first, and backwards later on. There were so many situations in that game where +5seconds on blink might have been desastrous for classic!
Yeah imagine an all in build actually being risky and committal for the attacker. That would be so wrong....
didn't say that it is necessary for Protoss to play like that, so you are arguing against a strawman. I merely said that it would have a big impact on this game, since vthree said it wouldn't...
Well the whole point of the proposed balance changes is to make an impact on blink play.
yeah. Which again goes against nothing I was saying. Just pointing out that unlike vthree said it would have had a huge impact on how the game played out.
On February 21 2014 18:50 Die4Ever wrote: [quote] hallu colossus soaks more damage anyways
yeah but costs more energy -> less FF
Isn't halluc 100 energy for all units?
oh i thought it cost more for bigger units
No, it is the same for all units. But, IIRC, you get two zealots for the price of one Hallucination. All the rest are single units.
you even get 4 probes!
Thanks, I've never considered hallucinating probes!
I've seen a few people do them as a manner mule type play
I do this when I want to sneak a probe out onto the map and 4-6 slow lings are outside my door.
I won a game vs a T with them to pretend I still had an economy so he would give up floating for the draw.
I can tell that T hadn't played 5k games worth of TvP. Even if they have an economy, a true T would just alt tab and force the Protoss into making a stargate and Void Ray just to spite him.
On February 21 2014 18:53 Darkhorse wrote: Shit but Classic is really good. Hopefully Maru does well in TvZ
Hahahahahaa
...Explain yourself if you're just going to do that please. Or just don't do it.
TvZ is by far Maru's worst MU and he's lost a lot in it recently. Granted, those games were mostly against Soulkey...
Yeah but did I say, "I bet Maru does well in TvZ!" nope I said I hope he will. I also hope I win the lottery which will never happen. So yeah nice response.
On February 21 2014 18:53 teamamerica wrote: I wonder how Classic vs Polt would do. Imo Polt goes into ghosts a bit quicker the Maru but he also tries to play a really drop heavy aggressive style, and Classic just handles this shit.
I don't know any Protoss outside Rain maybe who would have lost so little to Polts aggro from game 1. More power to Classic I guess. Glad to see such high level Protoss play.
Polt already beat Classic at IEM
In a weekend tournament with no preparation and classic being outside of Korea for the first time in his life. I think what he meant was have classic and polt face off in a decent environment.
Classic was already in Cologne for a few days. How is the ESL studio not a decent enviroment.
I didn't say jetlagged I said it was his first time outside of Korea and Rain even talked about having to comfort Classic due to this. First and for most it doesn't even have booths, but my main point is rather that beating someone by 1 map with little to no preparation for that match is very different to having 1+ week to prepare for 1 opponent, so just because polt beat classic at IEM doesn't necessarily mean he would have performed better than Maru if he had played Classic today.
So you're just wildly speculating. Firstly who said that the korean style of playing games after weeks of preparation is the only valid style to measure skill? Also as far as I remember Polt was pretty good at preparing too. And of course classic has the potential to beat Polt in a BoX.. All top korean pros are so close in skill, that they can beat each other in a Bo3 or 5.
On February 21 2014 18:53 Darkhorse wrote: Shit but Classic is really good. Hopefully Maru does well in TvZ
Hahahahahaa
...Explain yourself if you're just going to do that please. Or just don't do it.
TvZ is by far Maru's worst MU and he's lost a lot in it recently. Granted, those games were mostly against Soulkey...
definitely his worst mu and he made some pretty bad mistakes in the race wars but like you said it was vs soulkey a lot recently and soulkey is to maru as mvp is to marineking pretty much
On February 21 2014 19:01 Vindicare605 wrote: I missed the first set. Anyone got a quick sum up of what happened? Macro games? Blink All ins? Oracles?
First game was amazing (Dear vs Maru-esque situation, with a very cool comp by Classic) and second game was blink all-in into whine. Protoss won, which means everything is wrong with us (apparently morphing archons is OP now). Players were good, LR was average-bad (I expected it to be way worse honestly
On February 21 2014 18:53 Darkhorse wrote: Shit but Classic is really good. Hopefully Maru does well in TvZ
Hahahahahaa
...Explain yourself if you're just going to do that please. Or just don't do it.
TvZ is by far Maru's worst MU and he's lost a lot in it recently. Granted, those games were mostly against Soulkey...
Yeah but did I say, "I bet Maru does well in TvZ!" nope I said I hope he will. I also hope I win the lottery which will never happen. So yeah nice response.
On February 21 2014 18:53 Darkhorse wrote: Shit but Classic is really good. Hopefully Maru does well in TvZ
Hahahahahaa
...Explain yourself if you're just going to do that please. Or just don't do it.
TvZ is by far Maru's worst MU and he's lost a lot in it recently. Granted, those games were mostly against Soulkey...
Yeah it is is worst but most of those loses come from SK so I think he should be fine here. Maybe his plan for this group was even to focus on TvZ the most and advance over zergs. At least I hope that is what he planned.
Like they say on the Terran Help Me Thread, every won fight is the purchased ability to have your next. Just don't lose a fight, that bio (and later bio ghost) can't be rebuilt that quick when your opponent is on 3base and 12 gates.
Maru micro'd his little heart out and really showed us a fighting Terran. He died like a man. No regrets. I love you Maru.
On February 21 2014 19:02 gTank wrote: I wonder why it is called Blink all in if there is basically no risk doing it, not doing that much damage and transitioning into a strong midgame? Isn't the definition of all in to do something with high risk, high reward option?
++
blink all-in now = you blink all your stalkers into your opponents base
On February 21 2014 19:01 Vindicare605 wrote: I missed the first set. Anyone got a quick sum up of what happened? Macro games? Blink All ins? Oracles?
First game was amazing (Dear vs Maru-esque situation, with a very cool comp by Classic) and second game was blink all-in into whine. Protoss won, which means everything is wrong with us (apparently morphing archons is OP now). Players were good, LR was average-bad (I expected it to be way worse honestly
On February 21 2014 18:53 vthree wrote: Serious, so many protoss are afraid of the blink cool down nerf. But nothing in that game made the blink cool down necessary...
What? everytime he was inside Marus base he was waiting for the cooldown to finish and lost units in the progress. When he was chasing the units in the middle, he was waiting for it to finish so he could blink forward first, and backwards later on. There were so many situations in that game where +5seconds on blink might have been desastrous for classic!
Yeah imagine an all in build actually being risky and committal for the attacker. That would be so wrong....
Come on now, be serious. Blink Stalker all-in wouldn't exist with Blink having 15 seconds CD. He would lost all of his Stalkers when he blinked it, and that would be game. I am not defending all-ins, I also hate them, but nerfing blink would nerf Stalkers a lot, and they are only good because of it. They are pretty bad units for their cost, and mobility is their only strength.
It would make it an all-in again. Now it's just a will-I-win-now-or-later push very often.
On February 21 2014 19:01 Vindicare605 wrote: I missed the first set. Anyone got a quick sum up of what happened? Macro games? Blink All ins? Oracles?
G1: Macro game. Maru tried his trademark aggressive style but did little damage. Classic took his third considerably faster than Maru whose third was quite delayed and proceeded to press his econ and upgrade advantage. He settled into a strong Chargelot/Sentry/HT/Archon/Immortal composition that eventually rolled Maru's Marauder heavy army.
G2: Classic went for a blink attack but did not commit. Teched to Templar. Maru counter-attacked but over-extended and lost a chunk of his army. Classic got the better of multiple engagements with good storms and secured a third. Maru tapped out.
Classic played really well in that series and outplayed Maru. He looked to have Maru's number.
On February 21 2014 19:02 gTank wrote: I wonder why it is called Blink all in if there is basically no risk doing it, not doing that much damage and transitioning into a strong midgame? Isn't the definition of all in to do something with high risk, high reward option?
Protoss 'all ins' are kind of like that, I refer to the 25 minute immortal all in - which granted, had mistakes but still.
EPT
but Classic is really good. Hopefully Maru does well in TvZ
