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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:20 Neemi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:19 Zealously wrote:On November 10 2013 11:18 GWdeathscythe wrote:On November 10 2013 11:13 PhoenixVoid wrote:On November 10 2013 11:11 Godwrath wrote:On November 10 2013 11:09 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 11:07 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:06 stuchiu wrote:
Myungsik can't be Phoenix because he's only shown up in one qualifier. And I'm not including upgrades for now. Just buildings and units. Sora? Sora did sick Phoenix play! Some spots I'll leave empty until some Toss really takes a spot. Good so far, now we need a Terran and Zerg pantheon. The terran is a bit obvious tho. Drone: ? Zergling: Life Overlord: ? Roach: Symbol or HyuN Hydra: ? Mutalisk: Jaedong or DRG Baneling: Leenock Infestor: Stephano or someone else Corruptor: Soulkey? Swarm Host: Stephano? Ultralisk: ? Brood Lord: ? Viper: ? dude.. Jaedong must be zergling and mutalisk. Was "JDlings" a thing in Brood War? No. Is Lifelings a thing in SC2? INDEED IT IS It was actually, but we're talking SC2 here so I'm giving it to life anyway
I'd give lings to Kwanro in that case
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Poor Dear, just like that the hype surrounding him and his perpetual royal road are crushed
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On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa throzain (not just name but for getting them nerfed)
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
ftfy
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On November 10 2013 11:20 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:18 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:17 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 11:13 PhoenixVoid wrote:On November 10 2013 11:11 Godwrath wrote:On November 10 2013 11:09 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 11:07 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:06 stuchiu wrote:
Myungsik can't be Phoenix because he's only shown up in one qualifier. And I'm not including upgrades for now. Just buildings and units. Sora? Sora did sick Phoenix play! Some spots I'll leave empty until some Toss really takes a spot. Good so far, now we need a Terran and Zerg pantheon. The terran is a bit obvious tho. Drone: ? Zergling: Life Overlord: ? Roach: Symbol or HyuN Hydra: ? Mutalisk: Jaedong or DRG Baneling: Leenock Infestor: Stephano or someone else Corruptor: Soulkey? Swarm Host: Stephano? Ultralisk: ? Brood Lord: ? Viper: ? Drone: Ret Overlord: Stephano Roach: Hyun Hydra: ?????? Mutalisk: DRG Baneling: Nestea Infestor: Freaky Corruptor: ???????? SH: ???????? Ultralisk: Suppy Brood Lord: Slivko Viper: ??????? Nydus: Symbol Why is Stephano the Overlord? He could be SH. He did nothing else in HotS or Roach if WoL. Stephano made the make 12 Overlords before the roach max popular since wayyyyy back. Bitterdam used to call it the Stephano Overlords. And it kind of references the fact that he changed the way Z was played. I also accept Roach or maybe the Infestor/Spine Crawler.
Don't forget he'd often get supplyblocked and react to this by building 8-9 overlords all of a sudden.
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On November 10 2013 11:16 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:09 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 11:07 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 11:01 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:59 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:
[quote]
I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle.I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa. Are you fucking SERIOUS? You called him a faceless korean that literally 0 people care about for about 30 pages of this thread. Tell me, how did Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa all gain their hype? faeries? wizards? pixie dust? He IS faceless compared to those stars! How can you even compare!? I never once called him "all in protoss scum" (taken from another LR thread), or once balanced whined. To imply that, coming into the tourney, he controlled more than 1% of the total fanbase is absurd. Who cares? He's a great player, he has an interesting style, and this win will grant him a lot of exposure and fans. You seem to have this bizarre idea that fan favorites winning every tournament is somehow going to make SC2 into mainstream entertainment. There is no substance to such a claim. You know what will dictate SC2's popularity? The gameplay. That is it. As long as people are playing and watching the game, storylines will create themselves. How do you know that gameplay is the deciding factor? Because it always is. Look at any sport star. Messi. C.Ronaldo. Djokovic. Federer. Nadal. Malkin. Crosby. Shaquille O'Neal. Michael Jordan. Tiger Woods. Anyone from baseball or american football (sorry, don't know anything about those). TBLS in BW. Madlife and Faker in LoL. Literally ANY sports star. You know what they have in common? They are fucking BETTER in what they do, than everyone else. That's why they are superstars. That's why they have legions of (sometimes almost) fanatic fans. Not because of what they look like, not because of how they behave. The only 'sport' (which is actually a theater) that doesn't work that way is wrestling. And I hope nobody wants SC2 to become like wrestling...
You know what the difference between your examples and Starcraft is? These sports provide diversity, imagine a world cup where 31 teams from Brazil would be competing. Also you dont have the same kind of stars in SC2 because the game is too volatile.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:20 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
scv - bitbybit marauder - polt ghost - byun or taeja mule - bomber hellion - forgg
Banshee - TheBest or Maru.
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On November 10 2013 11:18 GWdeathscythe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:13 PhoenixVoid wrote:On November 10 2013 11:11 Godwrath wrote:On November 10 2013 11:09 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 11:07 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:06 stuchiu wrote:
Myungsik can't be Phoenix because he's only shown up in one qualifier. And I'm not including upgrades for now. Just buildings and units. Sora? Sora did sick Phoenix play! Some spots I'll leave empty until some Toss really takes a spot. Good so far, now we need a Terran and Zerg pantheon. The terran is a bit obvious tho. Drone: ? Zergling: Life Overlord: ? Roach: Symbol or HyuN Hydra: ? Mutalisk: Jaedong or DRG Baneling: Leenock Infestor: Stephano or someone else Corruptor: Soulkey? Swarm Host: Stephano? Ultralisk: ? Brood Lord: ? Viper: ? dude.. Jaedong must be zergling and mutalisk.
You forget how good Lifes zerglings are. I remember at MLG Dallas he dismantled a massive blue flame hellion all in with nothing but zerglings. No one else could possibly do that but life.
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On November 10 2013 11:19 moon_fall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:15 Black Gun wrote:To settle some discussions about who is the better player, SoS or Jeadong, I have created a little poll: Poll: Who would you favor in a bo31?SoS (18) 56% Jaedong (14) 44% 32 total votes Your vote: Who would you favor in a bo31? (Vote): SoS
(Vote): Jaedong
I voted Jaedong but to be honest, this poll is like asking "who has more fans."
Why don't we just ask the casters, no? They can stay salty for all I care.
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On November 10 2013 11:20 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
scv - bitbybit marauder - polt ghost - byun or taeja mule - bomber hellion - forgg
ForGG should be the friendlyfire widowmine too
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On November 10 2013 11:20 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
scv - bitbybit marauder - polt ghost - byun or taeja mule - bomber hellion - forgg
qxc is the widow mine due to this game on stephano stream.
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Ok ok wait.
Poll: Who is the Mutalisk?Jaedong (17) 74% DRG (6) 26% 23 total votes Your vote: Who is the Mutalisk? (Vote): Jaedong
(Vote): DRG
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United States97276 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:21 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:20 Shellshock wrote:On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
scv - bitbybit marauder - polt ghost - byun or taeja mule - bomber hellion - forgg Banshee - TheBest or Maru.
TheBest can have Banshee
Maru can have reaper for his 8-8-8s unless you feel like Morrow deserves it more for 5 rax
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:21 Musicus wrote:Ok ok wait. Poll: Who is the Mutalisk?Jaedong (17) 74% DRG (6) 26% 23 total votes Your vote: Who is the Mutalisk? (Vote): Jaedong
(Vote): DRG
Democracy at work.
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You cant look at each game in this bo7 as an isolated game. The first map was JD losing a game he definitely should have won and that had a huge impact on the rest of series. And when game two played out like it did, and with the kong story in mind, I think JD was tilted
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:22 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:21 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 11:20 Shellshock wrote:On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
scv - bitbybit marauder - polt ghost - byun or taeja mule - bomber hellion - forgg Banshee - TheBest or Maru. TheBest can have Banshee Maru can have reaper for his 8-8-8s unless you feel like Morrow deserves it more for 5 rax
OH GOD DAMN I FORGOT.
6 Pool is ActionJesuz
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On November 10 2013 11:20 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
scv - bitbybit marauder - polt ghost - byun or taeja mule - bomber hellion - forgg
banshee - thebest
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On November 10 2013 11:18 Sgany wrote:
Terran units
Marines - MKP
Tanks - MVP
Thors - NaDa
Medivac - MMA
Hellbats - Innovation
Polt - Marauders
Medivac - MMA ?
Ghost - Byun
Reaper - MorroW
Siege Tank - Goody
Widow mine - Innovation
Banshee - MMA ?
Raven - MVP
Hellion - forGG
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On November 10 2013 11:19 moon_fall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:15 Black Gun wrote:To settle some discussions about who is the better player, SoS or Jeadong, I have created a little poll: Poll: Who would you favor in a bo31?SoS (18) 56% Jaedong (14) 44% 32 total votes Your vote: Who would you favor in a bo31? (Vote): SoS
(Vote): Jaedong
I voted Jaedong but to be honest, this poll is like asking "who has more fans."
i disagree. this poll is basically asking who you think is the better player in the long run.
sure, you can invent new stuff to stay ahead of the curve for a while. but it will get figured out sooner or later.
sure, you can use clever strategies and mind games to get the upper hand in a boX series like sos did today, but you cant keep on doing that forever. i dare to say that winning a bo7 almost exclusively by mindgames while being outmatched in long, standard macro games, is already stretching it to the limit.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
MVP should get battlecruiser and goody for tanks
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On November 10 2013 11:18 marcesr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:13 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 11:09 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 11:07 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 11:01 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:59 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:
[quote]
It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle.I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa. Are you fucking SERIOUS? You called him a faceless korean that literally 0 people care about for about 30 pages of this thread. Tell me, how did Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa all gain their hype? faeries? wizards? pixie dust? He IS faceless compared to those stars! How can you even compare!? I never once called him "all in protoss scum" (taken from another LR thread), or once balanced whined. To imply that, coming into the tourney, he controlled more than 1% of the total fanbase is absurd. Who cares? He's a great player, he has an interesting style, and this win will grant him a lot of exposure and fans. You seem to have this bizarre idea that fan favorites winning every tournament is somehow going to make SC2 into mainstream entertainment. There is no substance to such a claim. You know what will dictate SC2's popularity? The gameplay. That is it. As long as people are playing and watching the game, storylines will create themselves. How do you know that gameplay is the deciding factor? If the game is interesting to watch, people will watch it. If the game is interesting to play, people will play it. That's how things become popular. 1st problem is that according to this logic starcraft is not interesting to play because player numbers on bnet are terrible. 2nd problem is that the world is 10x more complicated than you are trying to present it. What you are saying is essentially "make a good product and your business will succeed" but that couldnt be further away from truth.
Maybe "fun" is a better word than "interesting". I think the people who find the game fun to play are playing it if they have the time, and the people who find the game fun to watch are watching it if they have the time.
I am but a simple man, perhaps you would deign to explain to me these complexities which are preventing Starcraft 2 from achieving a higher degree of success.
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EPT
